[Person Man]

Well, the Eurovision Contest starts on Thursday with the semi-final, and after spending time watching the music videos on the website I have to say I'm not really impressed with most of the entries.

A few WTFs are in order: What's up with France's entry being English and French? Are they trying to score higher than the bottom 4?

Greece is just meh. I do like Cyprus' entry though. But French? At least it's not English.

I see Germany is going back to its native language this year.

Anyone have ideas of who they think will win this year? Last year they predicted a bunch of Lordi-wannabes. I haven't seen evidence of that this year.

[voodoo]

The Spanish entry is also a 'mix' of English and Spanish. I guess they're thinking on the same lines as France.

I think it is a rather dull entry and sad because there is a lot of very good Spanish music and artists.

Iceland's entry is ok, a solid heavy metal ballad. I like those

V

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

The Spanish entry is also a 'mix' of English and Spanish. I guess they're thinking on the same lines as France.

I think it is a rather dull entry and sad because there is a lot of very good Spanish music and artists.

Iceland's entry is ok, a solid heavy metal ballad. I like those

V

To be fair, it seems to me that only a few lines are in English in the Spanish entry. Unless they have a heavy accent that made it difficult to understand.

Iceland's entry is kinda nice. Sort of like Anna Vissi last year. I overlooked Iceland when looking at the entries this evening because of last year's "joke" with Silvia Night.

Just watched England's entry. Oh. my. God. I thought last year's rapping teletubby was bad. They definitely aren't taking it seriously. If I ever get on a "flight" with them, I'm getting off the plane immediately. ("Would you like something to suck on for landing?" WTF?)

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Person Man 

Just watched England's entry. Oh. my. God. I thought last year's rapping teletubby was bad. They definately aren't taking it seriously. If I ever get on a "flight" with them, I'm getting off the plane immediately. ("Would you like something to suck on for landing?" WTF?)

Hehe the UK entry is the worst I've seen. It is too awful to be funny!

What kind of people voted for that song to represent the UK??! I just cancelled my "flight" with them.

V

[monkeybrain]

Yeah I think in the UK we only see it as a joke, that must be the only explanation because we sure have much better singers and songwriters of course. The voice0ver guy in the UK will just ridicule all the entries in a very funny way (but does get tiring after a while). It's good to watch with a few drinks though.

But this year many in the UK will be angry because the BBC have pushed back Doctor Who a week for Eurovision.

[Oisín]

Iceland’s entry is fairly okay—and in the Scandinavian pre-ESC show we have here (a ‘judge’ from each of the Northern countries give points to each song), Eirikur (the Icelandic singer) was humble enough not to give himself points, but rather let the anchorman do it for him

There are some really horrible songs this year, though. The Danish one is drag-queening in the “meh“ way. The Ukrainian one is drag-queening in the “WTF? What is that sh*t, and why has no one killed it yet?” way. It’s actually worse than the British one, and that’s saying something.

I like the Bosnian-Hercegovinian one, though I agree with Charlotte [Swedish ‘judge’ in above-mentioned show] that it will not benefit from being the first song out there. For some reason, though, the one song that keeps being stuck in my head, and that I really like, is the Georgian one. Too simple, really, with not enough (if any) verse, but I can’t help loving it.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

There are some really horrible songs this year, though. The Danish one is drag-queening in the “meh“ way. The Ukrainian one is drag-queening in the “WTF? What is that sh*t, and why has no one killed it yet?” way. It’s actually worse than the British one, and that’s saying something.

I like the Bosnian-Hercegovinian one, though I agree with Charlotte [Swedish ‘judge’ in above-mentioned show] that it will not benefit from being the first song out there. For some reason, though, the one song that keeps being stuck in my head, and that I really like, is the Georgian one. Too simple, really, with not enough (if any) verse, but I can’t help loving it.

*Person Man goes to the ESC website to watch the videos for the Danish, Ukranian, and Bosnian entries*

I'm at work on Thursday when the semi-final is on, so I can only watch the final on Saturday via webcast.

[voodoo]

In recent years with the telephone voting and all, only two elements are paramount in a winning song.

1. Performance on stage
2. The inclusion of sexy girls somehow

Point being, it doesn't matter how good a song is on video, it has to work on stage. Also it helps to have a lot of beautiful females (singing, dancing or something), because contrary to popular belief gay men don't watch the ESC as much as they'd like you to belive. At least that can only be deduced from the voting.

V

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

In recent years with the telephone voting and all, only two elements are paramount in a winning song.

1. Performance on stage
2. The inclusion of sexy girls somehow

Point being, it doesn't matter how good a song is on video, it has to work on stage. Also it helps to have a lot of beautiful females (singing, dancing or something), because contrary to popular belief gay men don't watch the ESC as much as they'd like you to belive. At least that can only be deduced from the voting.

V

No, you got it all wrong:

1. Weird costumes (a la Lordi)
2. Inclusion of sexy girls somehow
3. Inclusion of sexy girls somehow
4. Inclusion of sexy girls somehow
5. Stage performance
6. Did I mention sexy girls?

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Person Man 

No, you got it all wrong:

1. Weird costumes (a la Lordi)
2. Inclusion of sexy girls somehow
3. Inclusion of sexy girls somehow
4. Inclusion of sexy girls somehow
5. Stage performance
6. Did I mention sexy girls?

I would like to add no. 7: Sexy girls

V

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by Person Man 

*Person Man goes to the ESC website to watch the videos for the Danish, Ukranian, and Bosnian entries*

Denmark: WTF is that growing out of his head? He looks like Sideshow Bob, from the Simpsons



Ukraine: A dancing disco-ball with a fur stole. And an accordion.

Bosnia: Pretty singer. Nice sounding song, even though I don't understand a word of it.

Georgia: Nice ethnic sound at the beginning. Normal looking people

Romania: A study in how many languages can one pack into a 3 minute song. 6, apparently.

[turtle777]

Has anyone evar been impressed with the songs at the Eurovision ?

-t

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Has anyone evar been impressed with the songs at the Eurovision ?

-t

That's like asking if anyone has 'evar' been impressed with the plot in Hong-Kong Kung-Fu flicks. We're in it for the show and entertainment value. Not to be impressed with the songs.

It is TV at it's greatest in Europe. It's tradition. It's Eurovision.

V

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

That's like asking if anyone has 'evar' been impressed with the plot in Hong-Kong Kung-Fu flicks. We're in it for the show and entertainment value. Not to be impressed with the songs.

It is TV at it's greatest in Europe. It's tradition. It's Eurovision.

I remember the first time I ever heard of the Eurovision Song Contest. It was 2001, the year Estonia won. I was in Germany, visiting relatives. I remember thinking, "how nice, the countries uniting in the common bond of music." As the show went on, it became apparent that the focus was less on music and more on kitsch for the sake of kitsch.

I was in Greece in 2005 when they held their national selection process to choose which song Helena Paparizou was going to sing. I remembered her performance in 2001 with the group Antique and how they placed 3rd and figured she had a good chance of winning.

By the time the 2005 contest itself rolled around, I had it all figured out. It really has no "musical" value, but it sure is fun to watch and make fun of. And, occasionally, you find a song that's actually good.

In 2006, my father was in Greece and I was in the US, we were both watching it. I was watching the live internet stream, and we both called each other back and forth to make fun of the performers and/or songs. I imagine the same will happen this year. Again, Dad is in Greece and I'm here in the U.S.

Again, it sure is fun to watch and make fun of. Especially when you know a little about each country that's participating.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

It is TV at its sadest in Europe.
V

Fixinated.

-t

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Fixinated.

-t

Why be such a stick-in-the-mud? Just because something doesn't have any social or artistic redeeming values doesn't mean it's not fun to watch.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Has anyone evar been impressed with the songs at the Eurovision ?

-t

It was the career start for Abba... in 1974.

Also, Nicole's "Ein bisschen Frieden" back in 1982 was really sweet at the time.

I also remember being very impressed with the Swedes and "Diggy-loo Diggy-ley - and I'm walking in my Golden Shoes" two years later.

I was eleven.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Person Man 

Why be such a stick-in-the-mud? Just because something doesn't have any social or artistic redeeming values doesn't mean it's not fun to watch.

Well, I give you the fun to watch. More in the sense of laughing about it / them.

-t

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by analogika 

It was the career start for Abba... in 1974.

Also, Nicole's "Ein bisschen Frieden" back in 1982 was really sweet at the time.

I also remember being very impressed with the Swedes and "Diggy-loo Diggy-ley - and I'm walking in my Golden Shoes" two years later.

I was eleven.

Yeah, well, I remember watching this stuff as a teen in the 80s as well. But there is a heck of a difference between the 80s Eurovision and now. Back then it was just innocent "Schlager" music, but now, it's all kinds of crap.

Oh, I almost forgot to ask: Do you still like the music you liked as a 11 year old ? Gosh, I listened to some terrible stuff back then...

-t

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Fixinated.

-t

Meh. You're as slow as your handle.

V

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Well, I give you the fun to watch. More in the sense of laughing about it / them.

-t

What do you think my father and I each ran up $50 phone bills doing last year? We were making fun of the performers! And having a lot of fun doing so, too.

I just called him in Greece to remind him it starts today. He's going to watch the semi-final for me since I can't because I'm at work.

[voodoo]

Of the ten countries that made it tonight from the semi-final to the final this year:

9 Eastern European and 1 was middle-Eastern, 0 (zero) Western European.

Last year:

6 E-European countries, 1 Middle-Eastern and 3 Western European.

The first year of the semi-finals, 2005:

6 E-European countries, 1 Middle-Eastern and 3 Western European.

I see a trend. It is a boring trend. Some of the songs that made it to the finals tonight, made it because they were E-European and some *despite* being bad and badly performed.

The magic is to maintain a certain illusion that you don't always vote for your neighbour country no matter what. That illusion is shattered when a bad performance is not punished.

We want a show and performance matters. I have no idea how the following made it: Bulgaria, Turkey, Slovenia and FYR Macedonia. Certainly not on their own merits. The last one had a hot chic singing, but so had a lot of other songs. Such as Portugal. And despite a good performance, hot chic and a good song, they didn't make it into the top 10. Well, not a single W-European song made it, to be fair.

Anyways, this is third time that the semi-finals have been part of ESC and the trend is bad. The rules have to be changed, otherwise countries are going to get real tired, real fast.

In the old system, countries might have to wait a year if they did very badly the year before. But after the wait they had a shot at the title. Now, some countries have never made it up from the semi-finals and it seems only E-European countries do that. Peh.

V

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by voodoo

The last one had a hot chic singing, but so had a lot of other songs. Such as Portugal. And despite a good performance, hot chic and a good song, they didn't make it into the top 10.

Eh? I won’t disagree that she was fairly okay-looking, but Dança Comigo is a b-o-r-i-n-g song, she doesn’t sing very well, and the stage show was... well, very un-dancy, given the name of the song. Definitely didn’t deserve to go further.

Originally Posted by voodoo

Anyways, this is third time that the semi-finals have been part of ESC and the trend is bad. The rules have to be changed, otherwise countries are going to get real tired, real fast.

In the old system, countries might have to wait a year if they did very badly the year before. But after the wait they had a shot at the title. Now, some countries have never made it up from the semi-finals and it seems only E-European countries do that. Peh.

Agreed. ‘Back in the day’ is was pretty clear that the Iberians/Italians voted for each other, the Scandinavians voted for each other, the Balkans/Greece voted for each other, and the ‘middle belt’ (Ireland, UK, France, Switzerland, Austria) took turns voted for each other. That is, they gave their best votes to their ‘partners’, and distributed the lower votes relatively equally.

Nowadays, all the Eastern European countries (including the Balkans, and even Greece) vote for each other, and no one else. And since they’re now greater in number than all of Western Europe put together, that leaves Western Europe with barely a chance.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

Nowadays, all the Eastern European countries (including the Balkans, and even Greece) vote for each other, and no one else. And since they’re now greater in number than all of Western Europe put together, that leaves Western Europe with barely a chance.

They keep talking about overhauling the voting system. I think it's going to end up as a hybrid between a panel of judges in each country and televoting. Or, a panel of judges at the contest that judge everybody, with the televoting. They could announce each country's televoting results and see them combined with the judges' votes.

I'm sure enough countries will be angered that they'll demand some sort of change if one is not already in the works.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

Eh? I won’t disagree that she was fairly okay-looking, but Dança Comigo is a b-o-r-i-n-g song, she doesn’t sing very well, and the stage show was... well, very un-dancy, given the name of the song. Definitely didn’t deserve to go further.

If she hadn't colored her hair blonde, she'd actually look much hotter, though I would have liked her looks very much as they were. 'Dança Comigo' was the only song that I could imagine hearing more than 5 times without feeling empty inside. It had a certain spirit, a certain 'no sé qué'

Agreed. ‘Back in the day’ is was pretty clear that the Iberians/Italians voted for each other, the Scandinavians voted for each other, the Balkans/Greece voted for each other, and the ‘middle belt’ (Ireland, UK, France, Switzerland, Austria) took turns voted for each other. That is, they gave their best votes to their ‘partners’, and distributed the lower votes relatively equally.

There were certainly cliques, there always have been and it seems to be nature of the show to form these. It is unconcious, seeing as entire nations do this without having ever been indocrined with "thou shalt always vote for thine neighbour in Eurovision" or something. Still, I'd never vote for Italy. Kinda like I'd never vote for Sweden. There are some countries, though being or having been my neighbouring country just are too full of themselves and too annoying to deserve a vote from me.

Nowadays, all the Eastern European countries (including the Balkans, and even Greece) vote for each other, and no one else. And since they’re now greater in number than all of Western Europe put together, that leaves Western Europe with barely a chance.

That leaves W-Europe without a real chance. If the rules of the semi-finals aren't somehow, the ESC is going to overflood each year with some weird techno-pop and a much more boring show for W-Europe.

Perhaps this semi-final/final thing was a bad idea or a good idea badly executed. The ESC is constantly revising the rules, so I'm sure this will be taken care of somehow.

V

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Perhaps this semi-final/final thing was a bad idea or a good idea badly executed. The ESC is constantly revising the rules, so I'm sure this will be taken care of somehow.

V

Let's have two Eurovision semi-finals: Eurovision East, and Eurovision West, lol. Spread them out over time. The top five from each one get to go to the final.

Somehow I don't think they'd go for it.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Still, I'd never vote for Italy. Kinda like I'd never vote for Sweden. There are some countries, though being or having been my neighbouring country just are too full of themselves and too annoying to deserve a vote from me.

So your real beef is that Eastern Europe has understood *exactly* how the Eurovision Contest has worked for the past 50 years, and judge with the exact same idiocy that you use to judge. It's not about the songs, just about national stereotypes and sympathies.

Originally Posted by voodoo 

That leaves W-Europe without a real chance. If the rules of the semi-finals aren't somehow, the ESC is going to overflood each year with some weird techno-pop and a much more boring show for W-Europe.

The trend has been towards weird techno-pop and boring shows for *years*.

It's probably time to re-define the rules, agreed.

But really, don't pretend this thing was ever a high-point of culture, or ever fair, or ever - at least not in the last 25 years - of any importance!

[Oisín]

So your real beef is that Eastern Europe has understood *exactly* how the Eurovision Contest has worked for the past 50 years, and judge with the exact same idiocy that you use to judge. It's not about the songs, just about national stereotypes and sympathies.

The difference is that there used to be a balance between the different ‘cliques’, which made it an actual competition—nowadays, the East Bloc is more or less a huge, single unit with only in-voting. The balance between the cliques has been destroyed.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

The difference is that there used to be a balance between the different ‘cliques’, which made it an actual competition—nowadays, the East Bloc is more or less a huge, single unit with only in-voting. The balance between the cliques has been destroyed.

Exactly! Oisín gets it completely. Spheric gets the dunce-cap.

V

[analogika]

I agree with oisin.

But that's just a factor of everybody doing what's always been done. Which is why it's time for regulation changes, as I agreed.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by analogika 

I agree with oisin.

But that's just a factor of everybody doing what's always been done. Which is why it's time for regulation changes, as I agreed.

Ah don't you just love it when we're lika one big happy family

V

[Person Man]

What do you Europe-dwellers* think of the suggestions I made? I mean, I'm still a relative outsider to the world of Eurovision, so I could be way off base.

This is only the fourth contest I will have seen, but I picked up on the political nature of the voting within a few minutes of watching the announcments of the results of the 2001 Copenhagen contest, which was the first one I saw.

*Nothing meant by that other than you live there, while I live in the U.S. Though because my father is a Greek citizen, I could get dual citizenship if I wanted to.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Person Man 

What do you Europe-dwellers* think of the suggestions I made? I mean, I'm still a relative outsider to the world of Eurovision, so I could be way off base.

This is only the fourth contest I will have seen, but I picked up on the political nature of the voting within a few minutes of watching the announcments of the results of the 2001 Copenhagen contest, which was the first one I saw.

*Nothing meant by that other than you live there, while I live in the U.S. Though because my father is a Greek citizen, I could get dual citizenship if I wanted to.

Well, something has to be done. Your suggestion might well work for to create some balance. Without balance a lot of the fun with Eurovision is lost.

Always when obvious flaws or imbalances have occurred the rules have been changed to reflect that and restore the balance in the ESC. After all this is a competition for fun, not to play the rules to win.

If there is no fun, there is no point to it. So it must be remidied.

One of the problems is that neighbors don't always support each other. France and Germany aren't a clique and and Greece and Turkey aren't a clique, Switzerland nor are Austria and the Czeck republic to name but a few. So proximity doesn't always indicate a clique.

Maybe an East vs West split would work, but I'd really like to see it work on a pan European/Meditterranean scale as it is now. Somehow.. I just don't have a clue how it could.

Here's a map, if anyone can figure out how to fix this problem:

http://www.nationsonline.org/maps/co...europe_map.jpg

V

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Here's a map, if anyone can figure out how to fix this problem:

http://www.nationsonline.org/maps/co...europe_map.jpg

V

Lol, did you look at that map? Look at Spain. "Españia?" How do you pronounce that? "Espanyia?" Tienen que aprender como se escribe "España," ¿no?

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Person Man 

Lol, did you look at that map? Look at Spain. "Españia?" How do you pronounce that? "Espanyia?" Tienen que aprender como se escribe "España," ¿no?

Hehe, sí tienes razón

Tiene que ser mezcla entre Catalán y Castellano (España+Espanya=Españia) o algo. No tengo ni idea..

V

[Oisín]

Agus ní ceart an dóigh mar a scríobh siad “Éire”, chomh maith—scríobh siad “Èire” (sin é mar a scríobhtar i nGàidhilg na hAlban, go bhfios domh).

And what’s with only writing the local names of about half the countries? At first I thought it was only the ‘current EU member countries’ (the faeces-orange ones) that had local names—but then I noticed that the Netherlands, Switzerland, and Belgium didn’t have any either.

Strange map.

Edit: Uh, yeah. Switzerland isn’t actually, of course, an EU member country. Make that just Belgium and the Netherlands, then.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

Agus ní ceart an dóigh mar a scríobh siad “Éire”, chomh maith—scríobh siad “Èire” (sin é mar a scríobhtar i nGàidhilg na hAlban, go bhfios domh).

You know Gaelic, too? Ντρέπομαι που ξέρω μόνο 4 γλώσσες. I don't understand Gaelic, but I think I understand what you're saying there.

(the faeces-orange ones)

ROFLMAO.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Tiene que ser mezcla entre Catalán y Castellano (España+Espanya=Españia) o algo. No tengo ni idea..

Hmm. Would that be "Castelán, or Catallano?"

[TETENAL]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...rticipants.png

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...rticipants.png

What an insult. Most of these countries don't even speak European.



-t

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Person Man 

You know Gaelic, too? Ντρέπομαι που ξέρω μόνο 4 γλώσσες. I don't understand Gaelic, but I think I understand what you're saying there.



ROFLMAO.

Yeah, the grave accent is not used in Irish, only in Scottish Gaelic (Gàidhlig—misspelled in previous post), so “Èire” isn’t right, either. It’s Scottish, rather than Irish, Gaelic.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

That leaves W-Europe without a real chance. If the rules of the semi-finals aren't somehow, the ESC is going to overflood each year with some weird techno-pop and a much more boring show for W-Europe.

And btw, just had my first exposure to any of the songs apart from the German one (which of course I've heard), and it strikes me that the only techno-pop number from an Eastern European country was Ukraine's, which I thought was hilarious.

Romania (?) was fabulous Balkan-polka, Moldavia and Russia were rock-guitar-drenched pop a la t.A.T.u.

As opposed to the terrifying BRITISH entry, which was just atrociously bad trash-techno.

I only got snippets, so excuse me if I mixed things up, but it struck me that "techno pop" was not something that seemed to apply to the ex-Eastern-bloc.

[Person Man]

My father actually liked the Greek entry. Weird.

[Person Man]

Serbia? SERBIA?

Ukraine came in 2nd?

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Person Man 

Serbia? SERBIA?

Can't say much about the song, but DAMN, she's good.

Her performance at the end of that whole evening was very impressive.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Can't say much about the song, but DAMN, she's good.

Her performance at the end of that whole evening was very impressive.

Yes, I'll give you that.

[Oisín]

Serbia almost deserved to win, I agree. On my own little voting card (I was at a Eurovision party where everyone got little voting cards and cast their own votes), I put Georgia, which was my favourite from the get-go, at 12 points, and Serbia at 10. Great singer, passionate performance, good song.

Putting the Ukraine in second place, though, combined with the fact that one of the worst songs ever to enter the competition (apart from this Ukrainian one)—Fly on the Wings of Love by the Olsen Brothers for Denmark back in 1999 or so—actually managed to win the whole damn thing, has convinced me that Europe is not to be trusted for anything at all anymore, and is in fact completely and utter f*cked. I lost all faith in humanity when we won in 1999 (or whenever it was); this just aggravated it.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

I lost all faith in humanity when we won in 1999 (or whenever it was); this just aggravated it.

2000. My first Eurovision contest was 2001, and it was in Copenhagen.

[ajprice]

Most of the songs were awful, some were not bad really even if they were kind of identikit versions of known bands (Evanescence for Finland, Sugababes/Girls Aloud for Russia...). But there was a lot of political votes between the friendly countries, as there always is recently. The eastern Europeans vote for each other, same for the Scandinavian countries, and the same for, erm, UK and Ireland. Oh and did anyone else want to punch the woman they had backstage with the pink dress?

[analogika]

Originally Posted by ajprice 

Oh and did anyone else want to punch the woman they had backstage with the pink dress?

Yes, but she's Finnish, so she had a great excuse for being batshit crazy.