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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > Logic board repair program expanded agaiin!

Logic board repair program expanded agaiin!
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pat++
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Jun 20, 2004, 04:20 PM
 
I just noticed that the iBook logic board repair program has been expanded again. My original 500mhz DUAL USB iBook is now covered !

Great news ! I guess people who paid for the repair can ask for a refund...
Mine has not gone to repair yet, but will probably go soon.

http://www.apple.com/support/ibook/faq/
     
Detrius
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Jun 20, 2004, 09:38 PM
 
This is great news. I just called early last week to get them to cover my Late 2001 iBook. They said no. So, I ordered a replacement logic board to do the repair... it hasn't even showed up yet. Looks like that's one less repair I'm going to have to do myself!

(Hey, maybe I'm the one that made the difference. )
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discotronic
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Jun 20, 2004, 10:38 PM
 
It was only a matter of time. I just wish Apple had done it sooner. Great news for the people who have been waiting.
     
finboy
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Jun 20, 2004, 10:59 PM
 
Originally posted by discotronic:
It was only a matter of time. I just wish Apple had done it sooner. Great news for the people who have been waiting.
Yeah, given the obvious design flaw, it was just a matter of time.
     
Eug Wanker
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Jun 21, 2004, 11:00 AM
 
My iBook 600 with 8 MB Rage is covered now. It's about friggin' time.
     
andreas_g4
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Jun 21, 2004, 03:39 PM
 
I'd be quite interested how this affects current sales. It's a bad sign for willing switchers that Apple's most-selling product has a major design flaw. But it's even more disappointing that Apple didn't include the earlier modles in the first place for a better reception at the potential customership.

Well, at least the fix it.
     
milhaus
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Jun 21, 2004, 03:40 PM
 
I am pissed off beyond words. I held on to the iBook through two repair program announcements, but after the second, figured that mine just wouldn't be covered. So, I sold it for a song, and now this? This is a real slap in the face. Hey Apple, since you know every machine had this problem, why didn't you cover them from the beginning?
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Detrius
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Jun 21, 2004, 10:26 PM
 
Originally posted by milhaus:
I am pissed off beyond words. I held on to the iBook through two repair program announcements, but after the second, figured that mine just wouldn't be covered. So, I sold it for a song, and now this? This is a real slap in the face. Hey Apple, since you know every machine had this problem, why didn't you cover them from the beginning?
They don't know that every machine had this problem. Every bit of this is based on statistics. My suspicion is that people with the older laptops didn't speak up (or didn't get logic board replacement from Apple... I know I was selling them off of other vendors). If you didn't tell Apple that your logic board was bad, or if the replacement part was not ordered from Apple, then they would have no method of ever knowing that your laptop had a problem. Therefore, it's a statistic that they needed but never received. This makes the problem looks smaller than it really is.

So, when people start calling up saying... "Hey, my laptop has this problem, but it's outside your serial number range" they add those to the statistics until there is a statistical relevance. Then, they will say that they will fix them.

For example: Suppose you still use floppy disks. Like all floppy disks, your floppy goes bad. Unlike normal floppy disks, yours goes bad when you try to erase from it. So, you buy new floppies. These floppies have the same problem. So you switch brands. At this point, the manufacturer of the bad floppies doesn't know that your floppies were bad. What they know is that they sold two packs. You never complained. No one else ever complained. As far as they are aware, their floppies are perfect.

Just because Apple made the laptops doesn't mean they "knew" they all had problems. Just because Apple extended the serial number range doesn't mean that they *did* all have problems. In fact, they may have extended the serial number range because of upset customers that weren't covered--despite the fact that there wasn't a problem. If extending the range satisfies a few hundred customers (vs. the numbers that were actually sold), then that would be better for them than having those few hundred customers upset... despite the fact that there was no flaw for those few hundred customers--they just happened to be unlucky.


Keep in mind that you don't know everything. Why would you expect that any one else knows everything? Even all of humanity combined doesn't know *everything*. If you had called Apple and expressed your outrage, they would have likely fixed your laptop for you anyway. They don't want the bad word-of-mouth.
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Eug Wanker
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Jun 21, 2004, 10:53 PM
 
They don't know that every machine had this problem. Every bit of this is based on statistics. My suspicion is that people with the older laptops didn't speak up (or didn't get logic board replacement from Apple... I know I was selling them off of other vendors). If you didn't tell Apple that your logic board was bad, or if the replacement part was not ordered from Apple, then they would have no method of ever knowing that your laptop had a problem. Therefore, it's a statistic that they needed but never received. This makes the problem looks smaller than it really is.
Just about everyone and their dog was complaining about the dual USB iBooks' logic board problem. It was all over various forums, including the Apple support forums.
     
brianb
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Jun 21, 2004, 11:30 PM
 
Hate to disapoint people but forums are not where Apple gets thier statistical analyisis from. They need calls to thier help desk and Authorized repair centers where issues can be properly diagnosed. That is where they get their numbers not a bunch of forums on the net.The only time that Apple could take someones word on what was wrong with a system on this forum is if that person was an Apple Certified Laptop Technician, and then they would have properly logged it in the system.
     
Eug Wanker
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Jun 21, 2004, 11:46 PM
 
Originally posted by brianb:
Hate to disapoint people but forums are not where Apple gets thier statistical analyisis from. They need calls to thier help desk and Authorized repair centers where issues can be properly diagnosed. That is where they get their numbers not a bunch of forums on the net.The only time that Apple could take someones word on what was wrong with a system on this forum is if that person was an Apple Certified Laptop Technician, and then they would have properly logged it in the system.
Sorry, but that's just wishful thinking. People aren't stupid enough to JUST post on the forum and not call Apple, and esp. for just one subgroup of iBook users.

Early iceBook owners have been complaining about this problem for just about forever, and it's taken this long for Apple to finally respond. I'm happy Apple is doing something about it now, but they should have done this right from the beginning.
     
rytc
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Jun 22, 2004, 09:11 PM
 
Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Sorry, but that's just wishful thinking. People aren't stupid enough to JUST post on the forum and not call Apple, and esp. for just one subgroup of iBook users.

Early iceBook owners have been complaining about this problem for just about forever, and it's taken this long for Apple to finally respond. I'm happy Apple is doing something about it now, but they should have done this right from the beginning.
Yes people have been compaining and yes there was lots of info on the net but as it was pointed out unless the repairs were being done, Apple probably assumed it was just a vocal minority. My sister's laptop crapped out (dual USB 500 Mhz) after asking for the cost of replacing the screen and logic board at an macshop, it turned out to be a lot more expensive than she was able to afford, so we decided not to fix it. This would not have been logged into any stats as a defective model, as far as Apple is concerned it's still happily running. Not that I'm trying to scapegoat Apple, I'm still of the opinion that the original iBooks were rushed to market without proper quality control, after the success of the more expensive Clamshell iBooks.
     
Eug Wanker
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Jun 22, 2004, 09:35 PM
 
Originally posted by rytc:
Yes people have been compaining and yes there was lots of info on the net but as it was pointed out unless the repairs were being done, Apple probably assumed it was just a vocal minority. My sister's laptop crapped out (dual USB 500 Mhz) after asking for the cost of replacing the screen and logic board at an macshop, it turned out to be a lot more expensive than she was able to afford, so we decided not to fix it. This would not have been logged into any stats as a defective model, as far as Apple is concerned it's still happily running. Not that I'm trying to scapegoat Apple, I'm still of the opinion that the original iBooks were rushed to market without proper quality control, after the success of the more expensive Clamshell iBooks.
If you had called Apple (I did), this would have been logged obviously.
     
brianb
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Jun 23, 2004, 12:35 AM
 
And that right there proves my point. He didn't call. He went to a Mac Repair shop. Were they an Apple Authorized Repair Shop. Maybe maybe not but if they never sent the iBook in then thjere was no log. You called apple good for you. You did what you thought you had to. When Apple announced the first set of Serial Numbers in the recal there were alot more peole that started to call apple at that point. Why? Because maybe just maybe someone would say hey that is the same problem lets fix that. Well guess what now they have the Stats to justify a recall.

Remember this to there is justification in all that they do. They can't just give away free stuff all day long they would go down like the Titanic. They need to justify the problem is a large enough problem. It doesn't help when a few vocals start to cry Bloody murder and start all these class action law suits because then you have Apple lawyers involved and there goes another chunck of money that Apple could use for say helping off set the price of a new motherboard for your laptop.

Don't get me wrong I am glad they did this I am glad all of you can get your problem fixed. I know my iBook 700's motherboard died at a year and a half old. And it would have been covered under the original recal but you know that is also the exact reason I bought the apple care with it. To cover an problems that may arise.
     
Eug Wanker
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Jun 23, 2004, 04:15 AM
 
Originally posted by brianb:
And that right there proves my point. He didn't call. He went to a Mac Repair shop. Were they an Apple Authorized Repair Shop. Maybe maybe not but if they never sent the iBook in then thjere was no log. You called apple good for you. You did what you thought you had to. When Apple announced the first set of Serial Numbers in the recal there were alot more peole that started to call apple at that point. Why? Because maybe just maybe someone would say hey that is the same problem lets fix that. Well guess what now they have the Stats to justify a recall.
Actually, around here, all the Apple shops are authorized repair shops.

Anyways, all this sounds like a lot of Apple apologism here. You can damn well be sure a ton of people called after the first iteration of the iBook logic board repair program.
     
fhoubi
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Jun 23, 2004, 06:41 PM
 
Originally posted by milhaus:
I am pissed off beyond words. I held on to the iBook through two repair program announcements, but after the second, figured that mine just wouldn't be covered. So, I sold it for a song, and now this?
In some way, I'm pissed too. I bought Applecare for my june 2002 iBook instead of an iPod, just because so many logic boards were collapsing. Guess what, I'm now on my 3rd logic board, and my defect keyboard (cap "D") is not covered by Applecare.
I'm-a trying to wonder, wonder, wonder why you, wonder, wonder why you act so.
     
rytc
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Jun 24, 2004, 06:36 PM
 
Does everyone remember the scene in fightclub where he is describing his job? He investigates car crashes, looks to see how many cars are likely to be affected, what the probability will be for the the fault to cause a crash and a fatality, and which will cost more - a total recall or just ignoring the problem and settling with anyone who does have the accident.

This isn't as extreme as that as we're not dealing with people's lives, however I have to say I think there's probably a lot of truth in that description, in that a lot of companies will toss up what option will cost them less.

In this case Apple decided it was cheaper to ignore the problem rather than get bad publicity by recalling them.

And no I didn't ring Apple, the shop was just a reseller that sold Macs and did repairs. Outside of the US, very few places are actually run by Apple, they're just allowed to sell the products.

Cheers
     
Detrius
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Jun 27, 2004, 03:34 PM
 
Also, being an Apple Certified Tech myself, that works at an Apple Authorized Service Center, I can say that we don't order all of our parts from Apple. There are cheaper options out there that give better warranties. The bad logic boards we saw did not get replaced through Apple.

So, even taking your laptop to an Apple Authorized Service Center does not add to the statistics. The only way to add to the statistics is to either call Apple or to have *Apple* do the repair (which can be significantly more expensive).
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ccsccs7
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Jun 27, 2004, 04:50 PM
 
I was just thinking that it might have been very expensive (and could have taken a very big hit on earnings) if they included all the affected iBooks at once. By going in "waves," they could lessen the financial blow and spread it out so it doesn't look so bad on the books. Just my thought�
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Eug Wanker
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Jun 28, 2004, 07:17 AM
 
Originally posted by Detrius:
Also, being an Apple Certified Tech myself, that works at an Apple Authorized Service Center, I can say that we don't order all of our parts from Apple. There are cheaper options out there that give better warranties. The bad logic boards we saw did not get replaced through Apple.

So, even taking your laptop to an Apple Authorized Service Center does not add to the statistics. The only way to add to the statistics is to either call Apple or to have *Apple* do the repair (which can be significantly more expensive).
According to Apple, they will pay for the repair done at any Apple authorized service centre.
     
   
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