[frankthetank966]

As some of you may know, Microsoft has just release Vista. Vista is a very unusual operating system since it requires the user to have extremely high specifications to run the software. The recommended amount of RAM needed on a computer to run Vista successfully is 1GB and most household computers (average) in the United Computer only have 512MB of RAM. Microsoft also recommends that users have a higher-end graphics card to run Vista well.

Vista is essentially an imitation of Apple’s Mac OSX. Vista, initiated a “dock” like sidebar and released a program very similar to Apple’s Widgets. This is not the only similarity to Mac OSX. Vista also has a program similar to “activity monitor.” Although this is not as similar to other Mac OSX programs, it is definitely a piece of software that us similar.

Am I the only one who thinks that Vista is an attempt to copy Apple’s Mac OSX?

[drpepper]

Originally Posted by frankthetank966 

As some of you may know, Microsoft has just...

[Eriamjh]

I'm still waiting for Longhorn to come out...

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

I'm still waiting for Longhorn to come out...

Vista is Longhorn.

[abbaZaba]

thank you for repeating years old opinions as your own

[chabig]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Vista is Longhorn.

No. Longhorn had more features.

[©öñFü$íóÑ]

Originally Posted by frankthetank966 

Am I the only one who thinks that Vista is an attempt to copy Apple’s Mac OSX?

No... but you are certainly not the first to think that....

[Eriamjh]

It was a joke, son!

[utw-Mephisto]

Originally Posted by chabig 

No. Longhorn had more features.

Was this a joke ?

(blabla ....)
is the latest release of Microsoft Windows, a line of graphical operating systems used on personal computers, including home and business desktops. Before its announcement on July 22, 2005, Vista was known by its codename Longhorn.[1] On November 8, 2006, Windows Vista development was completed and released to manufacturing. Over the next two months it was released to MSDN subscribers,
(...blabla)

[besson3c]

I know I'm probably going to be labeled a heretic or something, but consider this...

The term "innovative" is a buzz word that companies like Apple toss around, but in many cases this actually means "an interesting design", rather than something that is completely new from the ground up and non-existent prior.

The only real thing I can think of about the iPhone for instance that is innovative is the pinch and spread interface, the screen rotation thing, and possibly the sensors to dim the screen. Otherwise:

- touch interface: done before
- Google maps: done
- Desktop applications on a device like this: done before
etc.

Now, I'm not belittling Apple here. All I'm saying is that there is nothing inherently *wrong* with copying ideas. Artists and creators are constantly borrowing ideas and attempting to refine them.

So, while it is a little obvious where Microsoft got a lot of their inspiration from, and it is obvious that Microsoft is not in the business to be creatively fluent, I will not lambaste them as being thieves and criticize them for not coming up with their own ideas.

[frankthetank966]

Originally Posted by abbaZaba 

thank you for repeating years old opinions as your own

what?

[wyatt]

And OSX got many of the same features from Linux, including the Dock, which is a poor substitute for the old Apple menu, IMHO. Lets face it, to uber-simplify it, OSX exists because Apple took a free OS and ported it into a proprietary product they could sell. Innovation isn't about invention, but application. The Mac exists because Steve Jobs knew how to apply a GUI interface developed by Xerox (Apple did not invent the Mac OS back then any more than they invent OSX, they adapted other people's technology). Microsoft exists because Bill Gates knew how to apply QDOS, invented by Tim Paterson. and is still raking in cash because Gates wasn't blind to the potential of the GUI used on Macs.

OSX, Linux, and even Windows have some great features which are quite useful and ripe for reinvention and reapplication. Windows has been in catch up mode since OSX shipped, the original version of Longhorn floundered so long, they pulled the plug on it. Still, MS controls 96% of the market and for 92% or so of computer users, this will be first time they see many of the features Mac users have had for years.

[wyatt]

Originally Posted by utw-Mephisto 

Was this a joke ?

Actually, you are both right.

The original Longhorn dates back to 2001, but in 2004, MS completed scraped the project and started over again, but "Longhorn" remained the name for new project which became Vista. THe reason it was scraped was because the project was so far behind schedule all the new features were already becoming obsolete while they were still developing them.

So, there were two different Longhorn OS's.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by wyatt 

And OSX got many of the same features from Linux, including the Dock, which is a poor substitute for the old Apple menu, IMHO. Lets face it, to uber-simplify it, OSX exists because Apple took a free OS and cported it into a proprietary product they could sell. Innovation isn't about invention, but application. The Mac exists because Steve Jobs knew how to apply a GUI interface developed by Xerox (Apple did not invent the Mac OS back then any more than they invent OSX, they adapted other people's technology). Microsoft exists because Bill Gates knew how to apply QDOS, invented by Tim Paterson. and is still raking in cash because Gates wasn't blind to the potential of the GUI used on Macs.

OSX, Linux, and even Windows have some great features which are quite useful and ripe for reinvention and reapplication. Windows has been in caught up mode since OSX shipped, Longhorn floundered so long, they pulled the plug on it. Still, MS controls 96% of the market and for 92% or so of computer users, this will be first time they see many of the features Mac users have had for years.

Well said!

Looking ahead to Leopard, spaces and the revision control of files also isn't new. You're exactly right, it's all about the implementation and application.

Of course, what legal teams choose to pursue is probably another thing altogether.

[frankthetank966]

Originally Posted by wyatt 

And OSX got many of the same features from Linux, including the Dock, which is a poor substitute for the old Apple menu, IMHO. Lets face it, to uber-simplify it, OSX exists because Apple took a free OS and ported it into a proprietary product they could sell. Innovation isn't about invention, but application. The Mac exists because Steve Jobs knew how to apply a GUI interface developed by Xerox (Apple did not invent the Mac OS back then any more than they invent OSX, they adapted other people's technology). Microsoft exists because Bill Gates knew how to apply QDOS, invented by Tim Paterson. and is still raking in cash because Gates wasn't blind to the potential of the GUI used on Macs.

OSX, Linux, and even Windows have some great features which are quite useful and ripe for reinvention and reapplication. Windows has been in catch up mode since OSX shipped, the original version of Longhorn floundered so long, they pulled the plug on it. Still, MS controls 96% of the market and for 92% or so of computer users, this will be first time they see many of the features Mac users have had for years.

nicely said.

[SirCastor]

I define Innovations as the non-obvious, but useful creation or merging of technologies.

Xerox had developed this cool idea for using a mouse to click on things, like a menu. Jef Raskin (and others) took that idea and built a desktop metaphor around it. He did things with it that xerox hadn't dreamed of. They stuck it in a package that cost 4 digits rather than 5.

Other Apple engineers said "hey, what if we could make little applications that weren't applications. Things that did one thing really well, and didn't have a large memory footprint" the birth of the desk accessory (the precursor to the widget)

Here's something innovative that Microsoft is doing: They're going to bring down the cost of high performance video cards. They made their system so dang hungry, that people are going to want better faster video cards. They're not going to spend $300-$400 for them though, and so (I imagine inadvertently) I expect that the industry is going to be producing some nice, low-cost video cards. Nobody loses there.

OSs are going to be playing imitator for a long time. OS X has plenty of features that it borrowed from Windows. I hope it continues to be that way. Competition is good for development.

[chabig]

I actually saw and got to play with a Xerox Star back in 1981. Although it had a mouse and a graphical interface, it was a lot different than the Mac. As SirCastor said, the Apple team took the GUI in a whole different direction. It's completely wrong to imply that the Mac "copied" the Xerox look and feel. On the other hand, Microsoft almost completely copied the Mac look and feel.

Chris

[msuper69]

Originally Posted by frankthetank966 

As some of you may know, Microsoft has just release Vista. Vista is a very unusual operating system since it requires the user to have extremely high specifications to run the software....
Am I the only one who thinks that Vista is an attempt to copy Apple’s Mac OSX?

"released"

That is unusual for the user to have such extremely high specifications. Normally those specs would apply to the user's computer.

I do believe you are the first person to come to the conclusion that Vista is a copy of OS X. I've never ever heard of that before. Thanks for the heads up!

[mac128k-1984]

I have to say I am impressed with Vista's gui, it certainly has a nice polish to it, provided you have the horsepower to drive it. While the arguments about microsoft copying apple are valid they certainly can make things look nice.

Don't forget apple is not without sin, i.e., dashboard and watson, its just that microsoft has an infamous history of ripping off apple.

[lpkmckenna]

I saw Vista's slideshow overlay for the first time on Wednesday. Look here: http://www.xp.net.pl/vista/screenshots/slideshow.jpg

Uh, is that "cog" menu a direct rip from Apple, or did Apple rip it from somewhere else?

[frankthetank966]

This is a bit OT but what do you think is going to be more "innovative" Vista or Leopard? I personally think Leopard is a step ahead of Vista since it has one key thing everyone wants "TIME MACHINE!!!". I also like the idea of spaces.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by frankthetank966 

This is a bit OT but what do you think is going to be more "innovative" Vista or Leopard? I personally think Leopard is a step ahead of Vista since it has one key thing everyone wants "TIME MACHINE!!!". I also like the idea of spaces.

I like Spaces too, but it's another implementation on an existing innovation.

[runninkyle17]

yeah spaces was done in linux (can't remember when though)

It is a great idea and I look forward to using it because I usually have at least ten windows open when I am working. I think Leopard is a step in the right direction, but I also am not all that excited about time machine.

Time Machine is a good concept, but I think it is more geared for desktops and not laptops. All of that extra space to preserve your lost data has got be filled somehow. Exactly how is that going to be implememted on a space starved laptop?

I like that MS is trying to put out a more polished OS, but the big problem with most MS operating systems is the fact that they are resource hogs. I will be getting my copy of Vista in a week or so, but I most likely will not use it as my primary OS for a little while until all the bugs are worked out.

[brokenjago]

Originally Posted by wyatt

The Mac exists because Steve Jobs knew how to apply a GUI interface developed by Xerox

This is true, but only to a certain, and limited extent...

Read this.

[shifuimam]

I'm impressed with the responses from wyatt, besson3c, and others were well-thought-out. It was refreshing.

I'm not sure where frankthetank was going with Vista "copying Activity Montior". Windows has had a Task Manager for as long as I can remember. That combined with the Disk Manager console pretty much do what the Activity Monitor does...

The OS wars will never end. Ever. Pointing out who's copied whom and fighting over who came up with what technology first is entirely futile. Nobody will be happy until their chosen OS has squashed out every piece of competition, which is impossible because of these pesky laws we have against monopolies.

[hldan]

Originally Posted by wyatt 

And OSX got many of the same features from Linux, including the Dock, which is a poor substitute for the old Apple menu, IMHO. Lets face it, to uber-simplify it, OSX exists because Apple took a free OS and ported it into a proprietary product they could sell. Innovation isn't about invention, but application. The Mac exists because Steve Jobs knew how to apply a GUI interface developed by Xerox (Apple did not invent the Mac OS back then any more than they invent OSX, they adapted other people's technology). Microsoft exists because Bill Gates knew how to apply QDOS, invented by Tim Paterson. and is still raking in cash because Gates wasn't blind to the potential of the GUI used on Macs.

OSX, Linux, and even Windows have some great features which are quite useful and ripe for reinvention and reapplication. Windows has been in catch up mode since OSX shipped, the original version of Longhorn floundered so long, they pulled the plug on it. Still, MS controls 96% of the market and for 92% or so of computer users, this will be first time they see many of the features Mac users have had for years.

You are wrong about the OSX Dock. It did not come from Linux. That was from NeXTStep. Steve Jobs was on that when he wasn't at Apple.

[brokenjago]

Originally Posted by shifuimam

which is impossible because of these pesky laws we have against monopolies.

You are incorrect. There are no laws that prevent monopolies. There are laws that prevent companies from using their power to create a monopoly using practices that are unfair. A good example is how Microsoft would lower the price of a Windows license if you promised to ship no OS other than windows, and steeply raise the price if you did, making it prohibitive from a cost perspective for distributors such as Dell to say, ship Linux on some of it's lower end systems.

Note that the government is not going after Apple for it's monopoly of MP3 players, because they're not strong arming their way into it.

[vertigociel]

Originally Posted by runninkyle17 

Time Machine is a good concept, but I think it is more geared for desktops and not laptops. All of that extra space to preserve your lost data has got be filled somehow. Exactly how is that going to be implememted on a space starved laptop?

Time Machine does not use the main hard drive of the computer, desktop or laptop, to back up data, but instead uses an external hard drive. The whole idea of backing-up is to use a seperate hard drive, so that your data exist in two seperate physical locations, in case one gets lost or fried. Thus, Time Machine is easily implementable on a laptop - simply buy an external drive (which run between $150-$300) and plug it into your laptop at the end of each day to sync all your files.

[pyrite]

everything's derivative, many of mac's ideas have been yoinked from other OS's (particularly linux - eg dock, widgets etc, as mentioned..)
but yes, the general look and feel of most parts of vista is very mac, particularly their new home apps that mimic iLife almost identically.. thats the only part that really pissed me off

[frankthetank966]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I'm not sure where frankthetank was going with Vista "copying Activity Montior". Windows has had a Task Manager for as long as I can remember. That combined with the Disk Manager console pretty much do what the Activity Monitor does...

The OS wars will never end. Ever. Pointing out who's copied whom and fighting over who came up with what technology first is entirely futile. Nobody will be happy until their chosen OS has squashed out every piece of competition, which is impossible because of these pesky laws we have against monopolies.

Have you seen the new task manager? It looks identical to activity montitor. That is why I said they somewhat copied it. They copied the "images" and style of it.

[ngift]

I agree with the main thread thesis...MS is going down...

OS X Automation � Blog Archives � The Microsoft Bubble in 2006

[JLL]

Originally Posted by wyatt 

And OSX got many of the same features from Linux, including the Dock, which is a poor substitute for the old Apple menu, IMHO

The Mac OS X dock is from NeXTStep which appeared in 1985.

[hldan]

Too bad for MS that they couldn't mimick quality of the apps and security of Unix. I saw the Windows DVD Maker app, it lacks themes, graphics, professionalism of iDVD. Not the same at all. What I noticed is that Vista now uses about the same underlying code as the Mac for window redraws but it results in very poor window resizing. Anyone here tried Vista like I have should have noticed how poor Vista's window resizing now is. Web pages, the new fake Windows cloned apps and 3rd party apps all had slow window resizing.

[mac128k-1984]

How so, I'm running Vista and I've resized various windows, office, mail, internet explorer, cmd prompt, calendar various other non microsoft apps. I'm not sure whay you mean about poor resizing. Everyting appeared to work to my uneducated eyes.

[Strupat]

Originally Posted by frankthetank966 

This is a bit OT but what do you think is going to be more "innovative" Vista or Leopard? I personally think Leopard is a step ahead of Vista since it has one key thing everyone wants "TIME MACHINE!!!". I also like the idea of spaces.

Vista has a file version recovery system referred to as 'shadow copies' which is managed automatically with the system restore feature.