[WincentColaiuta]

In a discussion with a friend the other night about software piracy, we came up with the idea of a place where developers could collaborate and exchange information that would help reduce software piracy.

This would be a kind of clearinghouse in which developers could share information about anti-piracy methods, copy protection, maintain known-pirate watchlists and so forth.

It would be maintained and run by developers, and would be quite distinct from sites like that of the Business Software Alliance which are mostly concerned with corporate piracy and "going after the big fish".

The basic premise is this: pirates form communities and share cracks, serial numbers, warez etc. Why shouldn't developers also organize communities to counter these?

Clearly, this would need to be done with some shrewdness. For example, we don't want someone posting to the forum saying, "Look out! Serial number XXX for application YYY has just leaked and you should block it!". Such a tool would soon become nothing more than another resource for would-be pirates. One solution is that there could be "members only" areas restricted to developers publicly associated with an application. (For example, in my case, my email address is [email protected] and it is clearly visible on the website of a publically released commercial application.)

Also self-evident is that such a community could only be maintained if it had the support of a large number of volunteers. We would all prefer be spending time developing software rather than chasing pirates. So clearly, a collaborative effort is the only way in which the workload could be sufficiently dispersed to make the project feasible.

[A somewhat more radical idea is that we could go beyond mere information sharing towards active blacklisting of known pirates. I am thinking along the lines of the realtime spam blacklists like the MAPS RBL. Here we could maintain a list of email addresses and names with a history of piracy and use that information to pre-emptively block the issuing of serial numbers to known pirates.]

At this stage, it's just an idea. A good domain name is available (piracywatch.org), should enough people express an interest in maintaining this.

I just wanted to throw the idea out here and see what people said.

[Jan Van Boghout]

Originally posted by WincentColaiuta:
<snip>

I guess the idea isn't bad, but I wonder if it will not just be another extra kick for hackers. They seem to do it for fun
What would be best is some way to prevent the capable hackers from generating numbers (making hack-proof serial number systems is time consuming, so perhaps a 'deal' with some famous hackers? ). It would much more effectively block all serial number supplies from the 'dummy' pirate. Just a thought

[Arkham_c]

I just download the latest Surfers' Serials each month, and whatever serial numbers for my apps are in it, I add them to the "****Em" function of my apps, which randomly deletes a different preference file from the machine using the pirated serial number every time it's launched

[hamiltondj]

Originally posted by Arkham_c:
I just download the latest Surfers' Serials each month, and whatever serial numbers for my apps are in it, I add them to the "****Em" function of my apps, which randomly deletes a different preference file from the machine using the pirated serial number every time it's launched

While I like the tatic, you should know that you could be prosecuted under the computer fraud statute for doing this.

[sandsl]

Originally posted by Arkham_c:
<snip>add them to the "****Em" function of my apps, which randomly deletes a different preference file <snip>

Naughty developer. Thats both imoral and illegal - your just as bad as the pirate!

[Detrius]

Originally posted by Arkham_c:
I just download the latest Surfers' Serials each month, and whatever serial numbers for my apps are in it, I add them to the "****Em" function of my apps, which randomly deletes a different preference file from the machine using the pirated serial number every time it's launched

What if someone legitimately buys a serial number, but someone else sneaks it from them. Then the person that bought the serial number did nothing wrong. If they updated their software, they would be in a heap of trouble using your method.

[tikki]

am I the only one that thinks that is incredibly funny? You guys need a sense of humor.

[Wevah]

Yeah...funny like a root canal.

[Colonel_Panic]

Yeah if I payed for that software and my preferences started deleting themselfs I would hunt you down and break your jaw. If you lived to far away I would try and become your best friend over the net and let you try out some of MY software

[absmiths]

Originally posted by Arkham_c:
I just download the latest Surfers' Serials each month, and whatever serial numbers for my apps are in it, I add them to the "****Em" function of my apps, which randomly deletes a different preference file from the machine using the pirated serial number every time it's launched

Well, first off, we are only talking about Preference files, so it's not like he's deleting valuable data, just causing a nuisance.

That said, it doesn't really sound much like good faith on your part. I would approach it like (I believe) Ambrosia does - have the application produce seemingly random fatal errors and if anyone actually calls for help you will know immediately that they are using pirated software.

[dampeoples]

While I think it sounds like a good idea, I don't see developers handing out their anti-piracy schemes.

[macmike42]

Originally posted by dampeoples:
While I think it sounds like a good idea, I don't see developers handing out their anti-piracy schemes.

If they aren't willing to open source (or at least market) their anti-piracy code, it clearly isn't very good code. See unsanity.org's archives for some excellent discussions on the matter.

[Jan Van Boghout]

Originally posted by macmike42:
If they aren't willing to open source (or at least market) their anti-piracy code, it clearly isn't very good code. See unsanity.org's archives for some excellent discussions on the matter.

Uhm. Posting the *exact* source code of a registration system used in your apps is like saying "Hey everybody, compile this and get a free registration for all my apps"

[dampeoples]

Originally posted by Jan Van Boghout:
Uhm. Posting the *exact* source code of a registration system used in your apps is like saying "Hey everybody, compile this and get a free registration for all my apps"

i would say that even posting the idea would be enough for the sufficiently clever to make a workaround.

[macvillage.net]

I think it should be the coallitoin of shareware developers.

Bug business is all the BSA represents.

How many millions of copies of shareware programs are pirated? You don't hear about shareware companies getting back.

[nforcer]

Kind of ironic that a guy who used to test and post info about leaked mac os x versions before 10.0 wants to start a coalition of shareware developers against piracy. (Although it was really interesting to read about the changes from version and version, and I would actually like to have you do it again, if you could...)

But addressing the subject at hand, I think it would be a good idea, and I think it should be done. Anything that helps cut down on the (widespread) piracy of shareware apps would be beneficial to all shareware authors.

[eno]

Originally posted by nforcer:
Kind of ironic that a guy who used to test and post info about leaked mac os x versions before 10.0 wants to start a coalition of shareware developers against piracy. (Although it was really interesting to read about the changes from version and version, and I would actually like to have you do it again, if you could...)

In Wincent's defense: That wasn't piracy, it was journalism. He didn't deprive Apple of potential income; if anything,he actually augmented it by whipping up people's interest in the software.

Besides, it wasn't even possible to buy it back then.

[Angus_D]

Originally posted by eno:
That wasn't piracy

Technically, it was. He did not have a license to use the software.

[Stevos]

This is bad.

Copy protection is bad.

Anything that has ANY chance of getting in a legitimate users way is bad karma.

If I wanted that stuff I'd use Windows and deal with re-activating my computer when I add more RAM.

Seriously, the chances are all too high that some non-pirate will get screwed over at some point, especially with blacklisting.

Lastly, if you put together an organization, it becomes an open 'us vs. them' atmosphere. That will drive pirates on more. Secondly, blacklisting prevents users from ever 'going clean'. Just as cable companies have 'get legal, no questions asked' numbers, you'd need a quick way to remove people from the list.

[Gametes]

I realize this isn't a thread about the technical aspects of registrations, but...

Why not just have the user register by putting their Mac's serial number in the buy form, then at program launch the program gets the serial number and checks it against your internet database. Therefore the only way to cheat would be to either hack your database or to change the computer's serial number (or make the program think you had), both of which seem pretty hard to me to do.

What is wrong with that scheme.

[Stevos]

In response to the above:
now, when I buy a new computer, I have to call every goddamn vendor and get a new key

No thanks