[Troll]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3585765.stm

The cars were set on fire and the burnt bodies of the occupants were dragged out, mutilated and dismembered by angry crowds, witnesses said.

It is not clear who the victims of the latest attack are, although a US passport was apparently filmed beside one of the bodies.

Witnesses said residents struck the bodies with shovels, cutting off parts of them while shouting "long live Islam".

"The people of Falluja hanged some of the bodies on the old bridge like slaughtered sheep," said local resident Abdul Aziz Mohammed.

This is absolutely horrific and I don't want anyone to think I support this barbary. However, it does illustrate for me that the allegations that the violence in Iraq is all perpetrated by foreign terrorists is bull*. It seems that the violence is no longer even just restricted to organised resistance and militia. Now, even the person in the street is involved. Falluja has always been a violent place but having the people in the street set a car on fire, then rip the carbonised bodies out and chop them up before hanging them from a bridge. I'm sorry, but there is a level of hatred in Falluja that suggests to me that Iraq is descending into chaos rather than rising phoenix-like from the ashes!

[lil'babykitten]

ugh, yeah I saw that article earlier...horrific.

I've noticed that the media in general have been 'quiet' on the situation in Iraq recently. It gives the impression that things are calming down. Obviously, Faulluja was never a particularly peaceful area from the start of the occupation. It's worrying because I'm not so sure Iraq is as stable as the coalition forces would have us believe.

What will happen with the supposed handover in June/July? It's a situation that grows more unstable day by day.

[eklipse]

Callin' out around the world--
Are you ready for a brand new beat?
Summer's here and the time is right
For dancin' in the streets.

They're dancin' in Falluja,
Down in Umm Qasr,
Up in Baghdad City.

All we need is music (sweet music),
Sweet music (sweet music).
There'll be music everywhere (everywhere);
There'll be swingin' and swayin' and records playin'
And dancin' in the streets.

Oh, it doesn't matter what you wear
Just as long as you are there.
So come on, every guy (come on) grab a girl
Everywhere around the world.
There'll be dancing---
They're dancing in the street

This is an invitation
Across the nation;
A chance for the folks to meet.
There'll be laughin', singin', and music swingin'
And dancin' in the streets.........

[Ayelbourne]

Originally posted by eklipse:
There'll be dancing---
They're dancing in the street

Unfortunately, it seems that they are.

[swrate]

Alarming to reach that point of collective hatred and hysteria.

[BRussell]

Wow, that's some bad stuff. I see on CNN's website that they're saying 3 of the 4 civilians were Americans. They hung their charred bodies over a bridge. I wonder if this will have the same type of impact as Mogadishu.

[Zimphire]

Yes, a group of people = ALL OF IRAQ.

I wonder if Foreigners thought Timothy McVay = All of America.

No one ever said there wouldn't be some resistance.

These people do not, I repeat do not speak for all of Iraq.

[Logic]

Originally posted by BRussell:
Wow, that's some bad stuff. I see on CNN's website that they're saying 3 of the 4 civilians were Americans. They hung their charred bodies over a bridge. I wonder if this will have the same type of impact as Mogadishu.

Depends on if this will be shown in the US media. Not just some little photos but actually shown and focused on.

[BRussell]

Originally posted by Logic:
Depends on if this will be shown in the US media. Not just some little photos but actually shown and focused on.

They certainly were shown and focused on when something similar happened in Mogadishu, but they're already censoring them here. I don't disagree with censoring them - I don't think they need to show burning bodies on TV - but there seems to be a double standard.

I'm sorry, but those folks dancing around burning bodies are absolute animals.

[saab95]

Just goes to show why I disagreed with Bush's handling of Iraq.

America should have bombed the whole region out of existence.

Prior to the overthrow of Saddam, a botched operation, in my opinion, the good Iraqis were in exile.

We never got a solid surrender from pro-Saddam forces. This is what we get for not fighting a principled war.

I have no sympathy for fundamentalist Muslims. Absolutely none. They sponsored, enabled, and participated in the brutal terrorism of 9-11. They are a major influence in the Middle East.

Hell will freeze over before I regard these savages as oppressed humans in need of help, like many leftists do..

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by saab95:
America should have bombed the whole region out of existence.

[Dakar]

Reminds me of that incident in Somalia. It sickens me to think people are capable of taking such joy in death of people and then further celebrate by desecrating the bodies.

I don't know what else to say...

[yakkiebah]

Originally posted by saab95:
Just goes to show why I disagreed with Bush's handling of Iraq.

America should have bombed the whole region out of existence.

Prior to the overthrow of Saddam, a botched operation, in my opinion, the good Iraqis were in exile.

We never got a solid surrender from pro-Saddam forces. This is what we get for not fighting a principled war.

I have no sympathy for fundamentalist Muslims. Absolutely none. They sponsored, enabled, and participated in the brutal terrorism of 9-11. They are a major influence in the Middle East.

Hell will freeze over before I regard these savages as oppressed humans in need of help, like many leftists do..

wow. imagine the rage if you were an iraqi...

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Yes, a group of people = ALL OF IRAQ.

I wonder if Foreigners thought Timothy McVay = All of America.

No one ever said there wouldn't be some resistance.

These people do not, I repeat do not speak for all of Iraq.

strange. when the people were dancing in the streets (all 200 of them) I recall saying they didn't speak for all of Iraq...do you recall what your response was then to my suggestion?

[kvm_mkdb]

Originally posted by BRussell:
I'm sorry, but those folks dancing around burning bodies are absolute animals.

Yes. I remember thinking the same when I saw people cheering, dancing and slapping high-fives watching the shock-and-awe...

This is no different. Oh wait - it is different: we started it.

[saab95]

Aren't mobs wonderful?

[thunderous_funker]

It truly is a sign of spiralling violence, however let's not mistake "civilian" for just some shmoe in Iraq. It is being reported that they were employees of Blackwater Security Consulting, a defense contractor that is doing security in the region. That probably means they were armed and directly involved in military operations--even if the operations are considered a peacetime operation like security. And considering Blackwater's background, it is also highly likely that they were former military.

Obviously that doesn't make this act of barbarism any less gruesome or indefensible, but already I've seen these reports misrepresented like these 4 unfortunate victims were simply tourists or something.

To me that marks this as part of the ongoing (and escalating) guerilla war against the US occupational forces and less of a hate crime or random violence.

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by saab95:
America should have bombed the whole region out of existence.

Bush should give the innocent people of the Sunni triangle 72 hours to get out, then level the whole place. We know that this area in particular is where these savage skumbags frolic.

[eklipse]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
Bush should give the innocent people of the Sunni triangle 72 hours to get out, then level the whole place. We know that this area in particular is where these savage skumbags frolic.

Yes. That will solve the problem. Definitely.

But, if it doesn't, there's still the option to nuke the entire country to ashes, right?

[thunderous_funker]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
Bush should give the innocent people of the Sunni triangle 72 hours to get out, then level the whole place. We know that this area in particular is where these savage skumbags frolic.

Way to cut the Gordian Knot.

I suppose we just have to install innocent-O-meters at the exists so none of the evildoers slip out amoung the rest.

As for leveling the place, I'm curious if that would solve Washington DC's crime problems as well.

But perhaps collective punishment is part of the problem rather than a half-arsed solution, no?

[SubGeniux]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Yes, a group of people = ALL OF IRAQ.

I wonder if Foreigners thought Timothy McVay = All of America.

No one ever said there wouldn't be some resistance.

These people do not, I repeat do not speak for all of Iraq.

Yes, they do, they echo a sentiment of anti-American opinion. Just because we don';t see every Iraqis killing people, does not mean they are in agreement of the US being there.
Some people are so scared of hearing that their nation is not wanted in Iraq, and will close their ears to anything that proves them wrong.

I'm not long back from Iraq, an Zim, you are so utterly wrong in your assertion, but hey, I guess that's what happens while couped up watching FOX, and listening to Messrs. Cheney, Bush, etc.

[SubGeniux]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
Bush should give the innocent people of the Sunni triangle 72 hours to get out, then level the whole place. We know that this area in particular is where these savage skumbags frolic.

Here we go again. Telling people in their own land how to live, wondering why they are fighting an occupying force, and yet we here the aplogists for Israel who are doing somethnig similar to the Iraqis, in the same breath.

[thunderous_funker]

Recent article discussing the role of "security" contractors.

From the Independent/UK:
Occupiers Spend Millions on Private Army of Security Men

An army of thousands of mercenaries has appeared in Iraq's major cities, many of them former British and American soldiers hired by the occupying Anglo-American authorities and by dozens of companies who fear for the lives of their employees.

Many of the armed Britons are former SAS soldiers and heavily armed South Africans are also working for the occupation. "My people know how to use weapons and they're all SAS," said the British leader of one security team in southern Baghdad. "But there are people running around with guns now who are just cowboys. We always conceal our weapons, but these guys think they're in a Hollywood film."

There are serious doubts even within the occupying power about America's choice to send Chilean mercenaries, many trained during General Pinochet's vicious dictatorship, to guard Baghdad airport. Many South Africans are in Iraq illegally - they are breaking new laws, passed by the government in Pretoria, to control South Africa's booming export of mercenaries. Many have been arrested on their return home because they are do not have the licence now required by private soldiers.

Casualties among the mercenaries are not included in the regular body count put out by the occupation authorities, which may account for the persistent suspicion among Iraqis that the US is underestimating its figures of military dead and wounded. Some British experts claim that private policing is now the UK's biggest export to Iraq - a growth fueled by the surge in bomb attacks on coalition forces, aid agencies and UN buildings since the official end of the war in May last year.

Many companies operate from villas in middle-class areas of Baghdad with no name on the door. Some security men claim they can earn more than �80,000 a year; but short-term, high-risk mercenary work can bring much higher rewards. Security personnel working a seven-day contract in cities like Fallujah, can make $1,000 a day.

Although they wear no uniform, some security men carry personal identification on their flak jackets, along with their rifles and pistols. Others refuse to identify themselves even in hotels, drinking beer by the pool, their weapons at their feet. In several hotels, guests and staff have complained that security men have held drunken parties and one manager was forced to instruct mercenaries in his hotel that they must carry their guns in a bag when they leave the premises. His demand was ignored.

One British company director, David Claridge of the security firm Janusian, has estimated that British firms have earned up to �800m from their contracts in Iraq - barely a year after the invasion of Iraq. One British-run firm, Erinys, employs 14,000 Iraqis as watchmen and security guards to protect the country's oil fields and pipelines.

The use of private security firms has led to some resentment amongst the Department for International Development's aid workers - who fear it undermines the trust of Iraqi civilians. "DFID staff would prefer not to have this," said one source. "It's much easier for them to do their job without any visible security, but the security risks are great down there."

One South African-owned firm, Meteoric Tactical Solutions, has a �270,000 contract with DFID which, it is understood, involves providing bodyguards and drivers for its most senior official in Iraq and his small personal staff.

Another British-owned company, ArmorGroup has an �876,000 contract to supply 20 security guards for the Foreign Office. That figure will rise by 50 per cent in July. The firm also employs about 500 Gurkhas to guard executives with the US firms Bechtel and Kellogg Brown & Root.

Opposition MPs were shocked by the scale of the Government's use of private firms to guard British civil servants, and claimed it was further evidence that the British army was too small to cope. Menzies Campbell, the Liberal Democrat's foreign affairs spokesman, said: "This suggests that British forces are unable to provide adequate protection and raises the vexed question of overstretch - particularly in light of the remarks by the Chief of the Defense Staff, last week that Britain couldn't stage another operation on the scale of Iraq for another five years."

Andrew Robathan, a Tory MP on the international development select committee and former SAS officer, said: "The Army doesn't have the troops to provide static guards on this scale. Surely it would have been cheaper to have another battalion of troops providing guards."

The UK's largest private security firm in Iraq, Global Risk Strategies, is helping the coalition provisional authority and the Iraqi administration to draft new regulations. It is expecting to increase its presence from 1,000 to 1,200 staff this spring, and could reach 1,800 this year. However, aid charities are disturbed by the sums being spent on security, since DFID has diverted �278m from its mainstream aid budget for Iraqi reconstruction. Dominic Nutt, of Christian Aid, said: "This sticks in the craw. It's right that DFID protects its staff, but this is robbing Peter to pay Paul."

One of the horrors of guerilla war is that you can't tell the enemy from innocent bystanders. It appears that this "fog of war" is not limited to Iraqi guerillas but also to the occupational force and these "civilians" working for "security" contractors.

I'm afraid things are only going to get worse for everyone.

[SubGeniux]

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:

One of the horrors of guerilla war is that you can't tell the enemy from innocent bystanders. It appears that this "fog of war" is not limited to Iraqi guerillas but also to the occupational force and these "civilians" working for "security" contractors.

I'm afraid things are only going to get worse for everyone.

It's extremely difficult over there just now, even well respected Aid Agencies that worked in Iraq in the past, are now viewed with utter suspicion by the Iraqis. The general atmosphere amongst most Iraqis, is one of resentment for the US, suspicion about its intentions, and what the US has done to their nation. It won't calm down, not ever until the West stops the manipulation in these countries. We aren't dealing with a sole, isolated nation who's angst is left to themselves, but we have the entire Muslim world who currently have the lowest views of the US in history. The Iraqis know that their feelings are shared by Muslims throughout the world, but are powerless to do anything about it.

[Developer]

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
Recent article discussing the role of "security" contractors.

"My people know how to use weapons and they're all SAS," said the British leader of one security team in southern Baghdad. "But there are people running around with guns now who are just cowboys. We always conceal our weapons, [...]"
[...]
Many South Africans are in Iraq illegally - they are breaking new laws, passed by the government in Pretoria, to control South Africa's booming export of mercenaries.
[...]
Although they wear no uniform, some security men carry personal identification on their flak jackets, along with their rifles and pistols. Others refuse to identify themselves even in hotels
[..]

Somewhat off topic, but this question just came to my mind:

Not wearing uniforms, concealing their weapons, refusing to identify themselves, being considered illegal by their home country � aren't these "illegal combatants"?
So if someone snapped them, abducting them to a random other country and held them arrested indefinitely - well - could they?

[nam_pog]

Here is a graphic link to some horrible photos so be forwarned.

http://www.homestead.com/prosites-pr...res033104.html

How do these images make you feel?

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by nam_pog:
Here is a graphic link to some horrible photos so be forwarned.

http://www.homestead.com/prosites-pr...res033104.html

How do these images make you feel?

I feel sad for the people cheering. How brainwashed do you have to be to be smiling during that?

I am not so sure these people have consciences.

[nam_pog]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
I feel sad for the people cheering. How brainwashed do you have to be to be smiling during that?

I am not so sure these people have consciences.

I wish I could express into words how I feel about these pictures, but I will do my best. I feel like rounding up all the people of this town in a camp relocated from the city, and then bring down their city in flames, and then salt the earth before returning them to werer their home once were. I mean biblical proportion revenge and destruction. That is how I feel after viewing these photos.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
I feel sad for the people cheering. How brainwashed do you have to be to be smiling during that?

I am not so sure these people have consciences.

How are they brain-washed? Do you think it is ever possible for people to naturally feel such a level of hatred as is displayed here? Do you think it could ever happen here in the United States?

Read this article for a thought-provoking take on the human capacity for committing, and becoming accepted to, violence.

[nam_pog]

Originally posted by dcmacdaddy:
How are they brain-washed? Do you think it is ever possible for people to naturally feel such a level of hatred as is displayed here? Do you think it could ever happen here in the United States?

Read this article for a thought-provoking take on the human capacity for committing, and becoming accepted to, violence.

We have riots all the time, especially after some things called sporting events, but I don't ever recall anyone ever being burned to a cinder and then beaten with pipes and then hung or dragged through the streets. Correct me if I am wrong, but this level of savagery has been unknown to the USA ever. I do believe if I am going to do as many who rail against all religion do and tow the line, I would say they were brainwashed at a very young age to hate and despise their enemies to the point where they would find a place next to allah for doing just these things. It is honorable for them to die in the effort as well. Brainwashing is exactly what this is, as a human being to be enabled to do such horrific things would have to be removed from the cituation such that their enemy is no longer human and thus they would have little problem harming or torturing that which is not human. Clearly this is the case. When young people are raised with this in mind, it is quite easily understood how they can create such horrible events by their actions. I still want to burn their city to the ground, but that is only because I no longer view them as humane.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by dcmacdaddy:
How are they brain-washed? Do you think it is ever possible for people to naturally feel such a level of hatred as is displayed here?

I don't think when you can do that to someone, anyone and then SMILE about and NOT think there is something sinister behind it. It is almost as if they are possessed by hatred.

Do you think it could ever happen here in the United States?

It could happen anywhere.

Read this article for a thought-provoking take on the human capacity for committing, and becoming accepted to, violence.

Not going to register to read a page.

Post it?

[finboy]

I hope that there were lots of foreign press on hand to record the events with photos and video. That way it will be easier for the Iraqi police to round up the participants in a few months when all this calms down, and put them on trial.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by finboy:
I hope that there were lots of foreign press on hand to record the events with photos and video. That way it will be easier for the Iraqi police to round up the participants in a few months when all this calms down, and put them on trial.

Indeed. We saw plenty of faces.

Smart fellas huh.

[nam_pog]

Let them have a trial after they are shot, burned, and dragged through the street.

[f1000]

Originally posted by nam_pog:
We have riots all the time, especially after some things called sporting events, but I don't ever recall anyone ever being burned to a cinder and then beaten with pipes and then hung or dragged through the streets. Correct me if I am wrong, but this level of savagery has been unknown to the USA ever.

You are wrong,
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/317749.html

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally posted by Zimphire:

Not going to register to read a page.

Post it?

Full article posted here.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally posted by nam_pog:
We have riots all the time, especially after some things called sporting events, but I don't ever recall anyone ever being burned to a cinder and then beaten with pipes and then hung or dragged through the streets. Correct me if I am wrong, but this level of savagery has been unknown to the USA ever.

Wrong.

"The following day, violence boiled over when a group of inmates managed to leave their cells and force their way into the prison�s nerve center, where they beat several guards with pieces of pipe, lengths of chain, and baseball bats, fatally injuring one of them."

"Rockefeller was also spared the sight of the capture�s grim aftermath. Once the prison was reclaimed, guards, enraged by the events, ordered the inmates to crawl naked into the yard, beating them with clubs as they passed through."

Both excerpts are from an article here about the prison riot at Attica.

[f1000]

Originally posted by dcmacdaddy:
"The following day, violence boiled over when a group of inmates managed to leave their cells and force their way into the prison�s nerve center, where they beat several guards with pieces of pipe, lengths of chain, and baseball bats, fatally injuring one of them."

You're comparing apples and oranges: a prison riot is not the same thing as a public riot.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by f1000:
You're comparing apples and oranges:

But they are BOTH FRUIT!!!

[chalk_outline]

These guys were mercenaries. They got paid to kill and they risked being killed. They knew the game. It sucks they died. But, I feel more sympathy towards our real troops that have lost their lives.

[f1000]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
But they are BOTH FRUIT!!!

Aw nuts!

[angaq0k]

There is no question that what has just happened, in all its horror, is symptomatic of an extremely dysfunctional society.

But some reactions in this thread are symptomatic of a lack of ability to communicate anger that is in NO WAY different than what happened in Fallujah.

This country, Iraq, has barely known peace in its existence. That territory was always in the middle of some human, horrific conflict. Iraq's history is made from the blood of people whom had to chant and celebrate the glory of its dictators for their own survival. As early as the late '50s, people were eviscerated and suspended in the air in public to impose mob control in favor of the people in power. It did not start with Saddam Hussein; he was actually raised in that context. Why not the other children?

After a while, when there is no hope and no way to communicate anger and grief but through the means of extreme violence, people will express themselves with all the rage they can gather from what was taught to them. And Hussein was one of these teachers, but not the only one... Several generations of Iraqis were raised with the idea that there is only extreme violence to resolve conflicts, or to control.

That is because any attempt by the people of Iraq to respond to the past repression was met with more brutal repression. And violence is more likely to breed violence. And to react out of anger is to spark an escalation of more intense manifestations of anger. And if people do not know better ways...

All that anger was bottled up inside for several generations. It's coming out as triggers are presented, and since the actual repression is not efficient, the easier it is to let go of these raw emotions.

Now that the people of Iraq have regained some power for themselves, after the extremely efficient repression of Saddam Hussein, they now face a very inefficient U.S. Army that freed them, but also opened the opportunity to free a lot of anger that no one will contain without some form of repression for a while.

And I say inefficient because those soldiers are very tired, with a very low morale, the soldiers are dying over there, far from home, and the wounded are terribly crippled, and that communicates an image to all soldiers that their strenght is not as they were taught. Since the recruiting in the U.S. maybe have been difficult for a while, and may be more difficult in the future, and since the war was not so popular, the U.S. government had to find resources to maintain some control, hence hiring these security agents taken from other repressive regimes...

You cannot transfer people from a state of repression to a state of freedom and "democracy" which has a component of control reminding the previous oppressive regime. The soldiers present there are a symbol of repression, even if they were "liberators". Any civilians associated with men in uniform will become a possible target.

Should there be no repression? More? Should the U.N. step in? Should the people of Iraq be left on their own?

This is not finished and more will die, unfortunately, because there is no simple solution.

The solution is probably, imo, that the U.N. steps in.

[Troll]

From the BBC: "US television networks showed only edited pictures of the incident, and did not broadcast pictures of the bodies being dragged through the streets."

Is this true? The coverage is Europe is quite graphic showing two bodies being dragged behind cars through the streets and the other two dangling from the bridge. I can hardly bear to watch. I try to focus on the crowd who remind me of the mobs that used to be involved in "necklacings" in South Africa's townships. What amazes me is how many people are involved in this thing. But seriously, are the US networks not showing this stuff???

Bremer says he wants to catch the people that did it. Right, Paul! You're going to arrest the whole town? I understood that Falluja had been a no-go zone for some time now. They didn't respond to this incident, they haven't recovered any of the bodies and not one US soldiers has been spotted on the streets. I know that there are Saddam supporters in Falluja but lets not forget the incidents that have occurred in Falluja either. US soldiers killing protesters, a major shootout that was initially reported as a battle then as a massacre by US soldiers ... I fear all is lost in this area. I still think Iraq will descend into chaos unless blue helmets arrive on the scene pronto!

Meanwhile, talk about spin: "White House spokesman Scott McClellan blamed "terrorists" and supporters of ousted Iraq leader Saddam Hussein for the attacks in Falluja." Maybe he hasn't seen the coverage I'm seeing either.

[derbs]

Originally posted by nam_pog:
We have riots all the time, especially after some things called sporting events, but I don't ever recall anyone ever being burned to a cinder and then beaten with pipes and then hung or dragged through the streets.

You don't remember the 1992 LA riots...?

[derbs]

Originally posted by nam_pog:
I wish I could express into words how I feel about these pictures, but I will do my best. I feel like rounding up all the people of this town in a camp relocated from the city, and then bring down their city in flames, and then salt the earth before returning them to werer their home once were. I mean biblical proportion revenge and destruction. That is how I feel after viewing these photos.

Don't you think you lot have done enough damage already!? When you say 'biblical proportions' does that imply you believe all that fire and brimstone crap in the old testament?

Anyway, these guys who were killed were mercenaries. They profiteer on war, fear and death. I have very little sympathy for them.

Now when the UN hq in Iraq was bombed, I had sympathy then.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally posted by dcmacdaddy:
"The following day, violence boiled over when a group of inmates managed to leave their cells and force their way into the prison�s nerve center, where they beat several guards with pieces of pipe, lengths of chain, and baseball bats, fatally injuring one of them."

Originally posted by f1000:
You're comparing apples and oranges: a prison riot is not the same thing as a public riot.

My reply was in respose to nam_pog's assertion that he didn't think the level of violence on display in Fallujah ever occurred here in the States. And, my reply alluded to a question asked in my first post in this thread: Namely, is the level of hatred and violence on display in Fallujah inherent to the people of Fallujah or is it something inherent in all humans that simply boiled to the surface most recently in that city?

You are correct, a prison riot is in many ways very different from a public riot, but that wasn't my point. My point is, and was, that people here in this country can reach that frenzied level of hatred towards others and act on that hatred in horrifically violent and brutal ways. And that ability and willingness to act on hatred IS the same whether it comes to fruition in a prison riot in upstate New York or a public riot half a world away in Iraq.

[Judge_Fire]

Originally posted by nam_pog:
Correct me if I am wrong, but this level of savagery has been unknown to the USA ever.

"Practically all of the lynchers were native whites. The fact that a number of the victims were tortured, mutilated, dragged, or burned suggests the presence of sadistic tendencies among the lynchers. Of the tens of thousands of lynchers and onlookers, only 49 were indicted and only 4 have been sentenced."

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAlynching.htm


Put graphically :

http://www.nebraskastudies.org/0700/...701_013402.jpg


A quote from Carnival of Death :

"Lynching arose from the ashes of_ a ruthless and costly war that pitted_ brother against brother and father against son. The Civil War left a trail of blood and bitterness that twisted its way through successive generations and set the stage for a frenzy of so called mob justice that killed thousands of men, women and children, most of them black. And between the years 1880 and 1905, a period of twenty five years, not one person was ever convicted of any crime associated with these killings."

J

[quandarry]

these people are just doing their patriotic duty of killing and terrorizing the invaders of their country.

we would most likely do the same if our country was invaded by a foreign power that we all despised.

just think, they no longer have to go to extremes to kill their enemy...the enemy has come to their doorstep and the mighty bush said "bring it on".

and they brungest...

gee i had to post this in two threads.

anyway this kind of thing has happened to invaders all thru history...nothing new and should be expected.

[Nicko]

Originally posted by quandarry:
these people are just doing their patriotic duty of killing and terrorizing the invaders of their country.

we would most likely do the same if our country was invaded by a foreign power that we all despised.

just think, they no longer have to go to extremes to kill their enemy...the enemy has come to their doorstep and the mighty bush said "bring it on".

and they brungest...

gee i had to post this in two threads.

anyway this kind of thing has happened to invaders all thru history...nothing new and should be expected.

Indeed, like fish in a barrel.

[saab95]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
I feel sad for the people cheering. How brainwashed do you have to be to be smiling during that?

I am not so sure these people have consciences.

They are savages. Why didn't our soldiers just shoot them all?