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iPod Forum Creation
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Dedicated MacNNer
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Dear MacNN Moderators,
I was just curious, would it be possible to create a separate iPod forum/section? I don't know if there is sufficient need to create a separate one, but it would be great in some cases.
Poll: Would it be worthwhile?
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it's a peripheral like anything else you plug into your machine. how would having a separate forum for ipods be beneficial? if you are having trouble finding ipod-related threads in this forum, use the search function.
-r.
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Last edited by rjenkinson; Feb 8, 2004 at 12:51 AM.
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Dedicated MacNNer
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rjerkinson,
It makes up quite a bit of the mothership's profit quota and R&D, that's all. Times change.
Btw, how many people own an iPod? I do. two.
How many people own a Mac? I do. One.
Just curious.
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both of those things are irrelevant to whether there should or should not be a new forum for the ipod. what is relevant is how often people post questions about the ipod in the peripherals forum. looking at it now, i can't see questions about other peripherals being drowned out by ipod-related topics. that's why a separate forum isn't needed.
-r.
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Senior User
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Originally posted by echosphere:
Dear MacNN Moderators,
I was just curious, would it be possible to create a separate iPod forum/section? I don't know if there is sufficient need to create a separate one, but it would be great in some cases.
Poll: Would it be worthwhile?
Too many forums already. Who needs another.
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Seems I'm wrong. Ok.
But when the Mini comes out, the flood of posts might make it a bit much.
Plus, (addressed to MacNN) some people are converting to Macs Via the iPod. Just thought it might me easier for them to find their way if they had an iPod forum as a 'gateway'' to Mactopia (not MS). That's all.
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Dedicated MacNNer
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Btw, we're all Dinosaurs.
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My suggestion is to go to ipodlounge.com
Best site for ipodders
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Whoa, ipodlounge is scary. I love my iPod and everything, but not THAT much...
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Mac Elite
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Since it is the most popular Mp3 player ever made it seems it deserves it's own little nook here on the forums.
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it's not like the peripherals forum is inundated with ipod posts, and you have to wade through them to find a post that is not about ipods.
so i don't think that their should be a separate ipod section.
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Just got an iPod a few days ago. Loving it and would love an iPod forum here as well.
It'd save having to do a search and wade through all sorts of crap on printers and esoteric stuff on the Peripherals forum as one idley cruises for the latest iPod news.
Get one up and running and it'd save the need to bounce around other sites as well.
Small though it is, iPod is an Apple flagship and deserves its own lake here on MacNN.
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this has been discussed a bunch of times. its not that flooded in here for it to deserve its own forum. hell. someone could just make a sticky FAQ and answer the constant barrage of dozen or so questions that people constantly ask.
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I say why not? It can't hurt anything can it? I for one, would like to have an iPod forum. I'm sure it's not gonna use up any extra bandwidth, and adding one more forum, is not gonna change the site that much. Geez!
And really...I wouldn't really consider an iPod a peripheral. It's a stand alone device, that operates on it's own, not like a printer, k/b, mouse, hub, controller, webcam, joystick, scanner, monitor....which all are true peripherals in the sense that they are tools to use 'with' the computer, to expand it...that don't operate stand alone. Hell, they're "pretty much" all under the "Accessories" section on Apple's site. The iPod has it's own full section...with it's own accessories section, because it's a full-on stand alone device....just like a Powerbook, or Power Mac.
And right now...the iPod pretty much is Apple's flagship...coming to a website, that's dedicated to all things Mac....you'd think there would be a forum for such a popular item as the iPod.
My .02
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Last edited by Minty Fresh; Feb 10, 2004 at 03:57 PM.
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Your absolutely right Minty!
One more vote for iPod getting it's own nook!
Noah
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I wouldn't mind seeing a combined iPod/PDA forum, especially since the iPods seem to be gaining bits of PDA-like functionality.
Add that to "Other Peripherals" (printers, scanners, speakers, monitors, keyboards, etc), and it might be a bit better organized.
Or not.
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I would really love to have an iPod or iPod/iTunes forum. I believe this is the way Apple's own message boards are organized. Yes, the iPod is a peripheral, but it is also more of a standalone product (unlike a mouse or keyboard) that sells in high volume crossplatform. Music is also becoming much more of focus for Apple as a company.
There seems to be such rigidity against the idea, but it seems to be worth at least a trial. Benefits, drawbacks, etc. for both members and mods/admins can only be speculated upon until that point.
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A music forum devoted to all of apples music related stuff would be ... interesting.
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Yeah, this comes up every so often. I am all for an iTunes/iPod forum, it makes a lot of sense, I mean entire Websites and BB's are dedicated to it. Yes, it is a peripheral, but it's is somewhat unique in the Apple product line up especially given it's close tie in with iTunes.
I think it would be worth creating a "Special" forum to gauge interest. One could almost guarantee it would do much better than some of these other forums.
I'm sure it will pass with out action and pop up yet again.
Thinks have gotten much more rigid since I first joined this BB.
And so it goes.
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zzz
enough of these topics.
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we don't have time to stop for gas
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Mac Enthusiast
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Originally posted by PeterClark2002:
zzz
enough of these topics.
Well...obviously there are quite a few people that want to see a seperate iPod forum. Why not just make it...so it doesn't come up anymore?
I mean seriosuly...why are people against it? I mean...are you afraid that with the added forum...the main forum page will be so long that will take you an extra click on your mouse wheel to scroll to the bottom!?
With the iPod mini shipping next week, I think we're bound to see a rise in posts about the iPod. And it just keeps picking up steam...so why not? Is it really gonna hurt anything?
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i say make one, and make all the stupid sh!t announcements- things like how to get music off an ipod, if you should leave it in the dock, and a link to www.ipodlounge.com
i gues once thats done tho, there will no need for a forum. hows bout just making the fyi stuff announcements? or even just stickies.
-Dan.
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This is what I like about MacNN, constant debate with good comments. Thanks especially to all the support above for a separate iPod forum.
Let's face it, I hate stickes, you hate stickies, we all do, they are annoying at times, but useful. Thank god it stopped all those "do you have white spots?" posts, but stickies arent the answer.
I really like the poster above who suggested the iPod/iTunes Forum. This would save all those those who want to ask a question about PB/iTunes/iPod questions, etc, for example. People who innocently need to start a post by saying "...I don't know if this is the right place, but I have a PB and trying to sinc iTunes with my iPod, etc.." Does this belong in the PB section? Peripherals? Software? Or is it an OS question?
Having an iPod/iTunes forum would solve these problems and help new people out. Heck we might even get Windows people in here. For instance, they might be hey, I own a Dell but the girlfriend wants an iBook, what should I get? Then, with all the support from great MacNN posters (I'm serious, met some some people here that saved my digital butt when I needed to solve issues with my setup, and I only have about 100 posts), he would be like cool thanks, I might look into a PowerMac G5 or a PB when my Dell (finally dies). See I look at these forums as a place to meet and talk shop about latest happenings, but I also think that forums like these are what keeps the Mac community alive and growing. I personally am scared of Apple losing market share. If it comes a day when one of programs is no longer on the Mac and I'm forced to use a PC, I'll cry. That's why it's self preservation that motivates me to attract new mac users (converted 3 so far, but lost my parents in the process, they love how XP works, sigh).
I sincerely think we need a forum for iPod/iTunes. If only to get some of the questions out of the way of the other forums, thereby, if you don't own an iPod (or don't like them **Gasp**). You won't have wade through posts about them as much.
Also, I am not trying to be disrespectful to those longtime posters, but if you scroll back up, most of those who see no need for an iPod/iTunes forums are senior members. That's why I said "we're all dinosaurs"
Best,
Echo
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....and if it flops, you can just herd the discussions back to the Peripherals forum.
But if it's worthwhile, you be as cool as Al Gore when he invented the Internet.
C'mon give it shot, what have you got to lose? The Mini is set to release, now's a good time to start it. Ever other mac product has its own forum. Why not the iPod?
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we don't need one.. these questions always seem to pop up when new ipod updates are made. If one is considered, then it may be for the peripherals for the peripheral... so many accessories now for the iPod? Maybe we are on to something but still.... as of now, no need. Then when it goes digital video... we will discuss this again.
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Dedicated MacNNer
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Saw the sticky in Software forum reminding posters to do a search for iTunes post prior to posting. Sounds like it is even becoming a little annoying for the Moderators.
Seriously, why not make an iPod/iTunes forum?
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Originally posted by echosphere:
Seriously, why not make an iPod/iTunes forum?
because you can go around making new forums for specific products. a lot of people have microsoft or kensington mice. should they get their own forum? how about the isight? or various brands of digital cameras? the ipod is a peripheral just like any other.
-r.
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Originally posted by rjenkinson:
because you can go around making new forums for specific products. a lot of people have microsoft or kensington mice. should they get their own forum? how about the isight? or various brands of digital cameras? the ipod is a peripheral just like any other.
-r.
But you see....it's not just a peripheral like any thing else. You can't compare a mouse, k/b, or iSight to the iPod! They need the computer to work, they are input/ouput devices. The iPod is a stand alone, full functioning device.
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For a growing number of people, iPod is their link to the Apple world. Its about as much like a wimpy kensington mouse as an asteroid is like a star.
As others have said iPod draws lost souls over to the Apple side.
For all who love Apple we are hurting ourselves by tossing iPod messages in with lifeless periperhals.
iPod is a point of light for those lost in the oppressive darkness of the windows computer hegemony.
There's a decessive majority of poll respondants who want a justly deserved iPod dedicated forum. why not JUST MAKE IT NOW.
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For those against an iPod forum creation, it appears the argument is "the iPod is a peripheral, therefore it belongs in the peripherals forum." However, by that line of reasoning, there should NOT be separate Powerbook and iBook forums since they are both laptops, nor should there be both an iMac or PowerMac forum since they are both are desktops.
I believe one possible rebuttal to this criticism might be "well, it's a home vs. professional classification;" however, I believe the distinction is even greater between an iPod and other Apple peripherals, such as a keyboard or mouse. The bottom line is that the iPod is a major Apple hardware product, which is for the most part standalone - unlike the keyboard and mouse peripherals (the displays are another issue are not the focus of this thread), and it is perfectly reasonable to consider giving the iPod a dedicated forum just as other major Apple hardware products have on this site.
For those still against the idea, I honestly don't understand what harm it could do from a user's perspective. Although it may cause some initial confusion, this can easily be overcome. I also think it would provide an improved organization of the Apple hardware section and possibly stimulate iPod interest even further. If the iPod forum became a lively place of discussion, I imagine it would not only help members troubleshoot, but help influence others to buy an iPod.
However, I also imagine a new forum may require extra resources from the mods/admins, who may or may not be able to provide the extra support. The decision ultimately lies with them, but I would like to get an understanding of their concerns with a new forum creation. I would still then advocate for at least a trial with a new iPod forum to assess cost/benefit to members and admins/mods. I don't think anyone will honestly know if it's a good idea or not until it is tried.
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Sorry for being so rash, never thought about how it would eat extra resources from the Mods, I understand how it would add extra burden.
Btw, what does iPod mean? I once heard that Ive's called it the Personal Operating Device, or Portable Operating Device? Can't remember for sure. But it was never meant to be called just an "MP3 Player". So much that it could do, crikey, what if Steve envisions something like the oqo? www.oqo.com
Well Mods, it's in your court, understand if you don't want to have an iPod/iTunes forum. Please let us know though?
All the Best,
Echo
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Originally posted by Minty Fresh:
But you see....it's not just a peripheral like any thing else. You can't compare a mouse, k/b, or iSight to the iPod! They need the computer to work, they are input/ouput devices. The iPod is a stand alone, full functioning device.
How do you get music on and off it again? It's not quite a "standalone" device, pity the poor sucker that buys one without having a computer to manage the music.
DRM
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Originally posted by drmcnutt:
How do you get music on and off it again? It's not quite a "standalone" device, pity the poor sucker that buys one without having a computer to manage the music.
DRM
Nonetheless, the vast majority of actual useage with the iPod is away from the computer. You can't say that about a mouse, keyboard, display, or iSight. In fact, it is entirely possible to charge the iPod nightly through a wall outlet and only sync with the computer on occasion (e.g., after music is added). Although not completely standalone, the iPod is primarily used in a standalone manner (i.e., listening to music away from the computer).
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how or where you use a peripheral doesn't make it any less a peripheral.
-r.
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Whether one thinks of the iPod as a "peripheral" or a "stand alone, full functioning device" or a magic white rock is all beside the point;
LOOK AT THE POLL RESULTS.
The people using this site clearly desire a specialized iPod forum.
Why not give it to us??????????????????
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Originally posted by shrink:
However, I also imagine a new forum may require extra resources from the mods/admins, who may or may not be able to provide the extra support. The decision ultimately lies with them, but I would like to get an understanding of their concerns with a new forum creation. .
There is no need for massive attention to be paid to any forum outside of the Lounge. The support needed could easily be filled by anyone with 15 minutes to kill once or twice a day. In fact they could easily make a new mod with limited capabilities to look after the new forum. I am sure there would be willing members that the admins could trust with the job. I think they are just reluctant to do it due to their ideology over how the board should look.
But I don't think there should be a sole forum for the iPod but rather for the iLine... the iApps, iSight, and iPod. The integration that is supposed to exist among them lends to a whole series of problems that are unique among hardware and software. The Apple forums suck, and the iChat/iSight & iPod/iTunes sites are too fanatical to be able to give full support to anyone who wants them to all interact with each other. And as time progresses they will all interact to a higher degree which will yield more of these questions. There is a niche to fill here that I have not yet seen any popular Apple forum tackle, but I doubt MacNN will be the one to fill it.
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Originally posted by rjenkinson:
how or where you use a peripheral doesn't make it any less a peripheral.
-r.
Nor do separate iBook/Powerbook and iMac/PowerMac forums make them any less laptops and desktops respectively.
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Originally posted by shrink:
Nor do separate iBook/Powerbook and iMac/PowerMac forums make them any less laptops and desktops respectively.
...or a "computer." or hey, let's just have one forum called "stuff." but we're not talking about decreasing the number of forums, are we? if you made a new forum for every single popular new peripheral you'd find the forums here quickly becoming a pain to browse. you trade off usability for the thrill of seeing an ipod forum or whatever.
-r.
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Originally posted by rjenkinson:
...or a "computer." or hey, let's just have one forum called "stuff." but we're not talking about decreasing the number of forums, are we? if you made a new forum for every single popular new peripheral you'd find the forums here quickly becoming a pain to browse. you trade off usability for the thrill of seeing an ipod forum or whatever.
-r.
Hmm...I suppose...there is iPodlounge.com for all things iPod. But you have to admit, it is a landmark product. I think people love their iPods almost - if not more than - as much as their Macs.
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Originally posted by rjenkinson:
... if you made a new forum for every single popular new peripheral you'd find the forums here quickly becoming a pain to browse. you trade off usability for the thrill of seeing an ipod forum or whatever.
-r.
First of all, if I am understanding your argument correctly, it is based on classification (iPod = peripheral; therefore belongs in peripherals forum). Well, the iPod is quite different from other peripherals both in impact and usability (see various comments above). Furthermore, if classification is so important to you, why is it acceptable and sensible to have separate iBook/Powerbook forums and not just a portable/laptop forum? The difference between an iPod and a mouse is MUCH greater than the difference between an iBook and Powerbook.
Secondly, no one is asking for a new forum for "every single popular new peripheral" - just one...and an iPod forum would hardly make this site "a pain to browse." In fact, it would actually improve usability in many peoples' opinions. I understand your concern about spawning senseless forums, but there is absolutely no evidence that would happen.
Furthermore, I also fail to see how the presence of the ipodlounge acts as an argument against having an iPod forum here. By that logic, there should be no forums here altogether since other Mac forums already exist. If anything, the ipodlounge underscores the glaring omission of an iPod forum here - a major Apple hardware product that has had tremendous cultural influence does not merit special attention on an Apple news site
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If a new forum is made it should be itunes, ipod, and other Mac music stuff. They all go together, and it would prevent the problems of where do I post if I have an ipod that works on a 12" ibook but not my G5...
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LOOK AT THE POLL RESULTS,
OVER 70% are hanging out for an iPOD forum.
I wonder how much perecent is required to convince the moderaters and the nay-sayers that the times are a changing and the time of the iPOD forum is but a decession and a few actions away . . .
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Originally posted by shrink:
First of all, if I am understanding your argument correctly, it is based on classification (iPod = peripheral; therefore belongs in peripherals forum). Well, the iPod is quite different from other peripherals both in impact and usability (see various comments above). Furthermore, if classification is so important to you, why is it acceptable and sensible to have separate iBook/Powerbook forums and not just a portable/laptop forum? The difference between an iPod and a mouse is MUCH greater than the difference between an iBook and Powerbook.
it is acceptable and sensible because those forums already exist and because far more people have consumer and professional machines than people have ipods. the number of threads about powerbooks or imacs, for example, far outweighs the number of threads about ipods. thus, we don't need an ipod forum, just as we don't need an isight forum, an apple batteries forum, and so on.
second, how would creating an ipod forum help you more than the existing peripherals forum? convince me of this, since what you seem to be asking for is nothing more than breaking the peripherals forum in two and giving one half a name change. being an apple fan is fine, but it is not a particularly good reason for creating new forums. are you unable to find answers to your ipod-related questions? if so, you should learn to search for ipod-related threads, if that's all you're interested in. creating a new forum when existing forums meet the need is unnecessary. not searching for threads within that forum is just laziness.
finally, you are right to say that no one is asking for new forums for every peripheral under the sun. but where do you draw the line? if there were an ipod forum, you'd have a much more difficult time explaining why existing forums shouldn't be broken into more specific forums. i'm happy where the line is now since i think the number and focus of the forums offers a good balance between meaningful division and usability.
-r.
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Mac Enthusiast
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Originally posted by masugu:
Hmm...I suppose...there is iPodlounge.com for all things iPod. But you have to admit, it is a landmark product. I think people love their iPods almost - if not more than - as much as their Macs.
To all iPodlounge Forum Members:
It is with deep regret that the iPodlounge Forum Staff must announce a major forum database failure. Late on the evening of February 15th, the main iPodlounge forum database (MySQL) was inadvertently corrupted while creating a new forum section, causing significant loss of data.
Due to difficulties in restoring the database from our regular backups, any threads, posts, and new memberships created in a time frame of approximately 60 days have been lost. Numerically, this is approximately 4,000 new memberships, 6,000 threads, 39,000 posts, and an unknown number of Private Messages. We apologize profusely and ask for your understanding. We are looking into the possibilty of restoring current user data, but it doesn't look promising.
Again, we thank you for your understanding, cooperation, and yes -- forgiveness -- as we work to rebuild what was lost. We hope to relaunch Monday afternoon, February 16th.
-------
I'd like an iPod forum
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Mac Elite
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They should do it now ipodlounge just lost all their forums in a major data corruption and wont be around for a while. With the iPod mini out on the 20th now more then ever do we need a iPod specific forum.
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MacBook Pro 15" i7 ~ Snow Leopard ~ iPhone 4 - 16Gb
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Originally posted by stevesnj:
They should do it now ipodlounge just lost all their forums in a major data corruption and wont be around for a while. With the iPod mini out on the 20th now more then ever do we need a iPod specific forum.
post something in the peripherals forum and you'll get whatever help you need.
-r.
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Mac Elite
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Originally posted by rjenkinson:
post something in the peripherals forum and you'll get whatever help you need.
-r.
I would rather see a specific forum for the iPod since the iPod seems to be more of a seperate entity than a periphial. It seems the majority want an iPod specific forum topic.
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MacBook Pro 15" i7 ~ Snow Leopard ~ iPhone 4 - 16Gb
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Dedicated MacNNer
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by rjenkinson:
it is acceptable and sensible because those forums already exist and because far more people have consumer and professional machines than people have ipods. the number of threads about powerbooks or imacs, for example, far outweighs the number of threads about ipods. thus, we don't need an ipod forum, just as we don't need an isight forum, an apple batteries forum, and so on.
From the front page of this site, 2/16/2004: Apple today sells almost as many iPods per quarter as it does Macs. It's quite possible that there are not as many iPod threads as other Apple products because the iPod does not have its own forum. In fact, iPod questions seemed to be scattered throughout the various hardware forums as well as the lounge. A dedicated forum can stimulate further discussion. Furthermore, have you glanced at the Classic or MacModification forums lately? The number of iPod threads far outnumber the activity in those forums.
second, how would creating an ipod forum help you more than the existing peripherals forum? convince me of this, since what you seem to be asking for is nothing more than breaking the peripherals forum in two and giving one half a name change.
Well, convince me exactly how this would inconvenience you in any way. It would make finding iPod answers that much easier (browsing in one forum on one page is easier than doing a search), and not only consolide technical support, but also stimulate further discussion. How many times have you found something novel to do with your powerbook or powermac based on a thread in its own forum? Since the iPod can be used in so many different ways, it would be very cool to learn in one place how various people use the iPod in their car, home stereo, while running, etc. Although this is possible with the current organization, this heirarchy does not promote specialized iPod discussion like the other hardware fourms. The full benefit or even potential drawbacks (e.g., too little discussion as you fear) honestly will not be known without a trial of a having an iPod forum.
finally, you are right to say that no one is asking for new forums for every peripheral under the sun. but where do you draw the line? if there were an ipod forum, you'd have a much more difficult time explaining why existing forums shouldn't be broken into more specific forums.
If you use the general rule that only standalone Apple hardware gets a specific forum (which appears to be current orgainzing principle anyway), the iPod would still be an exception (since it's not entirely standalone), but an entirely reasonable one because of its wide appeal and impact. At the same time, this would prevent proliferation of too many forums (e.g., separate iSight, Cinema Display,) or any other product (MS/Logitech Mouse since they're not made by Apple).
rjenkinson, at this point I certainly don't expect to convince you of anything since you seem pretty determined about your stance. I think the pro iPod forum camp has some strong and valid arguments, and although I disagree with your position, I am nonetheless enjoying the debate.
At the next revision of these forums, I vote for an iPod/iTunes forum OR an iPod/iPod mini forum.
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Excellent post. Why are the mods disagreeing here? Is it just out of Dogma? I really can't see any argument against it....
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