[wataru]

I've always been somewhat amused by self-referential acronyms. The only examples I know are

GNU = "GNU's Not Unix"
WINE = "WINE is Not an Emulator"
Also from a Dilbert strip, "The TTP Project," where TTP stands for "The TTP Project."

Are there any other relatively well-known ones out there?

[Chuckit]

Sometimes it seems like it's impossible to find an open-source project without a recursive acronym.

LAME => LAME Ain't an MP3 Encoder
PHP => PHP Hypertext Preprocessor
YAML => YAML Ain't Markup Language
RPM => RPM Package Manager (yes, they actually made RedHat Package Manager recursive)
giFT => giFT isn't FastTrack

[wataru]

I had no idea all those were all recursive. Especially something like YAML where "YA" so often stands for "Yet Another."

And I thought PHP was just "Hypertext PreProcessor" where they were trying to be clever by taking the "Pre" literally and prepending it to the acronym.

[andreas_g4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recursive_acronyms

[ManOfSteal]

PINE — Pine is not Elm

[SVass]

ACRONYM is Abbreviated Coded Rendition Of Name Yielding Meaning.
(from the B-1 Bomber program acronym dictionary)

[lavar78]

I was going to post that, MoS.

[Randman]

Acronyms are pronounced as a word. For example, NASA is an acronym. FBI and CIA are not, those and others like them are abbreviations.

[CreepingDeth]

Stuff - Stuff That Undergoes Fonix Fungi.

[philm]

Originally Posted by Randman

Acronyms are pronounced as a word. For example, NASA is an acronym. FBI and CIA are not, those and others like them are abbreviations.

FWIW, I don't think this is true. NASA and FBI are both acronyms.

My fave: TLA - three letter acronym.

[lavar78]

No, he's right; acronyms are words by definition. You could argue that so many people don't follow that definition that it's changed.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by philm

FWIW, I don't think this is true. NASA and FBI are both acronyms.

FBI is not an acronym because it is not a word. It's a series of letters that you read the names of. An acronym is, by definition, an independent word. For instance, you don't read our space program as "En-Ay-Ess-Ay," you read it as "Nasa." On the other hand, you don't read the bureau of investigation as "Fbi" (which is unpronouncible in English) you read it as "Eff-Bee-Eye."

[KeyLimePi]

Somewhere around 1998 the word 'acronym' became incredibly hip. People who --up until then -- were perfectly content to use the word 'abbreviation,' suddenly couldn't find enough opportunities to say 'acronym.'

Personally, I like the word abbreviation. I just wish it was shorter.

[btbvector]

FBI is an acronym. Acronyms are, by definition, abbreviations that uses initial letter or letters of words - so FBI is an acronym; if you want to differentiate pronouncable acronyms to non-pronouncable ones, you have to call pronouncable ones acronyms (LAME) and call unpronouncable ones initialism (RPM) ... but no one makes that distinction anymore, I think.

[lavar78]

Acronyms are, by definition, abbreviations that uses initial letter or letters of words

Unless you use the definition here:

Originally Posted by Dictionary.com

A word formed from the initial letters of a name, such as WAC for Women's Army Corps, or by combining initial letters or parts of a series of words, such as radar for radio detecting and ranging.

or here:

Originally Posted by Dictionary.app

a word formed from the initial letters of other words (e.g., radar, laser).

FWIW, Merriam-Webster uses both.

[andreas_g4]

BTW, "laser" is one of the coolest acronyms IMHO. It sounds as if it was just a word which matches the thing it describes perfectly, but it's Light Aplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation. Cool, isn't it?

[Randman]

Same with Radar.

[tooki]

Originally Posted by philm

FWIW, I don't think this is true. NASA and FBI are both acronyms.

My fave: TLA - three letter acronym.

NASA, laser, radar, AWOL, FUBAR are acronyms because you pronounce them as words.

FBI, NSA, SLA are initialisms because you spell out each letter.


Both acronyms and initialisms are abbreviations.

tooki

[ghporter]

NSA actually stands for "No Such Agency," though it is often used to mean "Not Saying Anything". (No, not really. They just told me to say that.)

I had always considered any "inialism" to be an acronym that was just pronounced funny. Of course that means that, contrary to the way my brain usually works, I hadn't examined the word "acronym" sufficiently to see that it refers to "name." A set of initials cannot be a name if it cannot be pronounced as a word.

In the Air Force I was constantly confronted with initials for just about everything-and many were situationally dependent. For example, the official DoD term for a job specialty is Military Occupational Series, or MOS, yet as an electronics technician, MOS is part of a longer acronym for Metal Oxide Semiconductor Field Effect Transistor-MOSFET. AFI stands for Armed Forces in Italy or Awaiting Further Instructions. It all comes down to jargon and shorthand...

[tooki]

Well, the military uses abbreviations as much out of necessity as to create regime. It's a method of making it clear that you're not in Kansas any more...

tooki

[BRussell]

My favorite are acronyms that were so obviously designed before the full name itself. Like USA-PATRIOT Act - Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism. I'm sure they just named the law that and later discovered that it coincidentally formed the words USA-PATRIOT.

[andreas_g4]

Originally Posted by BRussell

My favorite are acronyms that were so obviously designed before the full name itself. Like USA-PATRIOT Act - Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism. I'm sure they just named the law that and later discovered that it coincidentally formed the words USA-PATRIOT.

Right, I forgot that one. It's almost frightening...

[tooki]

The gov't does those fake acronyms all the time. It's freaking annoying, it's so cheesy.

tooki

[chabig]

GOD = God Over Djinn

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by BRussell

My favorite are acronyms that were so obviously designed before the full name itself. Like USA-PATRIOT Act - Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism. I'm sure they just named the law that and later discovered that it coincidentally formed the words USA-PATRIOT.

There's some feminist group around here called SISTERS, in which both the first and second S are the word "sisters." Like, geez, way to hammer in the point.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by tooki

The gov't does those fake acronyms all the time. It's freaking annoying, it's so cheesy.

tooki

Government isn't the only one who does that.

Here are the names and meanings of several Cardiovascular Medicine studies:

PURSUIT - Platelet glycoprotein IIb/IIIa in Unstable Angina: Receptor Suppression Using Integrilin Therapy.

STAT - Stroke Treatment with Ancord Trial.

HOPE - Heart Outcomes Prevention Evaluation.

MORE - Multiple Outcomes of Raloxifene Evaluation.

ACUTE - Assesment of Cardioversion Using Transesophageal Echocardiography.

FANTASTIC - Full ANTicoagulation vs ASpirin and TIClopidine.

I could go on and on with this, using any area of medicine...

I'm personally waiting for the "STUPID" trial, myself... Study To Undermine People's Intelligence Definitively.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by tooki

The gov't does those fake acronyms all the time. It's freaking annoying, it's so cheesy.

tooki

In this case it's mostly cheesy congress critters coming up with these fake acronyms-or going along with their staffers and aides. Annoying is a very mild term for it...

Whatever happened to laws like "The Telecommunications Act of 1974?"

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by ghporter

In this case it's mostly cheesy congress critters coming up with these fake acronyms-or going along with their staffers and aides. Annoying is a very mild term for it...

Whatever happened to laws like "The Telecommunications Act of 1974?"

"TTA 1974?" Not catchy enough.

[Railroader]

Acronyms are often handy, but sometimes it's just overkill. I work with a lot of guys who were in the armed forces at one time and they are amazed that GM uses more acronyms than the federal gov't.

The only one that truly bugs me is when someone says "I will send you a VME about it." When the are talking about voice mail. Why does it bug me? Because it's actually more words to say "V M E" than to say "Voice Mail".

Just a few off the top of my head:
CROP
SPQRC
PM stage 3
MW
EL
MRM
TM
IP
WFSK
CWO

[SomeToast]

Originally Posted by BRussell

My favorite are acronyms that were so obviously designed before the full name itself.

There's a term for that too: Apronym.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by tooki

NASA, laser, radar, AWOL, FUBAR are acronyms because you pronounce them as words.

Dictionary.app says an acronym is:

Originally Posted by Dictionary.app

a word formed from the initial letters of other words (e.g., radar, laser).

It doesn't say anything about pronunciation.

FBI, NSA, SLA are initialisms because you spell out each letter.

Dictionary.app's second definition of initialism is: "an acronym."

[BRussell]

Yeah I don't buy this "FBI isn't an acronym" business. I've always heard then called acronyms even if they're unpronounceable.

[lavar78]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

It doesn't say anything about pronunciation.

I'd argue it's implied. All of the examples given are pronounced a certain way. Obviously, that's not definitive.

Dictionary.app's second definition of initialism is: "an acronym."

Again, some people see it one way and others see it another.

Yeah I don't buy this "FBI isn't an acronym" business. I've always heard then called acronyms even if they're unpronounceable.

I've always seen people write "it's" when they mean "its." So?

[chabig]

Originally Posted by BRussell

Yeah I don't buy this "FBI isn't an acronym" business. I've always heard then called acronyms even if they're unpronounceable.

I agree. Pronounceability has nothing to do with it. And who says FBI isn't pronounceable? I can certainly pronounce it.

Chris

[nonhuman]

It sounds to me like everyone's in agreement and just doesn't realize it.

Obviously initialism is just a sub-category of acronym, and there's undoubtedly another specific name for acronyms that are pronounced as words.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by chabig

And who says FBI isn't pronounceable? I can certainly pronounce it.

Then nobody must be able to understand you when you're talking about the bureau, because the correct reading in English is just saying the names of the letters, because it's initials, not an independent word.

[lavar78]

Originally Posted by nonhuman

It sounds to me like everyone's in agreement and just doesn't realize it.

Obviously initialism is just a sub-category of acronym, and there's undoubtedly another specific name for acronyms that are pronounced as words.

No. AFAIC, initialisms (like CIA) and acronyms (like scuba) are different types of abbreviations. YMMV.

I used different ones for the hell of it.

[Randman]

Originally Posted by chabig

And who says FBI isn't pronounceable? I can certainly pronounce it.

Not if you say Eff-Bee-Eye.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by lavar78

No. AFAIC, initialisms (like CIA) and acronyms (like scuba) are different types of abbreviations. YMMV.

I used different ones for the hell of it.

And yet the dictionary says otherwise. I think initialisms are just a specialized case of acronyms, as are acronyms that are pronounced. And they'd all be specializations of abbreviations.

[Big Mac]

This thread got FUBAR.

[Railroader]

No, it's a SNAFU.

[Cubeoid]

Taastpmogfowis

[chabig]

Originally Posted by Randman

Not if you say Eff-Bee-Eye.

What if you say fee-bee, or fibby? That's pronounceable.

[Randman]

Originally Posted by chabig

What if you say fee-bee, or fibby? That's pronounceable.

But that's not FBI.

[Railroader]

Feebs.

[Oisín]

I stumbled across one last night when I was installing some app:

The readme file was called Readme.rtfd, obviously meaning Rich Text Format Document.

But I thought it fit so much better to make RTFD an abbreviation of Read The F*cking Document

(Okay, it's not really a self-referential acronym, but close enough)




Re the whole acronym vs abbreviation vs initialism, etc.:

The dictionary clearly says that an acronym is “a word formed from the initial letters of other words”. And since the definition of 'word' is “a single distinct meaningful element of speech or writing, used with others (or sometimes alone) to form a sentence and typically shown with a space on either side when written or printed”, it is clear that abbreviations such as FBI and CIA are not acronyms, because they are not words; they are not single elements of speech.

[lavar78]

Originally Posted by nonhuman

And yet the dictionary says otherwise.

Some dictionaries say otherwise. There are many dictionaries and, just like us, they don't always agree. The dictionary and every other english speaker may one day say "it's" is possessive, but I'll still refuse to accept it. I'm stubborn like that.

[Randman]

Many online dictionaries seem to follow a "common usage" rule on many words. And while some matters may indeed become "common usage", it doesn't mean that they are correct. In this instance, Oisín is indeed quite correct.

[chabig]

Originally Posted by Oisín

The dictionary clearly says that an acronym is “a word formed from the initial letters of other words”. And since the definition of 'word' is “a single distinct meaningful element of speech or writing, used with others (or sometimes alone) to form a sentence and typically shown with a space on either side when written or printed”, it is clear that abbreviations such as FBI and CIA are not acronyms, because they are not words; they are not single elements of speech.

Clearly "FBI" is a single distinct meaningful element of writing, used with others (or sometimes alone) to form a sentence and typically shown with a space on either side when written or printed. Therefore, it is an acronym by definition.

[Randman]

Originally Posted by chabig

Clearly "FBI" is a single distinct meaningful element of writing, used with others (or sometimes alone) to form a sentence and typically shown with a space on either side when written or printed. Therefore, it is an acronym by definition.

[removed HUGE image --tooki]