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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > iPhone, iPad & iPod > The next tv. iPhone OS based, 1080p, and $99

The next tv. iPhone OS based, 1080p, and $99
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imitchellg5
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May 28, 2010, 12:10 PM
 
From Engadget today.

This sounds awesome, at a glance. I do hope there is more storage though. But the concept is sweet.
     
The Final Dakar
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May 28, 2010, 12:11 PM
 
More fuel for the iTunes anywhere fire. Not sure how much I like the streaming concept, but at $99 I'm sure I'll be willing to try one in the living room.
     
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May 28, 2010, 12:22 PM
 
Hoping this is at least mostly true. I've been holding off on AppleTV until it matured enough to not be a hobby for Apple. And at $99 I can't pass that up. Streaming doesn't bother me at all. But I could see that being an issue if you don't have a good internet connection. My dad has no choice but to use Clearwire where he lives and it sucks balls. Just barely better than satellite. So streaming from the internet will not work for him. Local streaming would be fine though.
     
The Final Dakar
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May 28, 2010, 12:24 PM
 
My issue is I'm notorious for skipping 10+ tracks in a row on shuffle. Having a responsive connection is key here.
     
imitchellg5  (op)
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May 28, 2010, 12:35 PM
 
I use local streaming as it is for all of my video via my Time Capsule, so I think this'll fit in rather well for me.
     
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May 28, 2010, 12:39 PM
 
Very interesting. I wonder, as it is iPhone OS-based in theory, would it allow for the installation of applications? I'm thinking specifically of AirVideo, allowing for the use of non-iTunes store movie streaming as well?
     
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May 28, 2010, 01:52 PM
 
Most likely fabricated by those AAPL owners who want to sell at an extremely high price, right before the sad realization that Steve is not announcing any of this.

The A4 can only decode h264. It is not a good core for an AppleTV replacement.
     
hadocon
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May 28, 2010, 02:09 PM
 
You are watching a lot of non .h264 on your iTV? What other files are you playing?
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analogue SPRINKLES
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May 28, 2010, 03:06 PM
 
Other than the price I don't see what the difference is in terms of watching/renting/ shows and movies.

If it had motion control remote and could play iPhone games and apps thought that would be sweet.
     
imitchellg5  (op)
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May 28, 2010, 03:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Godfather View Post
Most likely fabricated by those AAPL owners who want to sell at an extremely high price, right before the sad realization that Steve is not announcing any of this.
I highly doubt that. Engadget doesn't run Apple rumours unless they're very sure about them.
     
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May 28, 2010, 03:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Other than the price I don't see what the difference is in terms of watching/renting/ shows and movies.

If it had motion control remote and could play iPhone games and apps thought that would be sweet.
I'm wondering if thats the whole reason with going with the iPhone OS for this. It would be pretty neat to be able to use your iPhone or iPod touch (or iPad) as a controller for the games that can play on your TV screen.

This is possibly turning out to be a pretty hefty keynote. Lots of fun rumors floating about.
     
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May 28, 2010, 04:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Other than the price I don't see what the difference is in terms of watching/renting/ shows and movies.

If it had motion control remote and could play iPhone games and apps thought that would be sweet.
Apps, apps, apps. They have the infrastructure to open up the device if it is running iphone os that they didn't have when it was running osx. Granted, they could have just made it a free-for-all, but controlling the app experience on the TV may be even more important than controlling it on the iphone.

But, as to your point about watching/renting video--there probably won't be much difference, which is exactly the point. This rumor seems to indicate that Apple will be making some huge changes to how iTunes works though. Things will now be cloud based and your devices will get your media from the cloud.
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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May 28, 2010, 05:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by kman42 View Post
Apps, apps, apps. They have the infrastructure to open up the device if it is running iphone os that they didn't have when it was running osx. Granted, they could have just made it a free-for-all, but controlling the app experience on the TV may be even more important than controlling it on the iphone.
Yes I agree it is all about the Apps but how they hell do you interact with them? I'm having a hard time picturing people having to use their iPhones/touches or that simple IR remote apple sells to interact with Super AppleTV.

You can't touch the TV, you don't want to use that 4 way directional pad on the IR remote and an enter button to play a game or launch a program.

A camera wouldn't work for motion controls as it needs good lighting and some heavy CPU lifting. I don't think they will use something as cheap as the WIi's IR.

Ideally a remote with some sort of gyro would be nice but I think that might be hoping for too much.
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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May 28, 2010, 06:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by kman42 View Post
But, as to your point about watching/renting video--there probably won't be much difference, which is exactly the point.
I think more than exactly the point that is exactly the problem.

Me nor anyone I know want an Apple TV as we don't JUST want to rent TV shows and movies from apple and have our music play on our TV's. People want some sort of PVR built in but more importantly be able to play files that aren't just in MP4.

If the new AppleTV still only lets me play rented crap from Apple I am no more interested than before.
     
kman42
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May 28, 2010, 07:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
I think more than exactly the point that is exactly the problem.

Me nor anyone I know want an Apple TV as we don't JUST want to rent TV shows and movies from apple and have our music play on our TV's. People want some sort of PVR built in but more importantly be able to play files that aren't just in MP4.

If the new AppleTV still only lets me play rented crap from Apple I am no more interested than before.
Apps, apps, apps. You'll be able to get content from any provider that wants to write an app, just as you can on the iPhone: netflix, ABC are good examples. Others will follow.

In addition, you'll be able to stream whatever you want from your computer using e.g. Video Share or whatever that iPad app is called. That app even lets you stream non-MP4 stuff as it transcodes in realtime on your mac before streaming. I've never used it so I don't know the quality, but probably not 1080p.

The point is that the possibilities are endless once you open it up to apps.

The input is another question. I'm guessing that Apple will provide a basic remote and also allow iPhone/iPod/iPad integration. Then app developers can write simple apps controlled by the remote using a menu-based system, or they can require you to use an iDevice for input, their choice. Bluetooth keyboards also seem likely.
     
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May 28, 2010, 08:42 PM
 
This has all the feel of an official leak to me, rather than a rumor. Google got a *lot* of praise last week over the GoogleTV announcement and Apple was raked over the coals for letting AppleTV flounder. Given the timing, this looks like Apple saying "me too".
     
ort888
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May 28, 2010, 11:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Yes I agree it is all about the Apps but how they hell do you interact with them? I'm having a hard time picturing people having to use their iPhones/touches or that simple IR remote apple sells to interact with Super AppleTV.

You can't touch the TV, you don't want to use that 4 way directional pad on the IR remote and an enter button to play a game or launch a program.

A camera wouldn't work for motion controls as it needs good lighting and some heavy CPU lifting. I don't think they will use something as cheap as the WIi's IR.

Ideally a remote with some sort of gyro would be nice but I think that might be hoping for too much.
The remote would be an iPhone, iPad or iPod Touch.

For $99 I would probably make the plunge.

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Wiskedjak
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May 29, 2010, 09:24 AM
 
I love how the "rumor" makes certain to mention that Apple's been working on this since before the GoogleTV announcement. Makes me think it's more likely the exact opposite. "Screenless-iPhone" sounds even more like a rapid response rather than something that's been in the works for a while.
     
subego
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May 29, 2010, 03:12 PM
 
I thought similar things. Both that the leak was intentional, and they may have put it together in response to Google. I'm more convinced of the former.

I think a lot of the praise Google is getting is unwarranted. IR blasters suck. I mean really, really suck.
     
Wiskedjak
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May 29, 2010, 03:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I think a lot of the praise Google is getting is unwarranted. IR blasters suck. I mean really, really suck.
True. But, that's Logitech's implementation of Google's software, not Google.
     
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May 29, 2010, 05:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
I love how the "rumor" makes certain to mention that Apple's been working on this since before the GoogleTV announcement. Makes me think it's more likely the exact opposite. "Screenless-iPhone" sounds even more like a rapid response rather than something that's been in the works for a while.
I dunno. I don't think Steve would allow any Apple product to be thrown together quickly in response to something from the competition. I think this has been in the works for quite some time.
     
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May 29, 2010, 05:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by msuper69 View Post
I dunno. I don't think Steve would allow any Apple product to be thrown together quickly in response to something from the competition. I think this has been in the works for quite some time.
I think he would if everyone were oooing and ahhhing over something that competes with an Apple product rather than that Apple product. I especially think he would if journalists were suggesting that Apple dropped the ball with the Apple TV relative to Google TV.
     
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May 31, 2010, 02:10 AM
 
You really think products like this have a development cycle measured in weeks?

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subego
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May 31, 2010, 06:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
True. But, that's Logitech's implementation of Google's software, not Google.
I assumed Google wasn't planning on doing an implementation. Like Android.


Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
I think he would if everyone were oooing and ahhhing over something that competes with an Apple product rather than that Apple product. I especially think he would if journalists were suggesting that Apple dropped the ball with the Apple TV relative to Google TV.
What makes me skeptical is that Apple's already pinned themselves down (somewhat) on a form factor.
     
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May 31, 2010, 08:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - View Post
You really think products like this have a development cycle measured in weeks?
Absolutely. The hardware is a non-issue since the architecture (iPhone/iPad) already exists. The only necessary changes would be to remove screen and battery from the production line and incorporate it into a shell that accommodates video out and power in (which already exists in the form of a the Universal Dock). Are they going to have the hardware in production this week? No. But, they could spin it into a press leak pretty easily.

Software also shouldn't be too much of an issue. Apple's shown us how quickly they can turn with iPhone OS software and all they really need to do is port the AppleTV software over to the iPhone OS platform.

According to the rumor/leak, they're not making anything new here; they're just re-purposing an existing product.
     
Wiskedjak
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May 31, 2010, 08:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I assumed Google wasn't planning on doing an implementation. Like Android.
Exactly, which means that Logitech isn't the only implementation. The DirectTV implementation, for example, won't need IR blasters to control the TV set-top-box, since it *is* the TV set-top-box.
     
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May 31, 2010, 10:50 AM
 
If it's iPhone os and apps on a TV my first thought is how to control it. it could talk to iPhones and iPod touches, but what if you don't have one of those? It needs somekind of remote in the box, a wifi/Bluetooth Apple Remote, an Apple version of a Wii remote, or a stripped down iPod touch which is basically a wifi/Bluetooth touch sensor, no storage, maybe no screen so it's just a handheld trackpad?

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
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May 31, 2010, 11:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
The remote would be an iPhone, iPad or iPod Touch.

For $99 I would probably make the plunge.
Oh ok right cuz everyone already has one or more of those 3 things.

So I can look forward to the all new cheaper $99 AppleTV but as soon as I take it out of the box I have to go but a $199 iPod Touch, $800 iPhone, or $499 iPad to use as a remote. Here's hoping all the games are single player as I will go broke on a 4 player game.

Even so I still don't get how using an iWhatever would made a good control method. What I touch my iPhone and it reacts on screen? What if I don't use it for 2 minutes will the iPhone screen lock and overtime I want to use it I can unlock it?

PREDICTION FAIL!
     
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May 31, 2010, 11:51 AM
 
Scrabble on the tv would be fun.
     
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May 31, 2010, 12:08 PM
 
Hmm. An iPod touch without a screen. Enough flash to buffer the streamed data and just enough OS to push it out the docking port.

1080p and a decent source for movies and I might be interested.

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May 31, 2010, 12:32 PM
 
cheap tvs + streaming can replace cable companies the way cheap iPods + iTunes are replacing music distributors. I hope it happens.
     
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May 31, 2010, 12:37 PM
 
unfortunately the cable guys are trying to head off such a future with GB caps. In principle I have no problem with a tiered arrangement in competitive markets, but not if they're doing it in non-competitive markets (presumably to discourage digital media, but they're too smart to ever write it in an internal email or memo).
     
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May 31, 2010, 01:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Absolutely. The hardware is a non-issue since the architecture (iPhone/iPad) already exists. The only necessary changes would be to remove screen and battery from the production line and incorporate it into a shell that accommodates video out and power in (which already exists in the form of a the Universal Dock). Are they going to have the hardware in production this week? No. But, they could spin it into a press leak pretty easily.

Software also shouldn't be too much of an issue. Apple's shown us how quickly they can turn with iPhone OS software and all they really need to do is port the AppleTV software over to the iPhone OS platform.

According to the rumor/leak, they're not making anything new here; they're just re-purposing an existing product.
It would take weeks just to get the form factor nailed down - if they rushed it. And Apple does not rush anything. Then they'd need to get the software running and looking good enough to present next week. Again, not enough time and definitely not Apple's style.

I'm positive that if this rumor is true, Apple has had this in the works for a while. I could see a scenario where this particular iteration of AppleTV was being experimented with but hadn't been given the blessing to released. But after seeing Googles announcement they went ahead and decided to get the current iteration out the door. But still, that's really not Apple's game.

Apple is in a position where they don't need to rush anything out based on a competitors announcement. If Google's TV thing was out and showing to be a big success Apple might start to sweat.

Remember this is the company that took over a year to get basic smartphone functionality in their star product (cut & paste) because they wanted to do it right.
     
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May 31, 2010, 05:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Exactly, which means that Logitech isn't the only implementation. The DirectTV implementation, for example, won't need IR blasters to control the TV set-top-box, since it *is* the TV set-top-box.
Who's going to implement it?

I wouldn't hold my breath for cable providers. There's some good reasons there weren't any cable people at e introduction. Even if you could convince them it was a good idea to watch TV on Hulu instead of on, well... cable, how long does it take for cable companies to roll stuff out? As an egregious example, look at the TiVo-Comcast box which was announced five years ago, and still isn't available.

Implementation (which doesn't suck) by a non cable provider? Only if they don't mind providing guide data for every cable provider in the country... Forever.
     
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May 31, 2010, 05:51 PM
 
Could the iPad's Apple CPU really play 1080p video with lossless audio on giant TV's?

The Apple TV currently cannot.
     
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May 31, 2010, 06:15 PM
 
Here's another possible succession of events:
+ Apple lets Google wade into the virgin market of smart set top boxes
+ Google partners with HTC or ASUS to make the Nexus One of STBs
+ Apple takes notes on the complaints and missed opportunities in the design of Google TV
+ 90% of consumers don't buy into the idea of yet another peripheral on top of the DVD
+ Apple announces product with all the right features and design ideas, priced to steamroll Google before the anniversary of Jesus Christ.
     
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May 31, 2010, 07:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Absolutely. The hardware is a non-issue since the architecture (iPhone/iPad) already exists. The only necessary changes would be to remove screen and battery from the production line and incorporate it into a shell that accommodates video out and power in (which already exists in the form of a the Universal Dock). Are they going to have the hardware in production this week? No. But, they could spin it into a press leak pretty easily.

Software also shouldn't be too much of an issue. Apple's shown us how quickly they can turn with iPhone OS software and all they really need to do is port the AppleTV software over to the iPhone OS platform.

According to the rumor/leak, they're not making anything new here; they're just re-purposing an existing product.
According to John Gruber, the code for the new apple tv (K66) has been in the sdk for iPhone OS4 for months now. This wasn't just a couple of weeks in the works.

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May 31, 2010, 08:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by ::maroma:: View Post
It would take weeks just to get the form factor nailed down
Have you seen a form factor yet? We don't even have a rumored release date. It would be easy enough for Apple to have a well-designed form factor for a Fall announcement and Spring shipping. And, really, they could easily go with and justify a refactored/shrunk AppleTV design.
     
Wiskedjak
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May 31, 2010, 08:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by jokell82 View Post
According to John Gruber, the code for the new apple tv (K66) has been in the sdk for iPhone OS4 for months now. This wasn't just a couple of weeks in the works.
Where exactly does Gruber connect K66 with the new Apple TV?

I'm willing to be wrong on my speculation, but so far the only connection I see between Apple TV and K66 is *also* speculation.
     
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May 31, 2010, 08:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Could the iPad's Apple CPU really play 1080p video with lossless audio on giant TV's?
I'm sure the video chip does all the work.

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May 31, 2010, 08:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Where exactly does Gruber connect K66 with the new Apple TV?

I'm willing to be wrong on my speculation, but so far the only connection I see between Apple TV and K66 is *also* speculation.
He doesn't say, but he never says and he is almost always right.

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imitchellg5  (op)
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May 31, 2010, 09:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Could the iPad's Apple CPU really play 1080p video with lossless audio on giant TV's?

The Apple TV currently cannot.
The 3GS can handle 1080p.
     
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May 31, 2010, 11:12 PM
 
I predicted this switch to the iPhone OS long ago. AppStore for AppleTV would make the product an instant hit.
     
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Jun 2, 2010, 12:32 PM
 
I wonder if iTunes Live isn't your music library anywhere, but Apple's answer to Netflix.
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Jun 2, 2010, 04:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
The 3GS can handle 1080p.
And lossless audio? Can the iPhone output 1080P to a TV?
     
-Q-
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Jun 2, 2010, 05:41 PM
 
Interesting comments from SJ regarding consumer's lack of desire to "buy a box."

Steve Jobs on TV: 'no one wants to buy a box' -- Engadget

Makes me think the rumor is now just someone's wishful thinking (not that SJ has *ever* said something contrary prior to introducing a new product).

But if it is true, iPhone OS inside of a TV (like that Android TV from Sweden) rather than a box?
     
The Final Dakar
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Jun 2, 2010, 05:47 PM
 
Steve also said no one would want to watch video on an iPod. Typical spin.
     
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Jun 2, 2010, 05:51 PM
 
He seriously believed that nobody would want to watch video on an iPod. That wasn't spin.

He caved in to customer requests.

Interview at TED 2007, IIRC.
     
imitchellg5  (op)
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Jun 4, 2010, 08:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
And lossless audio? Can the iPhone output 1080P to a TV?
I have no clue about lossless audio. If you care enough about quality to have lossless audio, I doubt you're going to be streaming anything...

No it can't because Apple makes no way to connect the iPhone to anything that allows it to output 1080p. My point is that the A4 is plenty powerful enough, especially if the 3GS's processor can handle it.
     
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Jun 4, 2010, 11:01 PM
 
I'm thinkin' there might be a new AppleTV announced on Monday.

Reason: My AppleTV started acting up this evening.
     
 
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