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fourstarcltv · Jul 17, 2002, 07:27 AM

unfortunately, thinksecret's report turned out to be true.

<a href="http://mac.com/1/mac_faq.html" target="_blank">http://mac.com/1/mac_faq.html</a>

here's hoping this isn't a sign of things to come during the keynote in a few hours time.

InterfaceGuy · Jul 17, 2002, 07:34 AM

This is very disturbing to me. I was hoping I could at least keep my e-mail without having to pay. First they took away the free QuickTime features and made us pay and now are doing the same with iTools.

Jul 17, 2002, 07:38 AM

I wonder if they'll setup an email forwader for all the people who will be jumping ship?

I will not pay $50 or $100 a year for an email address I've had free for what, almost 2 years or so? Screw it - Hotmail or Yahoo, here I come!

I'm thinking this is going to backfire on them - hope Steve likes the taste of shoes...

-s'fit
[email protected]

simonjames · Jul 17, 2002, 07:41 AM

just great - iTools is so friggin slow here in Australia - as if I am going to fork out that much money for snail pace service.

juanvaldes · Jul 17, 2002, 07:47 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by InterfaceGuy:
This is very disturbing to me. I was hoping I could at least keep my e-mail without having to pay. First they took away the free QuickTime features and made us pay and now are doing the same with iTools.<hr /></blockquote>I agree, keep a basic email service...****.

daftpig · Jul 17, 2002, 07:54 AM

....

*more than speechless*

Worst. Episode. Ever. · Jul 17, 2002, 07:57 AM

This. Sucks. Royally. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

Cipher13 · Jul 17, 2002, 07:58 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by simonjames:
just great - iTools is so friggin slow here in Australia - as if I am going to fork out that much money for snail pace service.<hr /></blockquote>Not only that, but it's $200 worth...

Shame · Jul 17, 2002, 08:03 AM

$Apple

Mithras · Jul 17, 2002, 08:07 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />
Q: Can I pay monthly?

No. The annual membership fee must be paid at one time.

Q: What happens to my data if I choose not to join .Mac

Following the 60-day trial period, any home pages, Backup or other files stored in iDisk and messages left on the email server will be removed.
<hr /></blockquote>This is the dumbest idea I've ever heard of.
Instead of .Mac being a compelling reason to buy a Mac, it will be a reason to stay away. I was about to urge my parents to buy an iMac so that they could easily share photos on homepage with iPhoto. "It's worth the extra cost of the Mac for the ease of use," I explained. But now it isn't even worth that!

Plus, each email account is another $100, so you can't share 1 iDisk between a couple of memberes of a family.

I guarantee that in six months we'll read articles about Apple being 'disappointed' in .Mac adoption rate.

juanvaldes · Jul 17, 2002, 08:08 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Mithras:
[QUOTE]
[b]Plus, each email account is another $100, so you can't share 1 iDisk between a couple of memberes of a family.<hr /></blockquote>Go read it again.

Mithras · Jul 17, 2002, 08:10 AM

Of course, at least there's this:

<blockquote>quote:<hr />
Q: Can I still send iCards for free?

Yes. Standard iCards may be sent without a .Mac membership. Custom iCards using your own images will require membership.
<hr /></blockquote>I'm signing up just for the custom iCards! Wheee!!

jcarr · Jul 17, 2002, 08:10 AM

Well, on the one hand I am pleased to see that Apple is adding more feature rich tools and more storage space in the paid .Mac service, but I agree that there should be a no-frills 1MB or 2MB .mac email address. If a user wants to use iDisk, Virex, and the backup service, the price almost seems worthwhile, but those of us that just use the email are SOL apparently.

At the very least, Apple should give new Mac customers a free year of service, not merely a free 30-day trial. I would think all users would be entitled to a 30 day trial period (even if Apple picks the screen name, e.g. [email protected], etc.), but if I kick down $1000+ for a new system, I think I am entitled to a free year of .Mac service.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

Mithras · Jul 17, 2002, 08:13 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by juanvaldes:
Go read it again.<hr /></blockquote>my bad. An extra $10 for a 5mb, non-upgradable account. I feel sooo much better now.

You know, they should read Marketing 101. Even if the price is $100 a year, they really should be calling it $8 / month, which sounds slightly less awful.

SunSeeker · Jul 17, 2002, 08:13 AM

Truly Disappointing

agentz · Jul 17, 2002, 08:14 AM

I think its a really dumb idea for Apple to charge $99/year for .Mac membership and agree completely with everyone else who said that they should still offer a basic no-frills service for free, say 2-5Mb of mail and 10-20Mb of web storage.

Uptake may be nowhere near as high as Apple anticiaptes...

amsalpemkcus · Jul 17, 2002, 08:16 AM

Somebody call the proctologist!

<img src="http://rosecity.net/al_gore/head_up_ass.jpg" alt=" - " />

starman · Jul 17, 2002, 08:20 AM

That sucks.

It's too expensive, and I agree that it's not a compelling reason for people to acutally buy a Mac. Sh*t, Dell gives you 6 months AOL for free, Apple gives you crap for a 60 day trial period.

It's bad enough Apple's hardware is behind the times. Now they're charging for .Mac. I'm off to MacWorld now. Hopefully this won't be my last.

Mike

Troll · Jul 17, 2002, 08:27 AM

I always thought ".mac" sounded too much like ".net". Now it's confirmed - Apple is acting far too much like Microsoft these days.

This really sucks. I'm living on the other side of the planet from home, so I use the homepage service to post movies and pics. All my friends would ask me how I did my website and I'd say "Get a Mac." Now I'd have to say, "You have to buy a really expensive computer and then buy a really expensive service." Merde - I have to build a new website, get hold of all of everyone and give them a new url!

I'm going to check my licence agreements and documentation that I got with OSX and OS9. Actually, I think I binned that stuff. Anyone know where I can get hold of the licence agreement? I'm sure they advertised iTools as part of the package I've already paid for.

!!!! BOYCOTT .MAC !!!!

The Godfather · Jul 17, 2002, 08:32 AM

I predict that it won't be Steve who will be giving the bad news. It'll be one of his lackies at the end of the keynote.

Ken_F2 · Jul 17, 2002, 08:36 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Q: Why is Apple charging for iTools?

Providing email and storage solutions for millions of customers comes at a considerable cost. In addition, using the Internet today requires more storage space, better ways to share, and new ways to protect your important files. To continue providing iTools services as well as a new set of must-haves for computing on the Internet, Apple is charging an annual fee.<hr /></blockquote>As has been said before, and as the press release says, iTools could not continue to remain free in its current form. When there were just 20,000 users, the costs to maintain iTools were reasonable. But now there are millions of OSX users, and there will only be more with the release of 10.2. The service now costs Apple serious money. For the integration you get with .Mac and OSX and the iApps, I think the service is well worth the $99. Sure, you could buy space somewhere else, but it won't be seamlessly integrated with OSX and iApps.

I fully expect Apple to sell/bundle this service as an option with new Mac purchases.

SunSeeker · Jul 17, 2002, 08:38 AM

**** It, I'm just gonna have to do it, I would have to update my website and business cards and I would find it less straightforward to switch isp as I can now as their email would be my only other low cost option.
I guess I could setup my own <a href="http://www.pi55edatapple.com" target="_blank">www.pi55edatapple.com</a> webspace

$280AUD/year OUCH

(itools + 4 email addresses)

<sarcasm>If they would include things like antivirus and backup with 100mb of web space it might be worth doing</sarcasm>

I guess I will have to put off that new imac purchase for a while <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

[ 07-17-2002, 08:42 AM: Message edited by: SunSeeker ]

daftpig · Jul 17, 2002, 08:47 AM

I've always wondered if Apple's interested in the great big economic pie called Asia. After this news, it apparently isn't interested at all.

How are Asian customers going to pay something like US$100 per year?

If the projections that China will be the superpower from this century onwards and that China will be the biggest piece of economic pie in the world are true, then at Apple's rate of decision making, I can sadly say that Apple, the enterprise, will not last long. If Apple fails to secure or attract enough users in China or Asia itself, which person would, in the name of good business ease, be buying to use a Macintosh?

Apple's best market in Asia, Japan, is in economic doldrums for till God knows WHEN. Singapore, though small, has one of the highest GDPs in the world but receives sh*tty mac support by courtesy of the lacklustre efforts of Apple Asia, does NOT have many mac users... (so much so that meeting a mac user is sometimes a REVELATION in itself, most of us do become very good friends.) China? Err... what's US$100 converted to RMB gonna be??

ringo · Jul 17, 2002, 08:49 AM

Hmmm... Apple's stock price was down this morning in pre-market trading. I guess they want to find new sources of revenue and everything, but a yearly fee? Even my domain host doesn't make me pay by the year, and they provide many more services than .mac .

I'll be surprised if the number of people willing to pay are as large as whatever business plan they cooked up for this move. Those "Millions of users" may be "dozens" by the time everything is said and done.

sucks.

Ken_F2 · Jul 17, 2002, 09:05 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />How are Asian customers going to pay something like US$100 per year? <hr /></blockquote>The same way they afford $2000 Macs. Dot Mac is only 5% of the cost.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Hmmm... Apple's stock price was down this morning in pre-market trading. I guess they want to find new sources of revenue and everything, but a yearly fee? Even my domain host doesn't make me pay by the year, and they provide many more services than .mac .<hr /></blockquote>No you don't. With .Mac, you get seamless integration with OSX, and seamless integration with iApps. Apple is pushing Mac developers to incorporate .Mac support into their applications as well. The .Mac service will be more and more integrated with the OS and iApps in the future. You don't get that with any other service.

No doubt, Apple hopes to sell a subscription to .Mac with the sale of every new Mac. Those yearly subscription renewals should become a significant source of revenue for Apple, helping them to to produce better and better Macs, iApps, and services. I fully expect Apple to offer even more services with .Mac in the future.

[ 07-17-2002, 09:08 AM: Message edited by: Ken_F2 ]

ringo · Jul 17, 2002, 09:17 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ken_F2:
No you don't. With .Mac, you get seamless integration with OSX, and seamless integration with iApps. Apple is pushing Mac developers to incorporate .Mac support into their applications as well. The .Mac service will be more and more integrated with the OS and iApps in the future. You don't get that with any other service.

No doubt, Apple hopes to sell a subscription to .Mac with the sale of every new Mac. Those yearly subscription renewals should become a significant source of revenue for Apple, helping them to to produce better and better Macs, iApps, and services. I fully expect Apple to offer even more services with .Mac in the future.<hr /></blockquote>Good points, maybe more relevant to Apples target customers: those intimidated by technology. But my host's services are already OSX compatible, perfectly integrated with Terminal <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

I won't pay today for integration that may happen in the future.

Selling at Point of Sale means adding an extra $100 to the price of a Mac right off the bat. If I use that mac for six years, then it means adding $600 to the price of the mac.

They will have to sell the value of .mac pretty hard...I just don't see it right now.

jholmes · Jul 17, 2002, 09:27 AM

The bigtime stupid thing is that for not a lot more you can set up your own domain and mail accounts with FTYP space and webspace thru pair.

I think the set up is like $75 initally and $10 a month to keep it going. Yeah that's more than a $99 a year deal but it's yours and you can do with it as you please.

Apple often does really dumb things from a consumer standpoint. But if it's costing them a fortune now to give it away, and just a few people stick around to pay for it, then it's a win for the bean counters. To heck with what those pesky customers think about it.

theolein · Jul 17, 2002, 10:00 AM

I was trying to decide between a new powerbook G4 and an IBM Thinkpad A31. Apple has, I think, decided for me. This is what I mailed to Apple:

I would like to tell a little story about myself and why Apple is losing me as a customer and why I will be informing as many people as possible of my decision. It is up to you to read this, but if you attempt to suppress it, I will only try harder to inform as many people of my decision and the underlying reasons.

I have been a Mac user for many years now. Since 1991 in fact. I have been a solid supporter of Apple through all of the bad years. I bought the Public Beta of OSX and a copy of OSX when it came out. I was amazed as the supple beauty, power and simplicity of OSX. I love the Aqua GUI and the unix underpinnings. I found the integration of iDisk on the Desktop seamless. I defended Apple's high prices against questions from interested x86 users who were wondering why exactly Apple hardware was so expensive. They also pointed out that there is not exactly a multitude of Software available for Mac OSX. I pointed out certain added value items you get when you own a Mac, such as 20MB free online storage with iDisk, an email address that works, a free homepage and desktop integration of the iDisk.

But..

Today I read that Apple will be charging $100 a year for this service, and has added functionality to it in an attempt to sell it to the Mac public. Let us look at what Apple claims. Apple claims that it costs too much to provide iTools as is. I noticed yesterday that Apple is profitable. Apple certainly has not lost any customers due to iTools. Apple claims that the various services cost:
Anti-virus: $50
* Backup: $40
* 100MB of online storage: $60
* 15MB of email storage, forwarding and POP/IMAP access: $40+
* Home page creation and hosting: $60

I have had my own remotely hosted domain (in the USA) in the recent past where I had:
*100MB of file storage
*10MB of email storage
*15 email addresses using IMAP
*My own top level domain
*Full Linux functionality i.e. PHP,Perl,MySQL
*SFTP access
*SSH access.
*Vastly improved transfer speeds compared to homepage.mac.com or iDisk

I had all of this for less than $80/year.

I am not very well off, but have been saving to buy a new Powerbook G4 and software. I had the feeling that Apple was worth it as they seemed to provide me with more value for my money, especially in times when the economy is as bad as it is.

Microsoft has been criticized heavily for it's subscription plans and Apple seemed to not want to try to abuse it's customer base. With the fact that x86 machines are much cheaper than Apple's and the choice in software much greater on Windows there now comes this final straw, it seems, that makes Apple as much an abusive company as Microsoft ever was.

If this plan stays as is within the next two weeks when I purchase my new computer I will buy an x86 machine and stop worrying about Apple's feeble chances in the software market.

scottiB · Jul 17, 2002, 10:00 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I predict that it won't be Steve who will be giving the bad news. It'll be one of his lackies at the end of the keynote. <hr /></blockquote>Steve's serving it up right now. Hopefully he can dodge the rotten fruit.

nana2 · Jul 17, 2002, 10:06 AM

<a href="http://www.pair.com/pair/shared/ftp.html" target="_blank">http://www.pair.com/pair/shared/ftp.html</a>

You can get a 100MB FTP account at pair.com, cost to setup one domain and account is $20, you get one mailbox, then it's $5.95 per month if you include the virtual domain at $1 per month.

<a href="http://www.pair.com/pair/shared/basic.html" target="_blank">http://www.pair.com/pair/shared/basic.html</a>

If you want up to 10 malboxes you can go for the basic account, domain + setup = $25, and it's $9.95 per month. You get SSH login too. You can upgrade from any lower account for the difference in setup fees. Actually if you claim you are a hosting "Refugee" i.e. unhappy with your current host I believe you get free setup.

$100 bucks for .mac email is mind bogglingly retarded.

Ken_F2 · Jul 17, 2002, 10:11 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Microsoft has been criticized heavily for it's subscription plans and Apple seemed to not want to try to abuse it's customer base. With the fact that x86 machines are much cheaper than Apple's and the choice in software much greater on Windows there now comes this final straw, it seems, that makes Apple as much an abusive company as Microsoft ever was.

If this plan stays as is within the next two weeks when I purchase my new computer I will buy an x86 machine and stop worrying about Apple's feeble chances in the software market.<hr /></blockquote>Microsoft is just going to do the same thing--with pay services--next year. Will you switch back to Apple then?

Nobody is making you subscribe to .Mac. But integration of online services (of which mail, iChat, iDisk are only the first of many) with the operating system and applications is the future. The blurring of the lines between local and network/Internet services is the future. Apple can see that, and so can Microsoft. You need to think of it as just one more cost of computing. By not subscribing to .Mac, you'll be missing out on much of the functionality offered by the OS and iApps in the future.

Ken_F2 · Jul 17, 2002, 10:15 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />$100 bucks for .mac email is mind bogglingly retarded. <hr /></blockquote>The pair.com deal doesn't sound bad...

But do they offer full integration with the OSX UI? Do they offer full integration with current and future versions of iTunes, iPhoto, and iMovie? Do they offer full integration with Macintosh applications from other developers, which Apple is pushing to support/integrate .Mac support and functionality?

You people are comparing apples and oranges. The .Mac service "just works" -- those other services do not.

theolein · Jul 17, 2002, 12:20 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ken_F2:
]Microsoft is just going to do the same thing--with pay services--next year. Will you switch back to Apple then?

Nobody is making you subscribe to .Mac. But integration of online services (of which mail, iChat, iDisk are only the first of many) with the operating system and applications is the future. The blurring of the lines between local and network/Internet services is the future. Apple can see that, and so can Microsoft. You need to think of it as just one more cost of computing. By not subscribing to .Mac, you'll be missing out on much of the functionality offered by the OS and iApps in the future.<hr /></blockquote>My point in supporting Apple up until now has been twofold: I got better quality and added value for the higher price, lower performance and smaller software choice available to me. That added value just dissappeared today, or at least a part of it did, and added to this I am now expected to pay for that value. Apple was for me a company that did not try to too hard to break it's customers banks, as does microsoft, with per seat licences expensive tools etc. Free developer tools and Unix are part of what makes the Mac worth it to me and I love Aqua. On top of this Apple's machines are of high quality compared to most PC fare. But IBM machines are excellent as well in quality. Quality is very important in bad economic times because new equipment is fewer and further between. So I'm getting an IBM Thinkpad A31 with Win2000 and Linux. I'm just plainly tired of this will-they won't-they Apple circus. I need a computer to do my job. I don't need iTunes, an iPod, iCal, iSync, iPhoto, iMovie, iChat or any iApp. iTools was useful for quick transfering of files.

Apples stock has fallen two whole points since Jobs got off the stage. Why? He failed to address those things which are getting more and more pressing all the time. No faster processors. No Office alternative if MS kills Office development on the Mac (They won't but they could). Even if I did buy a new Mac, I would now defintely not buy a new one before August, 24th when the $129 OSX 10.2 will be preloaded on new Macs. Unless Apple *immediately* mentions free upgrades to 10.2 for new Mac buyers, there is simply no incentive for anyone to buy a new Mac unil then.

theolein · Jul 17, 2002, 12:26 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ken_F2:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />$100 bucks for .mac email is mind bogglingly retarded. <hr /></blockquote>The pair.com deal doesn't sound bad...

But do they offer full integration with the OSX UI? Do they offer full integration with current and future versions of iTunes, iPhoto, and iMovie? Do they offer full integration with Macintosh applications from other developers, which Apple is pushing to support/integrate .Mac support and functionality?

You people are comparing apples and oranges. The .Mac service "just works" -- those other services do not.<hr /></blockquote>My last domain that I had cost me about $80 a year for 100MB, 10MB mail, 15 email accounts, vim, emacs, PHP,Perl, MySQL, SSH and SFTP. It worked very well and was quite a bit faster than iDisk has ever been when moving data. No it wasn't intergrated as iDisk is but it offered me more functionality.

Hawkeye_a · Jul 17, 2002, 12:51 PM

Goodbye Apple Computer Inc. Hello MSApple. Lets see, we announced iTools as free, so what do we do abou it now that we have baited the hooks. Lets change the name of the service to mimic MS(there's nothing .Mac about iTools), and charge for it. ...give stuff off for free until people start to depend on it, and then they have no whereelse to go, thats how you make money, thats how you survive.....

Apple charges a premium for it's hardware, and youd expect the Apps and functionality to be free. but now after you get your $2000 iMac out of the box, u have to pay $100 for iTools(i refuse to use .Mac). whats next ? $50 for iTunes 4 ?

M�lum · Jul 17, 2002, 01:00 PM

Goodbye dreamers, hello reality.
It seems it's a hard day for those that thought this kind of services would stay free for ever. But it was/is rather naif to think it would have stayed free.

I happily paid for the services just now and thank Apple for have given this service for free for the last few years.

maxelson · Jul 17, 2002, 01:17 PM

Well, I can't give up my mac.com address. It is too attached to my professional life. I have had it since iTools started, so I got no real choice. Also, Malum's right. It's been free how long? And at least they upped the features. I'll pay, but I am going to stretch the buck by waiting 60 days. No need I should ditch my 2 free months, right?

clod · Jul 17, 2002, 01:18 PM

This sucks! All I use is iDisk and Mac.com email. Can't they offer a "free" service? They were probably planning this for a long time. iTools used to be a selling point for Macs. Now it's a turnoff. iTools was one of the reasons I got OS 9. I hope they become "disapointed" with their .Mac sales.

Developer · Jul 17, 2002, 01:22 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ken_F2:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />$100 bucks for .mac email is mind bogglingly retarded. <hr /></blockquote>The pair.com deal doesn't sound bad...

But do they offer full integration with the OSX UI? Do they offer full integration with current and future versions of iTunes, iPhoto, and iMovie? <hr /></blockquote>Does Apple offer an API for full integration of other services into th OSX UI?

daimoni · 01:50 PM

.

daimoni · 01:50 PM

.

Dan Szwarc · Jul 17, 2002, 01:50 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by juanvaldes:
Go read it again.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

my bad. An extra $10 for a 5mb, non-upgradable account. I feel sooo much better now. <hr /></blockquote>I read that you can get an "extra" mac.com email address for $10 a year, NOT an email ONLY address for ONLY $10 a year.

From Apple:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Additional Mac.com Email accounts include 5MB of storage and cost $10 per year. There is no additional storage available for email-only accounts, and the photo signature feature is not available.
<hr /></blockquote>

[ 07-17-2002, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: Dan Szwarc ]

OoklaTheMok · Jul 17, 2002, 01:52 PM

I read somewhere that in 10.2 you can mount FTP and SFTP volumes in the Finder. True or false? If so, what makes iDisk better, if I don't use iApps?

Here's my feedback letter, submitted at <a href="http://www.apple.com/feedback/mac/gtm.html" target="_blank">http://www.apple.com/feedback/mac/gtm.html</a> and mailed to Steve.

----------------------------------------

Very disappointed that there is no basic service

I have been a satisfied iTools user since it was introduced. I switched to the mac.com email address after being led to believe that it would be available indefinitely. I very much regret that I will have to seek other options now. I would not really mind a SMALL fee such as $24 a year for very limited use, but $49 or $100 for what I'd use it for is preposterous.

All I ever did was use email and store a few small files on my iDisk.

I do not need nor want 15MB of email space. 5MB never gets full before I download the mail to my hard disk on which 5MB is a trivial amount.

I do not need nor want 100MB of iDisk space. 5 or 10 MB would be nice and sufficient but if all I could have was email that would be just fine with me.

I do not need nor want the iDisk utility. This "benefit" is not something I would ever use.

I do not need nor want Backup. You may say it's a $40 value but let market prices decide that. Don't include it in a package when it's not wanted and justify jacking up the price because of it.

I definitely do not need nor want Anti-Virus software. Perhaps when a single virus exists for Mac OS X I would have a desire for such software. Don't include it in a package when it's not wanted and justify jacking up the price because of it.

I do not need nor want home page creation...I can use Mozilla and BBEdit Light just fine for that if I feel like it. All I want is email and it would be nice to have a place to put up a couple pictures easily.

I definitely do not need nor want iCards. I have never used them and wouldn't consider them any valid reason for charging me money. Why pay for something I'm not going to ever use?

If I did want to get a website and greater web space, there are plenty of hosting options offering greater space for far less money. But this isn't something I'll be interested in anytime soon.

iTools used to be a great part about buying a mac. Now it has nothing to do with buying a mac, as it's not automatic and you can even use it on Windows. It used to make life easier, but now I must go back to the annoying email grind.

So what if iTools itself was a money-losing operation in and of itself? It made macs more attractive and simple as a whole than PCs. It was a major selling point for the mac platform. Now the selling point and advantage has utterly vanished. Unless this new policy changes, .Mac will be largely abandoned.

Frankly I expected Jaguar to be $129 but this I never expected. Hopefully enough people will let you know how they feel.

theolein · Jul 17, 2002, 02:44 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by OoklaTheMok:
I read somewhere that in 10.2 you can mount FTP and SFTP volumes in the Finder. True or false? If so, what makes iDisk better, if I don't use iApps?

Here's my feedback letter, submitted at <a href="http://www.apple.com/feedback/mac/gtm.html" target="_blank">http://www.apple.com/feedback/mac/gtm.html</a> and mailed to Steve.

----------------------------------------

Very disappointed that there is no basic service

I have been a satisfied iTools user since it was introduced. I switched to the mac.com email address after being led to believe that it would be available indefinitely. I very much regret that I will have to seek other options now. I would not really mind a SMALL fee such as $24 a year for very limited use, but $49 or $100 for what I'd use it for is preposterous.

All I ever did was use email and store a few small files on my iDisk.

I do not need nor want 15MB of email space. 5MB never gets full before I download the mail to my hard disk on which 5MB is a trivial amount.

I do not need nor want 100MB of iDisk space. 5 or 10 MB would be nice and sufficient but if all I could have was email that would be just fine with me.

I do not need nor want the iDisk utility. This "benefit" is not something I would ever use.

I do not need nor want Backup. You may say it's a $40 value but let market prices decide that. Don't include it in a package when it's not wanted and justify jacking up the price because of it.

I definitely do not need nor want Anti-Virus software. Perhaps when a single virus exists for Mac OS X I would have a desire for such software. Don't include it in a package when it's not wanted and justify jacking up the price because of it.

I do not need nor want home page creation...I can use Mozilla and BBEdit Light just fine for that if I feel like it. All I want is email and it would be nice to have a place to put up a couple pictures easily.

I definitely do not need nor want iCards. I have never used them and wouldn't consider them any valid reason for charging me money. Why pay for something I'm not going to ever use?

If I did want to get a website and greater web space, there are plenty of hosting options offering greater space for far less money. But this isn't something I'll be interested in anytime soon.

iTools used to be a great part about buying a mac. Now it has nothing to do with buying a mac, as it's not automatic and you can even use it on Windows. It used to make life easier, but now I must go back to the annoying email grind.

So what if iTools itself was a money-losing operation in and of itself? It made macs more attractive and simple as a whole than PCs. It was a major selling point for the mac platform. Now the selling point and advantage has utterly vanished. Unless this new policy changes, .Mac will be largely abandoned.

Frankly I expected Jaguar to be $129 but this I never expected. Hopefully enough people will let you know how they feel.<hr /></blockquote>Ahmen and very well put. Why no basic service?

Simon X · Jul 17, 2002, 02:55 PM

Yes, it sucks. But what is even more pathetic is if you want to use the much touted iChat and *don't* opt for a .Mac account you have to sign up with AOL to get a screen name. This is just so Apple

Why not at least allow a free .Mac email with a few MB of space so we can use iChat, otherwise iChat is just iUseless. Laughable.

Oh, crap. I've just realised that I use my mac.com email as my MSN handle. Apple have just screwed up so many users, all for a few quick bucks.

Ken_F2 · Jul 17, 2002, 03:28 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Does Apple offer an API for full integration of other services into th OSX UI?<hr /></blockquote>No, the new APIs Apple is pushing developers to use for integration with .Mac...only works with .Mac. Or so I have heard.

Developer · Jul 17, 2002, 03:35 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ken_F2:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Does Apple offer an API for full integration of other services into th OSX UI?<hr /></blockquote>No, the new APIs Apple is pushing developers to use for integration with .Mac...only works with .Mac. Or so I have heard.<hr /></blockquote>Man, that was a rhetorical question, since you complained that a competitor didn't offer the seamless OS integration.

MajorMatt · Jul 17, 2002, 03:48 PM

Be sure to sign and spread this petition:

<a href="http://www.PetitionOnline.com/iTol/petition.html" target="_blank">http://www.PetitionOnline.com/iTol/petition.html</a>

Jutaro · Jul 17, 2002, 03:49 PM

I would say Apple is ahead of the curve on this one. Whether we like it or not, this is the type of service that the rest of the world will be using. We were all happy mac users before iTools ever came out, now all of a sudden we are miserable? Perhaps we should step back and look at the big picture.

As for the cost, remember when iTunes first came out? The general response was very luke warm. Now it has shaped up into a very good app. I think the same thing could happen to .mac.

However, I've been wrong about them before�a lot.

Peace,
Brian

dreilly1 · Jul 17, 2002, 03:59 PM

What bothers me the most about this development is not the fact that Apple is suddenly charging $100 for iTools. I don't think that $100 is reasonable for what Apple is offering (my wife's web host gives so much more for less per month that the anti-virus doesn't make up for it), but as with all Apple products, you're paying for the user experience as well as the raw product. For someone who doesn't want to go through the hassle of finding their own Web hosting provider and configuring all the files themselves, $100 a year may make sense.

What bothers me more is that Apple claims they are doing this because they can't keep the service free for the millions of people who have signed on. You mean to tell me that when Apple planned this whole iTools thing, they didn't see that if lots of people signed on to the free service, they'd lose money on it? That iTools apparent success is what doomed it? That if iTools had half the userbase it currently has, it would still be free?

Of course the people at Apple realized that iTools would only grow over the years. But I think that, back then, they took the right view of things, and considered iTools almost a marketing expense. A new computer user could buy a Mac and automatically have a place on the Internet. It helped Apple's image as the computer that made the Internet easy, and more than likely sold a few extra boxes for them. PC's may come with AOL disks, but do they come with a free web page that you don't need a CS degree to use?

While you can't fault Apple for wanting to recoup some of this expense, I find it hard to believe that they totally eliminated the free service that makes it so easy for people to have a Internet presence. Even if Apple has a premium service with more features, I believe that a free basic service is an asset to the Mac platform and helped to sell many boxes. Without it, a major differentiator between the Mac and Windows is gone. Reduce the free features if you must, but keep it around as a selling point!

I see the general philosophy of computing at Apple changing, and I don't like what I see. It will be harder for me to recommend Macs to computer-illiterate friends now that ease-of-basic-Internet-presence has a significant cost attached to it.