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greenamp · Aug 13, 2004, 02:09 AM

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Ya well Apple should give you 1000 points for copying such a piss poor design.

Look at the TAM, people didn't want it.

Yeah well, I dunno how many different ways you can really make an AIO computer. I will sorely miss the current iMac, and will probably pick up a gently used 20" for my wife sometime.

TAM I think was way ahead of it's time. If apple is copying anyone, they are just copying themselves.

MindFad · Aug 13, 2004, 02:14 AM

Originally posted by nforcer:
<predictions>

Man, that's gonna be lame if they stick with the 5200FX still. Perhaps in the low-end with 64MB, though I think the low-end should have 128MB standard, but you know how Apple is. At least a 9600/9700 XT/PRO. Come on, Apple.

CharlesS · Aug 13, 2004, 02:17 AM

It will be sad to see the current, beautiful design go.

Although having optical audio ports built-in will be cool. Now, if only they'd put those on the PowerBooks...

greenamp · Aug 13, 2004, 02:17 AM

Originally posted by MindFad:
Man, that's gonna be lame if they stick with the 5200FX still. Perhaps in the low-end with 64MB, though I think the low-end should have 128MB standard, but you know how Apple is. At least a 9600/9700 XT/PRO. Come on, Apple.

And how about the edu version not having an optical drive? MAybe it's a gimic to get more college kids to buy iPods

fireside · Aug 13, 2004, 02:40 AM

Originally posted by greenamp:
And how about the edu version not having an optical drive? MAybe it's a gimic to get more college kids to buy iPods

yeah not having an optical drive is pretty retarded. on a windows education machine i could understand with viruses and crap, but on a mac it makes no sense.

sideus · Aug 13, 2004, 02:51 AM

What is with the GPU they are using? Geforce4MX?!? That is a souped up Geforce2MX which is like 4+ year old technology.

CharlesS · Aug 13, 2004, 02:58 AM

Originally posted by greenamp:
And how about the edu version not having an optical drive? MAybe it's a gimic to get more college kids to buy iPods

Originally posted by sideus:
What is with the GPU they are using? Geforce4MX?!? That is a souped up Geforce2MX which is like 4+ year old technology.

Dude, I think it's for educational institutions to buy, not for students. Think of a school library filled with cheap computers used as Internet terminals. In a setting like that, you don't really need optical drives, and you sure as hell don't need high-end gaming cards.

Spheric Harlot · Aug 13, 2004, 03:24 AM

Anybody else remember Steve Jobs going off on this whole spiel about how they didn't put the drives in back of the monitor because they're so much slower when mounted vertically? (It was one of the insanely great things about the current iMac design.)

sideus · Aug 13, 2004, 03:40 AM

Originally posted by CharlesS:
Dude, I think it's for educational institutions to buy, not for students. Think of a school library filled with cheap computers used as Internet terminals. In a setting like that, you don't really need optical drives, and you sure as hell don't need high-end gaming cards.

At $1200 a pop, I'd expect a lot more. The Geforce FX 5200 isn't a whole lot better also.

Powaqqatsi · Aug 13, 2004, 05:27 AM

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Look at the TAM, people didn't want it.

Yeah, but what was the price on a TAM ?

CharlesS · Aug 13, 2004, 05:30 AM

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
Anybody else remember Steve Jobs going off on this whole spiel about how they didn't put the drives in back of the monitor because they're so much slower when mounted vertically? (It was one of the insanely great things about the current iMac design.)

Yeah, and he was probably right, too. A normal tray-loaded optical drive obviously won't work vertically - it'll have to use a laptop optical drive. And those are never as fast as the normal tray-loaded versions...

What advantage does an iMac with the stuff mounted behind the monitor have over a laptop, anyway? As long as it will be using laptop components, why not just wait for the G5 PowerBook, whenever it comes out?

nforcer · Aug 13, 2004, 06:35 AM

Originally posted by CharlesS:
Dude, I think it's for educational institutions to buy, not for students. Think of a school library filled with cheap computers used as Internet terminals. In a setting like that, you don't really need optical drives, and you sure as hell don't need high-end gaming cards.

But where does that leave the eMac? Most educational institutions like the ones you describe probably won't even need a G5, so why not save a few hundred dollars and get some eMacs?

They don't need two lines of desktops geared toward the same market. They need a compelling midrange solution for people who need more than a bare bones G4 with a powerless video card (eMac), but don't care much about upgrading, or can't afford to spend $3-4K on a PowerMac and monitor. Something for people who aren't audio/graphics/video professionals, developers, or gamers, but might dabble in those areas from time to time. It's one thing to offer a small amount of RAM and a wimpy video card on the low end of a line, but when such things stretch across the whole line, it's not really giving us more to choose from than now.

The PowerMacs can be marketted on the distinction of being easily expandable and having more power with dual-G5s. The eMac can be marketted as being an affordable all-in-one solution that's good for less demanding tasks. I guess the new iMac will be like... if you want the same crippling components of an eMac, but with a G5, and a new pretty case for more money?

If they had 512 MB RAM and at least a Radeon 9600 (the minimum required for Core Image effects in Tiger, right?) in all models after the low end model, I think things would be looking much nicer.

This is all assuming the Think Secret report is true.

Eug Wanker · 03:06 PM

If they had 512 MB RAM and at least a Radeon 9600 (the minimum required for Core Image effects in Tiger, right?) in all models after the low end model, I think things would be looking much nicer.

The 5200 Ultra supports Core Video/Core Image.

EDIT: Core Image, not Core Audio dammit.

Chris O'Brien · Aug 13, 2004, 09:05 AM

Originally posted by greenamp:
<image snip>
These things are actually pretty cool in person.

We have 4 of those at work. I think they're pretty minging, personally...

AB^2=BCxAC · Aug 13, 2004, 09:33 AM

Uhmmmm.....

NO BUILT-IN BLUETOOTH OPTION?

djohnson · Aug 13, 2004, 09:39 AM

So where is this fabled new iMac?

storer · Aug 13, 2004, 09:46 AM

Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
Yeah, but what was the price on a TAM ?

Definetly not cheap. Around $10000 if i can remember correctly.

deomacius · Aug 13, 2004, 10:10 AM

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
Anybody else remember Steve Jobs going off on this whole spiel about how they didn't put the drives in back of the monitor because they're so much slower when mounted vertically? (It was one of the insanely great things about the current iMac design.)

I remember. Funny that it was good enough for the Cube but not the iMac. I wonder if they just conveniently didn't mention that?

Disgruntled Head of C-3PO · Aug 13, 2004, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by storer:
Definetly not cheap. Around $10000 if i can remember correctly.

Yup, and when nobody bought them they were selling them for $2000.

greenamp · Aug 13, 2004, 10:22 AM

I for one think the AIO imac based on the new displays is gonna be very nice.

Still wish they hadn't abandonded the pod design though. Oh well, heck, for all we know, this rumor may be a doozy.

theolein · Aug 13, 2004, 10:30 AM

Wake me up when they announce a G5 Powerbook.

Diggory Laycock · Aug 13, 2004, 10:48 AM

(most) People didn't want the TAM because of the price. It was never meant as a mass consumer device.

Meanwhile the plot thickens?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08...le_tablet_mac/

OldManMac · Aug 13, 2004, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by Diggory Laycock:
(most) People didn't want the TAM because of the price. It was never meant as a mass consumer device.

Meanwhile the plot thickens?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08...le_tablet_mac/

That, no doubt is a research project. Tablet PCs have flopped in sales. This is not the new iMac.

derbs · Aug 13, 2004, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by greenamp:

These things are actually pretty cool in person.

separated at birth

Eug Wanker · Aug 13, 2004, 11:59 AM

Originally posted by derbs:

separated at birth

Heh. I was thinking about the original Compaq portables. Ugly as hell.

pman68 · Aug 13, 2004, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by sideus:
At $1200 a pop, I'd expect a lot more. The Geforce FX 5200 isn't a whole lot better also.

EXACTLY! What consumer in their right mind would spend that much on a computer that only has a 64MB video card in 2004!

jeez.

OldManMac · Aug 13, 2004, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by pman68:
EXACTLY! What consumer in their right mind would spend that much on a computer that only has a 64MB video card in 2004!

jeez.

The ones that don't know any better, and don't care. There are lots of those out there. I sold Macs for the last ten years, the last two for Apple, and I can count on one hand the number of consumers ever asking me what kind of video card is in their iMac.

mitchell_pgh · Aug 13, 2004, 12:31 PM

Originally posted by KarlG:
The ones that don't know any better, and don't care. There are lots of those out there. I sold Macs for the last ten years, the last two for Apple, and I can count on one hand the number of consumers ever asking me what kind of video card is in their iMac.

Most consumers don't care about the video card or even know what one is. As long as it drives their display, they are happy. You need to remember that most people surf the web, send email and maybe look at pictures or watch a DVD.

Aug 13, 2004, 12:42 PM

ThinkSecret says no optical drive? Bull. You need to install an OS on the the thing - you need to troubleshoot.

It will have an optical drive - especially for the educ. market. A lot of references and educational software runs right off a CD or DVD.

Powaqqatsi · Aug 13, 2004, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by hayesk:
ThinkSecret says no optical drive? Bull. You need to install an OS on the the thing - you need to troubleshoot.

It will have an optical drive - especially for the educ. market. A lot of references and educational software runs right off a CD or DVD.

Network install.

OldManMac · Aug 13, 2004, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
Most consumers don't care about the video card or even know what one is. As long as it drives their display, they are happy. You need to remember that most people surf the web, send email and maybe look at pictures or watch a DVD.

That's what I said.

Aug 13, 2004, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
Network install.

Only in ideal situations. Suppose the network is down, or it only "half-boots" and stalls at network connectivity. Not only that, in the educ. market, computers are often thrown on a cart and moved around where they don't have net connectivity - not every school has every classroom wired or a wireless network. Seems easier just to throw in a $15 CD drive. Heck, even the entry level eMac has a combo drive. It just doesn't seem likely to me.

mitchell_pgh · Aug 13, 2004, 12:56 PM

NetBoot
The NetBoot service in Mac OS X Server enables multiple Mac systems to boot from a single server-based disk image, instead of from their internal hard drive. This allows you to create a standard configuration and use it on all of the desktop systems in a department or classroom � or host multiple images customized for different workgroups. You can even create server configurations and run all of your servers from one image. Updating the disk image on the NetBoot server updates all of these systems automatically the next time they restart.

turtle777 · Aug 13, 2004, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by hayesk:
ThinkSecret says no optical drive? Bull. You need to install an OS on the the thing - you need to troubleshoot.

It will have an optical drive - especially for the educ. market. A lot of references and educational software runs right off a CD or DVD.

Better believe it...

As said before: the mighty network install / boot will come to your rescue!

-t

OldManMac · Aug 13, 2004, 01:19 PM

If we're still on the subject of the new iMac, it will have an optical drive, period. Tell me that someone is going to walk in to an Apple Store or CompUSA, or wherever, buy their first Mac, point to the available software on the shelf, and then be told that they have to set it up on a network to load additional software? If it isn't their first Mac, they have software at home they may want to load.
We're talking about a consumer machine.

Who's smoking the funny stuff here?

Eug Wanker · Aug 13, 2004, 01:20 PM

Apple already sells eMacs without optical drives.

However, while the specs for the low end educational machines make sense, the price does not. $1300 seems to high, but to be fair, TS doesn't say these are firm prices. (BTW, check my sig for other comments on this.)

turtle777 · Aug 13, 2004, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by KarlG:
If we're still on the subject of the new iMac, it will have an optical drive, period. Tell me that someone is going to walk in to an Apple Store or CompUSA, or wherever, buy their first Mac, point to the available software on the shelf, and then be told that they have to set it up on a network to load additional software? If it isn't their first Mac, they have software at home they may want to load.
We're talking about a consumer machine.

Who's smoking the funny stuff here?

You are completely missing the point.

And btw, I'm sure that the driveless version will only be available online to educational customers...

-t

mitchell_pgh · Aug 13, 2004, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by KarlG:
Who's smoking the funny stuff here?

You must be... They aren't going to sell them at the stores... it's for EDUCATION. It will be available ONLY on the EDUCATIONAL section of their web site.

OldManMac · Aug 13, 2004, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
You must be... They aren't going to sell them at the stores... it's for EDUCATION. It will be available ONLY on the EDUCATIONAL section of their web site.

Okay, folks, stay with me here. First, read my post. I stated, "If we're still on the subject of the new iMac, it will have an optical drive, period." The thread title was "New iMac is coming." Still with me? Good. When the new iMac comes out, it will have an optical drive, for retail, which is what this thread started out talking about. Still with me? Good. So now, somebody tells me I must be smoking the funny stuff, because they're for education only. I clearly stated that I was talking about retail, which was what the thread started out about. I'm not the one smoking the funny stuff.

Also, please provide a link to an Apple Educational site, where the eMac is sold without an optical drive.

Thank you.

MindFad · Aug 13, 2004, 02:44 PM

I checked the education Apple store online for this drive-less eMac. I don't see it. I see a $749 eMac with a combo drive.

mitchell_pgh · Aug 13, 2004, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by KarlG:
Also, please provide a link to an Apple Educational site, where the eMac is sold without an optical drive.

Thank you.

mitchell_pgh · Aug 13, 2004, 02:46 PM

You must go in as an institution, not for yourself.

MindFad · Aug 13, 2004, 02:53 PM

Sheee-it, for $599, it better at least have a CD-ROM drive.

pman68 · Aug 13, 2004, 02:54 PM

A retail/consumer computer for 2K with only a 64MB video card is pretty weak. IMHO.

CharlesS · Aug 13, 2004, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by KarlG:
Okay, folks, stay with me here. First, read my post. I stated, "If we're still on the subject of the new iMac, it will have an optical drive, period." The thread title was "New iMac is coming." Still with me? Good. When the new iMac comes out, it will have an optical drive, for retail, which is what this thread started out talking about. Still with me? Good. So now, somebody tells me I must be smoking the funny stuff, because they're for education only. I clearly stated that I was talking about retail, which was what the thread started out about. I'm not the one smoking the funny stuff.

Also, please provide a link to an Apple Educational site, where the eMac is sold without an optical drive.

Thank you.

What part of "The model without an optical drive is for educational institutions only" don't you understand?

MindFad · Aug 13, 2004, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by pman68:
A retail/consumer computer for 2K with only a 64MB video card is pretty weak. IMHO.

I'd say it's pretty lame. 128MB 9600XT should at least be the standard today. Maybe the pro version even. The 64MB card wouldn't bother me so much if it weren't such a weak 5200FX. Lordy.

Eug Wanker · Aug 13, 2004, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by MindFad:
I'd say it's pretty lame. 128MB 9600XT should at least be the standard today. Maybe the pro version even. The 64MB card wouldn't bother me so much if it weren't such a weak 5200FX. Lordy.

Yeah, I was guessing a 5600 Ultra 64 MB, which competes against the 9600 Pro.

A 20" iMac with 1.8 GHz G5 and GeForce FX 5200 Ultra is kinda lame.

OldManMac · Aug 13, 2004, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by CharlesS:
What part of "The model without an optical drive is for educational institutions only" don't you understand?

What part of my post did you not understand? I was talking about retail, as was this thread when it began, and it was clearly indicated in my post, when somebody decides to twist things around and telling me I don't understand the educational models? Seems clear to me.

OldManMac · Aug 13, 2004, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
You must go in as an institution, not for yourself.

Thank you.

Eug Wanker · Aug 13, 2004, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by KarlG:
What part of my post did you not understand? I was talking about retail, as was this thread when it began, and it was clearly indicated in my post, when somebody decides to twist things around and telling me I don't understand the educational models? Seems clear to me.

Yeah, yeah, nice backtrack. It was clearly stated right from the outset that only the low end educational models are optical driveless. Then you go on to rant that an iMac "will have an optical drive, period".

If we're still on the subject of the new iMac, it will have an optical drive, period. Tell me that someone is going to walk in to an Apple Store or CompUSA, or wherever, buy their first Mac, point to the available software on the shelf, and then be told that they have to set it up on a network to load additional software? If it isn't their first Mac, they have software at home they may want to load.
We're talking about a consumer machine.

Who's smoking the funny stuff here?

Why even bring this up, since it had already been stated that optical driveless iMacs would be educational only?

And it seems clear that you didn't know Apple sold Macs already without optical drives:

Also, please provide a link to an Apple Educational site, where the eMac is sold without an optical drive.