[Simon]

OK, it's here. As the leaked specs yesterday already revealed.

http://www.apple.com/powermac/

Interstingly, they are keeping the single 1.8GHz around as the $1499 model.

[Simon]

Single 1.8GHz, 600MHz, 256MB (4 slots), 80GB, FX5200/64MB, 8x -> $1499
Dual 2.0GHz, 1GHz, 512MB (in only four slots!), 160GB, R9600/128MB, 16xDL -> $1999
Dual 2.3GHz, 1.15GHz, 512MB (8 slots), 250GB, R9600/128MB, 16xDL -> $2499
Dual 2.7GHz, 1.35GHz, 512MB (8 slots), 250GB, R9650/256MB, 16xDL -> $2999

They're certainly all 970FX and not Antares 970MP due to the 512K L2 cache.

Interestingly enough, they're ready to ship within 1-3 days.

Overview: http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...amily=PowerMac

[Simon]

But why in the world are there no updated iMacs, iBooks, or eMacs???

[scottiB]

The 2x2.7s are still liquid cooled, I see.

[stuffedmonkey]

Looks like we will have to wait another revision for PCI Express too. I was really hoping for that.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by scottiB

The 2x2.7s are still liquid cooled, I see.

Yeah, makes sense. They're still using the same 970FX chip they used for the rev B PowerMacs. I guess we'll have to wait for the 'AntaresSP' 970GX for water cooling to disappear...

[scottiB]

So, is the ATI 9650 essentially a 9600 with the ability to drive one 30" ACD without losing a PCI slot due to its slimmer size? If so, I can see where it'd be desirable.

While I'm not in the market for a G5, currently, if I were, I'd be a little miffed that the grafix choices are either a 9600 or a honkin' nVidia 6800.

[Markovich]

Also, notice that the ATi X800 is no longer available from Apple.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Markovich

Also, notice that the ATi X800 is no longer available from Apple.

The 9600XT isn't there anymore either (at least it isn't for the duals).

[Agent69]

As I remarked in the other thread about this update, this refresh was good timing for me, so I have pulled the trigger on the dual 2.0ghz G5. It nearly doubles the performance of every single thing on my SP 1.25ghz G4 MDD and it gives me Tiger (and it also should be much quieter).

[littlegreenspud]

The single 1.8 has the option of a 9600XT but the rest have 9600's but not the option of a XT!

[discotronic]

Originally Posted by Simon

The 9600XT isn't there anymore either.

The 9600XT can still be ordered with the single 1.8 model. What is the difference between the 9600 and the 9600XT?

At least they kept that model. I would hate to see Apple discontinue the low end PowerMac.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by discotronic

The 9600XT can still be ordered with the single 1.8 model.

Fixed.

What is the difference between the 9600 and the 9600XT?

The 9600XT has DVI and ADC. The 9600 has 2 DVI. For DDL DVI, you need to get the 9650 or the 6800.

[bimmerphile]

CONF1RM3D OMG TO MANY MEGAHURTZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111one

[BZ]

So what is the ATI 9650? Should I get that or just pull the trigger on a X800?

BZ

[jamil5454]

Disappointing.

[discotronic]

Originally Posted by Simon

The 9600XT has DVI and ADC. The 9600 has 2 DVI. For DDL DVI, you need to get the 9650 or the 6800.

Thanks for the info.

[Goldfinger]

Can you connect a single link DVI monitor to that dual link port on the 9650 ?
Oh and the displays have become cheaper (in Belgium anyway).

[OtisWild]

Wow, even more pathetic than I had feared!

No more X800? That was the only video adapter besides the 6800U that was worth a damn!

Man, Apple must _really_ be hating the transition to PCIe.. If only they went with nVidia across the board, the 6x00 generation of nV cards is widely available in AGP...

[BZ]

Originally Posted by BZ

So what is the ATI 9650? Should I get that or just pull the trigger on a X800?

BZ

Anyone? What is the diff?

BZ

[Luca Rescigno]

According to Apple's page about the PowerMac's graphics options, the 9650 has an equal pixel fill rate (1.6 billion pixels/sec) to the 9600XT. Meanwhile, the 9600 (non-Pro, non-XT) has a 1.3 billion pixel/sec fill rate, which is the same as the PC version of the Radeon 9600 non-Pro. Interestingly, the PC version of the Radeon 9600XT has a 2.0 billion pixel/sec fill rate, while the PC Radeon 9600 Pro has the same 1.6 billion pixel/sec fill rate as the Mac 9600XT and 9650. I guess Apple uses a lower clock speed.

Anyway, what this all means is that the 9600 is between the old GeForce FX5200 and the Radeon 9600XT in performance, and the new Radeon 9650 is the same as the 9600XT but with double the VRAM, one dual-link DVI port, and no ADC port. It won't be any faster than the 9600XT except in areas where 128 MB of VRAM isn't enough (which is extremely rare).

[freakboy2]

this update = lame.

[Luca Rescigno]

Oh yeah, and this update is DAMN disappointing (not that any of you guys disagree with me). The video cards are slightly improved... at least they ditched the FX5200 on the low end, but it's not like the 9600 is an especially powerful card. Even the 9600XT/9650 is only slightly better than it, and still a low-end video card despite being in a $3000 machine. I think the point of that was to add dual-link functionality to an inexpensive card for the PowerMacs. Not everyone who wants a 30" Cinema display is going to need a $500 video card.

The other stats on the dual PowerMacs are pretty disappointing. I mean, I'm glad they increased the base RAM and hard drive sizes, and included a 16x optical drive, but those updates were obligatory anyway. They were already overdue. They should have been added several months ago as a quiet "feature-bump" in the old lineup. Oh, and they removed the standard-issue modem from the PowerMacs, which basically translates to a $29 price hike. Before, if you didn't need the modem, you could remove it in a BTO configuration for a $29 discount, but now it's a $29 option.

The single processor model has not changed at all... it hasn't been bumped to 2.0 GHz, it hasn't gotten a larger hard drive or even more RAM (Apple's willingness to keep this model at 256 MB despite its $1,500 price does not bode well for future RAM updates in other Macs; essentially they're saying $1,500 is below the price cutoff for 512 MB). It still has the same 8x Superdrive as the old models. Ironically, they didn't even bother removing the modem from the standard configuration, so the cheapest model is the only one to ship with a modem as standard equipment, and you can save $29 by removing it.

Now, I don't have a huge basis for complaint here... I can't afford even the lowest end PowerMac, and I don't need one. But it seems that if Apple's going to implement the smallest bump in processor speed for any Power Macintosh, ever (it's true, Apple has never bumped the highest-end processor in any PowerMac by as little as 8% before), they should throw their pro users a bone. It's in their own best interest to make the PowerMac a competitive product... after almost a year with no updates, they come out with this? It's just pathetic. The only hope is that A) they update the single processor model in a few weeks or months to be in line with the dualies, and/or B) they update the entire PowerMac line six months from now instead of waiting a full year. This update is definitely the most stop-gap update to the PowerMac line I've ever seen. If it buys Apple and IBM some time, that's fine... it just seems that in the meantime, they should have done something to make up for it, like a price drop.

EDIT: On the plus side, Apple is selling unopened old models for $1699, $1899, and $2699, and they have refurbished dual 1.8s and 2.5s for $1499 and $2299, respectively. Those seem like much better deals than the new ones.

[AssassyN]

Originally Posted by Agent69

As I remarked in the other thread about this update, this refresh was good timing for me, so I have pulled the trigger on the dual 2.0ghz G5. It nearly doubles the performance of every single thing on my SP 1.25ghz G4 MDD and it gives me Tiger (and it also should be much quieter).

That was kinda dumb. They have BRAND NEW "old" Dual 2.0's in their Sale section for $1,899.

[Agent69]

Originally Posted by AssassyN

That was kinda dumb. They have BRAND NEW "old" Dual 2.0's in their Sale section for $1,899.

The old ones don't offer a dual layer DVD burner, and I wanted a ATI video card. Plus, the new ones come with Tiger installed, not Panther installed with a lame upgrade CD for Tiger.

[AssassyN]

Yeah, good point there....guess I'm just bummed about how incredibly (honestly, this is a bit hard to fathom) LAME these updates are. Thank heavens Apple didn't make a BIG front page annoucement...maybe shareholders won't see the tidbit about how horrendous these long overdue and still underapplied updates are.

[Leonard]

Originally Posted by Markovich

Also, notice that the ATi X800 is no longer available from Apple.

The ATI Radeon X800XT was never available from Apple - a lot of people wished it was. The ATI Radeon 9800XT was.

Yeah, a pretty disappointing update all around. I guess I'll be happy with my current G5 for another couple years.

[Love Calm Quiet]

Everybody thinks this upgrade is "lame". So why did Apple do it? Because they can!
Just like the reason they didn't release 3.0GHz... because they can't.
I'm sure Apple is more displeased with the CPU limitations than users (except at 'NN) are.

[Eriamjh]

The video cards, the dual layer burners, and the processor speeds are just bumps. Hopefully, there will be a price cut in the next 3 months or an update in 6 months to a MAJOR update (MP, PCIe, etc.).

My dual 800 was choking on a QT video yesterday, but I should not upgrade until 2006. Must... fight... temptation...

[Simon]

Crazy. Can you guys imagine?

These Power Macs are going to be around till January 2006 or maybe even longer depending on how long it takes Apple to ship the Antares/PCIe PowerMacs after they announce them at MWSF!

[KeyLimePi]

Originally Posted by Love Calm Quiet

I'm sure Apple is more displeased with the CPU limitations than users (except at 'NN) are.

I was secretly hoping for multicore...not for the speed, but for the heat/power cut. There's still something scary to me about a liquid-cooled computer.

[rhombus]

Originally Posted by Love Calm Quiet

Everybody thinks this upgrade is "lame". So why did Apple do it? Because they can!
Just like the reason they didn't release 3.0GHz... because they can't.
I'm sure Apple is more displeased with the CPU limitations than users (except at 'NN) are.

But they can double the RAM for the top end Powermac, they can include a better graphic card, they can redesign the motherboard for PCIe (they had nearly a year). They could even throw in some more software, like including Pages and Keynote.

[adios]

Just got a refurb dual 2.5 for $2299... thanks Luca Rescigno for the tip!

[iREZ]

i'm no powermac guru...but i was looking forward to seeing a single 2.0 G5. apple better have something up their sleeves after showing this terrible bump, i bet the first gen dual 2.0 owners aren't complaining...

[milhous]

now we'll have to wait another 6+ months or so for desktop updates.

[discotronic]

Originally Posted by iREZ

i'm no powermac guru...but i was looking forward to seeing a single 2.0 G5. apple better have something up their sleeves after showing this terrible bump, i bet the first gen dual 2.0 owners aren't complaining...

I agree, I was hoping to see a speed bump in the low end. The least they could have done is drop the price or bumped up the RAM or added the double layer drive. The cost of a double layer drive isn't that much.

With rumors of a new iMac coming with the 2GHz it surprises me that Apple is going to let the consumer line surpass a model of the pro line.

[lewisyu]

This upgrade is just a joke. Very disappointed.

Show me the dual-core!

[JonahLee]

I am dissapointed by this too, and I have been holding out on a G5 hoping that this rev would be better, but my Dual 1.42 is starting to seem a little slow for the high end graphics I am doing. I am dissapointed about not having a RADEON 9800XT or especially The 800, which I guess I will need to purchases seperately once I get some more money. I do like the bigger hard drives standard, and the dual layer burner as I was considering buying an external dual layer anyway, and it is a huge upgrade from my 4x Superdrive.

[rotuts]

Well I view this as a price drop, with more stuff for the same price ( dual burner etc)

but it won't tempt me yet. and the modem issue is a little cheezy. do most people that get G5s only use cable/DSL?

and the graphic cards require real study. thanks to those who have pointed those issues out.

rotuts

maybe someday Ill become and adict too!

[eddiecatflap]

well ,it made my mind up for me

imac G5 here i come

[Link]

Ouch. I wonder if the 9650 is essentially a 9600XT with a dual-link jack instead of ADC (and a few slight changes because of such, but not much).. to the point of working in a g4, that'd be da ****...


[Welnic]

Originally Posted by adios

Just got a refurb dual 2.5 for $2299... thanks Luca Rescigno for the tip!

Ditto for me. I have really been wanting a new rig, to me this seems to be best bang for the buck. This will be the fourth refurbished G5 that I have ordered, the other three for work.

[B_2]

Regarding the graphics card in the New Dual 2.0, is it still possible to hook up and ADC Apple Display into the Mac without using the DVI to ADC Adaptor?

B_2

[JonahLee]

Anyone see these for sale anyplace but from Apple? Amazon had them for pre-order yesterday, but now it won't let you pre-order or get applecare for it, and no one else seems to have them yet, though most places have price dropped the older models.

[Stephen-I-Am]

Originally Posted by adios

Just got a refurb dual 2.5 for $2299... thanks Luca Rescigno for the tip!

Where's the URL for the refurbished section of the Apple store? Thanks.

Stephen

[kilmanjaro]

Originally Posted by JonahLee

Anyone see these for sale anyplace but from Apple? Amazon had them for pre-order yesterday, but now it won't let you pre-order or get applecare for it, and no one else seems to have them yet, though most places have price dropped the older models.

macmall has them I believe

[kilmanjaro]

Originally Posted by Stephen-I-Am

Where's the URL for the refurbished section of the Apple store? Thanks.

Stephen

Edit: That link doesn't work. Just look towards the bottom right of the apple store and there's a red tag that says Sale on it.

[BZ]

An added bonus of this configuration is that it now include BlueTooth 2.0

"Internal Bluetooth 2.0+EDR (Enhanced Data Rate) Module:
Apple's internal Bluetooth module fits completely inside the computer so there's nothing that sticks out or can break off and it's easy to secure. This module allows you to connect your Power Mac G5 with Bluetooth-enabled peripheral devices, such as the Apple Wireless Keyboard or Wireless Mouse, mobile phones and PDAs wirelessly. Synchronize data or send files without using an inch of cable. "

BZ

[JonahLee]

Nice, I didn't notice that, so that must be eating up the modem cost.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by JonahLee

Anyone see these for sale anyplace but from Apple? Amazon had them for pre-order yesterday, but now it won't let you pre-order or get applecare for it,

Perhaps Apple won't let them carry the new models because they posted the specs a day early?