[Cubeoid]

Originally Posted by saddino

This thread is now about catholic priests.

[budster101]

Nothing funny about that, you sick fcuk.

[Kerrigan]

I find it funny how two of the people who are making fun of ebonics the most can't even use the word "queue" properly.

Budster, Deth, when you are lining something up, such as a videotape, you queue it, not cue or que (the latter is not even an English word).

Right, now then, I agree that the whole idea of teaching ebonics is risible. How embarrassing would that be, to fail Ebonics 1?

"Yo dawg, I flunk bonics, guess me is no good at nuffing."

[budster101]

If this were something imporatant like my WORK I would give two shi ts about spelling it right. But seeing as how it's just you and some other idiots on an internet board, I don't give a fcuk.

Now fcuk off.

[Kerrigan]

Yo dogg u bee usin dat f werd so much I be think you am one of us ebonics speakers

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by budster101

If this were something imporatant like my WORK I would give two shi ts about spelling it right. But seeing as how it's just you and some other idiots on an internet board, I don't give a fcuk.

Now fcuk off.

How is that any different from people using Ebonics in a casual environment? Something which you seem to deny exists because 'all people who speak Ebonics are morons'. Perhaps like you they're too lazy to not sound like morons when it doesn't, in their opinion, matter.

[budster101]

I'm sorry, I was using my version of Webonics for white folks. You didn't like it?

I feel the same way about Ebonics. Now go take the hook outta your mouth homie.

[CreepingDeth]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

I find it funny how two of the people who are making fun of ebonics the most can't even use the word "queue" properly.

Budster, Deth, when you are lining something up, such as a videotape, you queue it, not cue or que (the latter is not even an English word).

Hmm…what's that word I'm looking for…uh, is it projection. Uh, assumption? I don't know. What's that word where you assume the person is an idiot without an example?

[parallax]

Actually, Kerrigan, you're wrong. The word "cue" works perfectly well there (and in general, you should check the dictionary before you nitpick).

[CreepingDeth]

Originally Posted by parallax

Actually, Kerrigan, you're wrong. The word "cue" works perfectly well there (and in general, you should check the dictionary before you nitpick).

[parallax]

Regardless of what each one of us thinks about Ebonics, I think we can all agree that this is a horrible idea. Would this ever fly in a mostly white school? Of course not. So now we're teaching minorities proficiency in a different language that has no place in the job market?

I admit, I haven't done my research, but a strong intuition tells me the vast majority of textbooks and great literature have not been translated into Ebonics. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I'd like anyone that actually thinks this is a /good/ idea to explain why it is and explain how this is not going to exacerbate segregation.

[loki74]

That is pretty funny. At dictionary.com the 4th def of cue is [yadda yadda]; a queue. Where as neither brotha nor fitty turned up anything. Dawg brings me to a link to acronym finder, which returnds, DAWG: Data Analysis Workgroup.

interesting, DAWG!!

[Y3a]

I guess the subject is NOW:

"What IS ebonics"

instead of

"it is valid or smart to use it as a teaching tool to the inarticulate folks who generally speak it" ???

[Warung]

In case some of you folks might have missed it, there IS an internal logic to Ebonics.

And whether you think your dialect and manner of speech are "superior" will make absolutely no difference in the end.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by budster101

No. I don't know anyone that speaks ebonics, I surround myself with intelligent people, not morons... wait.

......

Not really.

First you say that you don't know anyone that speaks "ebonics". And then you turn around and dispute my contention that your "impression" of those who do is inaccurate. A tad bit contradictory n'est pas?

OAW

[OAW]

I would encourage those who are truly interested in the subject to peruse the following link as suggested a couple of times before:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebonics

Those who really want to learn a thing or two will get something out of it. OTOH, those who are in this forum only to show their smug disdain for a dialect other than their own either won't bother or will find that the material simply goes over their head.

I was going to provide an example of how the use of the word "be" as a verb (instead of "does", "is", "was", "will" etc.) in certain situations actually conveys more information in less words than "standard English". In fact, "ebonics" or African-American Vernacular English generally does this across the board ... but I won't do that since the link breaks it down quite nicely.

OAW

[Tenacious Dyl]

Asked a lot of people I know / sort of know / whatever their opinion (All of them I chose to ask about this, African American, some who use a lot of "ebonics" others who don't at all)

Here is generally what I was told:

1) Don't call it a language, or a dialect... it is a code.

2) Why must we focus on the "negative" aspects of African Americans, such as "ebonics"

3) Calling it slang, is making it negative. It is no one's "call" to make it a negative subject.

4) Don't teach "ebonics" teach true African History, as in, teach much farther back than just slavery slavery slavery.

[loki74]

Originally Posted by OAW

I was going to provide an example of how the use of the word "be" as a verb (instead of "does", "is", "was", "will" etc.) in certain situations actually conveys more information in less words than "standard English". In fact, "ebonics" or African-American Vernacular English generally does this across the board ... but I won't do that since the link breaks it down quite nicely.

Okay its late and I don't really have time to read the entire link, but I did read the technical part about exactly what changes, etc...

You know, in Spanish class, one of the most difficult aspects was conjugation. Misconjugation = bad grade. Maybe I should have told my Spanish teacher the "added meaning" I had in misconjugating my verbs.

You can say that I'm nobody to say that SE is better, but it still doesn't change the fact that AAVE will NEVER be as satifactory in the job market as SE. Neither will Hawaiian Pidgin, and neither will any other accent, dialect, blah blah what have you. Trying to expand AAVE, teach it, teach in it, or even promote it above any other accent, dialect, what have you, is wrong. If you ask me, SE is the "average" or the "middle ground" between all the various accents, dialects, etc. and thus it is the most acceptable, most widely used, and what should be taught and promoted in all schools. Simple as that.

That being said, what I did find interesting in the link was the origins of such words as "hip," "bogus," "cat," "dig," etc. AAVE is not an "evil" thing. It is definately part of the diversity of America. But I will repeat: when working in the professional world, SE is THE way to go. End of story. (although there are exceptions, particularly in the entertainment industry)

[budster101]

Originally Posted by Tenacious Dyl

Asked a lot of people I know / sort of know / whatever their opinion (All of them I chose to ask about this, African American, some who use a lot of "ebonics" others who don't at all)

Here is generally what I was told:

1) Don't call it a language, or a dialect... it is a code.

2) Why must we focus on the "negative" aspects of African Americans, such as "ebonics"

3) Calling it slang, is making it negative. It is no one's "call" to make it a negative subject.

4) Don't teach "ebonics" teach true African History, as in, teach much farther back than just slavery slavery slavery.

1.) It isn't a language, or a dialect, or even a code, it's a bastardization of english. Not a difficult (CODE).

2/3.) It is negative. A code? Tell me a positive code language...we focus on it, because it's the topic at hand. We are not judging African Americans, just the thought of legitimizing this slang, as a proper dialiect in schools. (F) in English.

4.) There was no African American History before slavery.

[skelotar]

Wow.. so this is what what people talk about in their spare time. Or shall I say, when the "blacks" aren't around...

Interesting.

[budster101]

What makes you think there are no blacks in these here forums there paleface?

Y'all let the "This thread is about catholic priests" get a pass without a peep...

[skelotar]

Because catholic priests don't use macs or frequent mac boards..

Paleface? I've never heard that phrase / epithet, so i looked it up.

Paleface is a usually insulting term for white people used by some Native Americans. It fits into the general pattern of one ethnic or racial group describing another one by a single trait - e.g., the term "redskin" used by some whites to refer to Native Americans.

Good try, but i'm not white. I know there are "blacks" on "these here" forums. Apparently some of the macnn'ers here don't, including yourself. I'd like to see you say something about Jewish people and not expect a peep.

Are you using ebonics in your sig?

[budster101]

They (priests) don't use Mac boards? I know a few so you are wrong there, and I am offended because I know some people who are priests and I am Catholic, so if it is ok with you, I'm offended, as it was meant to be mean spirited by the poster.

It is a descritpor like "redneck" or "hillbilly".
(Paleface)


---

"ebonics in sig?"

What do you think?

--

Ebonics translation:

What do ya th'o't? ya'll is mad stupid.

[Warung]

Originally Posted by budster101

"ebonics in sig?"

What do you think?

I think you messed up the "s" there, sweety.

[EdGein]

Originally Posted by budster101

They (priests) don't use Mac boards? I know a few so you are wrong there, and I am offended because I know some people who are priests and I am Catholic, so if it is ok with you, I'm offended, as it was meant to be mean spirited by the poster.

The religious being targeted is allowed. I have already been informed by two admins in here.

It's not the same as targeting race, or sexual preference I am told.

Unless of course, you are white and live in the south.

[budster101]

Right, forgots mah place there, thanks for remindin me of mah place.

[Warung]

Originally Posted by EdGein

Unless of course, you are white and live in the south.

...or French.

[EdGein]

Originally Posted by Warung

...or French.

Nope, I've gotten reprimanded for even making jokes about the French.

[EdGein]

Originally Posted by budster101

Right, forgots mah place there, thanks for remindin me of mah place.

Tis alright. I think NN is being added to the "religious intolerance" web site list.

[budster101]

"This thread is now about Catholic Priests"

This is ok with ya'll?
----------------

[budster101]

BTW: The title of the thread is "Ebonics" not Catholic Priests. OFF TOPIC and against TOS.

The term "Niggah" is ebonics and on topic. I was not directing it towards anyone nor was I attempting to insult, but rather have a legitimate discussion on education. If you cannot identify the difference then the problem lies with you.

Re: The "S" in my sig, has a bite taken out of it... not messed up.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by budster101

1.) It isn't a language, or a dialect, or even a code, it's a bastardization of english. Not a difficult (CODE).

Have you ever studied linguistics? Have you ever actually looked at the ways that languages changes over time, the way dialects and new languages form, or even tried to figure out what language is? Do you even know what a dialect is?

2/3.) It is negative. A code? Tell me a positive code language...we focus on it, because it's the topic at hand. We are not judging African Americans, just the thought of legitimizing this slang, as a proper dialiect in schools. (F) in English.

It's negative to you. It's negative if used in a professional or academic setting where clear communication and understanding is essential. It is not, in and of itself, bad or negative in any way.

4.) There was no African American History before slavery.

He didn't say 'African American History' he said 'African History'. There most certainly was African history before slavery.

[budster101]

Why should we teach AFRICAN HISTORY?

Do we teach European History? We teach American History, and that's hard enough, they don't know squat about it.

Tell me what was African History before slavery... please, and explain why we should teach it... when they cannot even grasp American History.

[EdGein]

Teaching African history is more College level classes.

I guess if one wanted to learn about that one could. No one is stopping them.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by budster101

Why should we teach AFRICAN HISTORY?

Do we teach European History? We teach American History, and that's hard enough, they don't know squat about it.

Tell me what was African History before slavery... please, and explain why we should teach it... when they cannot even grasp American History.

Um yes, we do teach European history... They call it World history, but it generally focuses on Europe and occasionally touches on China and Japan. Barely ever is there a mention of Africa in history classes until you get to Europe's designs on the continent.

There was lots of African history before (European) slavery. Ever heard of Egyptians? The Kushites? The Axumites? The Carthaginians? The Zulu? The Khoikhoins? The Bushmen? How about the origins of humanity? Nah, nothing important or worth studying ever happened in Africa...

[EdGein]

nonhuman we study that. Atleast I did. It went along with "World History"

Which I have no problems with.

[budster101]

Yep, we called it world history too, but we are speaking about African "Ebonic" speaking Americans, and I don't think they are capable of learning it.. too stupid and lazy. <sarcasm>

They (High School Students in general) cannot even grasp AMERICAN HISTORY, let alone WORLD HISTORY or even just a class in African History. No, it's not that important, not in High School. College, yes, if they are history majors or wish to go and READ A BOOK on African History on their own.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by EdGein

nonhuman we study that. Atleast I did. It went along with "World History"

Which I have no problems with.

Oh. Well my experience with World history was different. It wasn't until I studied Ancient History that I ever got more than a cursory glance at Africa.

Also, I don't think we should be having African History classes in all public high schools. American and World are sufficient so long as World is actually that. If there's enough demand African history classes could be electives or something, but so should be European or Asian or South American.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by budster101

They (High School Students in general) cannot even grasp AMERICAN HISTORY, let alone WORLD HISTORY or even just a class in African History.

Maybe it's just that they don't care. I sure didn't. American history is boring as hell. As is modern European history.

Offering classes in African history might engage them more. Just the fact that it's a subject they're interested in, a subject they can call their own instead of one others are pushing on them, might make them better students in that class and overall. Like I said above, I find American and European history to be excruciatingly dull. But Russian history is fascinating to me, largely because I know it's the history my ancestors dealt with.

[budster101]

Dubble Post.

[budster101]

But, they do make 13 percent of the entire US Population so why not have a class just for them in African American History.... (No way)

If this were Africa then fine, no problem, but we live in America, and they are Americans...

That would be like me, Italian/Polish, having a Polish / or Italian History Class... or for you Continent Centric people, Southern European, or Eastern European classes.

I do think the elective is a way to go, but they have to pass American History with a C or better first, or retake American History.

[von Wrangell]

From Monty Python's Ebonics language lesson...

(classical music plays)
And now, todays Ebonic Language lesson...

"Meeting Girls!"

1."My,you're a lovely young lady..."

"DAMN, bit**, youz a fine muther f-er"

2."Let's go for a ride, shall we?..."

hey baby, lets jump in my lo-rider, and lets rotate these tires!

3."You are beutiful.I would like to make love to you..."

Da--bi--, u'r stupa fly,let me pull up to your bumper and smack that monkey!

4."Greeting old friends..."

Hello, sir

Whad~up?... dawg!

5.May I borrow some money ?

hey, let me hold some me n's, i will hit you back on the first , my brother.

6.You dont have it? Thanks anyway...

F--- YOU!

7. Making new friends...

Hello, sir...

WhadUP!

8. I admire your fashionable running shoes...

Drop dem nikes off yo ass befo i blast u muther f-er!

I used to be a stuck-up white boy fake in the funk... bump that, I aint no bull---- to the front street no more, thanks to the wake-up crew's Ebonics Language Lesson

Available in a hood near you...

I posted in this legendary thread™

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by budster101

But, they do make 13 percent of the entire US Population so why not have a class just for them in African American History.... (No way)

If this were Africa then fine, no problem, but we live in America, and they are Americans...

That would be like me, Italian/Polish, having a Polish / or Italian History Class... or for you Continent Centric people, Southern European, or Eastern European classes.

I do think the elective is a way to go, but they have to pass American History with a C or better first, or retake American History.

I agree.

[el chupacabra]

Originally Posted by OAW

I would encourage those who are truly interested in the subject to peruse the following link as suggested a couple of times before:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebonics

Those who really want to learn a thing or two will get something out of it. OTOH, those who are in this forum only to show their smug disdain for a dialect other than their own either won't bother or will find that the material simply goes over their head.

I was going to provide an example of how the use of the word "be" as a verb (instead of "does", "is", "was", "will" etc.) in certain situations actually conveys more information in less words than "standard English". In fact, "ebonics" or African-American Vernacular English generally does this across the board ... but I won't do that since the link breaks it down quite nicely.

OAW

Yes several people have come here trying to point out how they know more about Ebonics by posting links that call it a "dialect" and such. They've been ignored mostly because this is beyond the argument of dialects. The original article that was posted is showing that people are trying to call it a foreign language, not a dialect. I think of it more as an accent/dialect of which sentence structure is slightly different and the spelling of words is phonetically correct according to 'each' person's interpretation of that accent. But then again it doesn't matter what I think because there are no real rules in Ebonics you see. 'Cuz it aint a language. Teaching it in schools as a correct foreign language is like considering a Brooklyn accent as a language. Comparing it to Australia divergence is silly. The 2 cultures have been on opposite sides of the world for centuries.

I really don't care how anybody talks but everyone should at least know somewhat correct speech even if they don't use it all the time. And it won't help them in the future in business situations if they can write Ebonics but not English.

Its ironic that we have people in other countries striving to get rid of dialects and unify into one language for their own wellbeing yet in the US we have groups of people that strive to create a new language, complicating communication even more than it already is. This only segregates people further.

When Americans, Japanese, or Mexicans try to learn each others language do they try to learn it the correct way or half ass way. I will respect someone in a job interview who hasn't mastered English if he is from another country before someone who was born in the US if they made little effort to learn the main dialect (if that’s what you want to call it).

FYI In Hong Kong they are trying to change the language from Cantonese to Mandarin, the main language. Now why would they do that?

[el chupacabra]

Originally Posted by nonhuman

Maybe it's just that they don't care. I sure didn't. American history is boring as hell. As is modern European history.

Offering classes in African history might engage them more. Just the fact that it's a subject they're interested in, a subject they can call their own instead of one others are pushing on them, might make them better students in that class and overall. Like I said above, I find American and European history to be excruciatingly dull. But Russian history is fascinating to me, largely because I know it's the history my ancestors dealt with.

If they find African history interesting they can go to the library or the internet and learn about it on their own like the rest of us.

School is not meant to be fun it's meant to teach us about America so that we know how it all came together and operates today.

I hated school and found it boring too. Not a good excuse... for anything.

[el chupacabra]

double

[EdGein]

A double post 45 minutes later?

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by el chupacabra

FYI In Hong Kong they are trying to change the language from Cantonese to Mandarin, the main language. Now why would they do that?

Because it's the law...

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by el chupacabra

If they find African history interesting they can go to the library or the internet and learn about it on their own like the rest of us.

School is not meant to be fun it's meant to teach us about America so that we know how it all came together and operates today.

I hated school and found it boring too. Not a good excuse... for anything.

No school is meant to teach us. But not just to teach us facts, it's meant to teach us how to engage the world and think critically. The only way to do that effectively is to make the students want to learn. If teaching African history will help do that for more students, then they should teach African history.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by el chupacabra

Yes several people have come here trying to point out how they know more about Ebonics by posting links that call it a "dialect" and such. They've been ignored mostly because this is beyond the argument of dialects. The original article that was posted is showing that people are trying to call it a foreign language, not a dialect.

Allow me to delve into this a bit more and summarize my position on this issue ...

1. "Ebonics" or African-American Vernacular English (AAVE) is not a "foreign language". It is a dialect of English.

2. The key letter in "AAVE" is the "V". It is a vernacular form of expression. As such, it is useful and appropriate in "casual" or "informal" settings. It is not appropriate for more formal settings such as in academia or in a professional workplace.

http://dictionary.reference.com/sear...*&q=vernacular

3. AAVE is a spoken dialect. It really has no written form. Those who do so do it at the risk of being perceived as insensitive or condescending. It all depends on the intention of the writer and how it is done.

4. AAVE does not need to be "taught" in schools. Those who speak it already know it. Having said that, there is some validity to teaching those students that primarily speak AAVE how to translate their thoughts into SE .... and when and where it is appropriate to use AAVE and SE. I am an African-American who can speak and write SE with the best of them. And I can speak AAVE with those who are comfortable with it as well. The thing is, I know when and where to go from one form of communication to the other. My operating principle is essentially ... "When in Rome ...". So when I'm around other African-Americans in a casual or informal setting ... it is AAVE for the most part. Otherwise, it is SE. And I've done it for so long that I basically switch from one mode to the other unconsciously. I've even experienced some of my African-American friends tease me (in a good-natured way) of how I switch into my "professional voice" when I get a call on my cell from work ... and go right back into AAVE with them as soon as I hang up the phone. And I honestly don't even realize it because ... to put it bluntly, I grew up in predominantly African-American neighborhoods but was educated from the 8th grade forward in predominantly ... no scratch that ... overwhelmingly white settings. And I've worked in predominately white professional settings since then. So I suppose being able to switch from one mode to the other is second-nature to me at this point. Having said all that, the reality is that a lot of African-Americans are raised, educated, and work in predominantly African-American settings. So it is somewhat understandable when individuals with such a background have more difficultly when it comes to going into SE mode. Consequently, I think it is appropriate that the school system address this issue in the manner that I described above.

OAW