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View Poll Results: How do you feel about Barack Obama’s extensive ties to such a radical group with such
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I don’t have a problem with it, I like ACORN and what they do. 5 votes (10.87%)
Though I recognize the problems with ACORN, I don’t believe Obama’s ties are that significant. 6 votes (13.04%)
Though I recognize that Obama has extensive ties to ACORN, I don’t believe they that bad. 0 votes (0%)
This is something that concerns me. 5 votes (10.87%)
Obama is a liar and a fraud and his affiliation with ACORN is par for the course. 13 votes (28.26%)
Who the hell is ACORN? 10 votes (21.74%)
You really made this a poll? 7 votes (15.22%)
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll
Acorn
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smacintush
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Sep 28, 2008, 02:11 AM
 
How do you feel about Barack Obama’s extensive ties to such a radical group with such a long record of voter fraud and abuse?
Being in debt and celebrating a lower deficit is like being on a diet and celebrating the fact you gained two pounds this week instead of five.
     
Big Mac
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Sep 28, 2008, 02:14 AM
 

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
Chuckit
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Sep 28, 2008, 04:31 AM
 
I wasn't familiar with ACORN, but now that I am, it seems like the story here is basically "OBAMA IS A LIBERAL: Movie at 11!" Like, yeah, it sounds like yet another political wacko group, but I don't see how this makes Obama worse than any other liberal (and that includes John McCain).

As for groups that commit election fraud…well, both of the candidates have ties to either the Republican or Democratic Party.
Chuck
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SpaceMonkey
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Sep 28, 2008, 11:32 AM
 
Seriously. When a conservative writer calls something a "radical liberal," I think it's supposed to be some code word for other conservatives to think "communist" (because they almost never actually define it in their writing) but it just makes me think of the slightly kooky people I knew in college.

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Chongo
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Sep 28, 2008, 12:46 PM
 
ACORN has been under Federal investigation for voter fraud sometime now.

I do find this entry in the ACORN wiki article interesting.
ACORN filed a lawsuit in California seeking to exempt itself from the state's minimum wage of $4.25 per hour in 1995. ACORN alleged in its complaint that "its workers, if paid the minimum wage, will be less empathetic with ACORN's low and moderate income constituency and will therefore be less effective advocates." The court denied ACORN's petition; the denial was sustained on appeal.
45/47
     
turtle777
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Sep 28, 2008, 12:47 PM
 
Look at how the Democracks want to use the money recovered from the $ 700B bailout to pay for slush funds that fund groups that helped to bring about the housing crisis:

What we have here essentially are a pair of government slush funds created in July as part of the Economic Recovery Act that pump tax dollars into the coffers of low-income housing advocacy groups, such as Acorn.
Along with other potential recipients of these funds, including the National Council of La Raza and the Urban League, Acorn has promoted laws like the Community Reinvestment Act, which laid the foundation for the house of cards built out of subprime loans. Thus, we'd be funneling more cash to the groups that helped create the lending mess in the first place.
This isn't the first time this year that Democrats have tried to route money for fixing the housing crisis into the bank accounts of these community activist groups. The housing bill passed by Congress in July also included a tax on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to raise an estimated $600 million annually in grants for these lobbying groups.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122247015469280723.html

Scary sh!t.

-t
     
OldManMac
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Sep 28, 2008, 12:48 PM
 
Oh noes; the poor people are coming to take over the world! I think a large Acorn fell off a tree while that author was under it, and it did some brain damage. Nothing to see here; move along. FTR, I'm not a fan of Obama's either, but iMO he represents, once again, the better of two bad choices.
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Big Mac
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Sep 28, 2008, 02:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
I wasn't familiar with ACORN, but now that I am, it seems like the story here is basically "OBAMA IS A LIBERAL: Movie at 11!" Like, yeah, it sounds like yet another political wacko group, but I don't see how this makes Obama worse than any other liberal (and that includes John McCain).
So you don't think that this left-wing group guilty of voter fraud who Obama is directly tied to is of any consequence to Obama?

As for groups that commit election fraud…well, both of the candidates have ties to either the Republican or Democratic Party.
What proof do you have that either major party is committing election fraud?

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
lpkmckenna
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Sep 28, 2008, 07:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
Acorn’s new goals are municipal “living wage” laws targeting “big-box” stores like Wal-Mart, rolling back welfare reform, and regulating banks — efforts styled as combating “predatory lending.”
Jeez, being against predatory lending. What crazy communist drivel is this?
     
Big Mac
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Sep 28, 2008, 07:19 PM
 
Predatory lending is a stupid appellation for bad loan practices, some of which federal regulation was responsible for. If you can find me one case in which a person was under duress when signing a mortgage, I'll call that predatory lending. Otherwise, using that term is just abusing the language for political gain.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
Chuckit
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Sep 28, 2008, 07:47 PM
 
I think the term "predatory lending" is kind of cognate to "loan shark."
Chuck
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Sep 28, 2008, 08:25 PM
 
People are loaning under duress all the time. Short term and payday loans are definitely what I would call "predatory lending".

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Chongo
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Sep 29, 2008, 12:00 PM
 
ACORN used the Community Reinvestment Act as a hammer against banks. Here is an excelent article from the NY Times, from 1999.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...=&pagewanted=1

from the article:
In addition, banks, thrift institutions and mortgage companies have been pressing Fannie Mae to help them make more loans to so-called subprime borrowers. These borrowers whose incomes, credit ratings and savings are not good enough to qualify for conventional loans, can only get loans from finance companies that charge much higher interest rates -- anywhere from three to four percentage points higher than conventional loans.
ACORN went into overdrive after Bill Clinton changed the CRA in 1993. Clinton was boasting about this on the Clinton Global Initiative web page.

''Fannie Mae has expanded home ownership for millions of families in the 1990's by reducing down payment requirements,'' said Franklin D. Raines, Fannie Mae's chairman and chief executive officer. ''Yet there remain too many borrowers whose credit is just a notch below what our underwriting has required who have been relegated to paying significantly higher mortgage rates in the so-called subprime market.''
45/47
     
Chongo
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Sep 30, 2008, 11:56 AM
 
Here is a compilation of reports on ACORN. ACORN appears to have a pattern of filing copious amounts of voter resignation forms in hopes of overwhelming a county recorder office.
These are all swing states
From Neal's Nuze

Washington
July 26, 2007,Seattle Times
Felony charges filed against 7 in state's biggest case of voter-registration fraud. The defendants, who were paid employees and supervisors of ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now

Michigan
September 14, 2008, Detroit Free Press
Several municipal clerks across the state are reporting fraudulent and duplicate voter registration applications, most of them from a nationwide community activist group working to help low- and moderate-income families.The majority of the problem applications are coming from the group ACORN, Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now ...

Florida
Oct. 13, 2007, PRNewswire
A Florida state attorney is investigating thousands of potentially fraudulent voter registrations associated with the leading organizer of Florida's Amendment 5 ballot initiative. But this is just the tip of an iceberg of illegalities, fraud and contradictions connected to the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) ... Former ACORN Miami-Dade field director Mac Stuart has declared an intent to sue ACORN and has made charges of rampant voter fraud operations. Stuart was employed and specifically tasked by ACORN to generate 103,000 new voter registrations from Dade County. He reports that ACORN threw out Republican registrations while paying for Democratic ones. Stuart also charges that ACORN targeted ex-cons and that he personally set up registration tables outside the Miami police department and Dade County jail.

New Mexico
Sept. 18, 2008, Judicial Watch Blog
This week officials in New Mexico's most populous county (Bernalillo) notified federal authorities that more than 1,000 fraudulent voter registration cards were submitted to the clerk's office. ACORN, which pays workers for each registration, is the prime suspect since it has handled thousands of new voter registrations in New Mexico since January. County workers subsequently discovered that at least 1,100 new registrations list Social Security numbers for people already in the county's database of registered voters, names of registered voters with different birth dates and addresses that don't exist.

Wisconsin
Aug. 6, 2008, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
Criminal investigations could be launched against at least six voter registration workers who tried to add dead, imprisoned or imaginary people to the voter rolls, according to the Milwaukee Election Commission and the organization that employed them. "One woman called us to complain because her husband has been dead for 10 years and a voter registration was submitted," Edman said. In about 12 cases, deputy registrars paid by ACORN were "making people up or registering people that were still in prison," said Carolyn Castore, ACORN's state political director. And in other cases, workers used the same address for numerous voters or used driver's license numbers that did not fit the voters' birth dates, Edman said. But most of the fraud involved submitting duplicate cards for voters who were already registered, and forging the voters' signatures, Castore said.

Ohio
August 27, 2008, The Plain Dealer
A national organization that conducts voter registration drives for low-income people has curtailed its push in Cuyahoga County after the Board of Elections accused its workers of submitting fraudulent registration cards. Board employees said ACORN workers often handed in the same name on a number of voter registration cards, but showing that person living at different addresses. Other times, cards had the same name listed, but a different date of birth. Still another sign of possible fraud showed a number of people living at an address that turned out to be a restaurant. ACORN has submitted about 75,000 voter registration cards to the Cuyahoga board this year.

Pennsylvania
Sept. 18, 2008, The Bulletin: Philadelphia's Family Newspaper
A community organization, with longstanding ties to Barack Obama, has, according to numerous reports, repeatedly run afoul of voter registration laws both locally and nationally. Philadelphia election officials recently accused ACORN, of filing multiple fraudulent voter registrations during the 2008 Pennsylvania primary. The case has been referred to the U.S. Attorney's office, according to Philadelphia Deputy Election Commissioner Fred Voight. Delaware County election officials have made similar allegations against the group, and criminal indictments are pending. This past July 24, Dauphin County detectives offered a $2,000 reward for information about the whereabouts of Luis R. Torres-Serrano, an ACORN worker, who was accused of submitting more than 100 fraudulent voter registrations.

Nevada
July 7,2008, Las Vegas Review Journal
ACORN, which stands for the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, claims to have collected 60,000 new voter registrations in Clark County since February ... Lomax said while he supports the goal of getting more people registered to vote, he sees rampant fraud in the 2,000 to 3,000 registrations ACORN turns in every week.
45/47
     
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Sep 30, 2008, 04:35 PM
 
Acorn is the name of a gang that recently robbed several East Bay restaurants at gun point.
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Sep 30, 2008, 08:56 PM
 
President Bush demanded $440 billion in subprime loans from Fannie Mae in 2002, which lead to the subprime loan crisis and the collapse of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0020618-1.html

And so, therefore, I've called -- yesterday, I called upon the private sector to help us and help the home buyers. We need more capital in the private markets for first-time, low-income buyers. And I'm proud to report that Fannie Mae has heard the call and, as I understand, it's about $440 billion over a period of time. They've used their influence to create that much capital available for the type of home buyer we're talking about here. It's in their charter; it now needs to be implemented. Freddie Mac is interested in helping. I appreciate both of those agencies providing the underpinnings of good capital.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
Ghoser777
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Sep 30, 2008, 09:06 PM
 
Wrong thread?
     
hyteckit
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Sep 30, 2008, 09:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Ghoser777 View Post
Wrong thread?
Nope. It's a response to turtle777, erik, chongo.

ACORN, CRA, subprime loans, Fannie Mae, President Bush.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
G Barnett
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Oct 1, 2008, 02:07 PM
 
Here's a nice counterpoint to all the Conservative talking points hit above. He's done his research and looked at the actual records, rather than spewed out unsubstantiated allegations.
Life is like a clay pigeon -- sooner or later, someone is going to shoot you down and even if they miss you'll still wind up shattered and broken in the end.
     
Wiskedjak
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Oct 1, 2008, 02:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by smacintush View Post
How do you feel about Barack Obama’s extensive ties to such a radical group with such a long record of voter fraud and abuse?
Obama has ties to the Republican party?!?!?
     
Wiskedjak
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Oct 1, 2008, 02:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
What proof do you have that either major party is committing election fraud?
Well, they both have politicians in their ranks ...
     
Chongo
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Oct 12, 2008, 12:10 PM
 
This quite interesting. Barry says he will be calling these groups, if elected, to form the agenda for his administration.
OBAMA CAUGHT SAYING ACORN AND FRIENDS WILL SHAPE HIS PRESIDENTIAL AGENDA
45/47
     
Chongo
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Oct 13, 2008, 08:53 PM
 
Obama is claims he never worked for ACORN in any capacity

from the The Cleveland Leader
Barack Obama's Involvement with ACORN Unearthed, Missing Article Recovered

Submitted by Julie on October 9, 2008 - 9:08pm.
While Barack Obama's connection with the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) has not gone entirely unreported, it has not been fully explained. Most media background pieces simply note Obama's involvement in a 1995 lawsuit on behalf of ACORN. Obama's own website, as well as most major media, fail to reveal the full depth and extent of his relationship with the organization.

Attempts to hide evidence of Obama's involvement with ACORN have included wiping the web clean of potentially damaging articles that had appeared, and were previously publicly accessible. Unfortunately, those behind the attempted cover-up failed to realize that in today's day and age, nothing disappears forever. There also exists another layer of the web, the hidden web, which is full of information included in proprietary scholarly databases where these very same "missing" articles can be easily uncovered
A follow up article on how "fight the smears" web site was altered after the original article.
Obama Campaign Involved in More Cover-Ups in ACORN Scandal
On Thursday we revealed the connection between Barack Obama and Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN), and uncovered a 2004 article that discussed his involvement with the organization which had recently been removed from the web. Today, the cover-ups continue and language on Obama's fightthesmears.com website has been altered in order to make it look like he has been telling the truth about his ACORN associations all along.

Fortunately, we and many others online know how to do a screen capture and how to use a little something called Google Cache.

As of yesterday, Fightthesmears.com stated:

Fact: Barack was never an ACORN trainer and never worked for ACORN in any other capacity.

Sometime on Friday, the website was altered, and the text was changed to state:

Fact: ACORN never hired Obama as a trainer, organizer, or any type of employee.
45/47
     
TheMosco
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Oct 13, 2008, 09:12 PM
 


Guess where McCain is... I will give you a hint...
AXP
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Chongo
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Oct 13, 2008, 09:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by TheMosco View Post


Guess where McCain is... I will give you a hint...
Immigration politics makes for strange bedfellows. ACORN was one of many groups there, including the Arch Diocese of Miami and The Service Employees International Union(uh oh, hanging out with UNION officials!) It still doesn't change the fact the BO is trying to hide the fact he was, and still is, deeply involved with ACORN. His campaign paid an ACORN subsidiary $800k for "get out the vote" work. We are seeing the fruits of those seeds.
45/47
     
TheMosco
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Oct 13, 2008, 09:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Immigration politics makes for strange bedfellows. ACORN was one of many groups there, including the Arch Diocese of Miami and The Service Employees International Union(uh oh, hanging out with UNION officials!) It still doesn't change the fact the BO is trying to hide the fact he was, and still is, deeply involved with ACORN. His campaign paid an ACORN subsidiary $800k for "get out the vote" work. We are seeing the fruits of those seeds.
I wasn't arguing that it changed any facts.
( Last edited by TheMosco; Oct 13, 2008 at 10:39 PM. )
AXP
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Big Mac
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Oct 14, 2008, 12:06 AM
 
I wonder how many other lies are found on Fight the Smears.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
Chongo
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Oct 14, 2008, 01:51 PM
 
Prominent Orlando citizen's form rejected.
45/47
     
Ghoser777
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Oct 14, 2008, 09:49 PM
 
Hmm... at first this seemed like a huge story... and the I've tried to find out more about exactly what's happened. FoxNews is definitely taken the side that ACORN has propagated voter fraud. And at first blush, that sounded really bad. And then I've heard these arguments from Obama and MSNBC that are pretty compelling

1) ACORN was paying individual's to register people to vote
2) Some of the hires wanted to defraud ACORN by making up fraudulent names
3) Oddly enough, this isn't voter fraud, as unless someone walks up with a fake id for Mickey Mouse (or any other fraudulent registered name), they can't vote anyway!

This, of course, is the "liberal" side of the ball, so I'm waiting to hear more about the situation.

I know Obama has a "link" to ACORN - it will be debated without end to what extent it was (and how much it even matters). Of course, John McCain gave a keynote speech at an event sponsored by ACORN, and he praised the organization for it's get out the vote efforts... and this was only 2 years ago.
     
kobi
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Oct 15, 2008, 04:22 PM
 
It's funny how the radical fringe of the Republicans are trying to push the ACORN voter fraud story.

Obama was represented ACORN along with the US Justice Department in a lawsuit. That's a huge connection there isn't it? This ACORN story much like the Ayers, Wright stories the Radical Right are trying to push: a non-issue. There's nothing there. The Republicans once again want to make-up anything that takes the attention away from the issues.

The best part is, that once again John McCain was for them before he was against them in regards to ACORN. Two years ago McCain's buddy buddy with ACORN, sponsoring legislation for them, taking their money for his campaign and even being the keynote speaker at a ACORN event and praising ACORN while doing it. Huh? I guess that means McCain pails around with terrorists, beside G. Gordon Liddy, or sitting on the board of a Anti-Semitic hate group called US Council for World Freedom, or that his campaign transition manager was a lobbyist for Saddam Hussein. Never mind all that he's a POW, remember?

Doesn't McCain vet anybody in his campaign or his friends?

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Here's the video of John McCain as the keynote speaker at the ACORN event. The people in the red shirts are the ACORN members in the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ9wy2MI1NI
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vmarks
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Oct 16, 2008, 12:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Ghoser777 View Post
Hmm... at first this seemed like a huge story... and the I've tried to find out more about exactly what's happened. FoxNews is definitely taken the side that ACORN has propagated voter fraud. And at first blush, that sounded really bad. And then I've heard these arguments from Obama and MSNBC that are pretty compelling

1) ACORN was paying individual's to register people to vote
2) Some of the hires wanted to defraud ACORN by making up fraudulent names
3) Oddly enough, this isn't voter fraud, as unless someone walks up with a fake id for Mickey Mouse (or any other fraudulent registered name), they can't vote anyway!

This, of course, is the "liberal" side of the ball, so I'm waiting to hear more about the situation.

I know Obama has a "link" to ACORN - it will be debated without end to what extent it was (and how much it even matters). Of course, John McCain gave a keynote speech at an event sponsored by ACORN, and he praised the organization for it's get out the vote efforts... and this was only 2 years ago.
In NC, ACORN workers registered people straight out of the phone book - legit info, potentially real voters, now registered two, three or more times by ACORN workers, registered as D when they were really R. Doing these kinds of things invalidates a person's original registration, which can deprive them of their vote. What better way then to invalidate a bunch of R voters? If it happens once among a few employees, that's one thing. If it happens across multiple counties and states with many workers? That's indicative of a leadership problem or fraudulent intent.
     
   
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