[Tennberg]

Hi everyone,

I'm sure I'm going to get some flames on this post, but it's something I've wanted to say. First, let me start off with some history:

I have used a Mac (or Apple) since I was 8 years old. My first was an Apple IIe. Next came an LCII. Then a PowerBook 5300ce. I've been in the IT world for the past 3 years (started work right after college), and have worked with Macs at each of my jobs. It is only at my most recent position that Mac users have really started getting to me.

Our office (a satellite office from our main North American office) contains developers, R&D, web programmers, designers, VPs, etc. with a mixture of Dell laptops/desktops and Mac laptops. For our PCs, we have a standard WinXP image with a standard set of software. The users on these machines aren't able to install software without prior approval and have somewhat restricted access to their machines. Basically, we have our PC users under control.

However, it is our Mac users that tend to stray from the path with the reason being that "we use a Mac, not a PC". We are beginning to bring all the Mac users under one standard OS X image with a standard set of software. The users on the machines will not be able to install software without prior approval and have somewhat restricted access to their machines. This alone caused quite an upheavel. They wanted unlimited access to install as many Photoshop/Illustrator plug-ins as they could, to install as many fonts they found on freeware sites, to install "this neat shareware program I found last night" and so on and so forth. However, IT put its foot down and said "you're no different from PC users. Your Mac is a tool, just like a PC, that allows you to do your job. You will not be treated differently from a PC user."

Then, we've tried to impose laptop bags on them (similar to ones you get from Dell). Right now, they either throw their laptop in their backpack or other carrying case, or wrap it in some flimsy sleeve (have you seen these? bleh!), and go about their business. I've had *many* of these laptops come to me with broken optical drives (can't read media, can't burn, etc), twisted screens or dents in the screen, scratches or big chunks taken out of the body of the laptop, etc. (I wish Apple had next-dat repair like Dell. That would really make them look good...) I've tried to tell the Mac users that this would be solved if they put these laptops in a normal laptop bag, but their reply was that "we designers can't be burdened with laptop bags".

And, on a side note, these Mac users *love* to decorate their laptops with stickers or color in the Apple logo on the outside, etc. (I've only recently started, so much of this has occurred without me). How do you explain the artsy stickers to Apple when you try to get the laptop repaired? *eyeroll*

I love the Mac platform, and am quite the expert on the platform. However, I know my fair share of Windows as well. So I can approach this topic from two major platforms. I tend to side with my manager, whose view was that your computer is a tool that lets you get your job done. Yes, certain people have different tools that let them get their job done, but we're not going to let one group have free reign over their computers simply because they consider themselves to be creative or "different". As an IT worker, I am just trying to make my job easier by applying the same rule set to everyone.

As a final question, what *is* the best way to approach Mac users and say "you're really not that different"?

[Capt Shane]

cause i can buy music from iTUNES!!! haha where you at pc users... yeah thas what I thought...

[starman]

Uh.....................................

So you restrict what your PC users can do, but you turn around and say Mac users are different?

My PC at work has stickers on it, random desktop images, a hacked uxtheme.dll so that I can install my own themes, and I install anything I damn well feel like.

Why?

Well, I'm speaking for myself, but I'm not stupid. I don't install anything without researching it first. I have very, VERY few unknown third-party apps. I have a lot of popular ones like Winamp, Wallmaster Pro, Yahoo IM, AOL, ICQ, etc. I bought my own Firewire card for my iPod, my own RAM upgrade, my own sound card for my music, and my own CD burner.

That said, try not to choke your PC users so much.

Mike

[The Godfather]

Does the iTunes store sell any modesty?

[RGB]

It's a computing EXPERIENCE for many of us, in addition to being a tool. And we like making our computers even more enjoyable to use.

Stickers though, and abusive treatment of laptops, is just blasphemous though. Apple hardware should be kept in pristine condition whenever possible.

[gorickey]

Think different.

Ring a bell?

[beb]

Because they really are "that" different. They have decided that in their own way to stand aloof of mediocrity and make the difficult point of being able to make choices. Underneath that serpentine skin of the Apple logo runs an always innovative and Tucker-like system that has forever harkened to the northern neighbors as the grey goose to follow.

Blah, blah, blah...

---

I truly wish I could be that harsh. I know better. The best thing to do is to nod when the Mac-Maniac hands his or her broken Mac "whatever". Do not provoke the Mac-Maniac lest you get doused with their infanda religious zeal for their platform. Your not going to convert a Christian into a Muslim or vise versa.

I'd also hope that someday Apple has a better repairs policy. (I know, well duh)

Insofar as stickers -well the old iBook has always looked stupid or (in the key lime's case) blinding to me. However, I know of several PC-using folks who not only have stickers of Bambi and some other Disney characters on their HP Pavilions but have actually taken the thing apart to give it a spray-painted cotton candy pink finish. Trying to hold a straight face after that -I mean forget the stupid iBook.

They've chosen to be different. Believe it or not it's somehow a good thing. Just know this and nod at them. You know better. Chances are they know better. And if you'll forgive the expression -just play it cool as best you can.

[Mac Zealot]

Tennberg... perhaps you are overlooking the fact these people have macs for a reason.

They are designers.. as you said.. are the PC users designers?

If I were you I'd be scolding the PC users for not being as creative at wanting their custom fonts and all.. it's a BAD THING? when you scold people for their creativity.

You my friend, are an idiot.

I do agree about the laptop thing though, that's assinate

[MikeM33]

yeah so it has nothing to do with this thread but it's not like Tennberg will ever post here agin either.

MikeM

[suprz's ghost]

Originally posted by RGB:
It's a computing EXPERIENCE for many of us, in addition to being a tool. And we like making our computers even more enjoyable to use.

.

EXACTLY!!! if i wanted to be unimpressed and unispired i would use a peecee. designers are "creative" and "innovative" what's wrong with making their macs even more user friendly than they are?
hell, where i work (using a compaq evo....eeewwww ) i have to friggin get a signed letter from god and 2 of the apostles to get anything changed....DAMN WINDOWS MIS IDIOTS! (i swear they couldnt find their *******s with a flashlight and a roadmap!

[- - e r i k - -]

It's true.

You have a creative department, let them be creative.

The WinTel PCs may be tools for the rest of the workers, but designers should not be shoehorned into some company policy. Let them do what they want with their macs as long as they keep doing their job.

As for the laptop thing, I'm sure you can come to an agreement. Perhaps they can choose their own stylish and secure bags?

I know this from first hand experience as I work as a designer in Norway's largest insurance company. Company PCs are standard images, our macs are not. We have external support and even our own Xserve. Cater for your creatives and they will be more productive.

[MacGorilla]

We're different from PC users because, let's face it, WE RULE!

[designbc]

I use both to do graphic design. At work I use a PC (Company's choice, they are cheaper) with all the limitations and restrictions. (Well, not all, I have some stickers and action figures over it). And you know what? IT'S BORING!!! Doesn't motivate me!
We can't even install Quicktime!!!
You want boring impersonal computers? Then get boring impersonal designs. And learn to live with that.

You are trying to make your job easier by applying the same rule set to everyone? NOT EVERYONE IS THE SAME AND THE SAME RULES DON'T APPLY FOR EVERYONE!
In my company, morons are the ones that decide what equipment and softwares to buy and then we have to deal with their problems, failures, blue screens AND besides that, do our job.

On the other hand, at home my 1G Ti PB is as the day it came, perfect. But inside I have ALL the softwares I NEED to do my job, all the fonts I selected for a certain project.
I'm carefull with what I install and I have antivirus and firewall.

And you can tell the difference between what I create at the office and what I create at home.

Oh man, you really f*cked up my morning.

[palmberg]

Originally posted by beb:
Do not provoke the Mac-Maniac lest you get doused with their infanda religious zeal for their platform. Your not going to convert a Christian into a Muslim or vise versa.

What is "infanda?" Some sort of Barbarella porn...?

[Lerkfish]

My eyes tend to glaze over any thread starting post that begins "first, a little history"....and then ends 1,000 words later.

think shorter.

[philzilla]

Originally posted by MikeM33:


yeah so it has nothing to do with this thread but it's not like Tennberg will ever post here agin either.

MikeM

mike, have you lost some weight? and, hey... have you had some hair treatment?

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Tennberg:
Hi everyone,

I'm sure I'm going to get some flames on this post, but it's something I've wanted to say. First, let me start off with some history:

I have used a Mac (or Apple) since I was 8 years old. My first was an Apple IIe. Next came an LCII. Then a PowerBook 5300ce. I've been in the IT world for the past 3 years (started work right after college), and have worked with Macs at each of my jobs. It is only at my most recent position that Mac users have really started getting to me.

Our office (a satellite office from our main North American office) contains developers, R&D, web programmers, designers, VPs, etc. with a mixture of Dell laptops/desktops and Mac laptops. For our PCs, we have a standard WinXP image with a standard set of software. The users on these machines aren't able to install software without prior approval and have somewhat restricted access to their machines. Basically, we have our PC users under control.

However, it is our Mac users that tend to stray from the path with the reason being that "we use a Mac, not a PC". We are beginning to bring all the Mac users under one standard OS X image with a standard set of software. The users on the machines will not be able to install software without prior approval and have somewhat restricted access to their machines. This alone caused quite an upheavel. They wanted unlimited access to install as many Photoshop/Illustrator plug-ins as they could, to install as many fonts they found on freeware sites, to install "this neat shareware program I found last night" and so on and so forth. However, IT put its foot down and said "you're no different from PC users. Your Mac is a tool, just like a PC, that allows you to do your job. You will not be treated differently from a PC user."

Then, we've tried to impose laptop bags on them (similar to ones you get from Dell). Right now, they either throw their laptop in their backpack or other carrying case, or wrap it in some flimsy sleeve (have you seen these? bleh!), and go about their business. I've had *many* of these laptops come to me with broken optical drives (can't read media, can't burn, etc), twisted screens or dents in the screen, scratches or big chunks taken out of the body of the laptop, etc. (I wish Apple had next-dat repair like Dell. That would really make them look good...) I've tried to tell the Mac users that this would be solved if they put these laptops in a normal laptop bag, but their reply was that "we designers can't be burdened with laptop bags".

And, on a side note, these Mac users *love* to decorate their laptops with stickers or color in the Apple logo on the outside, etc. (I've only recently started, so much of this has occurred without me). How do you explain the artsy stickers to Apple when you try to get the laptop repaired? *eyeroll*

I love the Mac platform, and am quite the expert on the platform. However, I know my fair share of Windows as well. So I can approach this topic from two major platforms. I tend to side with my manager, whose view was that your computer is a tool that lets you get your job done. Yes, certain people have different tools that let them get their job done, but we're not going to let one group have free reign over their computers simply because they consider themselves to be creative or "different". As an IT worker, I am just trying to make my job easier by applying the same rule set to everyone.

As a final question, what *is* the best way to approach Mac users and say "you're really not that different"?

You restrict even what PLUGINS they can use? Give me a break...

Let them set their desktop, let them install a network traffic monitoring menu extra, let them put a sticker on the machine. Who cares what the repair tech thinks when a machine goes in with a power puff girl on it? I wouldn't think anything of it. Get over it.

Stop being so damn anal.

BTW: Any "designer" that says "Don't burden us with laptop bags" or whatever is a dick.

[wdlove]

Tennberg, something i have wondered! Do PC users have forums like this?

I think that Mac users are just more of a community, want to be supportive of each other!

[dampeoples]

That's right, you tell them mac users they are no better!

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by dampeoples:
That's right, you tell them mac users they are no better!

yes, and I'll hold the coats.

[Eug]

What I hate more than PC zealots are Mac zealots. Must be an inferiority complex thing. [hides]

[Mac Zealot]

lol.

Really tho. This guy needs help

I can see why he gets anal over shareware.. it can be a PITA... but plugins, filters, and fonts....

This guy's a jackass.

[funkboy]

I also have noticed this.

A lady I know who recently had to switch from Mac to Windows, then had her own work PC locked up with Foolproof, was just pissed off about it. She was used to working with a Mac, being able to not be restricted in a lot of ways - feeling locked down when you're not used to it is probably the reason.

A lot of PC users - and I'm talking from experience - are happy to not rearrange stuff. They want their computer to look exactly the same when they boot up as the last time it booted up. Sure, I suppose we all do, but this stems from the first time they ever turn on their computer. They don't want to change a thing, they keep all those icons for things like "Try MSN Free" and "AOL - 50 hours" and Quicken, even though they've never touched Quicken in their life. And these people usually are more newer to the computer world, or at least more uncomfortable with it.

If you're more used to using computers (something that designers are required to be - see if accounting can do Illustrator/Photoshop... not being snotty, it's just that they don't need to use that because they're not required to know the computer quite as well) , you want to have your own domain over them. I'd be driven nuts if I was limited to doing something with a computer at work. If I find a way of working that would let me be more productive, be it with a little shareware utility (something I rarely download) , font, or whatever, I need to use it. I don't want to, I need to, to make me a more effective employeee/designer/whatever.

I bet a lot of these designers existed in design firms where they had to do their own tech support, too, so they know how to fix a lot of their own problems, too. They're probably already somewhat responsible computer users. If not, though, they need a kick in the butt to tell them, "hey, you're dumb at computers, I'm trying to help you."

Honestly, I'm wondering - why keep your designers limited to very specific system setups? I suppose tech support would be somewhat easier, but if you are an expert in the field, then troubleshooting most any Mac problem isn't too difficult. And, of course, for Windows, it isn't, either - simply re-install Windows

(I don't mean to sound like a jackass in this post, either... if I come off as that, just disregard this post )

[Mac Zealot]

funkboy: The term IT Expert is an oxymoron in itself.

same for IT technician.. they're all the same.. make the users super-angry and make bigtime money.

basically it's the middle man between the boss and the employees. The IT guy does what the plumber does to the typical parents.. they say a bunch of crap the boss doesn't know about to belittle them, and take control.

[scottiB]

Originally posted by Tennberg:
As a final question, what *is* the best way to approach Mac users and say "you're really not that different"?

Why do you feel you must say that?

Sorry, answering a question with a question is bad form, but really, why?

[GirlSplyph]

My very first personal computer was a Mac, a performa 460. I had that computer until it died (a short four years later). Due to my own impatience I got a PC with Windoze 98 at the time. From the beginning I had trouble with this computer, and always felt that after it I would purchase Apple products from there on out. Which I did, two years later, when I bought the new iMac. My mother purchased my first Mac, simply because the quality is better.
For some reason, I have an automatic respect for those that are Mac users. I do see that Mac users tend to be on the intelligent and/or creative side, and they usually have good things to offer to their field.
I do think some Mac users feel above PC users because they know they've purchased the better product. Apple stickers are a way of saying that without words.
You can try putting apple stickers on the bags. If Mac users didn't think they're somehow different from PC users, there'd be no need for MacNN.

[Mac Zealot]

mac users tend to know more

[Worst. Episode. Ever.]

The way it works in our shop is that those who know what they are doing have free reign to set up their machines however they see fit. New hires and front office staff are more restricted in what they are allowed to do.

Besides, given physical access to the hardware, any seasoned Mac user is going to figure out how to do whatever he wants anyway.

Anyway, I agree with the others who said that you should probably lighten up a bit.

However, anyone who willfully physically abuses a Mac laptop should be publicly flogged.

[Tennberg]

"yeah so it has nothing to do with this thread but it's not like Tennberg will ever post here agin either."

Just goes to show you :-)

Well, I guess I should've known that I would have gotten this kind of response on this post. A lot of it stemmed from frustration I had with our Mac users at work: placing latops in backpacks or purses or whatever with no protection, placing stickes on laptops that just can't be removed when it has to go to another user, users deleting things left and right, or adding apps without any idea how it will affect the system, etc.

First of all, let me say that I have been a Mac user for over 10 years, owning all types of systems. I enjoy the platform, love the company, love the OS, etc. I'm not putting down the platform, I'm just sharing my views with my opinions on how are Mac users are.

Our PC users don't go installing random apps (mostly because they can't). They don't "decorate" their laptops, they place them in laptop bags that keep the computer safe, etc. When we lay out IT guidelines, they don't complain. However, our Mac users are up in arms. I'm just saying that I don't know what the fuss is all about. You're a computer user. You have a laptop that has an OS on it, that has apps on it that let you complete your work, etc. Sure, it has a different name on it, a different logo, the machine looks different, certain actions are done slighlty differently. But it's still a computer with an OS with apps on it. Just like Windows running on a Dell, just like Linux running on a Gateway, etc. Sure, one computer may do one thing better than the other, or one may have a simpler way of doing something than the other. But in the end, they all basically do the same thing.

I know this will not be resolved, and maybe I shouldn't be discussing this in a Mac forum where the tide is against me. But I just needed to get it out.

[dampeoples]

Originally posted by Tennberg:
<stuff>

so.....put these renegades in the unemployment line or get them PC's. next?

[n~s]

Originally posted by Tennberg:
Our PC users don't go installing random apps (mostly because they can't). They don't "decorate" their laptops, they place them in laptop bags that keep the computer safe, etc. When we lay out IT guidelines, they don't complain. However, our Mac users are up in arms. I'm just saying that I don't know what the fuss is all about. You're a computer user. You have a laptop that has an OS on it, that has apps on it that let you complete your work, etc. Sure, it has a different name on it, a different logo, the machine looks different, certain actions are done slighlty differently. But it's still a computer with an OS with apps on it. Just like Windows running on a Dell, just like Linux running on a Gateway, etc. Sure, one computer may do one thing better than the other, or one may have a simpler way of doing something than the other. But in the end, they all basically do the same thing.

I think your best arguement has nothing to do with the type of computer they're using.

These computers are company owned property. Tell them to buy and use their own equipment if they want to put stickers on the lid or damage a laptop because they can't be bothered to be responsible with it.

I'm sure your company has a policy for employees who damage company property. Find out what it is and start enforcing it.

Unauthorized software: start a new policy where the user can only install their own software if they agree that they will get no support for any software or OS related problems that happen after. If they do have a problem, offer to re-image their machine.

Relax about the plug-ins and fonts. Your creative users probably have a business need for these.

[daimoni]

.

[wolfen]

Computers are either an extension of the self or of the corporation providing them. I think Apple products bring out a sense of individuality in their users, and this is what you are witnessing.

Look at you..."Apple people are acting independently, rebelling against the corporate blah blah blah blah..." Not everyone has that love for authoritarian ideals.


wolfen

[Adam Betts]

Originally posted by Tennberg:
I know this will not be resolved, and maybe I shouldn't be discussing this in a Mac forum where the tide is against me. But I just needed to get it out.

You knew that we will go against you but you posted anyway?

Wow, what a ****er

[typoon]

Originally posted by Tennberg:
"yeah so it has nothing to do with this thread but it's not like Tennberg will ever post here agin either."

Just goes to show you :-)

Well, I guess I should've known that I would have gotten this kind of response on this post. A lot of it stemmed from frustration I had with our Mac users at work: placing latops in backpacks or purses or whatever with no protection, placing stickes on laptops that just can't be removed when it has to go to another user, users deleting things left and right, or adding apps without any idea how it will affect the system, etc.

First of all, let me say that I have been a Mac user for over 10 years, owning all types of systems. I enjoy the platform, love the company, love the OS, etc. I'm not putting down the platform, I'm just sharing my views with my opinions on how are Mac users are.

Our PC users don't go installing random apps (mostly because they can't). They don't "decorate" their laptops, they place them in laptop bags that keep the computer safe, etc. When we lay out IT guidelines, they don't complain. However, our Mac users are up in arms. I'm just saying that I don't know what the fuss is all about. You're a computer user. You have a laptop that has an OS on it, that has apps on it that let you complete your work, etc. Sure, it has a different name on it, a different logo, the machine looks different, certain actions are done slighlty differently. But it's still a computer with an OS with apps on it. Just like Windows running on a Dell, just like Linux running on a Gateway, etc. Sure, one computer may do one thing better than the other, or one may have a simpler way of doing something than the other. But in the end, they all basically do the same thing.

I know this will not be resolved, and maybe I shouldn't be discussing this in a Mac forum where the tide is against me. But I just needed to get it out.

I have to agree with the person who said that you should know the policy about installing 3rd party Sw on company owned machines. Also tell the people if they have problems they WILL NOT be given support if they do so. In a corporate environment I would say that everyone should have a standard set of tools they need but shouldn't be restricted from installing there "own" apps on it. They must work with the computer everyday so let them make it there own. This goes for the PC users at your company as well. If you don't want instant messagers installed make sure you enforce the poilcy. If they are putting stickers on company machines I would have a problem with it too Mac or PC. They should give you that type of attitude. Know the policy and enforce it.

You are right one Platform maybe better than another for one thing over another. To me I just find being too restrictive is not a good thing. If people are able to work with music let them install WinAMP or iTunes. Let them play music and listen at work. IMHO I thnk as long as it doesn't hinder production and they are not doing anything against company policy then why not let them do it.

[imaxxedout69]

Originally posted by Tennberg:

Then, we've tried to impose laptop bags on them (similar to ones you get from Dell). Right now, they either throw their laptop in their backpack or other carrying case, or wrap it in some flimsy sleeve (have you seen these? bleh!), and go about their business. I've had *many* of these laptops come to me with broken optical drives (can't read media, can't burn, etc), twisted screens or dents in the screen, scratches or big chunks taken out of the body of the laptop, etc. (I wish Apple had next-dat repair like Dell. That would really make them look good...) I've tried to tell the Mac users that this would be solved if they put these laptops in a normal laptop bag, but their reply was that "we designers can't be burdened with laptop bags".

Here's an idea: you break the laptop, you pay for repairs. Simple.

- Rob

[Ryan1524]

i think restrictions are probably the worst thing you can put on to a person. why not let it be their machine. i think it's better if it's not considered company property and that once it's issued (or maybe let them buy their own machines), it's completely theirs. that would mean that they'll have to take care of their machines, coz if they don't, too bad, that's their responsibility. most often, when someone's given the burden of taking care of their own stuff, with no support from their company, they tend to be more careful with it.

there are all sorts of restrictions at my school. i can't even change the stupid green background on the win machines to black (wtf??) well, we have to live with that, UNLESS we're willing to bring our own machine. some students bring their own laptops to class and it's much better for them. they have much more freedom and they are more productive. freedom inspires. when you restrict someone's movement, you're killing their creativity.

my .02$

[benb]

Originally posted by Ryan1524:
i think restrictions are probably the worst thing you can put on to a person. why not let it be their machine. i think it's better if it's not considered company property and that once it's issued (or maybe let them buy their own machines), it's completely theirs. that would mean that they'll have to take care of their machines, coz if they don't, too bad, that's their responsibility. most often, when someone's given the burden of taking care of their own stuff, with no support from their company, they tend to be more careful with it.

there are all sorts of restrictions at my school. i can't even change the stupid green background on the win machines to black (wtf??) well, we have to live with that, UNLESS we're willing to bring our own machine. some students bring their own laptops to class and it's much better for them. they have much more freedom and they are more productive. freedom inspires. when you restrict someone's movement, you're killing their creativity.

my .02$

You give these people too much credit. In fact, most are morons. Just because you can do things on a computer without breaking it, does not mean that all people can, or should. I cannot tell you how many times I have told the same group of individuals that thier num lock key is off when they tell me that thier keyboard is broken. Or the two guys that installed KaZaA and sucked a large portion of our bandwith.

And at school, why should you be able to change the desktop on a public computer? Do you know how many times a day the IT department would be changing the background back to green from naked ladies?

The restriction are there because people are dumb, and they have no idea of the bigger picture. If there were not restrictions on the machines at work, most people would have a non-functioning computer at the end of the week. Trust me, my company tried it.

All that being said, lighten up when they install fonts and plugins. It's highle unlikely they're using them for anything other than work.

[wolfen]

I'm a SysAdmin/Desktop Support guy. Nothing fancy, but certainly qualified to talk about standards.

It ticks me off when people pile tons of downloaded crapware onto their machine and then say "My machine's not working right and I need it fixed right away." It's a freaking nightmare when you've got all kinds of insecure files flowing on your network...little bombs waiting to go off. And people just don't take any responsibility at all unless you really press them on it.

This isn't a contradiction of my prior post -- it's just the facts. People want their computer to be THEIR computer, and when THEY break THEIR computer, it becomes MY problem. This is why I have a job. I can delude myself about how the world "should" be, but reality is mgmt makes the non-decision to have no policy, and I clean up the consequences.

In some way, everyone is a janitor cleaning up someone else's mess. Beyond that, ego distinguishes one from another.


wolfen

[benb]

Originally posted by wolfen:
Some stuff he wrote.


wolfen

What he said.

[The Godfather]

Mac people are wealthier in average. A wealthier person is better than a poorer person, don't you know?????

[jckalen]

One thing that the company may have considered - there are very few viruses written for the mac. There are dozens written for PC's daily. They may be restricting the PC users for their own protection. Also, Windows has a nasty tendency to crash & burn due to 3rd party apps whereas mac ('specially OSX) tend to be pretty stable. The only time mine ever freezes is when I'm using IE or Outlook express. Go figure. And then I just opt apple esc & all is well 99% of the time.

I've seen both sides of the IT fence. But IT was in a University, where we couldn't dictate what they did because each student, professor, and staff member had different needs - it was pointless to try to conform them to one setup. Not that I would anyway.

Now that I work for a large corporation, I see the other side of IT - the one that wants strict control over everything we do. I can't count how many times I'd be more productive if I got to choose what I did with my computer. The thing is IT depts hire morons (for the most part, not everyone). People so inept that they have zero troubleshooting skills beyond re-installing images. IT managers are afraid if they let the users get at the inards of the machine, they'll have a support nightmare - they may have a point.

But if they hired intelligent IT workers, they'd have no reason to lock everything down. After all, troubleshooting a computer problem usually takes far less time than reinstalling an image and data - if you know what you are doing.

I say, let the Mac users (and PC users, if they ask) have what they want - it'll make your life easier.

[funkboy]

Originally posted by Tennberg:
[B]Well, I guess I should've known that I would have gotten this kind of response on this post. A lot of it stemmed from frustration I had with our Mac users at work: placing latops in backpacks or purses or whatever with no protection, placing stickes on laptops that just can't be removed when it has to go to another user, users deleting things left and right, or adding apps without any idea how it will affect the system, etc.[b]

This doesn't sound like a matter of Mac people, but just a select number of people being stupid. How many PC users would do the same thing if they had free reign over their computer? And are the ones doing stupid things to their Mac system just stupid people in general? Don't let them make a bad name for Mac users in general

First of all, let me say that I have been a Mac user for over 10 years, owning all types of systems. I enjoy the platform, love the company, love the OS, etc. I'm not putting down the platform, I'm just sharing my views with my opinions on how are Mac users are.

Our PC users don't go installing random apps (mostly because they can't). They don't "decorate" their laptops, they place them in laptop bags that keep the computer safe, etc. When we lay out IT guidelines, they don't complain. However, our Mac users are up in arms. I'm just saying that I don't know what the fuss is all about. You're a computer user. You have a laptop that has an OS on it, that has apps on it that let you complete your work, etc. Sure, it has a different name on it, a different logo, the machine looks different, certain actions are done slighlty differently. But it's still a computer with an OS with apps on it. Just like Windows running on a Dell, just like Linux running on a Gateway, etc. Sure, one computer may do one thing better than the other, or one may have a simpler way of doing something than the other. But in the end, they all basically do the same thing.

Well, I think this is very much a part of, if I may coin the phrase, "The Mac Mystique." (with all credit due to Betty Friedan) It's an intangible quality about the Mac that makes its users rugged individualists. We refuse to be put down by the man! ...
It could be because the rest of the world uses Windows, we refuse to be like the "rest" of the world... and I'm not being silly with that sentence. I think there may very well be some sort of psychological process going on there. Someone should do their dissertation on it...

I know this will not be resolved, and maybe I shouldn't be discussing this in a Mac forum where the tide is against me. But I just needed to get it out.

We're not really against you - I'm not, anyway. I just agree with you, it is a very interesting thing... I blame it due to the fact that if you use a Mac, a sub-5% market share product, you need to have a bit of a rebellious nature in you.
No, you've brought up an excellent point, one that I think needs more investigation - thanks for this thread, I've found it very interesting!

[nvaughan3]

Originally posted by jckalen:
One thing that the company may have considered - there are very few viruses written for the mac. There are dozens written for PC's daily. They may be restricting the PC users for their own protection. Also, Windows has a nasty tendency to crash & burn due to 3rd party apps whereas mac ('specially OSX) tend to be pretty stable. The only time mine ever freezes is when I'm using IE or Outlook express. Go figure. And then I just opt apple esc & all is well 99% of the time.

Just as not every corporate environment has XP on their windows boxes neither does every firm using macs. Hell our entire newsroom has 8.5, and we JUST upgraded to quark 4 and photoshop 6. It sucks. Crashing has become a commmonly accepted problem.

[drmcnutt]

Originally posted by Mac Zealot:


I can see why he gets anal over shareware.. it can be a PITA... but plugins, filters, and fonts....

This guy's a jackass.

This was hilarious, I was thinking about how our IT department had to rebuild our macs because the recent Java update started causing problems with database apps we use. We can't use Ichat either, AOL is notorious for snafus. But hey they're just plugins ya know...it's not like we lost a day of productivity...oh wait we did. DARN But it's fun to come in on the weekend to make up the time! LOL indeed!

DRM

[:XI:]

Originally posted by MacGorilla:
We're different from PC users because, let's face it, WE RULE!

Congratulations!

[capuchin]

A Salutory Lesson on Why Restrictions Are Good.

Example - I've been trying for a few months to get the powers that be sold on the idea of installing a standard OS X image on design machines, and giving users regular, non-admin accounts. Everyone would have the same fonts, plugins, apps at the same version, and be able to pretty much work on whatever machine they wanted without screwing it up. Easy to administer, very simple.

No dice - the designers screamed and bitched and yelled to the CCO, and I was told to do custom installs on each box, giving full admin rights to each user.

Fair enough. I get paid, so I do my job.

Cut to a couple of days ago - one of our designers brings an odd cut of a font in from home and installs it on his machine. A couple of other designers get the font from him to work on the file. The file goes through prduction with the guy's personal font, is finished and sent to the printers, who fire it up and start printing off a couple hundred thousand brochures. Except the font is the wrong cut. And it looks like crap. And we have to eat about $9000 to do the work again, as well as losing time off the job, and making ourselves look ridiculous and unprofessional to the printer and our client. The designer was not disciplined, and the only result was some vague rumbling from on high about how this was a Bad Thing.

Wonder if we'll get the client's $400,000 annual report job next year? Whaddya say?

I'm all in favor of giving creative people room to stretch, but giving carte blanche is expensive and dangerous. I'll let you use whatever desktop background and icon set you want, have as much in your pictures, movies, and music folders as you feel you need, but it's a work machine. You want unrestricted freedom, go freelance. This is a business.

[Nonsuch]

Originally posted by capuchin:
Cut to a couple of days ago - one of our designers brings an odd cut of a font in from home and installs it on his machine. A couple of other designers get the font from him to work on the file. The file goes through prduction with the guy's personal font, is finished and sent to the printers, who fire it up and start printing off a couple hundred thousand brochures. Except the font is the wrong cut. And it looks like crap. And we have to eat about $9000 to do the work again, as well as losing time off the job, and making ourselves look ridiculous and unprofessional to the printer and our client.

Er ... has anyone in your shop heard of proofs?!

[jckalen]

Originally posted by nvaughan3:
Just as not every corporate environment has XP on their windows boxes neither does every firm using macs.

Originally posted by Tennberg:
We are beginning to bring all the Mac users under one standard OS X image with a standard set of software.

I just assumed they were already using OSX, but could be wrong about that.