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schk · Oct 22, 2003, 08:38 AM

New iBooks are up on the US store!

WJMoore · Oct 22, 2003, 08:47 AM

Which of the 3 G4 iBook threads do I reply to... This one, it was posted first

. They look good, 800Mhz in the 12" 933 or 1Ghz in the 14". Same size screens (1024 x 768), slot loading drive, better graphics and USB 2.0 appear to be the main differences.
http://www.apple.com./ibook/

Jalu · Oct 22, 2003, 08:50 AM

I'd consider this a great threat to the sales-figures of the 12" Powerbook.

schk · Oct 22, 2003, 08:51 AM

Yeah, the new specs look good. I bet the mobility 9200 is probably even better than the 5200 FX on the 12" PB. I'll probably tell my brother to get the 933 14" as his next laptop. The specs are even more closer to the 12" PB now, only lacking DVI out, and 256k cache (maybe using the previous generation G4s?).

The Placid Casual · Oct 22, 2003, 08:54 AM

Very impressive...

�790 Edu price for what is basically a 800Mhz 12" G4 Powerbook?!

They must be mad!

I can also see the 14" leeching sales from the 15" Powerbook...

Great products, great prices!!

GeneShifter · Oct 22, 2003, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by Jalu:
I'd consider this a great threat to the sales-figures of the 12" Powerbook.

Yeah, that was my first thought. But, looking at the fact that 12" is only available at 800 MHz seems limiting. I have the 867MHz 12"PB and I love it. It would suck, though, to have to go up to that 14" size to get the faster speeds. I think this is how Apple is offsetting the possible lost 12"PB sales.

BrunoBruin · Oct 22, 2003, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by GeneShifter:
I think this is how Apple is offsetting the possible lost 12"PB sales.

The PowerBook also does monitor spanner, comes with DVI-out, and can be equipped with a SuperDrive. But yeah, the 12-inch iBook should really catch the eye of anyone looking at the combo-drive PowerBook, especially at a savings of $500.

Rumor Addict · Oct 22, 2003, 09:13 AM

OHHHHHHHHH WOW!

I want one now! I can't believe it. Now my crappy 14 inch iBook with the crummy G3 makes me miserable.

Now a couple of questions that probably cant be answered since no one has seen these bad boys:

1. Do these have that cheap plastic white finish that the last G3s had or do they have the nice metal finish like the former iBooks?

2. What about heat? Can i cook eggs on it like you can on a G4?

legacyb4 · Oct 22, 2003, 09:22 AM

Interesting model shift/changes.

Looks like they almost "crippled" the 12" iBook to keep it from getting too competitive with the 12" PB.

- same processor spec as 12" PB (only in 14" model, 12" model max at 800 mhz)
- half the L2 cache (just when it was clear that upping the L2 cache to 512k improved 12" PB performance
- "faster" system bus than original iBook) but memory still slower than new 12" PB
- not sure about graphic card performance compared to PB 12"
- optional Bluetooth
- no Superdrive
- no DVI output

However, the look is pretty much a PB 12" in white.

Cheers.

Originally posted by BrunoBruin:
The PowerBook also does monitor spanner, comes with DVI-out, and can be equipped with a SuperDrive. But yeah, the 12-inch iBook should really catch the eye of anyone looking at the combo-drive PowerBook, especially at a savings of $500.

vvedge · Oct 22, 2003, 09:30 AM

<-- Jealousy followed by finding ways this new iBook isn't so good:

Sigh... G4 iBooks... this came outta left field....

top two models 14 inch models? BADD idea.... I dont think its arguable that the 12 inch outsells the 14 inch almost all the time. So the only other way to get a small package like that is to go up $500+ to the powerbook...hrm?

Keyboard? What'd they do to you? It used to streach to a few millimeters to the edge, now it looks half an inch from each edge. Smaller keyboard? Really?

On the positive side...

G4 Baby!
Slot load... nice.....
Bluetooth, extra nice...
Price....sweet...
Upgrade, NO!... see top.

There, I just weaseled my way into a few more years with my 500 mhz G3 iBook

The Jackalope · Oct 22, 2003, 09:41 AM

I don't have any regrets with my new 12" rev B powerbook, even with this announcement.

This is a great move for Apple. They really needed to dump the G3 once and for all, and for the budget-conscience out there, these will make excellent portables. This combined with the now $800 1ghz eMacs, Apple has some strong low-end stuff that I can really recomment to my friends. Great job for Apple!

Commodus · Oct 22, 2003, 09:52 AM

vvedge:

I agree on the 12", you can tell that they're trying to create a bigger gap between the PowerBooks and iBooks. That being said, $1099 US for a G4 portable with a Combo drive is a Good Thing (tm).

On the keyboard front... you're looking at the 14" model, not the 12". I just downloaded the PR photo for the new 12" model and it's still close to the edge.

GeneShifter · Oct 22, 2003, 09:56 AM

Originally posted by Commodus:
That being said, $1099 US for a G4 portable with a Combo drive is a Good Thing (tm).

I just bought a 12"PB Rev A Combo refurb from Apple for $1199. I think it is about on par with the new ibook 12" except that I LOVE the amluminum construction!!

x user · Oct 22, 2003, 10:01 AM

I'm definitly glad I got my Rev. B PB 12" now. The 800mhz G4 wouldn't do that much for me over my old iBook 800 Combo.

malone · Oct 22, 2003, 10:02 AM

Looks like the battery life on the iBook 12" got bumped up a bit, too... They now claim it at 6 hours--an aggressive 20% increase!

Eug · Oct 22, 2003, 10:06 AM

Well, that caught me off guard. I wasn't expecting this until 2004.

G3, may ye rest in peace...

fibroptikl · Oct 22, 2003, 10:10 AM

Don't forget it now includes AirPort Extreme if you want in ...

scottiB · Oct 22, 2003, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by Eug:
Well, that caught me off guard. I wasn't expecting this until 2004.

No kidding. Apple also dropped the prices of the eMac to U$799 and U$1099 (DVD-R).

Not bad.

Cop Rock · Oct 22, 2003, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by vvedge:
On the positive side...

G4 Baby!
Slot load... nice.....
Bluetooth, extra nice...
Price....sweet...

It's actually optional bluetooth. It looks like you need to get a BTO machine if you want the optional internal Bluetooth module. I don't know if this is a user-installable part or not.

AC Rempt · Oct 22, 2003, 11:12 AM

Another thing to consider: it looks like the iBooks still have the same keyboard. That's a real deal breaker for me. I do an enormous amount of typing, and the keyboards on the iBooks are just not what I, and I repeat, this is me I'm talking about, would want to use on a regular basis.

They do look like good deals for someone wanting an entry-level laptop. It's certaily aimed at the comsumer vs. the professional, as iBooks should be, so I'm not worried about them eating into PowerBook sales.

Macbear · Oct 22, 2003, 11:12 AM

Okay, so has anyone ordered one of these new iBooks yet? I'm wondering what the Apple Store is quoting as a delivery time.

I ordered my 12" Powerbook with SD on October 3, and still don't have a firm delivery date. I'm a little pissed that Apple can't fill it's Powerbook orders (at least here in Canada), and now they've released iBooks with very competitive specs.

I'm really tempted to cancel the PB and order one of these.

So, if you've already ordered one of the new iBooks, please let us know their estimated ship dates.

Thanks,

biscuit · Oct 22, 2003, 11:20 AM

and

again

I totally wasn't expecting this, especially with all the talk of IBM super-G3s

I don't know what to make of it to be honest. I'm a little sad to see the 12" stuck at 800 but....I dunno....

I'm just completely flabbergasted.

biscuit

Eug · 11:44 AM

Oh, and they come with the demo for "Office 4.X".

And I wonder if they can be hacked to do desktop spanning.

vvedge · Oct 22, 2003, 11:55 AM

I take it back, the keyboard is the same. The QT VR of the iBook is the 14 inch.

still not happy that the 14 inch is the top two models.. maybe heat and size constraints?

vvedge · 01:05 PM

[doublt post, my bad]

Truepop · Oct 22, 2003, 01:35 PM

does it use the IBM G4 or moto's? Just when I was thinking since IBM came out with a new G3 we would have nicer ibooks and this blows that out of the water...

unless is apple calling the new g3 a g4?

I don't understand what processor is in it.

devmage · Oct 22, 2003, 02:39 PM

I don't normally post in the Ibook forum, Hi guys!

I have a 700Mhz IBook, my first mac and I love it

Recently bought a Dual G5 as well

All I can say is its about time, the G3 is way to dated. I like the new Ibooks, but was sad to see they were pushing the 14" Ibook over the 12" which I prefer. Perhaps if I ever need more power than my G3 has I'll upgrade

The Ibook is an awsome, affordable notebook, and even more so now I'd recomend one to anyone buying a notebook.

jcadam · Oct 22, 2003, 03:01 PM

count on decreased battery life, courtesy of that G4 chip.

damosan · Oct 22, 2003, 03:01 PM

Originally posted by schk:
New iBooks are up on the US store!

Ohhhh...I didn't need to see this.

Anywho...they still have the G3/800 for sale for $899 if you just *gotta* have a Mac dirt cheap.

wildcard · Oct 22, 2003, 03:21 PM

I'm not sure if I should be laughing hysterically or be really upset.

I have a 12" Rev A Powerbook, and the new release of the G4 Ibook is basically a cheaper version of it...

Bluetooth? I turned it off and don't use it
Slot Combo drive? This rocks and is probably my favorite Powerbook feature.

I'm debating whether the potential reduction of external case heat is worth giving up the keyboard on the Rev A and switching over to the Ibook line for good.

SOLIDAge · Oct 22, 2003, 03:25 PM

i find it kinda silly only the 14" model has 1Ghz given that its no difference in res size...odd

designfreak114 · Oct 22, 2003, 03:52 PM

Oh man....this makes me kinda mad...and jealous..

I just bought an iBook like two months ago coz i really needed a mac for school and I knew somewhere in my head this was gonna happen soon...Now my G3 machine seems soo ancient..with the G5's and G4's floating around, it really does....hehe and this is the same thing that happened to me with the adobe programs...and now cs is out...arghhh...oh well, thats technology for ya...

NYCFarmboy · Oct 22, 2003, 04:03 PM

I wonder if there will be 3rd party uptrades to put a G4 chip into the older G3 ibooks?

Arkham_c · Oct 22, 2003, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
I wonder if there will be 3rd party uptrades to put a G4 chip into the older G3 ibooks?

Doubtful. The chip is on the motherboard.

Voch · Oct 22, 2003, 04:23 PM

I've been a lurker in this forum since I sold my iBook/500 and bought a refurb TiBook 667DVI but I thought I'd drop by again since the iBook G4 announcement.

Admittedly, my 667DVI is a wonderful machine and has had none of the TiBook problems that made me shy away from the series as long as I had (except a loose power connector glitch that makes me have to charge it with the screen open...the weight of the screen makes the connection work somehow...I'm still under warranty and will get this fixed soon).

But I will be the first to admit that despite the larger screen I do miss the portability, ruggedness, and general form factor of my old iBook/500. When I got the 667DVI I handled it like eggs (now I'm a little more realistic and use it on the couch, in my car, etc.). I still won't let my friends' kids near it but would let them touch my iBook.

And now that that form factor that I somewhat miss has a G4, nicer video (667DVI=Radeon 7500 vs. iBook=Radeon 9200), faster CDRW (667DVI=8X vs. iBook=24X), AirPort Extreme, and add-on Bluetooth I'm seriously considering jumping back into iBook ownership.

But I will likely shy away until another revision or two of the iBook (it's not like my 667DVI is crap or anything...it's a wonderful machine).

Just a thought of how enticing the new iBook G4 is from a supposed PowerBook convert. If I had a use for two notebooks (if my job demanded I had two machines or a family member needed my 667DVI for some reason) I would jump on this new iBook immediately.

Voch

ambush · Oct 22, 2003, 04:38 PM

I'm *so* getting a 933 one

*best* value!

ss1 · Oct 22, 2003, 05:38 PM

I'll be looking to get an 12" G4 iBook to replace the Dell laptop that I currently have at the momment by next year July/August. I'm hopping that because of the plastic construction that the 12" iBook would be far more rugged than its older brother 12" Pb. Hence allowing me to stick into a bag and not about it as compared to the 12" Pb.

Cheers,

ss1.

newcomer · Oct 22, 2003, 06:26 PM

First thought. Gotta get one.

Second thought. Can't afford one.

Third thought. Don't need one.

My 8oo Mhz G3 iBook does everything I need it to do with aplomb. With 640mb it feels more than capable.

OK I could rip mp3s faster with that G4 - but I'm not that pressed for time.

Photoshop 6 performance on OS 9 is fine for me.

OS X runs great. I would say my only concern is that Panther might be a bit much for my little baby.

I figure, instead of forking out for a whole new machine I should be saving my pennies towards an iPod and Airport.

Whenever Apple release cool new machines, I always think. Wow!! I must have one. And then it always hits me - I really don't need one. Yet. Of course I might need one - or two - if my bank balance starts to look any healthier!

Scooterboy · Oct 22, 2003, 06:33 PM

I'm wondering what processor this new iBook G4 really is. Anyone know? I doubt it's the IBM 750GX with SIMD (Velocity engine as Apple calls it or Altivec as Motorola trademarked). If it were a 750GX it would have a 1MB level 2 cache, not just 256K. The slow 133 MHz bus speed also suggests Motorola, as the G3's are capable of using a 200 MHz bus. It looks to me like Apple is using an older Mot G4. This makes sense because the older CPU's are probably cheaper than the brand new IBM G3, and if Apple did make a 1.1 GHz iBook G3/200MHz bus it probably would spank a 12" PowerBook in non-altivec apps and come damn close in the altivec enabled apps.

I like: Radeon 9200 (almost enough to make me buy), Airport Extreme, optional built-in Bluetooth. Silver-grey is back, I hope Crystal White as well.

I don't like: 12" limited to 800 MHz (bad move, as MHz should not go down for a newer model, despite the "Myth", and like others I don't want to feel forced to buy a 14" iBook just to get the 1GHz processor.

I can wait a while yet, either for a 1 GHz 12" or a PowerBook G5. These should be coming soon now that iBooks are G4, too. PowerBook's have the consumer CPU with Pro features.

G5=Pro
G4=Consumer

Colonel Panic · Oct 22, 2003, 06:52 PM

no L3 cache, skimpy L2, no superdrive option at any price (too bad since a g4 makes idvd a possibility, and the whole burn-a dvd-thing is a nice sell for a consumer - a gee whiz feature if there ever was one).

all in, reasonably close to a rev A 12"powerbook, but much cheaper.

too bad the 12 maxes out at 800Mhz - clearly apple is worried that this machine will cannibalize 12" powerbook sales...

nice update to the line, though!

elvis2000 · Oct 22, 2003, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by wildcard:
I'm not sure if I should be laughing hysterically or be really upset.

I have a 12" Rev A Powerbook, and the new release of the G4 Ibook is basically a cheaper version of it...

Bluetooth? I turned it off and don't use it
Slot Combo drive? This rocks and is probably my favorite Powerbook feature.

I'm debating whether the potential reduction of external case heat is worth giving up the keyboard on the Rev A and switching over to the Ibook line for good.

As long as you don't mind looking like a tool in public, go for it.

kjm · Oct 22, 2003, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by legacyb4:
Interesting model shift/changes.

Looks like they almost "crippled" the 12" iBook to keep it from getting too competitive with the 12" PB.

- same processor spec as 12" PB (only in 14" model, 12" model max at 800 mhz)
- half the L2 cache (just when it was clear that upping the L2 cache to 512k improved 12" PB performance
- "faster" system bus than original iBook) but memory still slower than new 12" PB
- not sure about graphic card performance compared to PB 12"
- optional Bluetooth
- no Superdrive
- no DVI output

However, the look is pretty much a PB 12" in white.

Cheers.

Please excuse my silly question, but just wanted to make sure I understand the "no DVI output". Does the lack of no DVI output mean that I wouldn't be able to connect the iBook to say a tv or projector?

Scooterboy · Oct 22, 2003, 07:12 PM

Lack of DVI output means you can't connect digitally to a projector or monitor. You can connect to TV using composite (standard RCA connector), S-Video (higher quality multi-pin connector), and to monitors using VGA connector. Apple DVI monitors are a no go.

zubro · Oct 22, 2003, 07:36 PM

Originally posted by Scooterboy:
I'm wondering what processor this new iBook G4 really is. Anyone know? I doubt it's the IBM 750GX with SIMD (Velocity engine as Apple calls it or Altivec as Motorola trademarked). If it were a 750GX it would have a 1MB level 2 cache, not just 256K. The slow 133 MHz bus speed also suggests Motorola, as the G3's are capable of using a 200 MHz bus. It looks to me like Apple is using an older Mot G4. This makes sense because the older CPU's are probably cheaper than the brand new IBM G3, and if Apple did make a 1.1 GHz iBook G3/200MHz bus it probably would spank a 12" PowerBook in non-altivec apps and come damn close in the altivec enabled apps.

______
from www.macbidouille.com
(that you can also find in english)
"Vous constaterez que la cache L2 des processeurs n'est que de 256 Ko contre 512 pour les Powerbook. Les processeurs utilis�s ne sont donc pas des 7457, mais bien des 7455, tout comme les anciens Powerbook G4."

et voila!...

Scooterboy · Oct 22, 2003, 10:15 PM

Courtesy of Watson's Translation tool:

"You ascertain as her hiding-place L2 any processor n'est as about Ko against 512 for the Powerbook. The processor used ne are consequently not any 7457, but many a 7455, all as the ancients Powerbook G4."

Motorola 7455 G4 in the iBook. This is the "ancient" G4 from previous PowerBooks? Is this the G4 that the iBook G3's sometimes outperformed?

x user · Oct 22, 2003, 10:15 PM

From what I see, Apple is playing down the introduction of G4 to the iBook line. Basically it's a non-event for the line because most people won't notice the difference. Obviously the 12" doens't go any higher than 800mhz to as not to compete with the 12" PB (and so as not to piss off the RevA PB 12" owners as much). Basically they're saying if you want a bitchin screen or a fast small laptop, the PB is for you. The iBook is still the consumer model. And although not advertised, I'd bet the processors have altivec.

Scooterboy · Oct 22, 2003, 10:23 PM

Still it's a nice step up for someone with an iBook as old or older than mine.
I'll go up from a 600MHz IBM 750 CXe G3 with 256 KB level 2 cache on 100 MHz bus to 800 MHz (or 1 GHz) Mot 7455 G4 with 256 KB level 2 cache. So that's a small step up for me, and better as I start using more Altivec enabled apps like Final Cut Express...

And more importantly, moving from an ATi RAGE Mobility 128 with 8 MB SDRAM to an ATi Radeon 9200 with 32 MB DDR SDRAM is a big step up!

Scooterboy · Oct 22, 2003, 10:32 PM

The G4 and bus in the new iBooks is the same G4 that is in my eMac (800 MHz G4, 256 KB level 2 cache, 133 MHz bus with ATi Radeon 7500).

The iBook now has a Radeon 9200, better than the GPU in my eMac, and USB 2.0. I'm well pleased with the performance of my eMac, it is much much better than my iBook 600.

iBook G4 seems much like a mobile eMac, which is pretty cool.

khufuu · Oct 23, 2003, 01:36 AM

Originally posted by Macbear:
Okay, so has anyone ordered one of these new iBooks yet? I'm wondering what the Apple Store is quoting as a delivery time.

I ordered my 12" Powerbook with SD on October 3, and still don't have a firm delivery date. I'm a little pissed that Apple can't fill it's Powerbook orders (at least here in Canada), and now they've released iBooks with very competitive specs.

I'm really tempted to cancel the PB and order one of these.

So, if you've already ordered one of the new iBooks, please let us know their estimated ship dates.

Thanks,

apple.ca says 7-10 days for a new iBook.

TheIceMan · Oct 23, 2003, 01:58 AM

Originally posted by Voch:
...When I got the 667DVI I handled it like eggs (now I'm a little more realistic and use it on the couch, in my car, etc.). I still won't let my friends' kids near it but would let them touch my iBook.

And now that that form factor that I somewhat miss has a G4, nicer video (667DVI=Radeon 7500 vs. iBook=Radeon 9200), faster CDRW (667DVI=8X vs. iBook=24X), AirPort Extreme, and add-on Bluetooth I'm seriously considering jumping back into iBook ownership.

But I will likely shy away until another revision or two of the iBook (it's not like my 667DVI is crap or anything...it's a wonderful machine)...

Voch

I am in almost your exact situation. Coming from a 667 PowerBook. I think I'll try to hold out til the beginning of the year for MacWorld. My guess is that Apple will upgrade ALL their laptop lines, starting with the iBooks and then the PowerBooks.