Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

doublep · Dec 18, 2005, 12:53 AM

Does anyone care to speculate when we will get 10.4.4 ?

Apple Insider reports the following:
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1418

I'm just really hoping for better drivers to improve the performance of high end nVidia GeForce cards...

msuper69 · Dec 18, 2005, 01:12 AM

Originally Posted by doublep

Does anyone care to speculate when we will get 10.4.4 ?

Apple Insider reports the following:
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1418

I'm just really hoping for better drivers to improve the performance of high end nVidia GeForce cards...

real soon now.

Nexus5 · Dec 18, 2005, 04:31 AM

In 2005.

nexus5.

TheSpaz · Dec 18, 2005, 07:05 PM

I can't wait to be disappointed! Yay!

rickey939 · Dec 18, 2005, 07:09 PM

This week.

Telusman · Dec 18, 2005, 07:58 PM

Either Saturday December 24th or Tuesday January 10th.

alphasubzero949 · Dec 19, 2005, 04:19 AM

Give it about two months before IT gets around to this update. Hell, some departments I know of are still on Jaguar, let alone Panther.

jdiddy · Dec 19, 2005, 08:12 AM

Sometime before next year.

Grrr · Dec 19, 2005, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by TheSpaz

I can't wait to be disappointed! Yay!

&

TheSpaz · Dec 19, 2005, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by Grrr

&

^ That's how I feel about Tiger. Everyone should know this by now. Apple makes crap software now-a-days. I just wish they'd start making things work again.

TheSpaz · Dec 19, 2005, 11:16 AM

Also, I think it's about time for Adobe to update their design Apps and re-write them completely in Cocoa instead of Carbon. Carbon sucks... everyone knows that.

Maflynn · Dec 19, 2005, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by TheSpaz

^ That's how I feel about Tiger. Everyone should know this by now. Apple makes crap software now-a-days. I just wish they'd start making things work again.

Yes everyone knows.

That you hate tiger and you seem to be in the minority with your other statement regarding crap software, most people here thing they make excellent Operating systems and applications. Why not stop complaining about 10.4 and go back to 10.3. Life will be good for you (and us).

TheSpaz · Dec 19, 2005, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by Maflynn

Yes everyone knows.

That you hate tiger and you seem to be in the minority with your other statement regarding crap software, most people here thing they make excellent Operating systems and applications. Why not stop complaining about 10.4 and go back to 10.3. Life will be good for you (and us).

I did revert back to 10.3 at home which still doesn't change my opinion about Tiger but sadly, I have to use Tiger at work and it's not fun for me. When you use Tiger along with Adobe Apps all day, you notice every little annoying glitch and bug that Tiger has which Panther did not have. So I have the right to complain, I'm a power user so I don't just use it for email and web browsing. I use almost everything in the OS as well as a lot of Pro Apps. Also, I have an extreme attention to detail because I'm a graphic designer and a perfectionist.

Maflynn · Dec 19, 2005, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by TheSpaz

So I have the right to complain, I'm a power user so I don't just use it for email and web browsing. I use almost everything in the OS as well as a lot of Pro Apps. Also, I have an extreme attention to detail because I'm a graphic designer and a perfectionist.

Well I use it quite heavily myself (not just emails and surfing) and have not noticed any the issues you posted in various other threads. Do you have a right to complain sure - its America but you seem a little over the top to state "Apple makes crap software now-a-days." If that's how you feel then why don't you buy a PC and/or find a job that uses a PC. Nobody is holding a gun to your head making you use Apple products that you seem to despise so much.

production_coordinator · Dec 19, 2005, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by TheSpaz

I did revert back to 10.3 at home which still doesn't change my opinion about Tiger but sadly, I have to use Tiger at work and it's not fun for me. When you use Tiger along with Adobe Apps all day, you notice every little annoying glitch and bug that Tiger has which Panther did not have. So I have the right to complain, I'm a power user so I don't just use it for email and web browsing. I use almost everything in the OS as well as a lot of Pro Apps. Also, I have an extreme attention to detail because I'm a graphic designer and a perfectionist.

There is a difference between "extreme attention to detail" AND making "mountains out of mole hills"

There are a couple of things in Tiger that I would like addressed, but I haven't seen anything that would EVER make me consider reverting back to 10.3.9...

kcmac · Dec 19, 2005, 02:12 PM

Let Spaz complain. Why should we care? Does Tiger work for you or not? Was Panther better for you or not?

Do the complaints from Spaz suddenly make your system start acting weirdly for you?

If you don't like it, just skip over the Spaz's comments. That's what I do.

Horsepoo!!! · 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by kcmac

Let Spaz complain. Why should we care? Does Tiger work for you or not? Was Panther better for you or not?

Do the complaints from Spaz suddenly make your system start acting weirdly for you?

If you don't like it, just skip over the Spaz's comments. That's what I do.

Ok, but server-wise, it's taking up space, and post-wise, it's taking up bandwidth. The MacNN servers can take on bozo repeating the same things over and over again but what if there were 100 bozos?

The behavior is inexcusable. It would be fine if his comments about Tiger being a disaster happened once a month, but they're posted once every 3 hours, daily!

I'd have pity for him if he was FORCED to use 10.4 but he's got complete access to 10.3 and he's unwilling to revert back simply to continue yammering about 10.4's suckiness. He's earned a one-way ticket to 'IgnoresVille'. Too bad MacNN is hiding that feature in the user prefs.

Maflynn · Dec 19, 2005, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by TheSpaz

So I have the right to complain

I recall reading a post by you a while ago saying that your tired of getting flamed and/or arguing with everyone else here at macnn that doesn't have a problem with tiger and you'll no longer post imflammatory/negative posts regarding tiger.

I'm sure windows has no problems

Jonesy · Dec 19, 2005, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by TheSpaz

I'm a power user so I don't just use it for email and web browsing. I use almost everything in the OS as well as a lot of Pro Apps. Also, I have an extreme attention to detail because I'm a graphic designer and a perfectionist.

As a Power User I'm sure you have more important work to do than posting on the MacNN Forums all the time. Give us all a break.

Back to the subject.

Any real information on the update?

OreoCookie · Dec 19, 2005, 05:20 PM

Live and let live, guys. If someone has problems or other personal preferences, then let him, ok?

wtmcgee · Dec 19, 2005, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by Jonesy

As a Power User I'm sure you have more important work to do than posting on the MacNN Forums all the time. Give us all a break.

Back to the subject.

Any real information on the update?

well put

osxrules · Dec 19, 2005, 08:50 PM

Back to the topic, 10.4.4 very much better fix the issue of the NVidia drivers where they broke the front buffer in 10.4.3.

The company I work for bought a brand new Quad G5 with a package over £5000 and it was shipped with 10.4.3. It came with a Geforce 6600 and there are a few critical pieces of software I use that I haven't been able to run because the drivers are broken.

Since when was shipping £5000 machines with faulty software acceptable?

It wouldn't piss me off so much if there was an update released quickly but it's been weeks now. Would it have been so hard to make an installer with the 10.4.2 NVidia drivers?

What is the deal with the constant updates to the drivers anyway? We seem to get new ones every release now and they never seem to get any better. Not faster anyway.

Chinasaur · Dec 20, 2005, 08:51 AM

It's going to be delayed....

There are issues getting the Snappy™ functionality in and the Debug code out.

Nexus5 · Dec 20, 2005, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by TheSpaz

...I'm a power user so I don't just use it for email and web browsing. I use almost everything in the OS as well as a lot of Pro Apps. Also, I have an extreme attention to detail because I'm a graphic designer and a perfectionist.

nexus5.

TheSpaz · Dec 20, 2005, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

I'd have pity for him if he was FORCED to use 10.4 but he's got complete access to 10.3 and he's unwilling to revert back simply to continue yammering about 10.4's suckiness. He's earned a one-way ticket to 'IgnoresVille'. Too bad MacNN is hiding that feature in the user prefs.

I am forced to use 10.4 every day at work and I explained earlier that here at work we do not have a copy of Panther around, otherwise I'd revert to Panther at work. I think the things I complain about are reasonable. I have to download 3rd party software and learn about little work-arounds in order to get the OS to operate correctly and it's tiring when Panther worked so much better in my opinion.

Webscreamer · Dec 20, 2005, 03:01 PM

On the server side, I heard from someone that it fixes the problem with MySQL and PHP talking on the same server? It was a socket problem that can be fixed my apple's instruction...but is annoying. Can anyone confirm this has been fixed?

Goldfinger · Dec 20, 2005, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by TheSpaz

I am forced to use 10.4 every day at work and I explained earlier that here at work we do not have a copy of Panther around, otherwise I'd revert to Panther at work. I think the things I complain about are reasonable. I have to download 3rd party software and learn about little work-arounds in order to get the OS to operate correctly and it's tiring when Panther worked so much better in my opinion.

Seriously, there are no features that "worked better" under Panther.

Maflynn · Dec 20, 2005, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by TheSpaz

I explained earlier that here at work we do not have a copy of Panther around, otherwise I'd revert to Panther at work.

One word - Ebay

I understand no OS is perfect, no OS is the end all and be all and to be fair, and I mean this. Why not pick up a copy of panther on ebay. You spend a lot of time and energy here posting about the short comings of tiger, which means you spend even more time at work dealing with these problems, so just downgrade to panther. You'll be happier and live longer.

SMacTech · Dec 20, 2005, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by TheSpaz

I have an extreme attention to detail because I'm a graphic designer and a perfectionist.

This self-proclaimed talent as a perfectionist may be the answer to your dilemmas.

alphasubzero949 · Dec 21, 2005, 04:14 AM

Originally Posted by Chinasaur

It's going to be delayed....

There are issues getting the Snappy™ functionality in and the Debug code out.

It was funny five years ago.

mrmister · Dec 21, 2005, 05:31 AM

Where is the ignore feature? That would be useful.

TheSpaz · Dec 21, 2005, 10:18 AM

The ignore feature is activated by pressing cmd-w.

Kristoff · Dec 21, 2005, 10:33 AM

Tiger is at least as good as Jayson's HTML

TheSpaz · Dec 21, 2005, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by Kristoff

Tiger is at least as good as Jayson's HTML

Yep, you caught me. I'm not an HTML expert. What does that prove? I'm not a programmer but, I do know what I like in a program. Did you happen to see how often I actually work on that site?

Kristoff · Dec 21, 2005, 10:39 AM

It was a joke. I actually think your layout looks nice. Chill......

But much like Tiger, there are some very minor issues that will only present themselves under certain circumstances.

But it wouldn't be too hard to get it to validate

Cheers!

TheSpaz · Dec 21, 2005, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by Kristoff

It was a joke. I actually think your layout looks nice. Chill......

But much like Tiger, there are some very minor issues that will only present themselves under certain circumstances.

But it wouldn't be too hard to get it to validate

Cheers!

Sorry... I didn't realize it was a joke but, taking a second look I did see you used the

icon. Sorry for attacking you. Thank you for the compliment too. Heh.

cambro · Dec 21, 2005, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Webscreamer

On the server side, I heard from someone that it fixes the problem with MySQL and PHP talking on the same server? It was a socket problem that can be fixed my apple's instruction...but is annoying. Can anyone confirm this has been fixed?

No, but I can confirm that it has never been broken.

My server runs MySQL and PHP has not had any problem under 10.4.x. (or 10.x.x for that matter).

Webscreamer · Dec 21, 2005, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by cambro

No, but I can confirm that it has never been broken.

My server runs MySQL and PHP has not had any problem under 10.4.x. (or 10.x.x for that matter).

Then why did apple create this?
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=301457

I had problems... I followed the instructions and it works fine. I just hope they have a fully compatible version of PHP and MySQL that supports MySQLs new passwords out of the box...

cambro · Dec 21, 2005, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Webscreamer

Then why did apple create this?
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=301457

Well, there must be an issue on some installations, but all I can tell you is that I run MySQL 5.0.15 and PHP 4.3.11 on both a G5 and a Powerbook G4 running 10.4.x with no problem - mysql_pconnect just works.

Perhaps this is only an issue with 10.4.x server and the shipping versions of the software on the server? If you install MySQL and turn on PHP on a regular OS X installation everything works fine.

Webscreamer · Dec 21, 2005, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by cambro

Well, there must be an issue on some installations, but all I can tell you is that I run MySQL 5.0.15 and PHP 4.3.11 on both a G5 and a Powerbook G4 running 10.4.x with no problem - mysql_pconnect just works.

Perhaps this is only an issue with 10.4.x server and the shipping versions of the software on the server? If you install MySQL and turn on PHP on a regular OS X installation everything works fine.

Well, you installed MySQL 5.. that's why it works. It doesn't work on default install.

TheSpaz · Dec 21, 2005, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by Webscreamer

Well, you installed MySQL 5.. that's why it works. It doesn't work on default install.

Then... download MySQL 5? Problem solved?

Webscreamer · Dec 21, 2005, 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by TheSpaz

Then... download MySQL 5? Problem solved?

I don't want to use MySQL 5 yet.

brokenjago · Dec 22, 2005, 05:02 AM

Just Burdiet.

Mike Pither · Dec 23, 2005, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

Seriously, there are no features that "worked better" under Panther.

I perfer Tiger but it did break wireless printing (Canon i865) on two computers for me, this problem is well documented on the Apple forums (and here!).

Nexus5 · Dec 23, 2005, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by Webscreamer

Well, you installed MySQL 5.. that's why it works. It doesn't work on default install.

Right. And if you update an 10.3 Server with MySQL/PHP to 10.4 then you have a problem.

nexus5.

analogika · Dec 23, 2005, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by TheSpaz

Also, I think it's about time for Adobe to update their design Apps and re-write them completely in Cocoa instead of Carbon. Carbon sucks... everyone knows that.

Oddly, every time the subject comes up on these fora, the developers, who actually KNOW what the hell they're talking about, seem to disagree.

Maybe it's just "power users" who know this?

TheSpaz · Dec 23, 2005, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by analogika

Oddly, every time the subject comes up on these fora, the developers, who actually KNOW what the hell they're talking about, seem to disagree.

Maybe it's just "power users" who know this?

I'm not a developer but, it seems to me that Carbon is bad. I don't like it. I much perfer Cocoa because they seem to run smoother for me... and it doesn't remind me of OS 9 as much ;-)

SMacTech · Dec 24, 2005, 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by TheSpaz

I'm not a developer but, it seems to me that Carbon is bad. I don't like it. I much perfer Cocoa because they seem to run smoother for me... and it doesn't remind me of OS 9 as much ;-)

Carbon is not bad,
FUD

donparr · Dec 24, 2005, 01:11 AM

It may just be 'me,' and the fact that I'm still new and mostly email and surf the net, but I'm thrilled with 10.4.3, but I would give 10.4.4 a look I suppose

.

Catfish_Man · Dec 24, 2005, 01:31 AM

Originally Posted by TheSpaz

I'm not a developer but, it seems to me that Carbon is bad. I don't like it. I much perfer Cocoa because they seem to run smoother for me... and it doesn't remind me of OS 9 as much ;-)

Carbon gets a bad rep for two reasons: the first (and primary one) is that all the old OS9 apps were ported over using it, and naturally they act like OS9 apps. The second is that it's harder to work with than Cocoa, so more developer time is put into just getting things working, and less into polishing it. However, what a lot of people don't realize is that Carbon is both faster (in general) and more complete (in general) than Cocoa, with the result that many Cocoa apps use Carbon internally for certain things.

<edit> For stuff that isn't extremely performance-sensitive (i.e. just about everything), and stuff that's possible to do from Cocoa (most stuff), I do prefer Cocoa. It's just easier and faster to work with, and happy programmers == good code

</edit>