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Ratm · Oct 11, 2005, 01:36 PM

It's unbelievable.
http://www.thestreet.com/_mktwrm/tec.../10246594.html

"Through August, Apple's share of the U.S. retail market for computers, excluding online sales, grew to 6.6% from 4.3% in the same period last year, according to market researcher NPD Group."

turtle777 · Oct 11, 2005, 01:37 PM

-t

stevesnj · Oct 11, 2005, 01:38 PM

I think when Intel's name is advertised in conjuction with PowerMacs and PowerBooks that share will grow a large amount...time to buy stock it looks like.

PacHead · Oct 11, 2005, 01:51 PM

Apple must never be allowed to surpass the 10% mark. The majority of the average consumer public is clueless idiots who prefer to buy lousy, cheap PC machines with windoze installed. If Apple ever gains more than 10% of the market then they must be doing something very bad and either making their machines worse or cutting massive corners if they were to attract too many of those other people.

Ratm · Oct 11, 2005, 02:13 PM

PacHead WTF? How about you stop being such a xenophobe.

zwiebel_ · Oct 11, 2005, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by Ratm

PacHead WTF? How about you stop being such a xenophobe.

More good news tomorrow.

starman · Oct 11, 2005, 02:39 PM

I'd be ok with a respectable 15-20% - big enough to scare Bill, small enough to still be a niche.

Eriamjh · Oct 11, 2005, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by PacHead

If Apple ever gains more than 10% of the market then they must be doing something very bad and either making their machines worse or cutting massive corners if they were to attract too many of those other people.

So Apple is only good if it has sh*tty market share? Go away, please!

As for 6.6%, Holy

I thought 5% was going to be hard to get, but woo hoo!

10% here we come!

gururafiki · Oct 11, 2005, 02:57 PM

Is this 6.6% including cash registers? Because whoever figured the market share when it was 3% or less, was counting cash registers too.

olePigeon · Oct 11, 2005, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by gururafiki

Is this 6.6% including cash registers? Because whoever figured the market share when it was 3% or less, was counting cash registers too.

Yeah, those market share totals are weird. "Global PC sales" includes POS terminals, ATM machines, and cash registers. I don't know what the marketshare is for consumer desktops.

Salty · Oct 11, 2005, 03:21 PM

Really you should only be looking at Apple in the area that it competes in! That said though that stat was for retail sales only. So that means no Apple store online which is where a large portion of their comps are sold from. However if you go only retail that almost completely cuts out Dell. So the stats are a bit wonky.

Mastrap · Oct 11, 2005, 03:26 PM

Market share means nothing.
So I am buying a PC every two years because I my old Dull just bit the dust again. Meanwhile my Mac is four years and counting. Makes for a higher PC market share, but doesn't mean more people are actually using PCs.

Installed user base is where it's at.

jhogarty · Oct 11, 2005, 03:26 PM

Did anyone else catch this in that article?

Apple has scheduled a press event Wednesday where analysts expect CEO Steve Jobs to unveil a new, video-enabled iPod music player. The move would mark a significant evolution for the iPod, which has rapidly become one of Apple's most important products.

J.

Dork. · Oct 11, 2005, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by Salty

Really you should only be looking at Apple in the area that it competes in! That said though that stat was for retail sales only. So that means no Apple store online which is where a large portion of their comps are sold from. However if you go only retail that almost completely cuts out Dell. So the stats are a bit wonky.

It's a well-known fact that 89.7% of all statistics are made up.

However, it certaily seems like Apple is not only selling lots of iPods, but computers also. It looks like the iPod "halo" effect is trumping uncertainty over processor platforms.

Salty · Oct 11, 2005, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Dork.

It's a well-known fact that 89.7% of all statistics are made up.

However, it certaily seems like Apple is not only selling lots of iPods, but computers also. It looks like the iPod "halo" effect is trumping uncertainty over processor platforms.

Certainly I'm agreeing. Just if we ever see Apple super high on these sorts of stats you'll be seeing WAY more people with Macs out and about. Because generally these stats will include all kinds of computers in high school labs, POS machines (go figure POSes tend to run Windows haha) and others.

That said most of the guys I see at Best Buy tell me "yah Apple only has like 10% market share". To which I'm like.... uhh ok, well sure if it makes you think better of them sure but they don't. Ha.

That said, I realized recently that MOST people who buy computers really DON'T want to do what a Mac is designed to do. They just plain aren't interested. A guy recently bought an iMac from us, and brought in his aunt to buy a PC cause she wanted to use a scrap booking windows app. That's it. Talking to most of the other people that come in, they want a cheap piece of garbage that will browse the internet and play games.

So I would say that of the potential market we even have to reach, we have about a third of it at least. The people who REALLY want to do something with their computers, a large chunk of them are already running with a Mac. And in light of what I've seen I would guestimate a third are already running a Mac of some sort.

Eriamjh · Oct 11, 2005, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by gururafiki

Is this 6.6% including cash registers? Because whoever figured the market share when it was 3% or less, was counting cash registers too.

Consumers don't buy cash registers. We all know Apple's market share in business is in the dumpster, but don't poo-poo the 6.6% no matter how it is calculated. It's still the highest it has been in years!

Ratm · Oct 11, 2005, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by Salty

Really you should only be looking at Apple in the area that it competes in! That said though that stat was for retail sales only. So that means no Apple store online which is where a large portion of their comps are sold from. However if you go only retail that almost completely cuts out Dell. So the stats are a bit wonky.

Yea I was a bit sleepy when I posted this and noticed this little detail later. If you where to include online sales and and third party sellers, what do you think percentage total would be. Will Apple give us more information later on today?

gururafiki · Oct 11, 2005, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by Eriamjh

Consumers don't buy cash registers. We all know Apple's market share in business is in the dumpster, but don't poo-poo the 6.6% no matter how it is calculated. It's still the highest it has been in years!

I was not poo-pooing the 6.6%. I was just curious if that 6.6% counted cash registers (and like olePigeon pointed out), POS terminals and ATM machines as many market share stats usually do.

Nautical · Oct 11, 2005, 04:45 PM

Keep in mind that this is about U.S. PC retail market share only which doesn't include Dell, since they only sell their computers online. However it doesn't include the Apple Store either.

turtle777 · Oct 11, 2005, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by Nautical

Keep in mind that this is about U.S. PC retail market share only which doesn't include Dell, since they only sell their computers online. However it doesn't include the Apple Store either.

Are you sure about this ?

-t

PacHead · Oct 11, 2005, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by Ratm

PacHead WTF? How about you stop being such a xenophobe.

I just fear the day when Mac OS comes with every Dell machine. I don't just like the Mac OS but I also like the Apple hardware just as much. My friend's very expensive PC laptop has broken down countless times in the past 2 years, meanwhile my Mac laptop (and my other Macs) are still going strong after many years.

Nautical · Oct 11, 2005, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Are you sure about this ?

-t

Yes. Read the very title of this thread. Or the article in question. Dell has *zero* retail presence, ergo they are not included in the statistics. These figures are only about computers purchased in stores and although they *are* positive in themselves; they are nowhere near as positive as some here seems to believe.

turtle777 · Oct 11, 2005, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by Nautical

Yes. Read the very title of this thread. Or the article in question. Dell has *zero* retail presence, ergo they are not included in the statistics. These figures are only about computers purchased in stores and although they *are* positive in themselves; they are nowhere near as positive as some here seems to believe.

You are right about the article, that's what it says.

I still doubt why anyone would come up with statistics like that that are obviously skewed because the largest player (Dell) only sells online. This darn statistic doesn"t make sense then.

-t

Nautical · Oct 11, 2005, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

You are right about the article, that's what it says.

I still doubt why anyone would come up with statistics like that that are obviously skewed because the largest player (Dell) only sells online. This darn statistic doesn"t make sense then.

-t

Yes it does. Since it is statistics for *retail* market share. Nothing else.

turtle777 · Oct 11, 2005, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by Nautical

Yes. Read the very title of this thread. Or the article in question. Dell has *zero* retail presence, ergo they are not included in the statistics. These figures are only about computers purchased in stores and although they *are* positive in themselves; they are nowhere near as positive as some here seems to believe.

You are right about the article, that's what it says.

I don't get why anyone would come up with statistics like that that are obviously skewed because the largest player (Dell) only sells online. This darn statistic doesn't make sense then.

-t

legacyb4 · Oct 11, 2005, 06:29 PM

Despite the growth, AAPL still takes a healthy 10% hit to their share price...

Artful Dodger · Oct 11, 2005, 06:41 PM

What is the prevailing wisdom in this forum regarding AAPL. Is now a Good or Bad time to buy? I am thinking of buying some shares before the big announcement tomorrow. I would plan on holding on to them for at least 2 years. Stocks are not my forte so any advice is appeciated.

turtle777 · Oct 11, 2005, 06:46 PM

Wait. All new announcements are already priced in.

-t

turtle777 · Oct 11, 2005, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by Nautical

Yes it does. Since it is statistics for *retail* market share. Nothing else.

It's dumb.

They should call it *bricks and mortar* market share.
Why online sales NOT considered retail is beyond me. It is retail, just a DIFFERENT RETAIL channel !

-t

analogika · Oct 11, 2005, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by legacyb4

Despite the growth, AAPL still takes a healthy 10% hit to their share price...

Of course. It was always the same when Apple still used MacWorld Keynotes to introduce new hardware (US dep't of finances put a stop to that, as using those fixed dates amounted to stock manipulation).

People would have put orders on their stock for the day following the Keynote (or the quarterly results announcement) if they figured Apple would go through the roof. Since EVERYBODY and their asshole brother figures on this, EVERYBODY sells AAPL at the same time, which OF COURSE results in lower price.

I love it when this kind of stuff backfires so nicely - and so predictably, every time, for years...

Nautical · Oct 11, 2005, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

It's dumb.

They should call it *bricks and mortar* market share.
Why online sales NOT considered retail is beyond me. It is retail, just a DIFFERENT RETAIL channel !

-t

I won't argue semantics with you. I'm just trying to keep people's feet grounded on this matter.

Tesseract · Oct 11, 2005, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by analogika

(US dep't of finances put a stop to that, as using those fixed dates amounted to stock manipulation).

Really? I thought Apple did this of their own volition, since they saw the effect it was having on both sales and stock prices.

"Learn something new every day."

Rolling Bones · Oct 11, 2005, 07:40 PM

Is this 6.6% of sales or established base?

Last I heard it was hovering in the 2% range.

Nautical · Oct 11, 2005, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by Rolling Bones

Is this 6.6% of sales or established base?

Last I heard it was hovering in the 2% range.

Sales.

kcmac · Oct 11, 2005, 08:16 PM

Forget Dell in this equation will ya?

The percentage is based on sales excluding online sales. The number they compare it to was based on retail excluding online sales. They went from 4.5% to 6.6%. That is a significant increase.

Good lord.

analogika · Oct 11, 2005, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by Tesseract

Really? I thought Apple did this of their own volition, since they saw the effect it was having on both sales and stock prices.

"Learn something new every day."

AFAIK, they were slapped with a fine in 2004 that didn't really hurt, but with the clear indication that the next one WOULD hurt.

The Godfather · Oct 11, 2005, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by PacHead

Apple must never be allowed to surpass the 10% mark. The majority of the average consumer public is clueless idiots who prefer to buy lousy, cheap PC machines with windoze installed. If Apple ever gains more than 10% of the market then they must be doing something very bad and either making their machines worse or cutting massive corners if they were to attract too many of those other people.

So, you are satisfied the inmense gap in software supply. This is the main reason why Macs don't enter the professional (other than art) market. The small Mac marketshare causes developers to shy away from the platform.

PacHead · Oct 11, 2005, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by The Godfather

So, you are satisfied the inmense gap in software supply. This is the main reason why Macs don't enter the professional (other than art) market. The small Mac marketshare causes developers to shy away from the platform.

I guess I'm selfish in that regard because I do music and audio and Mac is superb in that area. Just thinking purely of my own needs (I know I'm being selfish again), I can't think of a single software program that I would like to use that is not currently on Mac. Maybe people in fields other than audio or perhaps video are missing certain software on the Mac, I wouldn't know about that.

Anyhow, won't we be able to play PC games when the Intel Macs come out ? That would be cool, though games are certainly not the main reason I use my Mac.

JoshuaZ · Oct 11, 2005, 10:10 PM

A larger maket share means more games for the Mac. More games for the Mac means more sales. More sales means more market share.

The Godfather · Oct 11, 2005, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by JoshuaZ

A larger maket share means more games for the Mac. More games for the Mac means more sales. More sales means more market share.

And more volume means more bang for my buck.

PacHead · Oct 11, 2005, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by JoshuaZ

A larger maket share means more games for the Mac. More games for the Mac means more sales. More sales means more market share.

And it won't make a difference if Mac video cards will always be double or triple the price of other video cards. And like I said, the market share won't matter if PC games will be able to run on the intel Macs. I don't think anybody knows that answer for sure. I've read a lot of speculation but in the end that's all it is - speculation.

JoshuaZ · Oct 11, 2005, 10:35 PM

Mmm... more bang for your buck... mmmm....

macaddict0001 · Oct 11, 2005, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by Artful Dodger

What is the prevailing wisdom in this forum regarding AAPL. Is now a Good or Bad time to buy? I am thinking of buying some shares before the big announcement tomorrow. I would plan on holding on to them for at least 2 years. Stocks are not my forte so any advice is appeciated.

if you want to make money on the market apple may not be the best company to do it with.

JoshuaZ · Oct 12, 2005, 01:11 AM

Originally Posted by PacHead

And it won't make a difference if Mac video cards will always be double or triple the price of other video cards. And like I said, the market share won't matter if PC games will be able to run on the intel Macs. I don't think anybody knows that answer for sure. I've read a lot of speculation but in the end that's all it is - speculation.

Now the video card prices are not Apple`s fault. When you can buy the EXACT same card for half the price for a PC over a Mac, and the only difference is that the Mac one is flashed for Mac useage, then its the manufacturers fault. Its just really stupid all around.

PacHead · Oct 12, 2005, 01:16 AM

Originally Posted by JoshuaZ

Now the video card prices are not Apple`s fault. When you can buy the EXACT same card for half the price for a PC over a Mac, and the only difference is that the Mac one is flashed for Mac useage, then its the manufacturers fault. Its just really stupid all around.

Oh, I know that, I wasn't saying that it was Apple's fault. I don't know why the exact same video card for Mac costs an arm and a leg. Maybe they're charging half for the hardware and half for a little Mac driver ?