[NeutrinoMan]

Perhaps the uneven lighting issues in current MBP displays will become a thing of the past:

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2426

I got my refund for my grainy-display 15.4" C2D MBP, and was just about to place my order for a 17" glossy when I saw the above article.

I'm confident they'll address the screen coating issue that's causing the grainy appearance in the 15.4" model, but not with the current displays - Apple obviously, and sadly, is determined to clear their inventory with these displays. Based on the feedback from this Apple discussion thread, display problems (especially uneven backlighting) persist in 2007:

http://discussions.apple.com/thread....70044&tstart=0

I think I'm going to have to wait for these new LED backlit displays. Damned if I know what I'm going to do without a laptop for 4 months (or more)! Should of thought of that before I sold my PB G4

I'm curious to hear what other potential MacBook Pro buyers think - are you willing to wait for this next generation of display, or is not that big of a deal? Anyone out there know more about these LED backlights, and if they are worth waiting for?

[mduell]

Do you have a photo of what a grainy display looks like?

The LED backlights are generally brighter with better contrast. Some sources say they use more power, others say they use less.

[NeutrinoMan]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Do you have a photo of what a grainy display looks like?

The LED backlights are generally brighter with better contrast. Some sources say they use more power, others say they use less.

Unfortunately it's pretty much impossible to photograph the grain. Some people have likened it to taking a clear image and applying a 1-2% noise filter with photoshop. It's the result of a combo of factors, the high screen resolution, and overly-thick anti-reflective coating of the texture applied to the display. What results is a "sparkly" effect that especially evident on lighter colors - so what should be white appears as a grainy grey. It also affects the sharpness, the grainy appearance makes text appear "softer" - for those with a preference for sharp images and colour clarity, these 15.4" displays can be quite hard on the eyes and frustrating to work with. Others however, do not seem bothered by it.

This is not a "pickiness" problem - I urge anyone considering an online purchase to first go into a store and compare the 15" MPB screen to the 17" MPB, and you will see for yourself this dull grainy effect.

I've got my fingers crossed that Apple will address this with future displays, and hearing that they are considering a new design (LED backlighting) just gives me a bit more hope.

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by NeutrinoMan 

...I think I'm going to have to wait for these new LED backlit displays. Damned if I know what I'm going to do without a laptop for 4 months (or more)! ?

Current MBP screens are totally usable good quality components that work just fine even if one were to accept that there is a "grain" issue. My eye is fairly well trained and personally I find no problem comparing 15" matte screens to 17" matte screens.

If an individual is concerned about the alleged grain on matte 15" MBPs the glossy screen 15" or the 17" are both readily available. To me it does not make sense to do without such an important tool for months just to get a shot at version one of a newer LED screen that has nothing to do with function or productivity.

-Allen Wicks

[runninkyle17]

I know some people can't stand glossy displays, but for me I would just stick with the glossy displays because they are very nice.

I used matte screens for the past 6 years and I had two IBM Flexview screens which are amazing. I still think my 15.4" MBP Glossy screen blows the IBM's out of the water. Plus the glossy coating on the MBP's are not as thick and reflective as Sony's or Dell's so there is much less glare than most other glossy displays.

[ghporter]

Oh no, not this stuff again?!?! MY MBP display is NOT uneven, nor grainy. And for what it's worth, nobody has posted or linked to a picture that shows anything like what I would consider "grain."

From AskOxford online:
grainy

• adjective (grainier, grainiest) 1 granular. 2 (of a photograph) showing visible grains of emulsion. 3 (of wood) having prominent grain.

None of the supposed "grainy" display pictures posted here has shown anything like "visible grains of emulsion" or anything similar enough to call the image "grainy." I've seen pictures of overly bright screens, of poorly photographed screens, but not of "grainy" screens.

And uneven backlighting is something that's both covered and fixable. And again, I have yet to see anyone show what they meant by "uneven backlighting" here. In fact, I haven't seen any non-reject LCD present anything like uneven illumination-at least not uneven enough to see or note without instruments.

Yes, I'm surly about this-it sounds an awful lot like complaining that the gold plating is a micron too thin on this particular part of a bauble. Sorry if that bothers anyone, but that's how I feel about it.

[warfarer]

I wonder when they are going to release this into the Macbook line also. It mentions that Apple will upgrade the 15" first then it might seep into the 17" and the 13" models. I am holding off on buying a Macbook for Leopard and iLife 07 so I don't have to turn around really quickly and buy both.

[NeutrinoMan]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Oh no, not this stuff again?!?!

And uneven backlighting is something that's both covered and fixable. And again, I have yet to see anyone show what they meant by "uneven backlighting" here. In fact, I haven't seen any non-reject LCD present anything like uneven illumination-at least not uneven enough to see or note without instruments.

Yes, I'm surly about this-it sounds an awful lot like complaining that the gold plating is a micron too thin on this particular part of a bauble. Sorry if that bothers anyone, but that's how I feel about it.

I'm happy you've got a good display, and I understand your surlyness - I fully realize there are nitpickers out there that want to send machines back because the foam Apple packed it in smelled funny.

I would not have sent back my 15" MBP if I knew it wasn't going to compromise my productivity. I've never sent a Mac back before, and I didn't want to send this one back. I TRIED working with it, but ended up with massive eyestrain headaches. I've got a whole house full of perfectly good Macs, and have owned several powerbooks (3400, Pismo, G4 Aluminum), all with perfectly clear screens. I understand your reluctance to acknowledge this issue, hell - I didn't want to acknowledge it either! But I have enough experience with flat panels too know what's not right - and that grainy screen was not right. In visiting my local dealer, all the 15" MBPs displayed the same graininess, but the 17's were perfect and gorgeous. What have I got to gain by disparaging the 15"? Nothing.

My experience with Apple has always been excellent, and the fact that they promptly provided a full refund only reinforces that. My simple concern here is that there are SOME displays coming out of Apple that don't cut it as far as I'm concerned - I still want and need a MacBook Pro, but I'm understandably a little gun-shy after this latest experience.

You guys are correct to rant at those who are overly picky, but you need to hold your ammo on this one, because this is not one of those cases.

True, nobody's posted a "grainy" photo - I tried for a couple of bloody hours trying to photograph it, but honestly, it's too subtle for an amateur to capture. I really hope a pro photog can document this.

As for the documenting the uneven backlighting, I'm not sure what you mean - there are tons of photos and even movies on the Interweb:

YouTube - Apple fix my 17" MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo DISPLAY!

Now is there anyone out there with any tidbits or thoughts on the potential of this forthcoming (maybe) switch to LED backlighting (who isn't going to spend the whole time chewing me out )

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by NeutrinoMan 

I'm happy you've got a good display, and I understand your surlyness - I fully realize there are nitpickers out there that want to send machines back because the foam Apple packed it in smelled funny.

Best. Comeback. EVAR!!! And while there are indeed tons of pictures purporting to show this or that out on the Web, it's hard to separate the wheat (real, undoctored pictures taken well enough to show quantifiable issues) from the chaff (everything else) because there's no real monitoring or editorial management of what people post. For what it's worth, there ARE instruments that can measure everything from actual pixel size to illumination variation from one square centimeter to another on any kind of display; I'd LOVE to see someone do a really well designed study of what's "normal", what's "typical", and what's neither. Being a scientist, I live for quantifiable, repeatable observations, and have a (sometimes too vocal) problem with vague and irrepeatable (as in no specific process and no controls to ensure valid and reproducable measurements) comments and complaints.

I'm sorry you had real problems-and I think you are a rare exception among people complaining about "grainy" displays (as much because nobody has shown good examples of bad displays as anything else). And I'm firmly convinced that there is nothing systemically wrong with MBP displays. But if Apple can buy batteries that might just blow up, then they can also buy LCDs that aren't quite perfectly made or coated. I just wish that SOMEONE would show something that was verifiably and reproducably a "grainy" display to use as a benchmark. The instruments, cameras and techniques are out there, so maybe I just need to wait.

[NeutrinoMan]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

...For what it's worth, there ARE instruments that can measure everything from actual pixel size to illumination variation from one square centimeter to another on any kind of display; I'd LOVE to see someone do a really well designed study of what's "normal", what's "typical", and what's neither. Being a scientist, I live for quantifiable, repeatable observations...

A fellow scientist... why am I not surprised?

I second the motion for an objective (as much as is possbile) evaluation of these displays, with a thorough reporting of results. We need a reliable organization to take this on... how about Consumer Reports?

Uh... on second thought, maybe not!

On the topic of LED backlighting, there's the Samsung XL20:

http://www.gizmowatch.com/entry/sync...n-from-samsung

Has anyone seen any reviews of this product or reviews of any other LED backlit display? It'd be great to hear any kind of feedback. Thanks.

[Javizun]

Hold off a purchase for led displays when we all know they will have intiial issues?
If its not the grain getting you know something probably worse will get you in the future.

Plus the grain issue is none-existant to me. I think only if your nose is touching the screen and
your vision gettng damaged is the only time you actually see it.

And whos nose is contantly touching the screen? I thought so.

[bernt]

People doubting the "grain" issue has obviously not seen a MacBook Pro 15" next to a MacBook. The difference is *very* noticeable, even with glossy screen on the 15" as well.

While I have no problem living with my MBP 15" glossy, I totally understand people complaining. I just avoid looking at the MB screens at work, because they make me jealous!

[zerock]

i plan to upgrade my MB to a MBP in the near future, so indeed i will wait for an upgrade.

[solofx7]

this would not be a good upgrade for me.
Currently I am happy with my 17inch MBP.
battery life would have to nearly double for me to even think about it.
and resolution would have to go up significantly.

[allenranger2]

I'm just going to start laughing when I read that the LED lights are burning out. Then you'll have little black dots of nothingness on the screen. It'll look like the NorthEast US when we had the blackout in 2003 (or '04).

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by allenranger2 

I'm just going to start laughing when I read that the LED lights are burning out. Then you'll have little black dots of nothingness on the screen. It'll look like the NorthEast US when we had the blackout in 2003 (or '04).

But LEDs don't "burn out." Properly selected (by ratings) LEDs run basically forever.

[Hope4 TheWorld]

I would get one only if these conditions are met:

a) they put a SSD hard drive in. as an option, at least
b) access to the hard drive bay
c) a better hinge that goes past 120 degrees. I stand up a lot...
d) give me a Wireless-N card without the unlocking fee...
e) of course, Leopard

If this all happens during the summer, I'll be sure to snatch it up right away

[solofx7]

Originally Posted by Hope4 TheWorld 

I would get one only if these conditions are met:

a) they put a SSD hard drive in. as an option, at least
b) access to the hard drive bay
c) a better hinge that goes past 120 degrees. I stand up a lot...
d) give me a Wireless-N card without the unlocking fee...
e) of course, Leopard

If this all happens during the summer, I'll be sure to snatch it up right away

dude you are asking for alot.
how about a partridge in a pear tree to..
hehe..

[doemel]

Originally Posted by Hope4 TheWorld 

I would get one only if these conditions are met:

a) they put a SSD hard drive in. as an option, at least
b) access to the hard drive bay
c) a better hinge that goes past 120 degrees. I stand up a lot...
d) give me a Wireless-N card without the unlocking fee...
e) of course, Leopard

If this all happens during the summer, I'll be sure to snatch it up right away

a) it's got USB2, right? there's a place for your your SSD.
b) all you need is 2 types of screwdrivers to get access to the hard drive. Seriously, dude, how many times a year do you actually need access to your HD? Would you rather an impaired and often hideous design that might be more practical in these areas as can be found in (insert any PC brand) notebooks? Dude, you've got an Apple. Function follows form sometimes for a good reason.
c) Agree with you on this one. Apple had to be more careful with their AL hinge design after the problems taht plagued the whole TI series.
d) You'll get that in any Mac purchased today.
e) It's not like we've been waiting for 6 years like some have been for that Longhorn thing...

Cheer up, all will be good. Daddy Jobs knows what's best for us.

[brokenjago]

I would get one only if these conditions are met:

a) they put a SSD hard drive in. as an option, at least
b) access to the hard drive bay
c) a better hinge that goes past 120 degrees. I stand up a lot...
d) give me a Wireless-N card without the unlocking fee...
e) of course, Leopard

If this all happens during the summer, I'll be sure to snatch it up right away

a) You're OK with 32 GB of storage for twice the cost of a 160GB drive?
b) I agree. If apple can do it in the MacBook, why can't it be done in the pro?!
c) Sure
d) You really care about saving that $2, huh? Well, it's your money.
e) Good call

b) all you need is 2 types of screwdrivers to get access to the hard drive. Seriously, dude, how many times a year do you actually need access to your HD? Would you rather an impaired and often hideous design that might be more practical in these areas as can be found in (insert any PC brand) notebooks? Dude, you've got an Apple. Function follows form sometimes for a good reason.

I wouldn't call the MacBook an "impaired and often hideous design." Just in case you didn't notice, the HD on the MacBook 13.3" is user-replaceable. Very, very easy too. Jusr unscrew the latch where you put RAM, pull the supplied tab, and blam, HD is popped out. Quite handy!

[doemel]

Originally Posted by Hope4 TheWorld 

I wouldn't call the MacBook an "impaired and often hideous design." Just in case you didn't notice, the HD on the MacBook 13.3" is user-replaceable. Very, very easy too. Jusr unscrew the latch where you put RAM, pull the supplied tab, and blam, HD is popped out. Quite handy!

Point taken. I haven't realized that Apple did something about that in their budget Notebook lineup. I guess I'm still traumatized by the HD swapping procedure I performed on 2 or 3 of my friends' iBooks.

Also, don't forget that the MacBook is a tad thinner than the MBP. And packs more power.

[paulc]

Might be an idea to look outside the world of intel mac laptops to see where technology is or may be going. LCD displays have turned into the hottest tech for large screen HD displays. The guys that make this stuff have invested billions and billions in new fabs... the so-called 8th generation plants. The most basic point was far better ability to produce very large glass.

We know that in 06, the big news in LCD revolved around pixel density. At the beginning of the year, the most common resolution was 1366 x 768. Then came the 1920 x 1080 resolutions, called "1080p" and now being touted as "full" or "true" hi def.

Being the hot technology usually means it's also the technology that moves forward faster. We KNOW how hot LCD is for this application, so it's very reasonable to expect that we'll see more "new stuff" for LCD than other technologies this year. While there are several potentials, my judgement is that the most likely on is replacing the CCFL backlights with LED-based ones. Some of the benefits were already mentioned, so I won't repeat them.

Now I have no special source for hat apple may or may not do. Who knows, maybe they will wait to see if OLED may become anything of a factor. But the bottom line is that it's a very good bet the LCD makers are going to be gaining a lot of experience using LED backlighting this year.

[solofx7]

Originally Posted by doemel 

Point taken. I haven't realized that Apple did something about that in their budget Notebook lineup. I guess I'm still traumatized by the HD swapping procedure I performed on 2 or 3 of my friends' iBooks.

Also, don't forget that the MacBook is a tad thinner than the MBP. And packs more power.

is the MacBook thinner?
i thought the MacBook Pros were faster with more ram and such...
i am confused...

[doemel]

Originally Posted by solofx7 

is the MacBook thinner?
i thought the MacBook Pros were faster with more ram and such...
i am confused...

argh... the other way around, of course. I shouldn't post here while I'm at work!

[NeutrinoMan]

This article is older, but it does a good job of explaining that LED backlighting could provide for better colour reproduction:

http://neasia.nikkeibp.com/neasia/000503

And in the "Did you know..." column, one of the world's biggest flat screens uses LED backklighting:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/03/09/s...-led-backligh/

And more confirmation that Apple is going the LED route:

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20070103PD210.html

It sure is tempting to wait and see what these new screens will look like... but my guess is we won't see another revision to MBP line until April.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by paulc 

We know that in 06, the big news in LCD revolved around pixel density. At the beginning of the year, the most common resolution was 1366 x 768. Then came the 1920 x 1080 resolutions, called "1080p" and now being touted as "full" or "true" hi def.

Being the hot technology usually means it's also the technology that moves forward faster. We KNOW how hot LCD is for this application, so it's very reasonable to expect that we'll see more "new stuff" for LCD than other technologies this year. While there are several potentials, my judgement is that the most likely on is replacing the CCFL backlights with LED-based ones. Some of the benefits were already mentioned, so I won't repeat them.

Now I have no special source for hat apple may or may not do. Who knows, maybe they will wait to see if OLED may become anything of a factor. But the bottom line is that it's a very good bet the LCD makers are going to be gaining a lot of experience using LED backlighting this year.

1920x1200 15" LCDs have been available ($50-150 premium over lower res) in laptops for over 3 years now. Apple passed on them in both the "Year of the Laptop" and the "Year of HD".

[NeutrinoMan]

Originally Posted by mduell 

1920x1200 15" LCDs have been available ($50-150 premium over lower res) in laptops for over 3 years now. Apple passed on them in both the "Year of the Laptop" and the "Year of HD".

Ouch. Bitter! But understandable. And another reason why I'm leaning towards waiting for the next revision... I'm thinking we might just get WUXGA in the next 17" MBP.

Are you really serious about the WUXGA in the 15"? Hard on the eyes, no?

[mduell]

Originally Posted by NeutrinoMan 

Ouch. Bitter! But understandable. And another reason why I'm leaning towards waiting for the next revision... I'm thinking we might just get WUXGA in the next 17" MBP.

Are you really serious about the WUXGA in the 15"? Hard on the eyes, no?

Yes. It's farking beautiful. If you can't read it, make your font sizes bigger; the text will still look better. But hopefully Apple will offer high res (1920x1200) and low res (1280x800) options to keep the "I can't read the type" crowd silent.
I'm sure 17" will get it before 15", but the 17" is just too big for me. I'll keep my Dell a while longer.

[phox]

I just stumbled on this thread while looking for something else... and I for one have to say the C2D MBP I just bought does have the grain/shimmer issue common to many manufacturers' LCD panels, as well as uneven backlighting, particularly in the corners and along the left/right sides. I'm going to bookmark this thread and hopefully get around to taking a picture of the issue. It's not just that it's a grain issue -- with various grays and whites it really messes with your eyes because there's also a prismatic effect. It's very real, and not just something people made up to whine about.

[phox]

Note very carefully the difference in tint from pixel to pixel in this example. This is what's being observed. It's particularly annoying because it has a shimmery effect due to appearing differently to either eye. http://phox.ca/img/CRW_6226.png (note that this image is enormous, so if you have a slow connection, go away =)

[ghporter]

phox, your picture shows a Moire pattern. That's what you get when two sets of similar line patterns are superimposed on each other. It looks an awful lot like the surface treatment on your screen is off from being parallel with the way the pixels are aligned just enough to be bothersome. It's NOT uneven lighting-not at all! It IS something that makes the screen very difficult to use, and I think you should see if Apple will replace it.

[NeutrinoMan]

Originally Posted by phox 

...uneven backlighting, particularly in the corners and along the left/right sides. I'm going to bookmark this thread and hopefully get around to taking a picture of the issue. It's not just that it's a grain issue -- with various grays and whites it really messes with your eyes because there's also a prismatic effect. It's very real, and not just something people made up to whine about.

Thanks for the contribution phox. Your image is the closest thing we have has to illustrating this problem - although I'm thinking the shimmering grain would show up even more if you used whatever technique you used on a simple pure white desktop background.

As for the uneven backlighting, I forelornly went into my local dealer again yesterday (for about the 8th time) hoping the MBPs would somehow look different... but the 15" and 17" machines demo machines are disappointing, the 15"'s are dark, grainy, shimmering and uneven, while the 17" doesn't have the grain or shimmer, the unevenness of illumination on certain machines is ridiculous (there is a "luck of the draw" going on here, because one 17" on display seemed to have very even backlighting). Those of you trying this in the store for yourself, I recommend setting the desktop background to a light grey, it seems to illustrate the problem the best.

I'm beginning to think this latest batch, in addition to the grain issue, has some serious backlighting problems.

If you've got an MBP with a good display, show it lots of love of and affection, because its apparently a rare animal!

My mind is made up, as inconvenient as it is, I'm going not going to purchase until a new revision.

In the meantime, thanks to those posting more information/comments on LED backlighting technology - I dearly hope it is the MBP's saviour.

[NeutrinoMan]

One of the arguments surrounding LED technology for backlighting is whether employment of LEDs will increase or decrease demand on the laptop battery. I've found a couple of articles that address this somewhat:

LED laptops: Thinner, lighter, longer, better | Crave : The gadget blog

Yes, I realize that the Sony VAIO VGN only has an 11" display, but the point is that battery life improved (hardly scientific though, we don't know if the increase in battery life can be attributed to something else, such as the processor)

So here's a bit more a of technical treatment:

Reducing laptop battery drain with LED backlights - 21/02/2006 - Electronics Weekly

It's a good nerdy read, and there's more good news in it - LED backlighting significantly improves colour reproduction.

And for you environmental freaks, LEDs don't use mercury like the currently-used CCFL backlights do!

[NeutrinoMan]

New LED laptops part of Leopard release?

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/22/a...t-macbook-pro/

Sounds good to me!

[phox]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

phox, your picture shows a Moire pattern. That's what you get when two sets of similar line patterns are superimposed on each other. It looks an awful lot like the surface treatment on your screen is off from being parallel with the way the pixels are aligned just enough to be bothersome. It's NOT uneven lighting-not at all! It IS something that makes the screen very difficult to use, and I think you should see if Apple will replace it.

Read my post again. I'm a professional photographer and well aware of moire issues.

The issue is that, depending on the exact viewing angle, a particular picture element takes on a slightly different hue and brightness due to the prismatic effect of the screen coating. Try spraying water on a CRT. It's *exactly* that effect, only on a much smaller scale. As I mentioned, the reason it's impossible to photograph the entire effect is that it's more pronounced due to being different for each eye.

[NeutrinoMan]

I see MacNN prettied up the forum something fierce!

Speaking of improving appearance, the momentum on this new LED technology continues to build -

http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0702leddisplay.html

Can only hope this happens in the first quarter... you make it Apple, I'll buy it!

[paulc]

FWIW, it looks like almost the entire line of Samsung LCD monitors aimed at the computer market are going LED backlit with the 07 models.

[bluedog]

For those who doubt the coating/clarity issue with the current LCDs. I've seen it and didn't realize it was a widespread issue. I thought the display was merely 'dirty'.

'Prismatic effect' is a very good description of how it looks. Think about the last time you sneezed in front of your CRT or TV. Remember how that looked? Sure you could cover your nose with a tissue but you want to see the specs of rainbow color. The problem really looks a bit like that, but evenly spread across the display or in specific areas -- and it doesn't just 'wipe off.'

[NeutrinoMan]

Originally Posted by bluedog 

For those who doubt the coating/clarity issue with the current LCDs. I've seen it and didn't realize it was a widespread issue. I thought the display was merely 'dirty'.

As excited as I am about the new LED lighting curing the uneven lighting problem, I am just as concerned about the screen coating. I've been doing my best to see as many of these screens as possible at as many different retail locations as I can, and I am completely convinced that the screens used in this current crop of 15" MBPs were simply treated with too much anti-glare coating. Either that, or the mixture they sprayed with was not correct and it created too much of a "texture" - either way, we've got a lot of "grainy" screens out there.

While the higher resolution of these machines is also a factor in creating the prismatic effect, it can't be blamed as the cause. There's no reason that the higher-res 15" screens can't be perfectly clear (they certainly were with the G4 1.67 GHz models). I believe the real culprit here is poor anti-glare coating. Uneven backlighting, which appears to be more widespread than it should be, is just salt in the wound.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Apple is aware of coating issue, and we're going to see better displays in the next revision.

They wouldn't mess up bright new LED screens with crappy screen coating, would they?

[NeutrinoMan]

Looks like Samsung might be a supplier of LED displays for Apple:

http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/02/...s.and.macbooks

but that concerns me; I've read in other forums that Samsung's displays use more power than others. Can anybody confirm this?

I want an LED display, but I sure wouldn't want battery life to suffer.

[ghporter]

WHICH Samsung displays? Some of their LCD displays may use different cold cathode tubes and thus more power.

But HOW can an LED display help but use LESS power than a cold cathode-lit LCD?

[mduell]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

But HOW can an LED display help but use LESS power than a cold cathode-lit LCD?

They're talking about moving to LED backlit LCDs, not LED displays.

LEDs are marginally (~10%) more efficient at turning power into light than fluorescents are. The big gains are color accuracy and backlight evenness (due to having an array of lights across the entire backing rather than just one at the bottom).

[NeutrinoMan]

Originally Posted by mduell 

The big gains are color accuracy and backlight evenness (due to having an array of lights across the entire backing rather than just one at the bottom).

Very good point - better color and even illumination is what I'm craving LED backlighting for. I'd be very happy if battery life was maintained at current levels, but more is always appreciated.

There are some better pictures of the LED backlit panels here:

Samsung's 15.4, 30, and 40-inch LED-backlit LCD panels


Interesting that the article notes these could also end up repackaged in a new version of Apple's 30" display.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by mduell 

They're talking about moving to LED backlit LCDs, not LED displays.

LEDs are marginally (~10%) more efficient at turning power into light than fluorescents are. The big gains are color accuracy and backlight evenness (due to having an array of lights across the entire backing rather than just one at the bottom).

Let's chalk my mention of "LCDs" up to "challenged, early morning fingers," ok?

While the cold cathode lamps may be only slightly less efficient at the conversion, the driver for those cold cathodes can be VERY less efficient. I was referring to the whole system, including the inverter.

Further, don't most screens have TWO cold cathodes, one at the top and the other at the bottom?

Anyway, the number of white LED's you'd need to light a screen would not be anywhere near as many as you might think-light piping (aka fiberoptics) is your friend.

[NeutrinoMan]

This supposed Apple event on February 20th...

I realize there's an extremely low likelihood of a new macbook pros being announced, BUT - does anyone think there might be a not-so-silent upgrade in the display of the 15" model to the LED backlightning?

In other words, no change in the machine except for the screen?

Or maybe a new 13.3" macbook pro with the LED backlight?

Yeah... I'm dreaming

[NeutrinoMan]

More evidence of an industry shift away from CCFL technology

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=6556

The preponderance of evidence is pointing toward LED displays in the next generation of MBPs, but you have to wonder if the whole line will get them. From what I have been reading it sounds like the larger displays are more expensive, so it might be some time before we see LED backlighting in the 17".

But it would be pretty strange from a marketing perspective to have LED in one model, and CCFL in the another, wouldn't it?

[onlinemike]

I bought my new 15" PBP yesterday. It was a refurb unit from Apple and the screen looks great.

[NeutrinoMan]

Originally Posted by onlinemike 

I bought my new 15" PBP yesterday. It was a refurb unit from Apple and the screen looks great.

So you bought one of the G4 1.67GHz refurbs? From what I know, they are not affected by the grain issue. My old 1.33 GHz PBG4 screen was fantastic. It looks like you may have got the last of the 15", the US store is not listing any more 15" G4s. But the deal for the 17" looks tempting:

Refurbished PowerBook G4 17-inch 1.67GHz SuperDrive
512MB DDR2 PC2-4200 SDRAM
120GB Hard Drive
ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 (128MB DDR)
AirPort Extreme
Bluetooth 2.0+Enhanced Data Rates
Backlit keyboard
Scrolling Trackpad
Dual link DVI
• Save 33% off the original price
Original price: $2,499.00
Your price: $1,699.00

What makes me mad is the Apple ALWAYS screws us Canadians on the exchange rate. That $1699 USD price converts to $1950 CAN, but Apple Store Canada charges $2000. OK, only $50, but still...

[buddy1065]

I'm very happy with my MPB 15" matte screen and I'm not going to look around for something to compare it to. If the grain theory is true I don't care to look for any dissapointment with what I see presently as a flawless screen. I think the underclocked GPU is a more important issue or a third USB port. Oblivion could use a little more oomph in Bootcamp.

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o...ngradHouse.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o...ssBowWings.jpg

But that's more of a nitpic.

[NeutrinoMan]

So it's no longer speculation:

Apple to ship Macs with backlit LCDs in 2007

And so we come back to the original question... will you wait?

I'm going crazy without a PowerBook, and just about pulled the trigger on a Refurb a few times, but this news strengthens my resolve to wait it out.

Come on Steve release those new MacBook Pros for criminy's sake!