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gregfripp · Jan 19, 2012, 05:31 AM

why haven't apple made a router/modem?
they have airport, which is half one, so why haven't they gone the whole hog?
we need an apple product to complete our apple lineup and buy ALL apple.
greg

Waragainstsleep · Jan 19, 2012, 05:54 AM

I think its partly that they figure most people are given one for free with their broadband nowadays and partly that they can't be bothered with the regional variations in settings and perhaps even more importantly, supporting the wide variety of different settings.

If you call most ISPs to report an issue with your broadband, then admit you have a different router (some won't even allow this btw) most will tell you to connect the one they supplied because its all they train their support staff how to use. They will refer you back to Apple. Its not worth it for Apple to try to train their Applecare people and Genius bar staff with the different settings of every ISP local to their country or region.

Cold Warrior · Jan 19, 2012, 09:17 AM

That definitely, but also, what would apple offer in the modem space? It modulates and demodulates signal with no user interaction required. If it's doing that, it's doing its job.

Waragainstsleep · Jan 19, 2012, 10:33 AM

It would save an extra box to leave plugged in all the time.
They might also make firewalls a bit more user friendly.
Some more iCloud integration including dynamic DNS maybe?

Spheric Harlot · Jan 19, 2012, 10:40 AM

That's already all in the Airport things.

Why should they build various cable/ADSL/VDSL/whateverelse boxes that people will need to replace when they change providers or move house?

Waragainstsleep · Jan 19, 2012, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

That's already all in the Airport things.

Why should they build various cable/ADSL/VDSL/whateverelse boxes that people will need to replace when they change providers or move house?

Why would you need to replace it because you changed house or provider?

turtle777 · Jan 19, 2012, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep

Why would you need to replace it because you changed house or provider?

Because the routers are tailored to the different providers and systems they are using.

My cable provider will push firmware updates to the modem and change settings so that it performs best. Also, the standards in difefrent countries are different. Apple would have to create dozens of variants of its modem/router. That's not what they like to do.

-t

Spheric Harlot · Jan 19, 2012, 01:29 PM

If you switch from cable to ADSL, you need a different modem. If you switch to VDSL, you may need a different modem. There's different modem standards.

Waragainstsleep · Jan 19, 2012, 02:11 PM

Over here ADSL (2+) is ADSL. Its only now that fibre is finally coming through that you can't keep a modem almost forever.

It actually depends what modem you are using too. The Draytek Vigor units will do ADSL2, anything that comes in via ethernet (EFM for example) and have USB for a 3G dongle. Sometimes all at once. Well, it does DSL & ethernet at the same time, maybe not 3G.

turtle777 · Jan 19, 2012, 02:57 PM

Apple is a worldwide company, and doesn't only produce products for "over here" (a.k.a. UK).

-t

Spheric Harlot · Jan 19, 2012, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep

Over here ADSL (2+) is ADSL. Its only now that fibre is finally coming through that you can't keep a modem almost forever.

It actually depends what modem you are using too. The Draytek Vigor units will do ADSL2, anything that comes in via ethernet (EFM for example) and have USB for a 3G dongle. Sometimes all at once. Well, it does DSL & ethernet at the same time, maybe not 3G.

The Drayteks I can see that do that are substantially more expensive than the Airport Extreme, and I don't think the do dual-band.

I remember that going from 6Mbit ADSL to ADSL2 required a new modem, as does getting VDSL IIRC - which is the only way to get broadband in many rural areas here (Germany). Anything custom, provider-dependent, or just plain new is going to require an external box again, so why add dead weight for something that has many incarnations that change over time, costs money and support time, and is provided for free as part of any broadband contract?

Waragainstsleep · Jan 19, 2012, 05:55 PM

DrayTek Vigor 2820n ADSL2+ Wireless-N Router

There is actually a 2830N which is newer, better and slightly cheaper (only ~£5 cheaper). They are a bit more expensive than an Airport Extreme, but they have built in VPN, can amalgamate multiple broadband lines as mentioned, 3G backup as mentioned (or dial up for emergencies via USB), they have pretty good QoS features too among other things. These boxes are robust and feature packed. I swear by them.

Athens · Jan 19, 2012, 06:16 PM

I hate the all in one devices anyways, I prefer the Extreme as it is. When Telus tried to give me a all in one I said no give me the speedtouch modem only.And now Shaw is using all in one devices I have to request modem only.

gregfripp · Jan 24, 2012, 11:23 AM

thanks for your thoughts, guys
greg

Spheric Harlot · Jan 24, 2012, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep

DrayTek Vigor 2820n ADSL2+ Wireless-N Router

1.) Cheapest offer I could find for that (EU-wide) is 70€ more expensive (excluding shipping) than the Airport Extreme.

2.) Not dual-band Wi-Fi.

Like I said,

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

The Drayteks I can see that do that are substantially more expensive than the Airport Extreme, and I don't think the do dual-band.

Thank you for supporting my point.

besson3c · Jan 24, 2012, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep

It would save an extra box to leave plugged in all the time.
They might also make firewalls a bit more user friendly.
Some more iCloud integration including dynamic DNS maybe?

That stuff is not the domain of a modem.

besson3c · Jan 24, 2012, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Because the routers are tailored to the different providers and systems they are using.

My cable provider will push firmware updates to the modem and change settings so that it performs best. Also, the standards in difefrent countries are different. Apple would have to create dozens of variants of its modem/router. That's not what they like to do.

-t

I agree, and plus, what would the profit margins be? I'm sure Apple makes very little selling Airport routers.

besson3c · Jan 24, 2012, 06:36 PM

This is probably a dumb question, but what sort of devices are required for fibre connections to the house?

Spheric Harlot · Jan 24, 2012, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

This is probably a dumb question, but what sort of devices are required for fibre connections to the house?

I have a fiber access point in the basement (which supplies my apartment building with 100 Mbit/10 Mbit bandwidth for each tenant, plus cable television and VoIP phone service). It's hooked up to a converter that patches into the buildings' copper wiring.

I have a regular ADSL+ modem/router combo (an AVM Fritz.Box) hooked up to the phone socket in my apartment.

gregfripp · Jan 25, 2012, 04:29 AM

but airport extreme is not a complete modem/router and is really the problem, not a solution.
greg

besson3c · Jan 25, 2012, 05:07 AM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

I have a fiber access point in the basement (which supplies my apartment building with 100 Mbit/10 Mbit bandwidth for each tenant, plus cable television and VoIP phone service). It's hooked up to a converter that patches into the buildings' copper wiring.

I have a regular ADSL+ modem/router combo (an AVM Fritz.Box) hooked up to the phone socket in my apartment.

Is this standard? Are there standards for fibre connectivity in general?

I'd say that if Apple were to become involved with any of this they'd skip today's cable/DSL and focus on fibre.

Is it fibre or fiber?

besson3c · Jan 25, 2012, 05:10 AM

Originally Posted by gregfripp

but airport extreme is not a complete modem/router and is really the problem, not a solution.
greg

How is it a problem?

Waragainstsleep · Jan 25, 2012, 06:03 AM

I put a 40mb Fibre line in the other day for a customer. Its a business line and had a rack-mountable converter box with redundant PSUs which takes the fibre feed from the street and spits out ethernet to a Cisco 2900 box which in turn is feeding another router which also has a DSL line as a backup.

Over here its fibre, over there I think its fiber.

Spheric Harlot · Jan 25, 2012, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Is this standard? Are there standards for fibre connectivity in general?

I'd say that if Apple were to become involved with any of this they'd skip today's cable/DSL and focus on fibre.

I dunno about the US, but over here, the government is trying to force telcos into supplying broadband to all rural areas but those in turn are trying to figure out how to finance the fifteen BILLION Euro that will cost them just for copper cable. There just isn't any way to do it unsubsidized.

Fiber optic requires completely new infrastructure for every mile of the way. They're only doing it here for housing co-ops, where entire complexes can be hooked up.

I shudder to imagine the cost for coast-to-coast coverage in Northern America would be.

Eug · Jan 25, 2012, 01:58 PM

I've been on dialup, cable, ADSL, and now VDSL2. Obviously, they've all required completely different modems.

My ADSL/ADSL2 modem does not support VDSL2, and vice versa.

Plus the providers here for VDSL2 require you to get the modem from them. They have specific modems and/or specific firmwares for specific neighbourhoods, because different neighbourhoods use different VDSL2 infrastructure. Also note that they do NOT charge extra for the modem for VDSL2. Even if you bought your own (as a separate piece, or as a part of a hypothetical Apple DoubleExtreme!!!) you would get no discount on the monthly costs.