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The President Called a liar during speech.
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stevesnj
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Sep 9, 2009, 09:11 PM
 
Those scum Republicans yelled that the President was a liar during his speech when he said Death Panels are not going to happen. You scum Republicans and Sarah Palin. She is part of the 'scum party' for even coming up with that term. Here's hoping a Moose tramples her ass!
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Doofy
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Sep 9, 2009, 09:16 PM
 
Wait. What? A politician is a liar? Surely not?
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
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turtle777
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Sep 9, 2009, 09:16 PM
 


Are you serious ?
You started a thread about people yelling at town halls ?

I think you should leave the PWL ASAP, lest your feelings get hurt.

-t
     
besson3c
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Sep 9, 2009, 09:17 PM
 
She didn't come up with the term, she just parroted it.
     
SpaceMonkey
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Sep 9, 2009, 09:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post


Are you serious ?
You started a thread about people yelling at town halls ?

I think you should leave the PWL ASAP, lest your feelings get hurt.

-t
Uh, I think he is talking about Rep. Joe Wilson (R-SC) heckling the president from the floor of Congress during tonight's speech, which, IMO, is pretty scummy behavior indeed. Maybe he's watched too much British Parliament on C-SPAN.

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stevesnj  (op)
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Sep 9, 2009, 09:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post


Are you serious ?
You started a thread about people yelling at town halls ?

I think you should leave the PWL ASAP, lest your feelings get hurt.

-t
Idiot.. get with it!
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hyteckit
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Sep 9, 2009, 09:37 PM
 
The Republican Party has become a party of nutjobs.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
turtle777
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Sep 9, 2009, 09:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by stevesnj View Post
Idiot.. get with it!
Well, let's see.

Given the thread at hand, who looks like the idiot here

-t
     
turtle777
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Sep 9, 2009, 09:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
The Republican Party has become a party of nutjobs.
Has become ? When did that happen ?

You normally make it sound like it's always been like that...

-t
     
besson3c
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Sep 9, 2009, 10:06 PM
 
Turtle: would you mind reading the transcripts of the president's speech and the rebuttal before sharing your knee jerk reactions to things in here? They are no surprise to us, we all know what you think. I'm assuming, of course, that this thread will eventually segue into the speech itself and not just the heckler.
     
turtle777
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Sep 9, 2009, 10:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Turtle: would you mind reading the transcripts of the president's speech and the rebuttal before sharing your knee jerk reactions to things in here? They are no surprise to us, we all know what you think. I'm assuming, of course, that this thread will eventually segue into the speech itself and not just the heckler.
WTF do you even bother to post the same stuff over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

Could you please create a sticky, so we'd be done with it ?

Kthxbai.

-t
     
besson3c
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Sep 9, 2009, 10:14 PM
 
Never mind Turtle, you do your thing. Hopefully somebody will eventually create a thread about the speech that takes more than 3 posts to get crapped in.
     
hyteckit
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Sep 9, 2009, 10:17 PM
 
The Republican was are acting so childish. Shows no respect for the President.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
turtle777
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Sep 9, 2009, 10:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Never mind Turtle, you do your thing. Hopefully somebody will eventually create a thread about the speech that takes more than 3 posts to get crapped in.
If you are thinking that the OP started this thread to have a serious discussion, you are a clown.

But then again, the current administration is a bunch of clowns. I guess you must be right

-t
     
dzp111
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Sep 9, 2009, 10:59 PM
 
From outside looking in?

"Death Panels" is the most ridiculous, paranoiac, stupidest, laughable, erroneous, pitiful, nonsensical, idiotic, superstitious, fear-mongrel thing I've heard in my whole life. (Not to mention political)

To think that any developed country's leader would even suggest the mere notion of such crap in this day of age? well, it's all of the above and it's beyond me.

'Death panel'.

Give us (North Americans) a break and stop discrediting someone's honest effort to help those in need.

Fools.

And you know who you are.
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Wiskedjak
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Sep 9, 2009, 11:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Well, let's see.

Given the thread at hand, who looks like the idiot here
The elected representative (presumably a grown-up) who heckled the President?
     
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Sep 9, 2009, 11:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
The Republican was are acting so childish. Shows no respect for the President.
Any member of Congress, of any party, would be acting childish to conduct themselves in such a manner. Hopefully this member of the House (Joe Wilson from South Carolina) will receive a harsh reprimand from both his party and his constituents. He did neither of those groups any service by acting in the way that he did.

for Representative Wilson.
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torsoboy
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Sep 10, 2009, 12:21 AM
 
I read that he called him a liar when Obama said that the new coverage wouldn't cover illegals. And although the term "Death Panels" is a bit of an overkill, there is no doubt that panels will be created to determine what/who should or shouldn't be covered for certain procedures.

I think if the president was lying, he should be called out on it. It is "childish" to just sit back and let someone blatantly lie about something that will affect so many people. I'm not saying that he was lying (I don't know if he was), but if Joe knew that Obama was lying, I have no problems with his comments. I do have a problem with all of the standing ovations though... like that wasn't coordinated and meant to dictate the feelings of those watching the speech on TV? Enough theatrics! Tell us exactly what will be on the bill, and leave it at that.

For the most part, I believe that Obama will say and do ANYTHING to get this bill passed. The *only* thing he seems to care about right now is getting this thing to pass. If it doesn't pass, he knows he is doomed as a president, so this is basically him being backed into the corner and fighting with his teeth, nails, feet, elbows, and anything else he can use.
     
Shaddim
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Sep 10, 2009, 12:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by stevesnj View Post
Those scum Republicans yelled that the President was a liar during his speech when he said Death Panels are not going to happen. You scum Republicans and Sarah Palin. She is part of the 'scum party' for even coming up with that term. Here's hoping a Moose tramples her ass!
Aww, where is your god now? Did they hurt his feelings?
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Shaddim
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Sep 10, 2009, 12:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
Uh, I think he is talking about Rep. Joe Wilson (R-SC) heckling the president from the floor of Congress during tonight's speech, which, IMO, is pretty scummy behavior indeed. Maybe he's watched too much British Parliament on C-SPAN.
That's the way congress should be, makes for better TV.
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Sep 10, 2009, 12:58 AM
 
I'll admit that Pelosi's WTF face during the outburst almost made up for it.

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dcmacdaddy
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Sep 10, 2009, 12:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by torsoboy View Post
I read that he called him a liar when Obama said that the new coverage wouldn't cover illegals.
Well, there is a really easy way to determine if President Obama was lying: Read his proposed plan and see if there is anything in the plan that allows for coverage of illegal aliens.

Have you read the proposed plan? Does it allow for coverage of illegal aliens? If it does, the President was lying. If it does not, then the President was not lying and Representative Wilson was lying.
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Sep 10, 2009, 01:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
I'll admit that Pelosi's WTF face during the outburst almost made up for it.
I think Pelosi's reaction is more OMG than WTF.

Joe Biden's reaction was WTF.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
besson3c
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Sep 10, 2009, 01:08 AM
 
torsoboy: when/if you go to church, would you heckle the preacher if you disagree with something he says? How about at a Keynote address or some other speech?

There is a reason why heckling is not appropriate in these sorts of mediums. It's inconsiderate to those around you, and with hundreds of people in attendance it simply doesn't make sense to give hecklers the floor. I don't have a problem with the heckling on a moral level or something, I just think it was not a terribly professional or productive thing to do at this sort of occasion.
     
hyteckit
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Sep 10, 2009, 01:11 AM
 
Republicans are clowns who want to turn every event into a circus.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
Shaddim
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Sep 10, 2009, 01:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
torsoboy: when/if you go to church, would you heckle the preacher if you disagree with something he says? How about at a Keynote address or some other speech?

There is a reason why heckling is not appropriate in these sorts of mediums. It's inconsiderate to those around you, and with hundreds of people in attendance it simply doesn't make sense to give hecklers the floor. I don't have a problem with the heckling on a moral level or something, I just think it was not a terribly professional or productive thing to do at this sort of occasion.
So, Obama is a minister now? And you say other people's religions are ****ed up.
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Sep 10, 2009, 01:20 AM
 
Good for Wilson.

God forbid someone else's voice is heard during an address from Our Dear Leader.

...At least he didn't throw his shoes at the man.
     
turtle777
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Sep 10, 2009, 01:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy View Post
Well, there is a really easy way to determine if President Obama was lying: Read his proposed plan and see if there is anything in the plan that allows for coverage of illegal aliens.

Have you read the proposed plan? Does it allow for coverage of illegal aliens? If it does, the President was lying. If it does not, then the President was not lying and Representative Wilson was lying.
Well, either Obama or his own Congressional Research Service (CRS) don't know what they're talking about.

The Congressional Research Service (CRS) says this about H.R. 3200, the Obamacare bill approved just before the recess by the House Energy and Commerce Committee chaired by Rep. Henry Waxman, D-CA:
"Under H.R. 3200, a 'Health Insurance Exchange' would begin operation in 2013 and would offer private plans alongside a public option…H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens—whether legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently—participating in the Exchange."
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/op...-55021087.html

See also here:

http://www.numbersusa.com/content/nu...xtend-health-c

It boils down to this:

H.R. 3200 says that illegal immigrants are not eligible, but there will be no eligibility checks; anyone (even illegal immigrants) can just apply for it and get it.

Awesome piece of legislation

-t
     
Snow-i
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Sep 10, 2009, 01:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy View Post
Any member of Congress, of any party, would be acting childish to conduct themselves in such a manner. Hopefully this member of the House (Joe Wilson from South Carolina) will receive a harsh reprimand from both his party and his constituents. He did neither of those groups any service by acting in the way that he did.

for Representative Wilson.
Wow! An intelligent post in this thread. Props

I agree with you. However, I don't believe its as outrageous as its made out to be. This is obviously a very important issue, which generations upon generations of our children depending on the decisions made today. I think that a slip of emotion is a better sign coming from congress (any side) is far better than the silent screwing of us as a people (like Rangel).
     
hyteckit
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Sep 10, 2009, 01:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post

It boils down to this:

H.R. 3200 says that illegal immigrants are not eligible, but there will be no eligibility checks; anyone (even illegal immigrants) can just apply for it and get it.

Awesome piece of legislation

-t
But grandma will be interviewed and sentence to death by death panels.

What about grandma who are illegal immigrants? Do they get a free pass?
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
CRASH HARDDRIVE
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Sep 10, 2009, 01:54 AM
 
Obama set himself up for the Death Panel charge, when he gave the "pain pill" answer to the question asked by Jane Strum.

Possibly one of the dumbest "answers" in political history, when you listen to the actual question (is there consideration for a certain spirit, a certain quality of life, or is it just a cut off at a certain age?) then listen to the idiotic "answer". (Maybe just forget the surgery, just take a painkiller!)

YouTube - Obama to Jane Sturm: Hey, take a pill


Admit it: dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb "answer". I use the term answer loosely because he didn't answer the actual question (something Obama has a habit of doing) and in the process of his speil, set himself up for the charge of government making decisions to end the life of seniors.

A politician with actual skill could have easily shown great compassion answering her question, said something that didn't sound so callus and ignoring what she actually asked, and regardless of the plan details, completely avoided the whole issue. Face it, this is one of the reasons there's the teleprompter charge- when he's speaking off the cuff, he sometimes really sticks his foot in it.
     
turtle777
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Sep 10, 2009, 03:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
But grandma will be interviewed and sentence to death by death panels.

What about grandma who are illegal immigrants? Do they get a free pass?
That's all you got, a nice derail ?

-t
     
hyteckit
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Sep 10, 2009, 03:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
That's all you got, a nice derail ?

-t
Your response was dumb. Know why? Because you contradicted yourself in one reply.

First you say:

H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens—whether legally or illegally present
Then right after you say:
H.R. 3200 says that illegal immigrants are not eligible, but there will be no eligibility checks; anyone (even illegal immigrants) can just apply for it and get it.
First you say H.R. 3200 has no restrictions on noncitzens—whether legally or illegally present. Then you say H.R. 3200 does have restrictions on illegal immigrants, but they are not enforced because there will be no eligibility checks.

Sh*t. Make up you mind. Does H.R. 3200 contain any restrictions on noncitzens, whether legally or illegally present?

By the way. Heard of something called the SSN - Social Security Number. All your medical files, eligibility, medical info, and medical history will be link to it.

Last I check, illegals weren't given SSN. They have to steal it.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
ebuddy
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Sep 10, 2009, 06:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
By the way. Heard of something called the SSN - Social Security Number. All your medical files, eligibility, medical info, and medical history will be link to it. Last I check, illegals weren't given SSN. They have to steal it.
Heard of something called undocumented aliens? Yeah, they're in H.R.3200 and also required under a provision of the bill as "substantial presence" to participate in the exchange. If they cannot, they will be given affordability credits and/or will be eligible for "emergency Medicaid". What is that? Per the Center for Immigration Studies; The bill does not require identity verification for those claiming U.S. birth. Of illegal immigrants with incomes under 400 percent of poverty, about half earn less than 133 percent of poverty, which is the new ceiling for Medicaid eligibility.

According to the Center for Immigration Studies, there are some 6.6 million uninsured illegal immigrants in the United States who could be covered by the new health care reform bill (HR 3200). An amendment was defeated in committee that would have required the use of the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) program, used by almost all other means-tested programs of this kind. At present, 71 other means-tested federal programs require use of the SAVE system to prevent illegal immigrants and other ineligible non-citizens from accessing them.

If the intent of H.R. 3200 was to exclude illegal residents, it could have done so by requiring the use of a verification system they use for virtually all other Federal programs.

Obama merely parroted what he's been saying all along and he's doing entirely too much talking. He laid the gauntlet down by calling the opposition liars and now the lens of scrutiny has found him wanting for truth. Was it proper to outburst during Obama's speech? No, but the fact remains that Obama is a liar. if I were a constituent of Rep. Wilson's in South Carolina, I'd give him a pass on this one as being part of a political process that needs more passion right now.
ebuddy
     
hyteckit
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Sep 10, 2009, 07:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
Heard of something called undocumented aliens? Yeah, they're in H.R.3200 and also required under a provision of the bill as "substantial presence" to participate in the exchange. If they cannot, they will be given affordability credits and/or will be eligible for "emergency Medicaid". What is that? Per the Center for Immigration Studies; The bill does not require identity verification for those claiming U.S. birth. Of illegal immigrants with incomes under 400 percent of poverty, about half earn less than 133 percent of poverty, which is the new ceiling for Medicaid eligibility.

According to the Center for Immigration Studies, there are some 6.6 million uninsured illegal immigrants in the United States who could be covered by the new health care reform bill (HR 3200). An amendment was defeated in committee that would have required the use of the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) program, used by almost all other means-tested programs of this kind. At present, 71 other means-tested federal programs require use of the SAVE system to prevent illegal immigrants and other ineligible non-citizens from accessing them.

If the intent of H.R. 3200 was to exclude illegal residents, it could have done so by requiring the use of a verification system they use for virtually all other Federal programs.

Obama merely parroted what he's been saying all along and he's doing entirely too much talking. He laid the gauntlet down by calling the opposition liars and now the lens of scrutiny has found him wanting for truth. Was it proper to outburst during Obama's speech? No, but the fact remains that Obama is a liar. if I were a constituent of Rep. Wilson's in South Carolina, I'd give him a pass on this one as being part of a political process that needs more passion right now.
undocumented aliens == illegal aliens

Now I ask you WTF do you care if I was US born or not, as long as I have legal US citizenship?

Why do you have to verify US birth? What you want to verify is US citizenship or if the person is a legal documented alien.

I'm not born in the US. However, I'm a legal US citizen.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
ebuddy
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Sep 10, 2009, 07:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
torsoboy: when/if you go to church, would you heckle the preacher if you disagree with something he says? How about at a Keynote address or some other speech?
If he told me something I knew to be a blatant lie while calling others liars from his bully pulpit? Yeah, I would. Why would I revere a post he himself is disrespecting?

There is a reason why heckling is not appropriate in these sorts of mediums. It's inconsiderate to those around you, and with hundreds of people in attendance it simply doesn't make sense to give hecklers the floor. I don't have a problem with the heckling on a moral level or something, I just think it was not a terribly professional or productive thing to do at this sort of occasion.
I'm inclined to agree here, but again... we're talking about a President who has laid down the gauntlet with regard to partisanship and he's really putting his tush on the line with this one. Generally a respectable holding of ground until it includes calling opposition liars. This is the kind of kneejerk stuff he used for the Gates/Crowley affair and it is killing him in the polls. His speech last night will be a net-loss for his health scare agenda.

By the way, is it little more than 30 million or wasn't it as of a July 22nd press conference; 47 million? Meh, what's 17 million anyway?
ebuddy
     
ebuddy
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Sep 10, 2009, 07:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
undocumented aliens == illegal aliens

Now I ask you WTF do you care if I was US born or not, as long as I have legal US citizenship?

Why do you have to verify US birth?

I'm not born in the US. However, I'm a legal US citizen.
Your citizenship is challenged when you are participating in a Federal program. There are safe-guards in place against illegal residents getting taxpayer-funded benefits. The safe-gaurd for HR 3200 was struck down.

Per the Center for Immigration Studies; Substantial presence is defined as having been in the United States for at least 31 days during the current year and at least 183 days during the current year and previous two years. No mention is made of legal status in the legislation for determining substantial presence.
ebuddy
     
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Sep 10, 2009, 07:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
Your citizenship is challenged when you are participating in a Federal program. There are safe-guards in place against illegal residents getting taxpayer-funded benefits. The safe-gaurd for HR 3200 was struck down.
Again, WTF do you need to know if I was US born or not?

They can verify my US citizenship. Doesn't f*cking matter if I was born in the US or not.

I'm not running for President.

Maybe you don't know what a SSN is?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_number
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
ebuddy
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Sep 10, 2009, 07:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
Again, WTF do you need to know if I was US born or not?

They can verify my US citizenship. Doesn't f*cking matter if I was born in the US or not.

I'm not running for President.

Maybe you don't know what a SSN is?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_number
Why the hell are you so focused on your SSN?
Identity Theft

How many times do I have to tell you that identification of ANY kind is not required in HR3200. It is not a mandate. The safe-guards in place against illegal, UNDOCUMENTED aliens have been struck down in HR3200.
ebuddy
     
hyteckit
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Sep 10, 2009, 07:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
Why the hell are you so focused on your SSN?
Identity Theft
What about ID Theft?
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
hyteckit
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Sep 10, 2009, 07:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
Why the hell are you so focused on your SSN?
Identity Theft

How many times do I have to tell you that identification of ANY kind is not required in HR3200. It is not a mandate. The safe-guards in place against illegal, UNDOCUMENTED aliens have been struck down in HR3200.
But they do verify income?
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
stupendousman
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Sep 10, 2009, 07:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by dzp111 View Post
From outside looking in?

"Death Panels" is the most ridiculous, paranoiac, stupidest, laughable, erroneous, pitiful, nonsensical, idiotic, superstitious, fear-mongrel thing I've heard in my whole life. (Not to mention political)

To think that any developed country's leader would even suggest the mere notion of such crap in this day of age? well, it's all of the above and it's beyond me.

'Death panel'.
Premature baby 'left to die' by doctors after mother gives birth just two days before 22-week care limit | Mail Online

People aren't stupid. You can point out that the bill in question doesn't say "death panel" or spell out that those in charge of deciding health care will have guidelines that will take end of life healthcare decisions away from doctors and patients, but it doesn't make it not a fact of life.

Just as when the President time after time recites figures on the uninsured which includes illegal immigrants, it's doesn't take a dummy to figure out that either he's lying about the number of uninsured, or he's lying about who they will insure in the end. Sometimes, the truth is in the fine print which doesn't even exist.

That being said, the guy from S.C. lacked class.

I know it's hard to hear Obama lie over and over about a healthcare plan he doesn't even have the guts to put his own name on, but the outburst in question was totally unnecessary.
     
turtle777
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Sep 10, 2009, 10:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
Your response was dumb. Know why? Because you contradicted yourself in one reply.

Sh*t. Make up you mind.
Are you ?

I f***ing QUOTED THE CRS.

Don't you get ? The CRS is an Obama organization. THEY SAID THAT.

Man, you should apply for a job in the White House, you are a genius just like them.



-t
     
dcmacdaddy
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Sep 10, 2009, 11:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Are you ?

I f***ing QUOTED THE CRS.

Don't you get ? The CRS is an Obama organization. THEY SAID THAT.



-t
You might want to verify your facts better before making claims about the Congressional Research Service.

It is not an "Obama organization". In fact, it is not a presidential/executive organization; It is an branch of a legislative organization, namely the Library of Congress. And it is fiercely independent. The CRS has never been partisan to any President of either political party (and is frequently considered by members of Congress to not be biased enough towards their concerns/agendas).

If you want to use statements made by the CRS to make a point you would do better to not suggest they are affiliated to the sitting president when nothing could be further from the truth.
One should never stop striving for clarity of thought and precision of expression.
I would prefer my humanity sullied with the tarnish of science rather than the gloss of religion.
     
turtle777
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Sep 10, 2009, 11:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy View Post
You might want to verify your facts better before making claims about the Congressional Research Service.

It is not an "Obama organization". In fact, it is not a presidential/executive organization; It is an branch of a legislative organization, namely the Library of Congress. And it is fiercely independent. The CRS has never been partisan to any President of either political party.

If you want to use statements made by the CRS to make a point you would do better to not suggest they are affiliated to the sitting president when nothing could be further from the truth.
Ok. Mr. Nitpick.

Still, it's an government organization, and they typically fall in line with the administration's opinion.

-t
     
dcmacdaddy
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Sep 10, 2009, 11:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Ok. Mr. Nitpick.

Still, it's an government organization, and they typically fall in line with the administration's opinion.

-t
No, it's not a nitpick. And no they don't "typically fall in line with [this or any] administration's opinion". That statement is so laughable I've got food all over my keyboard from reading, and laughing at, your post.

Like the CBO (Congressional Budget Office) the CRS maintains its independence by apolitically analysing policy or budgetary issues presented to it. And like the CBO the CRS is frequently the target of criticism from both major political parties for being biased. So, you can be fairly confident that, if both Democrats and Republicans equally consider the CRS to be biased, it is in fact rather impartial.

You are wrong on this assertion of the CRS being "an Obama organization". It's just completely wrong; Not a little wrong, or partially wrong but totally, completely, and unequivocally wrong.


<edited to add>
I am NOT asserting that your arguments in this thread are wrong. Nor am I stating that the statements made by the CRS do or do not support your arguments. I am merely pointing out that the CRS is, and could never be, considered an arm of this or any presidential administration.
( Last edited by dcmacdaddy; Sep 10, 2009 at 11:24 AM. )
One should never stop striving for clarity of thought and precision of expression.
I would prefer my humanity sullied with the tarnish of science rather than the gloss of religion.
     
torsoboy
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Sep 10, 2009, 11:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
There is a reason why heckling is not appropriate in these sorts of mediums. It's inconsiderate to those around you, and with hundreds of people in attendance it simply doesn't make sense to give hecklers the floor. I don't have a problem with the heckling on a moral level or something, I just think it was not a terribly professional or productive thing to do at this sort of occasion.
I think he should be called out on the lies he tells. I don't care what forum he is addressing. He is the freaking President, and should be called out on every stinking lie that he says. To applaud the things that he gets right and then ignore the misinformation that he publishes along with it, is ridiculous.
     
SpaceMonkey
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Sep 10, 2009, 12:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by torsoboy View Post
I think he should be called out on the lies he tells. I don't care what forum he is addressing. He is the freaking President, and should be called out on every stinking lie that he says. To applaud the things that he gets right and then ignore the misinformation that he publishes along with it, is ridiculous.
You know, it's possible to dispute what someone is saying without yelling at them while they are talking. I agree that politicians should be "called out" when they lie. That doesn't mean it's okay to act like a jerk. There is extensive protocol for floor debates in Congress for exactly that reason. This was a different situation, but the general atmosphere of respect and decorum should still apply. Wilson can yell all he wants outside.

Maybe next we'll see elected Republican officials start referring to Obama as "No-Bama or "Obummer"?
( Last edited by SpaceMonkey; Sep 10, 2009 at 12:15 PM. )

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
CRASH HARDDRIVE
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Sep 10, 2009, 12:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
[
I know it's hard to hear Obama lie over and over about a healthcare plan he doesn't even have the guts to put his own name on, but the outburst in question was totally unnecessary.
Agreed.
     
OAW
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Sep 10, 2009, 12:44 PM
 
:::::::::: SIGH :::::::::::::

CNN Truth Squad: Will health bill pay for illegal immigrants?

The bill, HR 3200, would set up a health insurance "exchange," in which consumers could compare policies and choose a plan. It would create a government-run health plan to compete with private insurers in that exchange, and extend subsidies for coverage to people who aren't already covered by employers or federal programs like Medicare and Medicaid. It specifically bars illegal immigrants from receiving those subsidies. Section 246, which is included in the part of the bill that sets up the exchange, FORBIDS payments "on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States."

But when Cardin said undocumented workers "will not be in this bill," he appears to have missed one point: It may require them to BUY their own coverage.
And to address the critics who complain about enforcement .....

Critics say there is no way to enforce the ban on subsidies for undocumented workers, since the Democratic majority in the House turned back a Republican effort to EXPLICITLY STIFFEN citizenship checks. But Medicare and Medicaid already require those enrolled to provide "a substantial number of documents" to show they're U.S. citizens or legal residents, said Henrie Treadwell, a professor of community and preventive medicine at Atlanta's Morehouse University medical school.

Treadwell calls the issue a "RED HERRING," since many of the estimated 10 million to 12 million illegal immigrants in the United States are getting treatment at emergency rooms already. Doctors are obligated to treat people who show up REGARDLESS OF CITIZENSHIP, and most of those costs are being absorbed by hospitals and state and local governments, Treadwell said.

"It is certainly not just something that disappears," she said. "We are paying now for care that is not preventive, and we are paying millions."
And to sum it all up ......

The verdict:

False. A new report finds the bill could require illegal immigrants to BUY coverage, but it clearly restricts subsidies to U.S. citizens and legal residents.
So NO SUBSIDIES for illegal immigrants, but they may be required to BUY coverage from the Exchange if they don't already have coverage. Much like illegal immigrants are required to BUY auto insurance in many states. So this is a problem how? Some here would throw out the baby with the bath water because some illegal immigrant MIGHT be able to game the system and get a subsidy if they get the false ID necessary to pull it off .... when the fact of the matter is that there's all kinds of government benefits that can be obtained if you have false ID. Already. Now. And the new Health Insurance Exchange doesn't change that one way or the other. It's a rather silly argument IMO.

OAW

PS: As for Rep. Wilson, he behaved like an a*shole. Plain and simple. Quite like some other South Carolina Republicans lately.
     
 
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