[typoon]

Eating beef ' is less green than driving' - Telegraph

Producing 2.2lb of beef generates as much greenhouse gas as driving a car non-stop for three hours, it was claimed yesterday.

Japanese scientists used a range of data to calculate the environmental impact of a single purchase of beef.

Taking into account all the processes involved, they said, four average sized steaks generated greenhouse gases with a warming potential equivalent to 80.25lb of carbon dioxide.

This also consumed 169 megajoules of energy.

That means that 2.2lb of beef is responsible for greenhouse gas emissions which have the same effect as the carbon dioxide released by an ordinary car travelling at 50 miles per hour for 155 miles, a journey lasting three hours. The amount of energy consumed would light a 100-watt bulb for 20 days.

Most of the greenhouse gas emissions are in the form of methane released from the animals' digestive systems, New Scientist magazine reported.

But more than two thirds of the energy used goes towards producing and transporting cattle feed, said the study, which was led by Akifumi Ogino from the National Institute of Livestock and Grassland Science in Tsukuba, Japan.

Su Taylor, the press officer for the Vegetarian Society, told New Scientist: "Everybody is trying to come up with different ways to reduce carbon footprints, but one of the easiest things you can do is to stop eating meat."
__________________
What will people come up with next to claim Mankind is the cause of global warming?

Could someone pass me the steak...?

Maybe the next thing that will come out that wearing rubber soled shoes is causing global warming because of what it takes to make the rubber and the rubber itself once people are not wearing their shoes.

[Dakarʒ]

Doofy: I told you so

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

Doofy: I told you so

I'm not going to have to start paying you for this service, am I?

[Dakarʒ]

I really need to leave this area.

Thank god no one's complained yet.

[Chuckit]

They're not coming up with anything to claim that man is the cause of global warming. They aren't having that argument with you. They're talking to people who already accept the laws of physics and offering hard data on something these people might be interested in but not thought of before.

[Uncle Skeleton]

2.2 lbs is a lot of beef. That's like 7 days worth for one person. 3 hours of driving is less than 7 days worth for the average person. Also, methane is not considered as important because it lingers in the atmosphere for a far shorter time. Either way, I find it far more informative to know the total output for each industry nation-wide, than to try to come up with a theoretical number of per-dose emissions.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by typoon 

What will people come up with next to claim Mankind is the cause of global warming?

'Come up with'? This is factual, has been known for some time too.

[peeb]

Not in 'Right Wing World'! Liberals are the cause of global warming!

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Mastrap 

'Come up with'? This is factual

No it's not. It's about as factual as second-hand smoke.

BS with which to bash everyone over the head with as they try and lead us all into a granola lifestyle, in other words.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

No it's not. It's about as factual as second-hand smoke.

BS with which to bash everyone over the head with as they try and lead us all into a granola lifestyle, in other words.

Sorry, but I've got to disagree on this. The argument is not 'cows are destroying the atmosphere', the argument is 'the beef industry is contributing significantly to aerial pollution'.


Link: VIDO - Solutions Through Research

Environment Canada has determined that the agriculture sector is responsible for 10 per cent of the greenhouse emissions in Canada. The beef industry accounts for roughly half of these emissions, but reductions in its greenhouse gas contributions are quite feasible. Livestock diets can be improved, animals bred and selected for their superior utilization of feed, and finally pasture lands, through better management, can naturally sequester

Link to pdf fact sheet

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Mastrap 

Sorry, but I've got to disagree on this. The argument is not 'cows are destroying the atmosphere', the argument is 'the beef industry is contributing significantly to aerial pollution'.

Classic. My 4x4 is me destroying the planet, but your steak is the beef industry polluting the air a bit.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Classic. My 4x4 is me destroying the planet, but your steak is the beef industry polluting the air a bit.

It's not polluting 'a bit'. If you read the fact sheet I linked to above you'll see that the beef industry alone is responsible for over 5% of all CO2 emissions in Canada. That does not take into account emissions created by transportation and manufacture of beef and beef products. Take these into account and the estimated total is several percentage points higher.

You were saying?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Mastrap 

You were saying?

4x4 = "global warming"
meat industry = "aerial pollution"

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Time to patent my strap on cowfart wind-turbine power generator system before the world comes to an end.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Classic. My 4x4 is me destroying the planet, but your steak is the beef industry polluting the air a bit.

No, both are air pollution. Whether air pollutants have the same effect in the atmosphere as they're known to have normally is up for debate (I guess), but whether these things release pollutants is not.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

No, both are air pollution. Whether air pollutants have the same effect in the atmosphere as they're known to have normally is up for debate (I guess), but whether these things release pollutants is not.

I know. I'm just laughing at how these things are expressed.

If they expressed the beef-eating thing in the same way they express the 4x4 thing, the population would tell them to stick their global warming up their chuffs and the whole sorry edifice would collapse.

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by typoon 

Eating beef ' is less green than driving' - Telegraph

What will people come up with next to claim Mankind is the cause of global warming?

Could someone pass me the steak...?

Maybe the next thing that will come out that wearing rubber soled shoes is causing global warming because of what it takes to make the rubber and the rubber itself once people are not wearing their shoes.

I don't see why you're questioning this finding. It's no news to us treehuggers and vegetarians. Cows are big animals. Because of unquenchable human demand, there are more cows on Earth than people. In fact, they graze on something like 1/4 the surface of the planet. The leading cause of deforestation--which reduces the carbon sink--is to create grazing land. All these cattle also emit methane which is, per molecule, a much more powerful greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide.

So, what will people come up with next to pretend we're not causing global warming?

I mean, really, do you really think that a civilization that consumes as much as we do--whether its meat, or plastic, or what-have-you--can not have a significant impact on the environment. How can you possibly strap on blinder after blinder to ignore human environmental impact?

There's a dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico? Oh, I'm sure that's coincidence.

There's an iceshelf the size of Conneticut breaking off from Antarctica? That would've happened anyway.

There's how much less rainforest today? Who cares, they're just jungles.

How many species are disappearing? Dammit, all I need is my cows!

Give me a break.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Helmling 

All these cattle also emit methane which is, per molecule, a much more powerful greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide.

Not forgetting those big-ass lungs pumping out CO2 24/7.

[Uncle Skeleton]

If you would figure out how to grow a steak in a petri dish already this wouldn't be a problem anymore. Get cracking!

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Not forgetting those big-ass lungs pumping out CO2 24/7.

You know, making fun of these things does not change the facts. Fo serious. Our desire for beef, and not just beef, cheap beef, is causing environmental damage. Serious damage too.

Unfortunately few people these days even understand that meat comes from living, breathing animals - all they see is some shrink wrapped piece of meat in the supermarket. That this meat is, in many cases, intensively reared, injected with everything from water to hormones seems to bother few people.

Personally I much rather eat less but higher quality meat. Our house is in beef country, so we have access to meat from healthy, free range and/or organically raised cattle.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Mastrap 

You know, making fun of these things does not change the facts. Fo serious. Our desire for beef, and not just beef, cheap beef, is causing environmental damage. Serious damage too.

Dude, I wasn't making fun. It's just how I talk. It just sounds like I'm making fun because, hey, I'm a fun guy.

No need to tell me about the damage the beef industry is doing to the planet. I've been shouting about it for 10-odd years.

In fact, my main argument against folks who whine at me for driving a 4x4 is that they want me give up the Jeep while they carry on eating meat.

Even had a bunch of hardcore meat eaters (grate beef over their cornflakes kind of thing) whine at how much gas my Cherokee uses (exactly the same as a Focus, better than their Citroen) while I've been giving them a lift. Annoys me no end.

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

If you would figure out how to grow a steak in a petri dish already this wouldn't be a problem anymore. Get cracking!

They're working on it.

[Doofy]

They've done it. Just not in major quantities.

[Uncle Skeleton]

I don't think they have. Got a link?

[spacefreak]

Stay tuned for an additional charge on all beef products, with the funds being redirected to the Gore Carbon Credit Company.

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

2.2 lbs is a lot of beef. That's like 7 days worth for one person. 3 hours of driving is less than 7 days worth for the average person. Also, methane is not considered as important because it lingers in the atmosphere for a far shorter time. Either way, I find it far more informative to know the total output for each industry nation-wide, than to try to come up with a theoretical number of per-dose emissions.

7 days? 2.2lbs of beef is two, maybe three, burgers.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Ok, but I usually sleep for about 3 days after I eat my 1.1 lb burgers, so it's still about 7 days worth of beef.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

I don't think they have. Got a link?

No link (too busy to look ATM). Sure it passed through the BBC news site about a year back though.

[Uncle Skeleton]

I'm sure it said something like "with current technology it would be possible to grow bovine muscle cells into a steak-shaped mass," but it wouldn't have the physical properties of steak (such as the cells being attached to each other, having striations or blood vessels, or being anything other than a steak-flavored jello mold), and to top it off no one had even attempted to do this thing which "would be possible" and wouldn't taste the slightest bit steak-like. I hope I'm wrong...

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

No need to tell me about the damage the beef industry is doing to the planet. I've been shouting about it for 10-odd years.

Oh, k. Sorry. Long, busy day, went straight over my head etc...

[D. S. Troyer]

I read that farting cows contribute to global climate change. True story. If I could remember where I read it I'd provide a link.

[D. S. Troyer]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

2.2 lbs is a lot of beef. That's like 7 days worth for one person.

Not for lard ass Americans. Most eat that in one day at MacDonalds.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by Helmling 

Because of unquenchable human demand, there are more cows on Earth than people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle#Present_status

The world cattle population is estimated to be about 1.3 billion head.

[peeb]

Are they putting more carbon into the atmosphere than is being fixed by the grass they're eating? Not that meat isn't murder, and there are a lot of other reasons not to eat meat, I'm just wondering whether they are producing that much in the way of greenhouse gasses.

[typoon]

Originally Posted by D. S. Troyer 

I read that farting cows contribute to global climate change. True story. If I could remember where I read it I'd provide a link.

It's supposedly from the Methane they Produce when farting. It's also shown that termites produce methane when they are eating through a tree.

[el chupacabra]

Originally Posted by typoon 

Producing 2.2lb of beef generates as much greenhouse gas as driving a car non-stop for three hours

I wonder how long it'd be if driving in 1st gear. I wonder how long a car could last on the energy produced by an acre of grass compared to a cow.

...bla bla bla with a warming potential equivalent to 80.25lb of carbon dioxide.

All CO2 that was already in the atmosphere but absorbed by the plants, and yet less than half is being put back into the atmosphere when the cow eats it. Since most of what it eats is pooped out, or peed.
Therefor
Minus transportation, a cow + grass grown for it, = a net loss of C from the atmosphere.

But more than two thirds of the energy used goes towards producing and transporting cattle feed,

So stop eating meat so we can use that two 3rd's of energy transporting vegetables, fertilizer and Monsanto.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by el chupacabra 

I wonder how long it'd be if driving in 1st gear. I wonder how long a car could last on the energy produced by an acre of grass compared to a cow.

About 60,000 miles, conservative estimate. Assuming biodiesel production on that acre.

Oh. And you can't keep a cow on an acre. Your first cow should be getting an acre and a half.

Originally Posted by el chupacabra 

All CO2 that was already in the atmosphere but absorbed by the plants, and yet less than half is being put back into the atmosphere when the cow eats it. Since most of what it eats is pooped out, or peed.
Therefor
Minus transportation, a cow + grass grown for it, = a net loss of C from the atmosphere.

So stop eating meat so we can use that two 3rd's of energy transporting vegetables, fertilizer and Monsanto.

Completely the wrong way of looking at it. An acre of food crop will generate much the same protein as 16 acres of cow. So, go veggie and that's 15 acres left. You probably want to be rotating those crops, so give another 2 acres to crop. Throw a couple of acres over to biodiesel (that's circa 20,000 litres a year) and you still have 11 acres on which to plant trees (i.e. carbon sink).

[Mastrap]

^ Very true that.

Cutting down meat consumption is one of the best things you can do for the planet. And for your health*.











*Not as effective as giving up smoking

[nonhuman]

This is really old news. Sci Fi stories from probably as far back as the 60s have been predicting futures in which beef is outlawed or priced out of reach of all but the richest precisely because of the massive negative impact the beef industry has on the environment. Hell, in SeaQuest (don't remember if it was DSV or 2032) they foresaw damage so severe that not only was beef outlawed, but they had to build massive oxygen generators to compensate for the drop in atmospheric oxygen caused by the deforestation driven by the beef industry. I can't think of any stories tying the beef industry to global warming, but that's not really surprising as it's a fairly new hysteria.

Everyone who's been paying attention has known for years that beef is not environmentally responsible, global warming or no.

[Suikolove]

Everyone, stop posting. Your computers are causing global warming.

[TETENAL]

How green is eating Kobe beef? Since it is a Japanese study I figure they calculated that as well.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Mastrap 

Oh, k. Sorry. Long, busy day, went straight over my head etc...

No worries.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Suikolove 

Everyone, stop posting. Your computers are causing global warming.

Wouldn't it be a pisser if all these raised temperature readings they're going on were caused by the chips in the modern measuring equipment giving off convection heat which was being picked up by the sensors?

Before all the hippies pile on me with oodles of scientifically-backed ice core data and all that crap, that was a joke.

[Buckaroo]

How about smelting aluminum? I don't know if it is true, but I heard that for every pound of aluminum they smelt, they produce 1.5 pounds of carbon dioxide.

[Obi Wan's Ghost]

Beef > sh!t > fuel

[Spliffdaddy]

Doofy, clear some PMs from your inbox. I tried to apologize about the boob sigs but your inbox was full. Are you *that* popular? wtf, man. Even the almighty Spliffster has vacant inbox space.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy 

Doofy, clear some PMs from your inbox.

Done.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Wouldn't it be a pisser if all these raised temperature readings they're going on were caused by the chips in the modern measuring equipment giving off convection heat which was being picked up by the sensors?

Before all the hippies pile on me with oodles of scientifically-backed ice core data and all that crap, that was a joke.

Oh, I was going to say it sounds believable with this PowerBook sitting in my lap.

[Spliffdaddy]

I sent you a PM, Doof...but it doesn't show in my "sent items". Hope you got it.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy 

I sent you a PM, Doof...but it doesn't show in my "sent items". Hope you got it.

No, not got owt.