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von Wrangell · Jul 7, 2005, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Sherwin

Incorrect statement.

A good number were against the war.
A good number were for the war.
The vast majority didn't care either way because they were too busy doing other things, like watching Big Brother and Eastenders.

So the polls that showed that a vast majority of the English people were against this were wrong? Of course they were, stupid me. Every poll that doesn't support your worldview is wrong.

lil'babykitten · Jul 7, 2005, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by Sherwin

Their religion is incompatible with western democratic culture.

And so the Brits start with their stupidly ignorant comments.

SubGeniux · Jul 7, 2005, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by CreepingDeth

All in favor of thread lockination, say I.

This is going nowhere.

This is fcuked, honestly. Opinions like Cody's really throw me, and no wonder they bring the replies they do. When the rights of communities outside of that fcuking stupid country, the US, are eroded, it's time to fight back.

Lying fcukers, and their supporters are fcukin coks too.

I'm going for a beer.

von Wrangell · Jul 7, 2005, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Sherwin

Hey... That sounds like what Saudi does to Jews (even today).

BS. But it seems you don't have much problem with this.

Yep. Their religion is incompatible with western democratic culture. The Nation of Islam agrees with me. We leave them alone, they leave us alone. Everyone's happy.

NI are heretics. And this is the typical racist BS that has been going on all around the world for centuries. I thought that Europe were over this but I guess not.

von Wrangell · Jul 7, 2005, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by CreepingDeth

And you're a loony, irrational, paranoid, condescending little man.

If you haven't noticed, Iran is the largest state sponsor of terrorism. Their leaders, including the newly elected, have voiced their hatred of the West and of other cultures, even calling for an Islamic Revolution. It is a dangerous country. Our only Trump card are the open-minded students who hate the mullahs.

Complete and utter BS. Take some time to actually get to know a country before you want to start killing their innocent civilians.

CreepingDeth · Jul 7, 2005, 01:23 PM

You're overthetop language and insults aren't adding civility here. I'm not a damn moderator and I'm asking you guys to turn down the shitometer. God damn, this is the biggest name-calling fest since I started posting again.

I'm a gonna bail out before you guys really piss off TI. I know how banning works around here.

moodymonster · Jul 7, 2005, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by davesimondotcom

The way I see it, they have only caused simplistic minded people to hate or distrust all Muslims. Certainly that isn't a goal of theirs, is it?

thats exactly it - to divide us - to stop Muslims and others getting on.

People who do this type of thing aren't rational.

von Wrangell · Jul 7, 2005, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by davesimondotcom

All this has made me curious. And, just because I'm asking this, don't assume that I think anyone here is allied with al Queda or necessarily has any sympathies for them. I'm just asking.

What, if anything, have the actions of 9/11, 3/11 and now 7/7, along with all of the other acts of terror worldwide from kidnappings and beheadings to bombings, accomplished for al Queda? Do they have some goal that they are closer to?

To me, it just seems like the only bit of power they can feel is that bit of power they get by having people think about them and worry. Like a serial killer holding a city in fear. Only they want the whole world to feel it. But, in the end, do they advance themselves any?

The way I see it, they have only caused simplistic minded people to hate or distrust all Muslims. Certainly that isn't a goal of theirs, is it?

Good that someone in here wants an honest and good debate. This is what all Muslims that I know are asking themselves.

Unfortunately I'm too irritated about the comments the islamophobic and bloodthirsty members here have said to start a good debate on this with you. I'll be back to this point.

von Wrangell · Jul 7, 2005, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by CreepingDeth

You're overthetop language and insults aren't adding civility here. I'm not a damn moderator and I'm asking you guys to turn down the shitometer. God damn, this is the biggest name-calling fest since I started posting again.

I'm a gonna bail out before you guys really piss off TI. I know how banning works around here.

You are right and I'll try to tone it down from now on. It just pisses me off that people in the so called educated world are just as ignorant, xenophobic, racist and bloodthirsty as the people in "less developed" parts of the world. FFS people have advocated for wars on two countries in this thread, advocated throwing all Muslims out of their countries. It's just f*cking sick.

Lord.Schwarzung · Jul 7, 2005, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by SubGeniux

If there's terrorism hitting Britain, then it's all our fault as a result of our actions. No amount of Blair saying these people want to destroy our way of life is ever going to convince us.

Self-hatred is truly sad. If you were in charge during WWII we'd all be speaking German now.

Sherwin · Jul 7, 2005, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by moodymonster

thats exactly it - to divide us - to stop Muslims and others getting on.

http://pubphilosopher.blogs.com/pub_...r_drinkin.html

Yeah, we're all going to get on just fine.

von Wrangell · Jul 7, 2005, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by moodymonster

thats exactly it - to divide us - to stop Muslims and others getting on.

People who do this type of thing aren't rational.

And unfortunately they are doing a marvelous job.

Weyland-Yutani · Jul 7, 2005, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

This is the reason why we must now take down Iran.

to Iran and all countries that harbor terrorists.

Iran? You jest.

Saudi Arabia would be the nº1 country to invade if you're after those that harbor terrorists. Pakistan nº2.

cheers

W-Y

Lord.Schwarzung · Jul 7, 2005, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by CreepingDeth

You're overthetop language and insults aren't adding civility here. I'm not a damn moderator and I'm asking you guys to turn down the shitometer. God damn, this is the biggest name-calling fest since I started posting again.

I'm a gonna bail out before you guys really piss off TI. I know how banning works around here.

I agree with you here. It's too hot to handle today.

Sherwin · Jul 7, 2005, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

You are right and I'll try to tone it down from now on. It just pisses me off that people in the so called educated world are just as ignorant, xenophobic, racist and bloodthirsty as the people in "less developed" parts of the world. FFS people have advocated for wars on two countries in this thread, advocated throwing all Muslims out of their countries. It's just f*cking sick.

Nobody has mentioned racism. Except the libs.
Nobody has mentioned xenophobia. Except the libs.

If you think that islam can get along with western values and we can all play happy families, you're the ignorant one. Sorry, but that's the truth.

Cody Dawg · Jul 7, 2005, 01:32 PM

Yeah, I agree that maybe this thread should be locked - just because of a few "terrorists" er- trolls around here. But I did love this:

And you're a loony, irrational, paranoid, condescending little man.

If you haven't noticed, Iran is the largest state sponsor of terrorism. Their leaders, including the newly elected, have voiced their hatred of the West and of other cultures, even calling for an Islamic Revolution. It is a dangerous country. Our only Trump card are the open-minded students who hate the mullahs.

He's always been crazy. I think he must do too many drugs - illegal ones.

Sherwin · Jul 7, 2005, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by lil'babykitten

And so the Brits start with their stupidly ignorant comments.

Your sig is proof of concept LBK.

von Wrangell · Jul 7, 2005, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Sherwin

http://pubphilosopher.blogs.com/pub_...r_drinkin.html

Yeah, we're all going to get on just fine.

So now you want to deny Scottish/British citizens the right to speak their mind just because they are Muslims. Build a time-travelling machine and move back to Nazi-Germany. You'd fit right in!

And the hypocrisy of that site is amazing. On that very page they have a banner that states "Free expression is not offensive".

von Wrangell · Jul 7, 2005, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by Sherwin

Nobody has mentioned racism. Except the libs.
Nobody has mentioned xenophobia. Except the libs.

If you think that islam can get along with western values and we can all play happy families, you're the ignorant one. Sorry, but that's the truth.

I LIVE IN THE WEST! I VOTE IN THE WEST! YOU WOULDN'T F*CKING REALISE THAT I WAS A MUSLIM UNTIL YOU ASKED!

THE SH*T YOU SPOUT ON ABOUT ISLAM IS F*CKING INBELIEVABLY OFFENSIVE!

lil'babykitten · Jul 7, 2005, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by davesimondotcom

All this has made me curious. And, just because I'm asking this, don't assume that I think anyone here is allied with al Queda or necessarily has any sympathies for them. I'm just asking.

What, if anything, have the actions of 9/11, 3/11 and now 7/7, along with all of the other acts of terror worldwide from kidnappings and beheadings to bombings, accomplished for al Queda? Do they have some goal that they are closer to?

To me, it just seems like the only bit of power they can feel is that bit of power they get by having people think about them and worry. Like a serial killer holding a city in fear. Only they want the whole world to feel it. But, in the end, do they advance themselves any?

The way I see it, they have only caused simplistic minded people to hate or distrust all Muslims. Certainly that isn't a goal of theirs, is it?

They achieve the exact opposite of their supposed goals about protecting the Muslim world - but they are so brainwashed, so disconnected from reality whilst locked in their own narrow world vision that they don't even realise the damage they are doing, particularly to the very people they claim to be fighting in the name of.

Their continued cowardly tactics of targeting innocent civilians world wide does absolutely nothing to further their apparent 'cause'. On the contrary it ensures that Muslims worldwide remain the target of aggression.

Today it appears as though AQ are behind the attacks against a population that was and still is against the war in Iraq and has also been pressuring its leaders to do something about Africa. Furthermore, two of today's targets hit predominantly Muslim areas - Aldgate, and Edgware Road, also known as 'little Arabia'. They're also the same people killing their fellow Muslims in Iraq. These are mindless attacks by criminals.

Cody Dawg · Jul 7, 2005, 01:36 PM

BTW, do I REALLY think Iran should be nuked?

No.

But, do I REALLY think that we need to get Iran under control?

YES.

Let me tell you something: Every time bombings from terrorists occur it just strengthens the notion that maybe we need to take control over more and more places in the world. I'm 100% serious.

If the people who love their religion, Islam, REALLY care about Islamaphobia, they'd CONTROL their own radicals. Since they apparently do not care, or secretly support their terrorist activities, leave it to the more advanced countries to act as the people who WILL deal with it.

Randman · Jul 7, 2005, 01:40 PM

You people are all as sholes and should be ashamed of yourselves.

People, innocent people, have been hurt and killed in a terrorist attack. Does it matter who did it? Does it make you feel better to make stupid accusations and even sillier comments?

For the sake of whatever you believe it, have a little dignity and decency.

von Wrangell · Jul 7, 2005, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by lil'babykitten

They achieve the exact opposite of their supposed goals about protecting the Muslim world - but they are so brainwashed, so disconnected from reality whilst locked in their own narrow world vision that they don't even realise the damage they are doing, particularly to the very people they claim to be fighting in the name of.

Their continued cowardly tactics of targeting innocent civilians world wide does absolutely nothing to further their apparent 'cause'. On the contrary it ensures that Muslims worldwide remain the target of aggression.

Today it appears as though AQ are behind the attacks against a population that was and still is against the war in Iraq and has also been pressuring its leaders to do something about Africa. Furthermore, two of today's targets hit predominantly Muslim areas - Aldgate, and Edgware Road, also known as 'little Arabia'. They're also the same people killing their fellow Muslims in Iraq. These are mindless attacks by criminals.

A voice of reason. Thanks.

Sherwin · Jul 7, 2005, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

So now you want to deny Scottish/British citizens the right to speak their mind just because they are Muslims.

Interesting take.

I read it more like: So now the muslims want to deny people the right to drink outside on private property because they don't like looking at people drinking alcohol? (and remember, this is not the terrorists we're talking about - this is your common or garden everyday muslim. Yeah, we're all going to get along nicely)

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

And the hypocrisy of that site is amazing. On that very page they have a banner that states "Free expression is not offensive".

That was simply the first site in Google. The story was all over the newspapers. Google it and take your pick.

Angus_D · Jul 7, 2005, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by Troll

Gotta say it: Where are the neo-conservative who are going to say that the War on Terror is working now?

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

What the STUPID terrorists don't realize is that things like this just unite all Americans and the British together in commonality and it makes us want to kick even MORE ass - yes, that's right. Anger will motivate us to do much more, to take more action, to make SURE that there is no place that a terrorist can hide.

Bin Laden has done a pretty good job of hiding. I don't get this attitude... "We need to continue on as normal" "they will never get to us" but then "we are very angry! we will lash out randomly!"

****ing hypocrite.

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

WTF DOES IRAN HAVE TO DO WITH THIS!?!?!?!

About as much as Iraq had to do with September 11, 2001. But that didn't stop us invading.

Originally Posted by lil'babykitten

And so the Brits start with their stupidly ignorant comments.

There are idiots everywhere. Please don't generalise like that.

Anyway, fortunately I'm OK and nobody I know has been hurt as far as I know so far. It's fairly distressing it being so close to home, though - I passed through Kings Cross just the other day, which is unusual for me; people I know work very close by, etc.

von Wrangell · Jul 7, 2005, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

BTW, do I REALLY think Iran should be nuked?

No.

But, do I REALLY think that we need to get Iran under control?

YES.

Let me tell you something: Every time bombings from terrorists occur it just strengthens the notion that maybe we need to take control over more and more places in the world. I'm 100% serious.

If the people who love their religion, Islam, REALLY care about Islamaphobia, they'd CONTROL their own radicals. Since they apparently do not care, or secretly support their terrorist activities, leave it to the more advanced countries to act as the people who WILL deal with it.

How are people suppressed by oppressive regimes sponsored by the west supposed to do anything at all against people no one knows is a terrorist or a terrorist in the making? And please stop this labeling Muslims as "don't care about terrorism, they support terrorism or are less developed". It's f*cking offensive!

von Wrangell · Jul 7, 2005, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by Angus_D

Anyway, fortunately I'm OK and nobody I know has been hurt as far as I know so far. It's fairly distressing it being so close to home, though - I passed through Kings Cross just the other day, which is unusual for me; people I know work very close by, etc.

Good to hear. Stay strong.

Sherwin · Jul 7, 2005, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

I LIVE IN THE WEST! I VOTE IN THE WEST! YOU WOULDN'T F*CKING REALISE THAT I WAS A MUSLIM UNTIL YOU ASKED!

That's why I'd ask.

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

THE SH*T YOU SPOUT ON ABOUT ISLAM IS F*CKING INBELIEVABLY OFFENSIVE!

No more offensive than the stuff your religion spouts about Christianity.

ThinkInsane · Jul 7, 2005, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by Randman

You people are all as sholes and should be ashamed of yourselves.

People, innocent people, have been hurt and killed in a terrorist attack. Does it matter who did it? Does it make you feel better to make stupid accusations and even sillier comments?

For the sake of whatever you believe it, have a little dignity and decency.

Finally, a post worth quoting.

Could you people please keep it civil. What ever the weight this incident adds to your on going political feud, please keep in mind that innocent people are dead, many more are wounded, and plenty are mourning the loss of loved ones. There;s plenty of time for finger pointing and I told you so's. Now is not the time.

davesimondotcom · Jul 7, 2005, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by lil'babykitten

They achieve the exact opposite of their supposed goals about protecting the Muslim world - but they are so brainwashed, so disconnected from reality whilst locked in their own narrow world vision that they don't even realise the damage they are doing, particularly to the very people they claim to be fighting in the name of.

Their continued cowardly tactics of targeting innocent civilians world wide does absolutely nothing to further their apparent 'cause'. On the contrary it ensures that Muslims worldwide remain the target of aggression.

Today it appears as though AQ are behind the attacks against a population that was and still is against the war in Iraq and has also been pressuring its leaders to do something about Africa. Furthermore, two of today's targets hit predominantly Muslim areas - Aldgate, and Edgware Road, also known as 'little Arabia'. They're also the same people killing their fellow Muslims in Iraq. These are mindless attacks by criminals.

Why don't we have a hug smiley? Anyway, LBK earns at least a

von Wrangell · Jul 7, 2005, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by Sherwin

Interesting take.

I read it more like: So now the muslims want to deny people the right to drink outside on private property because they don't like looking at people drinking alcohol? (and remember, this is not the terrorists we're talking about - this is your common or garden everyday muslim. Yeah, we're all going to get along nicely)

Again, this is the right of every citizen in a country. This is their opinion and they have the same right to speak their mind as you. Just cause you disagree with them doesn't make it all about Muslim Domination of the World™.

That was simply the first site in Google. The story was all over the newspapers. Google it and take your pick.

And so what if it was all over the news? It's their right. Or do you now want to remove their citizenship because they don't agree with you? Oh, yeah. You had already answered that. You want them all shipped out of Britain.

Angus_D · Jul 7, 2005, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

Good to hear. Stay strong.

Cheers.

Today was the last day of school, and there was supposed to be a big party this evening up in central London not far from Russel Square (where the bus was bombed). Obviously that has been cancelled on a logistical basis as much as anything, which is annoying. We're going for drinks more locally instead, though, and hopefully we'll reschedule for a later date.

von Wrangell · Jul 7, 2005, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by Sherwin

That's why I'd ask.

Yes, so you could label me something you wasn't able to see when you met me. If you can't see the implications of your way of "thinking" you are in need of seriousl help.

No more offensive than the stuff your religion spouts about Christianity.

My religion doesn't spout anything about Christianity other than (mostly) two disagreements. We don't label all Christians terrorists, and we don't want to ship you all back to your own countries. I can promise you there is more of a disagreement between Christians over what Christianity is than it is between the majority of Muslims and Christians. Time to ship those Christians you don't agree with out of your country as well?

Sherwin · Jul 7, 2005, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

Again, this is the right of every citizen in a country. This is their opinion and they have the same right to speak their mind as you. Just cause you disagree with them doesn't make it all about Muslim Domination of the World™.

And so what if it was all over the news? It's their right. Or do you now want to remove their citizenship because they don't agree with you? Oh, yeah. You had already answered that. You want them all shipped out of Britain.

Let me explain something to you about freedom and democracy in the west. We make our own choice. If we want to drink beer we do. If you don't want to drink beer, you don't have to. But you have no rights whatsoever to stop us from drinking it by denying us planning permission for the facilities to do so.

That's how freedom works. You should experiment with it sometime.

von Wrangell · Jul 7, 2005, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by Angus_D

Cheers.

Today was the last day of school, and there was supposed to be a big party this evening up in central London not far from Russel Square (where the bus was bombed). Obviously that has been cancelled on a logistical basis as much as anything, which is annoying. We're going for drinks more locally instead, though, and hopefully we'll reschedule for a later date.

Good to hear and please keep going on with your life. That is the best way to deal with this.

And a just a short suggestion(I'm hoping you don't share Sherwins views): If you see a Muslim or an Arab, say hello or smile and nod. You can't imagine how much that is worth at the moment.

von Wrangell · Jul 7, 2005, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by Sherwin

Let me explain something to you about freedom and democracy in the west. We make our own choice. If we want to drink beer we do. If you don't want to drink beer, you don't have to. But you have no rights whatsoever to stop us from drinking it by denying us planning permission for the facilities to do so.

That's how freedom works. You should experiment with it sometime.

We have the right to voice our opinion. We are allowed to express our opinion on whatever matter that concerns our countries. You don't have to agree with us. That is also your right.

Sherwin · Jul 7, 2005, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

We don't label all Christians terrorists, and we don't want to ship you all back to your own countries.

I'm guessing that suras 9:29, 5:51 and 2:193 are missing from your koran then?

Angus_D · Jul 7, 2005, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by Sherwin

Let me explain something to you about freedom and democracy in the west. We make our own choice. If we want to drink beer we do. If you don't want to drink beer, you don't have to. But you have no rights whatsoever to stop us from drinking it by denying us planning permission for the facilities to do so.

That's how freedom works. You should experiment with it sometime.

Give it a rest. You clearly have no clue.

Randman · Jul 7, 2005, 02:01 PM

It's ironic that both sides are talking religion because all of you idiots are not acting like good Christians or good Muslims at this time. I'll avoid this thread from now.

ink · Jul 7, 2005, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

Well, attacking the terrorists obviously hasn't helped so perhaps it's time to go back to the same methods that were used before 9/11.

Because that worked so well before 9/11?

von Wrangell · Jul 7, 2005, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by Sherwin

I'm guessing that suras 9:29, 5:51 and 2:193 are missing from your koran then?

Good for you. You've shown that you are able to connect letters into words and words into sentences. Now you just need to learn how to connect sentences into paragraphs, paragraphs into chapters and chapters into understanding and you've mastered something called reading comprehension.

Sherwin · Jul 7, 2005, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by Angus_D

Give it a rest. You clearly have no clue.

Obviously not.

von Wrangell · Jul 7, 2005, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by Randman

It's ironic that both sides are talking religion because all of you idiots are not acting like good Christians or good Muslims at this time. I'll avoid this thread from now.

And besides being very irritated and defending my religion and brothers and sisters in belief what has made me a "bad Muslims"?

Sherwin · Jul 7, 2005, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

Good for you. You've shown that you are able to connect letters into words and words into sentences. Now you just need to learn how to connect sentences into paragraphs, paragraphs into chapters and chapters into understanding and you've mastered something called reading comprehension.

So enlighten me. What's your comprehension of those suras then?

von Wrangell · Jul 7, 2005, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by ink

Because that worked so well before 9/11?

Yes, terrorist attacks were getting fewer and fewer. One big attack does not mean that the former methods were wrong. They might need to be refined but going from them to the constant barrage of invasions, killing civilians, supporting dictatorships even more than before and spouting xenophobic crap is not the way to go.

von Wrangell · Jul 7, 2005, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Sherwin

So enlighten me. What's your comprehension of those suras then?

If you really think that I'm gonna spend my time educating you after all the sh*t you've dished out you are wrong. Visit various sites(not the hatesites you have bookmarked) like understanding-islam.org you can educate yourself. I'm not gonna spend my time educating you. Not after all the sh*t you've thrown.

CreepingDeth · Jul 7, 2005, 02:16 PM

Uh-oh. Looks like it hasn't gotten any better.

[FONT=Courier New]Everyone.[/FONT]

Thread neededs teh lockination.

Sherwin · Jul 7, 2005, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

If you really think that I'm gonna spend my time educating you after all the sh*t you've dished out you are wrong. Visit various sites(not the hatesites you have bookmarked) like understanding-islam.org you can educate yourself. I'm not gonna spend my time educating you. Not after all the sh*t you've thrown.

You misunderstand. I asked for your comprehension of those suras, not that of various web sites. I don't need to be educated. I simply want your interpretation.

Randman · Jul 7, 2005, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by CreepingDeth

Uh-oh. Looks like it hasn't gotten any better.

[FONT=Courier New]Everyone.[/FONT]

Thread neededs teh lockination.

von Wrangell · Jul 7, 2005, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Sherwin

You misunderstand. I asked for your comprehension of those suras, not that of various web sites. I don't need to be educated. I simply want your interpretation.

Did you not read my above post? I'm not going to spend my time educating you after the sh*t you've dished out.