[bbugge]

Hi

Tried a search, but no luck. So, I am wondering if anyone has had any experience with ram from OWC? I am looking at buying the new Mac Pro 8-core 2,66GHz, trying to save some cash in buying the ram form other dealers than Apple. I found this 32GB kit of ram from OWC wich I am considering buying. I am wondering if anyone has had any experience wih ram form OWC, and if anyone has tested this specific ram (not likely?).
-Any help would be appreciated. If my search has not been good enough, my appologies.

[Macrat]

I get all my Mac ram from them, very satisfied with their memory. I got a 6GB kit for my new 2.6 quad and haven't had any problems.

[bbugge]

Great. Thank you. Any clue where they produce their ram?

[cgc]

OWC is a great company...I buy RAM from them as well (NetList and OWC memory for Macpro)

[bbugge]

Sounds good. So, what are the real chances for the OWC ram not to work properly compared to the original ram Apple sells? You think I´m right in concluding that the OWC ram is as good as any other?

[Simon]

6x2GB ECC DDR3 RAM from Crucial for $250.

It's faster than necessary (1333 MHz vs. 1066 MHz), but Newegg doesn't have a whole lot of ECC PC3-8500 memory.

[mduell]

Buy from Crucial for hundreds of dollars less. OWC's prices on commodity hardware (memory, hard drives, etc) are a complete scam; they're used to the markup they can get on Mac-specific parts (video cards at 100% markup over the PC version, G4 upgrades for the price of dramatically faster Intel chips, etc).

[cgc]

Crucial, OWC, NewEgg...all good. Don't believe the hype of any of these companies or any of their rabid fans here. Just pick one and go with it...and make sure you don't buy Apple memory

[revMedia]

I have purchased two 8GB kits from OWC for the new MP, and both work great.

[bbugge]

Ok. Thank you all for the advice. I´ll go for the OWC ram.

Happy easter

[mduell]

[Simon]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Enjoying yourself?

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Enjoying yourself?

Apparently he's frustrated that the OP missed the "hundreds of dollars less" part of his post. I would be.

[Simon]

That's the thing with advice. Others are free to take it or leave it. It's the OP's money so why care if he wants to waste it.

[ghporter]

You buy 'em books, and send 'em to school, and they still eat the paste and daydream... But it IS frustrating when good advice goes unheeded.

[bbugge]

Apparently I DID miss the "save 100s of $", and I'll be sure to check crucial out when I return from holiday. Again, thank you all for your time

[cgc]

Check OWC and you'll see prices that are the same or less than the price of Cucial's memory...all very similar in price and reliability. For example, OWC has 8GB of memory for the new MacPro for $144.90.

I don't care where people buy memory, but I think it's funny how "passionate" people are about Crucial or other companies. Buy from a reputable company and make sure you compare prices...just like shopping for anything...

[ghporter]

Crucial MAKES their RAM, most others don't. They have a vested interest in keeping customers happy, and they have great guarantees. These are all positives for choosing Crucial. On the other hand, a well-known brand like Kingston also has lots of positives, and when it comes to choosing between two brand names like these, price should be one of the highest priorities.

OWC is a retailer. You can get RAM directly from both Crucial and Kingston (and Buffalo, and Mushkin and others). Unless you're talking about one of Newegg's low price deals on name brand products, going through a retailer like Newegg or OWC doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[cgc]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Crucial MAKES their RAM, most others don't. They have a vested interest in keeping customers happy, and they have great guarantees. These are all positives for choosing Crucial. On the other hand, a well-known brand like Kingston also has lots of positives, and when it comes to choosing between two brand names like these, price should be one of the highest priorities.

OWC is a retailer. You can get RAM directly from both Crucial and Kingston (and Buffalo, and Mushkin and others). Unless you're talking about one of Newegg's low price deals on name brand products, going through a retailer like Newegg or OWC doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Whether or not a company makes the product they sells has some bearing on QC of the product, but OWC, Kingston, and other companies have a vested interest in selling products that are quality as well. Where we both agree is on what factor is the deciding factor, and that's price (assuming similar reputations). I've read a LOT of threads, both here and elsewhere, that discuss these various factors. The conclusion is that all name-brand memory is similar enough and generally dissipate heat well enough, that the only factor to consider is price.

I think Crucial comes close on price but is a little higher. Is there reputation enough to sway people? Maybe, maybe not. I think any of the above-mentioned companies are great sources for Mac memory and find it funny that people are so passionate about Crucial...

[Tarkio]

Just curious...what are you running that will use the 32GB you are buying?

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by cgc 

Check OWC and you'll see prices that are the same or less than the price of Cucial's memory...all very similar in price and reliability. For example, OWC has 8GB of memory for the new MacPro for $144.90.

Those are 2 GB modules. I'd recommend using 4 GB modules instead. That way, you will have extra slots free to add more RAM if you need it later. If you fill up your RAM slots with 2 GB modules and then decide you want to add more RAM, you'll have to throw out some of the 2 GB modules, resulting in a waste of money.

Besides, the OP wants to get 32 GB. The only way to do that is with eight 4 GB modules. The link the OP provided to OWC was $1749.99, which comes out to $218.75 per module. The 4 GB module mduell posted was $169.99, so eight of those would come out to $1359.92, which is a whopping $390.07 less than OWC's offering.

And if you can find that same Crucial RAM via Newegg, it'll probably be even cheaper.

Originally Posted by cgc 

The conclusion is that all name-brand memory is similar enough and generally dissipate heat well enough, that the only factor to consider is price.

Yeah, I don't consider OWC to be name-brand RAM, though. As someone else pointed out, OWC is a retailer, not a memory company. Their RAM is essentially store-brand RAM. I'd much prefer RAM from a company like Crucial that has a reputation for the quality of their RAM, especially if it's cheaper.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

And if you can find that same Crucial RAM via Newegg, it'll probably be even cheaper.

The problem with Newegg is that they're always so incredibly slow in updating their stock.

Right now they don't have a single 4GB DDR3 DIMM, not even non-ECC.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by cgc 

The conclusion is that all name-brand memory is similar enough and generally dissipate heat well enough, that the only factor to consider is price.

I'd say I agree about 85% with this. The other 15% is how many layers you may have to go through to get a problem part replaced, and I think companies like Crucial and Kingston make it much smoother and simpler to straighten out such a problem. Not that I've ever had a problem with their products...

Originally Posted by cgc 

I think Crucial comes close on price but is a little higher. Is there reputation enough to sway people? Maybe, maybe not. I think any of the above-mentioned companies are great sources for Mac memory and find it funny that people are so passionate about Crucial...

The thing with "Mac memory" is that there's no such thing. It's just RAM with specific specs. If there is nothing special about a particular RAM part except its specs, why not go to the manufacturer (Crucial) or a very well known supplier (Kingston) and get that part? I think Crucial's reputation IS enough to sway people and that's as it should be.

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Yeah, I don't consider OWC to be name-brand RAM, though. As someone else pointed out, OWC is a retailer, not a memory company. Their RAM is essentially store-brand RAM. I'd much prefer RAM from a company like Crucial that has a reputation for the quality of their RAM, especially if it's cheaper.

I never heard of OWC until a couple of years ago, when I started getting serious about tinkering with Macs. On the other hand, I actually remember when Micron spun off Crucial and how much hurrah there was about how you could now get this RAM straight from the manufacturer. That sort of biases me, I'll admit, but other firms like Kingston have built a solid reputation without having to lean on what had been a niche market in Mac products, and that sways me too.

[cgc]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Yeah, I don't consider OWC to be name-brand RAM, though. As someone else pointed out, OWC is a retailer, not a memory company.

Good point. The local store (AAFES BX) here has some weird brand MacPro memory which I'd never buy but I did but OWC's memory without knowing what brand it was. I do read a lot before buying and never heard anything bad but it's a little hypocritical (on my part).

[Simon]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

The thing with "Mac memory" is that there's no such thing. It's just RAM with specific specs. If there is nothing special about a particular RAM part except its specs, why not go to the manufacturer (Crucial) or a very well known supplier (Kingston) and get that part?

Excellent point. And it can't be repeated enough. Most of these "Mac RAM" deals are nothing more than a scam to get people to pay more for the exact same thing.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by cgc 

Check OWC and you'll see prices that are the same or less than the price of Cucial's memory...all very similar in price and reliability. For example, OWC has 8GB of memory for the new MacPro for $144.90.

I don't care where people buy memory, but I think it's funny how "passionate" people are about Crucial or other companies. Buy from a reputable company and make sure you compare prices...just like shopping for anything...

Different module size, and won't allow the OP to put 32GB in a Mac Pro.

Originally Posted by Simon 

The problem with Newegg is that they're always so incredibly slow in updating their stock.

Right now they don't have a single 4GB DDR3 DIMM, not even non-ECC.

For the last half year or so Newegg has been pretty slow to pick up the new products. I wonder if it's some sort of cost reduction deal.

Originally Posted by ghporter 

The thing with "Mac memory" is that there's no such thing. It's just RAM with specific specs.

In some cases there is, like the FB-DIMMs with oversized heatsinks required by the Mac Pro; they won't even fit in most (all?) other FB-DIMM systems.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by mduell 

In some cases there is, like the FB-DIMMs with oversized heatsinks required by the Mac Pro; they won't even fit in most (all?) other FB-DIMM systems.

That's still a "specification", though an important one. Other systems can use these DIMMs, like a lot of gamer PCs. There's nothing Mac-specific about the parts, just that a certain Mac requires their particular combination of features.

For a very long time, component suppliers that served the Mac community have behaved like EVERY component that works in a Mac was somehow special-and unique to Macs. That's not the case, obviously. Sorry that I didn't get that particular detail across in my earlier post.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

That's still a "specification", though an important one. Other systems can use these DIMMs, like a lot of gamer PCs. There's nothing Mac-specific about the parts, just that a certain Mac requires their particular combination of features.

For a very long time, component suppliers that served the Mac community have behaved like EVERY component that works in a Mac was somehow special-and unique to Macs. That's not the case, obviously. Sorry that I didn't get that particular detail across in my earlier post.

Can you link to other "gamer PCs" that require FB-DIMMs with Mac Pro style heatinsks?

When a FB-DIMM Mac Pro requires a particular memory module specification, and the same specification isn't used in non-Macs, I think it's fair to call it "Mac memory".

[Simon]

Cut the nonsense. This is a totally silly discussion because it's about one special case that amounts to pretty much the only exception since we went Intel. 99% of Mac buyers don't buy FB-DIMM. They buy DDR2/3 SO-DIMM. And PC2-5300 or PC3-8500 is exactly the same for Macs and PCs. Anybody selling such RAM with a "Mac memory" label and a hefty markup is simply scamming people who don't know any better. End of story.

Buy according to what Apple specified from whoever you want and it will work. Buying RAM with a decent warranty and from an inexpensive place like Newegg is just common sense.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Can you link to other "gamer PCs" that require FB-DIMMs with Mac Pro style heatinsks?

Skulltrail. Admittedly not purely a gamer PC, but a lot of people USE it for extreme gaming.

Originally Posted by mduell 

When a FB-DIMM Mac Pro requires a particular memory module specification, and the same specification isn't used in non-Macs, I think it's fair to call it "Mac memory".

The Fully-Buffered DIMM is NOT Mac specific. Particular heat sinks used in the Mac Pro may or may not be uique to the MP; there are a LOT of PC motherboard designers out there that do all sorts of things to allow for large, huge, even humongous RAM heat sinks for overclocking applications.

Basically, I think that unless it's a part UNIQUE in every way to a Mac, then someone is using in in a PC application. The fact that the majority of applications for a particular DIMM are in Macs does not make it a "Mac part."

[mduell]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Skulltrail. Admittedly not purely a gamer PC, but a lot of people USE it for extreme gaming.

The Fully-Buffered DIMM is NOT Mac specific. Particular heat sinks used in the Mac Pro may or may not be uique to the MP; there are a LOT of PC motherboard designers out there that do all sorts of things to allow for large, huge, even humongous RAM heat sinks for overclocking applications.

Basically, I think that unless it's a part UNIQUE in every way to a Mac, then someone is using in in a PC application. The fact that the majority of applications for a particular DIMM are in Macs does not make it a "Mac part."

Of course FB-DIMMs are not Mac Pro specific; I have hundreds of them in my Mac-free datacenter. But you said the jumbo wide heatsinks required by the FB-DIMM Mac Pros were a mere specifiation and not Mac specific, so I'm asking for a non Mac system that requires FB-DIMMs with the jumbo wide heatsinks required by the Mac Pro.

Here's a picture of the Intel Skulltrail board:


There's no way FB-DIMMs with the jumbo wide heatsinks that the Mac Pro requires are going to fit on that board.

So again, please link to a non-Mac that requires, or even supports, FB-DIMMs with the jumbo wide heatsinks required by the Mac Pro.

[ghporter]

I had problems understanding your point until I did a lot of research. You're right that the enormous heatsinks called for in Mac Pros are not "typical" parts. But OWC doesn't seem to make that obvious to the MP-innocent that I am; their illustration just shows a DIMM with a couple of clips on it, and it took me a lot of searching to find a picture of just how THICK those heatsinks are. (The best pictures I've seen of this RAM are on MacNN, by the way.)

But heatsinks are still just a mechanical spec, and the RAM itself isn't specific to Macs. Adding the right kind of heatsink, while a small challenge to get right, isn't doing anything to the RAM as RAM. Getting the right part from the vendor IS important, and for Mac Pros that means getting RAM with heatsinks big enough to make fighter jets out of. Or at least getting ram that you can put the right heatsinks on. But this is a VERY special case; is there another Mac that requires RAM that isn't very standard?

[mduell]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

I had problems understanding your point until I did a lot of research. You're right that the enormous heatsinks called for in Mac Pros are not "typical" parts. But OWC doesn't seem to make that obvious to the MP-innocent that I am; their illustration just shows a DIMM with a couple of clips on it

That's a module for the new DDR3 Mac Pros, not the previous FB-DIMM Mac Pros.

Originally Posted by ghporter 

and it took me a lot of searching to find a picture of just how THICK those heatsinks are. (The best pictures I've seen of this RAM are on MacNN, by the way.)

But heatsinks are still just a mechanical spec, and the RAM itself isn't specific to Macs. Adding the right kind of heatsink, while a small challenge to get right, isn't doing anything to the RAM as RAM. Getting the right part from the vendor IS important, and for Mac Pros that means getting RAM with heatsinks big enough to make fighter jets out of. Or at least getting ram that you can put the right heatsinks on. But this is a VERY special case; is there another Mac that requires RAM that isn't very standard?

The module is Mac specific, which is the same as it was back in the day, even when they used the same high-level (PC100, etc) spec.

The 2006-2008 Mac Pros require "Mac memory", while all the other Intel Macs take widely used parts.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by mduell 

The module is Mac specific, which is the same as it was back in the day, even when they used the same high-level (PC100, etc) spec.

Can you explain HOW it's Mac-specific? Is it something to to with only Macs using a specific kind of timing or something?

[Simon]

How about somebody explain why this totally off-topic pissing contest is allowed in a thread that has exactly zero to do with FB DIMMs.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Simon 

How about somebody explain why this totally off-topic pissing contest is allowed in a thread that has exactly zero to do with FB DIMMs.

...Because I wasn't paying attention? Oops. My bad. Sorry.

mduell, if you'd like to continue this discussion-which is really only about my personal opinion about what is and isn't a "Mac-specific part," start a new thread. I think we've about killed the subject anyway...

Back to FB-DIMMs, and the ones you need for a Mac Pro!

[Simon]

The new Mac Pro doesn't need FB-DMMs at all.

Regular DDR3 PC3-8500 will work. ECC is preferable, but non-ECC memory will work too.

[bbugge]

Ok. Back from holiday. Thank you all for the replys, even if they might have been a little off target. To start with I am a little confused about what spesific type of RAM I need to buy for the new MP 2,66GHz. I thought it had to be the 1066MHz DDR3 ECC SDRAM?
I want the full 32GB kit installed right away, so it has to be the 4Gb modules. I´ll be running a computer forensics program wich eats memory for breakfast (EnCase) either trough Bootcamp or parallels/VMW.

As already stated in my first post, I found the whole 32GB kit at OWC for $1750

At Crucial Simon found this 4GB module x 8 = $1360

So, are these two RAm modules equal in performance, an have the same specs? Am I ok to run either of them in the new Mac Pro? If so, Simon, I can understand why you got a little frustrated :-)

[Simon]

Yes, both of those will work fine. The Crucial kit is much cheaper and certainly just as good a product as the OWC.

You guessed correctly, you need DDR3 RAM and all of this blabbering about FB-DIMM was totally off-topic and superfluous.

Again, you need DDR3 PC3-8500 DIMMs (1066 MHz, 240 pins). ECC is favorable, but the MP will also work with non-ECC as long as you don't mix ECC and non-ECC DIMMs.

And just for the record, if you're concerned with raw memory bandwidth you'd rather populate 6 than 8 slots.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Simon 

And just for the record, if you're concerned with raw memory bandwidth you'd rather populate 6 than 8 slots.

(ON topic) Why would filling only 6 slots (for 24GB of RAM) be superior to filling all 8 for 32GB of RAM? I know there is a good reason (you wouldn't have posted the advice if there wasn't), but I want to know what that reason is.

[Simon]

It's the way the Nehalem architecture handles memory. Nehalem's integrated mem controller has three channels for 3x2 DDR3 DIMMs. Insert eight DIMMs and the bandwidth is dropped to accomodate for the extra DIMMs. Here's a nice example:


(memory bandwidth drops to 2/3 for eight vs. six DIMMs)

The same goes for the quad-core models with four vs. three DIMMs.

But again, this is only if you're concerned with bandwidth. If what you do relies only on having lots of RAM then you should populate.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Yes, both of those will work fine. The Crucial kit is much cheaper and certainly just as good a product as the OWC.

I'd say the Crucial is a better product than the OWC. Crucial RAM comes directly from a major brand name (Crucial is a division of Micron, a brand which Apple often uses for its built-in RAM). OWC is store-brand RAM. I see no reason at all to pay more for the OWC RAM when Crucial is top quality, and cheaper.

[mduell]

And, as has been pointed out many times in the MB(P) threads, most apps/tasks are insensitive to memory bandwidth.

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

I'd say the Crucial is a better product than the OWC. Crucial RAM comes directly from a major brand name (Crucial is a division of Micron, a brand which Apple often uses for its built-in RAM). OWC is store-brand RAM. I see no reason at all to pay more for the OWC RAM when Crucial is top quality, and cheaper.

This sums it up perfectly in two lines (on a 24" wide screen monitor).

[Simon]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

I'd say the Crucial is a better product than the OWC. Crucial RAM comes directly from a major brand name (Crucial is a division of Micron, a brand which Apple often uses for its built-in RAM). OWC is store-brand RAM. I see no reason at all to pay more for the OWC RAM when Crucial is top quality, and cheaper.

I agree with that. Personally, I would certainly go with Crucial here.

[bbugge]

Hi again guys

Well, after listening to your advice, I contacted Crucial. They said the ram Simon suggested is not the one to use with the new 8-core MP Nehalem. Instead I need this (part CT51272BA1067) wich is more expensive. The reason they state is that I need unbuffered ECC, not registered ECC. Is this correct?

If so, it´s quite a difference (Simons suggestion=$1355 and Crucials=$4400)... And, if this really is the case, OWCs ram for $1750 seems like a great deal.

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by Simon 

I agree with that. Personally, I would certainly go with Crucial here.

Went there twice, will go there again.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by bbugge 

Well, after listening to your advice, I contacted Crucial. They said the ram Simon suggested is not the one to use with the new 8-core MP Nehalem. Instead I need this (part CT51272BA1067) wich is more expensive. The reason they state is that I need unbuffered ECC, not registered ECC. Is this correct?

If so, it´s quite a difference (Simons suggestion=$1355 and Crucials=$4400)... And, if this really is the case, OWCs ram for $1750 seems like a great deal.

I would be quite surprised if the Mac Pros didn't work with registered (buffered) memory. Unbuffered memory is usually cheaper, but both should work (don't mix them).