[NeXTLoop]

I checked but didn't see this posted. Pretty good comparison....

Heat Comparison...

[bryanmsi]

That was interesting - it looks like the Dell is evacuating heat from the area around the CPU better than the MacBook. Probably the Dell fans come on sooner and stay on longer than the MacBook given Apple's penchant for avoiding fan noise when possible.

My MacBook fans seem to come on at low speed when the CPU temp gets to 160-165 and hits high speed around 175+. I'll bet the Dell fan is always on low speed, and probably comes on full blast before CPU hits 165.

I would love to see a test where the CPU is maxed out on both machines.

[NeXTLoop]

I thought it was interesting that the average temp is only higher by a couple of degrees. In certain spots though, the MacBook is as much as 10+ degrees higher. Those one or two spots are no doubt the source of the majority of the complaints.

[MiniMoe]

I use both a 2.0 Pentium M Dell 8600 and a 2.0 MacBook on my lap in the recliner. It's hard to say, but I think the Dell is warmer. The hottest spot on it is under it's 7200 rpm drive, definitely warmer than under the MacBook's 5400 rpm drive. The Dell is much quicker to spin up its fan, a frequent occurance, and something that seems to happen only as a last resort on the generally much quieter MacBook. The Dell is also quicker to start scaling back its processor speed. I know the Dell isn't a Core Duo, so it's not exactly apples to apples, but that's my experience between them.

[mac128k-1984]

Interesting article. The temperature differences between the two machines are rather small, though the dell seems to evacuate the heat a scosh better.

[amazing]

Averages are misleading: That hotspot on the bottom of the MB is vastly hotter (15 degrees!!!) and very inconvenient. Can't call it a laptop anymore (and let's please not get into the notebook vs laptop controversy, OK, because that's just a red herring. A rose is a rose, even by another name.)

Let's call that hotspot on the bottom a design flaw, and hope that Apple will correct it in the next revision. Add some insulation, improve the airflow/cooling in that corner, whatever it takes.

The first generation 12" PB almost acquired the nickname "Firebook" and it took Apple until the third generation to address the heat problem, so hopefully they'll react a little faster with the MB.

[CrusaderSean]

Not surprised top left corner on macbook is significantly hotter. I've been complaining about it since day 1. My macbook is plugged into AC power all the time, so that corner gets even hotter. The other day I decided to run on battery for an hour. I was quite surprised that my average cpu temperature was lower by 10C (went from 65C to 55C).

[StiZeven]

I 'had' a MacBook for a week. I've never owned a hotter running computer! I was actually quite surprised but also incredibly disappointed. On a cold flat service elevated with a CoolPad Pro, the bottom of the case got so hot you could barely touch it even for a second (while say - ripping CDs in iTunes).

It's one thing for the bottom to be scorching where you can't touch it, but it's another when you're typing and your palms sweat and the heat coming from and above the keyboard and the warmth of the palm rests interfere with your 'Mac Experience'. The internal heat would range from 55c - 75c/80c (where the fan would finally kick in). I didn't want to return the MacBook as it had everything else that I was looking for in a portable, but there was no way I would be able to use it in that state. This was a week 25 BlackBook.

Since I am a multiplatform user (which would have made the MacBook perfect), I am also 'evaluating' a (small) Dell XPS M1210 with the same 2GHz CoreDuo, 2GB of RAM, 120GB 54k HD and discreet NVIDIA GPU. The rigid magnesium alloy composite bottom is warm at worst while the internal temps range from 35c - 55/60c. The near silent (single) fan kicks in at 50/55c and shuts at 35c. Having played with these two machines side by side, I find this article interesting.

In this 'MacBook vs. Dell Latitude' comparison, both units have one single fan each - so I am not sure what the author means by "but I remind you that the MacBook lacks cooling fans that are built into the Dell". While the Dell is a bit thicker than the MacBook, there is no denying that heat is a problem on the MacBook.

I am no expert, but I think the heat problem is a combination of the following:

- OS X doesn't fully utilize the throttling/power/efficiency functions of the CoreDuo like XP does.
- The MacBook heating system doesn't properly trigger the fans to kick in until it is WAY too hot.
- The plastic materials used on the MacBook will get hotter versus a magnesium alloy composite.

I find it ironic that Apple went the Intel route to avoid heat and efficiency problems with the G5 when all of the above (IMHO) are making their Intel Portables run hot and with so-so battery life. I guess the good news is that this is all fixable once OS X is updated to behave better with the Intel chipset, they tweak the cooling system so it actually cools things down, and perhaps use materials that don't feel so unbearably hot to the touch when the CPU does get up there in temps. For this reason, I sent back the MacBook in hopes of Apple addressing all these issues. I think it will be worth the wait.

[rhashem]

Originally Posted by CrusaderSean

Not surprised top left corner on macbook is significantly hotter. I've been complaining about it since day 1. My macbook is plugged into AC power all the time, so that corner gets even hotter. The other day I decided to run on battery for an hour. I was quite surprised that my average cpu temperature was lower by 10C (went from 65C to 55C).

Yeah, that's what I've noticed too. With the power plugged in, the Macbook is not really lap friendly. On the battery, it's actually quite reasonable, especially if the CPU is clocked down. As a result, I tend to only use the Macbook on AC while its on a desk (all day at work). When I'm not working on the weekends or the evenings, I always use the battery, which is reasonable given that I get close to four hours with it.

[rhashem]

Originally Posted by StiZeven

I find it ironic that Apple went the Intel route to avoid heat and efficiency problems with the G5 when all of the above (IMHO) are making their Intel Portables run hot and with so-so battery life. I guess the good news is that this is all fixable once OS X is updated to behave better with the Intel chipset, they tweak the cooling system so it actually cools things down, and perhaps use materials that don't feel so unbearably hot to the touch when the CPU does get up there in temps. For this reason, I sent back the MacBook in hopes of Apple addressing all these issues. I think it will be worth the wait.

First of all, I suggest you go to the Apple Store and try out another Macbook. It gets hot, but I've never had it cause my palms to sweat, and on battery power, its quite lap-worthy.

Second, you're absolutely right about the downclocking bit. The Core Duo 2.0 really should clock lower than 1.5 GHz.

Third, you're wrong about the polycarbonate. Aluminum will actually feel hotter than polycarbonate at the same temperature, because aluminum is a hell of a lot better at conducting heat from itself to your hand. Polycarbonate is largely a thermal insulator, while aluminum is a thermal conductor.

The single biggest problem with the Macbook is that it doesn't run its fan until it gets really hot. Having it come on at a more reasonable temperature would do wonders for the Macbook's temperature. People fail to appreciate just how much even a little bit of airflow can cool things down.

[alex_kac]

My MBP 17 rarely gets too hot to put on my lap, even with Parallels running full VS 2005 compiles in the background and loads of stuff happening in the foreground. Certainly no hotter than the PB 15'' it replaced.

But one thing I have used that keeps ALL my laptops VERY cool (as in you barely feel any heat at all) is a nice laptop cooler from Targus at the bottom. With the fans on it just pushes that heat away from the case. I also had to use it on my Dell XPS as it was too hot otherwise.

[StiZeven]

Originally Posted by rhashem

First of all, I suggest you go to the Apple Store and try out another Macbook. It gets hot, but I've never had it cause my palms to sweat, and on battery power, its quite lap-worthy.

Second, you're absolutely right about the downclocking bit. The Core Duo 2.0 really should clock lower than 1.5 GHz.

Third, you're wrong about the polycarbonate. Aluminum will actually feel hotter than polycarbonate at the same temperature, because aluminum is a hell of a lot better at conducting heat from itself to your hand. Polycarbonate is largely a thermal insulator, while aluminum is a thermal conductor.

The single biggest problem with the Macbook is that it doesn't run its fan until it gets really hot. Having it come on at a more reasonable temperature would do wonders for the Macbook's temperature. People fail to appreciate just how much even a little bit of airflow can cool things down.

If the MacBook had good battery life, I guess I'd buy the "it's lap worthy" bit. But, at under 3 hours (with real world usage) and with reduced CPU power - what's the point? Also, your MacBook clearly runs a bit cooler than others, so why question those who don't like the heat?

I have my PCs rigged so that they dynamically throttle on the fly whether on battery or AC so there is no (or little) difference in heat/speed whether it's on the go or charging. The CPU is supposed to idle at very low speeds and dynamically jump up (on the fly) to higher speed when the demand is there. Mac OS X doesn't know how to deal with this yet.

You are going on about Aluminum - but I was not talking about Aluminum. I was talking about polycarbonate versus magnesium alloy. The magnesium feels MUCH cooler to the touch when things heat up on my Dell versus the plastic on my Mac. You're right about Aluminum and the way it conducts heat, but not sure how that is relevant to MacBooks.

I also do not want to play the MacBook lottery where I need to order and return one after the other until I find the one that doesn't run hot. When I hear reports that Apple has possibly addressed this heat issue by new owners saying their late models are running cool, then perhaps I'll bite again.

Apple simply needs to tweak the cooling system on the MacBook as there is something wrong if it takes 65+ C to make the fan go on. Also, they need to make OS X utilize the features that make the CoreDuo what it is, and why it is the mobile choice of CPU in the first place.

[bryanmsi]

Originally Posted by StiZeven

Apple simply needs to tweak the cooling system on the MacBook as there is something wrong if it takes 65+ C to make the fan go on. Also, they need to make OS X utilize the features that make the CoreDuo what it is, and why it is the mobile choice of CPU in the first place.

You're right on the money with this comment, I believe. When that fan finally does come on, the CPU in my Macbook sheds 15 degrees or more within 10 seconds and the temps stay down until it goes back off. So the heat evacuation process does work well...it just needs to be activated sooner.

If Apple just lowered the thermal threshold for fan activation (as they seem to have done in the MacBook Pros), I believe much of the heat complaining would stop. My office-mate has a Dell laptop, and I can hear that fan running virtually non-stop. Its much louder than the MacBook fan. If the fan was always on in the MacBook at low speed, you'd barely be able to hear it and the temps would stay lower much longer.

Still, I think much of this heat issue is overblown.

[Dillon-K]

Well, being a podcaster, I would *much* rather have something that avoids noise, but gets a little hotter. .

[CrusaderSean]

So why can't Apple add an option to allow users to tweak fan turn on speed and cpu throttling? I know there's a "better battery life" option in energy saver, but that doesn't allow you to select specific GHz to clock the cpu at.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Dillon-K

Well, being a podcaster, I would *much* rather have something that avoids noise, but gets a little hotter. .

But when you're recording your podcasts, is the book sitting on a desk or your lap?
I think this article should have also put up a decibel comparison.

[seaofcrap]

I am a first time laptop user, so the heat was quite a shock for me.

[harrisjamieh]

Over the past 2 weeks I have been using a range of G4 PowerBooks... from old TiBooks to the newest AlBooks.. and I can honestly say that my MacBook gets no hotter than any of those do. Infact, my MacBook is pretty cool at the front of the palm rest, whereas all the powerbooks were hot all over.

I really don't see the heat as a problem... its only really been brought up because it is being compared to the iBooks seeing as the MBs replaced the iBooks. Compared to the G4 PBs, there really is little difference..