[caseygittings]

I visited my local apple store today in towson commons and I was not impressed with the 12" book at all. They had it sitting next to a gigabook and the powerbook blew it away. The 12" is very cheap looking and the keys ruin it. They are plastic painted keys that are loose as can be. The resoloution on the screen is the most noticable difference. I could of sworn I was looking at my old g3 ibook. The computer is so small that it looks cheap and not worth what its price tag is. I am so glad I purchased the 15" gigabook. I will tell you what that little bugger was definately hot too. Everyone wants to say that it is not really hot. Who are you kidding I could of cooked an egg on that book. And They had three of them all of which had the same temp to them. Dont waste the money on it, and with no L3 cache. Apple is cutting costs folks. The titanium just looks so much more classy and sleek. The aliuminum is very plastic looking and simple. Cant wait to see a 17". Hopefully they can redeem themselves to me. I would definately reccomend to people to go look at one before buying one not just by pictures. I promise you will think the albook is the old powerbook and the tibook is the new powerbook upon appearance and build quality.

[torifile]

Wow, I guess beauty is truly in the eyes of the beholder. I couldn't disagree more. But to each his own.

[Mac Zealot]

That's just because you're a jealous gigabook owner.

Grow up, then come back.

[itai195]

Rationalization and self-delusion are powerful forces

I can see someone not liking it... but saying it looks/feels cheap? Excuse me?

[StiZeven]

Quite the contrary, after seeing the new PowerBook designs, it's the TiBook that seems dated and not as well made (I've owned two of them and am not knocking them in any way). The new 12" PowerBook is rock solid and perfectly aligned with one of the best keyboards I've ever seen or felt. There is nothing cheap at all about it. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and you may not dig the aluminum, but something seems very off here.

No offense, but it seems to me that your observations of the stunning new 12" PowerBook are jaded by your recent 15" TiBook purchase. As if you needed to say this or think that way in order to justify your purchase and conceal any evidence of buyers remorse. Seems to be a lot of that going around here, but in a more indirect way - not as blatant. I am sure you'll hate the 17" as well if it's not what you currently own or just purchased.

I am just expressing my opinion and feelings as you did yours.

[JustinD]

{Jealous??! This has NOTHING to do with jelly!!}

Wow, okay, where to begin...

"I visited my local apple store today in towson commons and I was not impressed with the 12" book at all. They had it sitting next to a gigabook and the powerbook blew it away."

...you DO know that that new aluminum 12" laptop IS a PowerBook, right?

"The resoloution on the screen is the most noticable difference. I could of sworn I was looking at my old g3 ibook."

You could HAVE sworn, even. Probably because it's pretty much the same screen at the same resolution.

"The computer is so small that it looks cheap and not worth what its price tag is."

By that logic, a 20 pound 3-foot square laptop that cost the same price would be the best deal ever. Small ALWAYS = money, but at least Apple priced it rightly, unlike Sony and many other companies that make small, full-featured computers and electronics.

"I am so glad I purchased the 15" gigabook."

Jealous you didn't wait for an aluminum enclosure?

"I will tell you what that little bugger was definately hot too. Everyone wants to say that it is not really hot. Who are you kidding I could of cooked an egg on that book. And They had three of them all of which had the same temp to them."

Really? Did you also know that 90% of Titanium owners complain that they've never felt a hotter piece of computing equipment?

"The titanium just looks so much more classy and sleek. The aliuminum is very plastic looking and simple."

I have to disagree - compared to the subtle "visual texture" of the aluminum, the Titanium looks bland and uninteresting.

"Cant wait to see a 17". Hopefully they can redeem themselves to me."

I'll save you a trip: it's aesthetically the SAME, and probably just as hot.

"I would definately reccomend to people to go look at one before buying one not just by pictures. I promise you will think the albook is the old powerbook and the tibook is the new powerbook upon appearance and build quality."

Just FYI, in case you haven't realized: Titanium is out. Have a look though these forums and you'll see people loving the computer, but hating everything else: flimsy screen, easliy warpable LCD, too hot, noisy, fickle drives, mild electric shock (!!!)... Frankly, it just sounds like you are realllly jealous and are trying to compensate for buying a computer whose design will be out in a month or so, when they release the ALUMINUM 15" PBook.

But when they do, I'm sure you'll have more wonderful jealousy-based commentary! Can't wait! Till then, take a breath and calm down. Why so angry? Push out the jive, bring in the love!

[CBoldman]

This is just his opinon. I havent seen the 12", but I can see his point. As far as him being jelous, cant a month old 15" Powerbook fetch more then enough on eBay to buy a new 12"?

[JustinD]

My bad, I didn't mean to rip on the guy, I was just offering counter-opinion. Sorry if I came on too strong...

I really do agree with others that this is SOOOO buyer's remorse... =)

[hardcat1970]

if this 12" powerbook has a dvi output (a must!!!) or firewire 800, battery swap during sleep function, or even ambient light that will make this an exceptional computer, but it's not yet....maybe it will by the end of the year. who knows?

[austinjackson]

Originally posted by StiZeven:
... one of the best keyboards I've ever seen or felt...

Are the keys really painted?

[iBorg]

While caseygittings was, perhaps, a little overenthusiastic in his dislike of the 12" G4, part of me enjoyed the break in the 3-week-long pepfest we've been overwhelmed with since its announcement. After all, most of us haven't even laid eyes upon this mini-book yet! All we have to judge are second-hand reviews and pictures on the web!

We'll all make our own judgments about the new powerbooks when we see/use them. But I think that we should all be allowed to make up our own minds about their value and attractiveness.

I love my Ti SD, but also hope that each successive new powerbook debut sets new standards of excellence (and "drool factor"), so that it's worth upgrading every couple of years (or sooner!)



iBorg

[Eug]

You could HAVE sworn, even. Probably because it's pretty much the same screen at the same resolution.

And that would be a disappointment, since the TiBook 15" screen is way better than the iBook 800 screen. I haven't seen the 12" AluBook screen in person though to say for sure it's the same screen as the iBook's.

Did you also know that 90% of Titanium owners complain that they've never felt a hotter piece of computing equipment?

Quite the contrary. My iBook 600 got much hotter on the left palmrest than anywhere on the top of my TiBook, which was annoying, but I got used to it. In fact, I wish my Ti would get hotter, so that the fan wouldn't come on as often. Reports are that the 12" AluBook is significantly hotter than the iBooks, so that would be pretty damn hot, but again, I haven't tried it myself yet.

I do like the idea of anodized aluminum and Airport Extreme though. Ironically, when the TiBooks first came out, I wondered why they didn't use anodized aluminum.

[dave_carroll]

I have owned an iBook and currently own a PB DVI 800. I liked the size of the iBook but I like the speed of the PB 800. Saw a 12" PB at an Apple Store today. I liked the size, build quality, screen...all good. Although I really don't understand why people now think Aluminum is THE greatest material to encase a laptop in...seems kind of silly to me. Anyway the deal-breaker for me was the heat to the left of the trackpad: too hot. I'd encourage folks to actually see one in person before spending the money. I'll wait for the next generation.

[seanyepez]

I really would have wanted my PowerBook to have come in aluminum. My PowerBook serves me well, but it feels very delicate. However, I would not have waited for either the 12- or 17-inch PowerBooks. The 12-inch PowerBook offers truly lackluster performance, and the screen is a bit constrained. The 17-inch PowerBook is simply too big. It won't even fit in Zero Halliburton's DZ5 case or my Targus Deluxe Backpack.

I think he has a right to strongly dislike the 12-inch PowerBook. Part of his opinion is driven by the fact that he just bought a 15-inch PowerBook, but his arguments are valid. I, too, hate the keyboard on the new PowerBook. It is the only part of the machine that feels cheap.

[BkueKanoodle]

Having finally got my greedy little hands on the new 12" inch today, I must say I too was little underwhelmed. Its cool, but perhaps because of all the hype on this board, not as dramatic as I was expecting, appearance wise. Its not much different design wise from the ibook. It did feel snappier them my 700 ibook.

Having said that, I'll probably still get one, because I can, and I like shiny things. (maybe I was a squirrel in a former life)

[caseygittings]

I am not trying to bash the machine. If you dont have a powerbook already then get it. But that machine is no where even close to the capability of a gigabook. They are nice machines just not as nice as the ti. What is better about a lower res. smaller screen, no L3 cache, hotter computer. Money is not an issue for me in this game. I went to look at it and maybe purchase it. Everyone in the store seem to be swarming around the tibooks like usual ignoring the 12". Maybe this is because they arent aware that it is a new product but it shows that people are attracted to the ti because of how well its appearance is. I over heard anothe guy while I was in there say "this is not what I expected at all", followed by the mac employee quoting i would definately wait on the 17" or get the 15" ti. And this guy is not an idiot like most people assume with the store employees are he is exposed to them all day and he even favored the ti. I think once they are readily available and people can compare side by side we will be seeing more threads similar to this. I am just giving some info for current purchasers that maybe expecting more than than they should.

[x user]

12" seemed pretty impressive to me. I only got to use a prototype so far, but they said they'll be getting the production models on display soon.

[icruise]

It's hard to believe we are talking about the same computer here...

[007]

If its truly unimpressive (I was impressed), which would you (or anyone) choose:

a 15.1" PB/ 512MB/40/combo/airport/refurb w/ free applecare

or

a 12.1" PB/ 640MB /60/combo/APX/brand new

The 15 costs $200 more than the souped up 12....

Thanks....

[PeterKG]

I really don't understand what point you are trying to make.

Why are you even comparing a 15" 1GHz Ti Book
to the 12" Powerbook? They are not meant to be in any way similar. The 1GHz is $1000.00 more in price. Everything about what is inside is a more powerful computer. It has it's merits for the people who desire that product.

People like me who have bought the 12" Powerbook find it perfectly suitable for our needs. I like the 12" screen. I don't want or need a portable with a 15" screen. I have a desktop for that. I wanted something durable, portable, G4, and more powerful then an iBook.

Your arguement is like saying, don't buy an iBook because my Ti is better. Each one of these models fill the needs of each buyer. You like yours. I like mine. iBook owners like theirs, and so on. I think they are all great laptops.

When the 15" aluminum models come out I will think they are great and the buyer who doesn't need a 17" or a 12" will flock to it. GREAT! Good for everyone.

But don't knock down the 12" because you have a 15". That is really immature. Be happy for all Mac users to find the machine they desire.

[cgreer00]

If I HAD to choose between the 12" and the TiBook, I would take the TiBook. Luckily, my student loan money is still untapped and I am waiting for the 15" AlBook. The 12" is great for a frequent traveler, but I don't think it will meet the needs of serious graphics and video guys. The 15" and 17" should fill those spots nicely. If the 15" wasn't going to be Al, I would probably get the TiBook, even though I might scrounge the money for the 17". The 15" is the sweet spot, the perfect blend, and oh do I want one!

[Superchicken]

Store employies would be told to either hype the 17 inch EXPENCIVE computer... or get rid of old stock.

I think your reveiw was a little biased. Yes a 15.2 inch screen is nicer than a 12 inch screen... and yes it should be cheaper than a TiBook... it IS CHEAPER it's 1700 and a TiBook is... MORE.
It has no L3 cache because yes apple is not gona jack up the price and the heat is a problem cause it's got a freakin G4 in there!
If you didn't think it'd be warm you were a fool. If you thought that it would be faster than a machine with a faster processor you were even dumber, and if you expected the case to shimmer like opals and yet still remain subtle... you were well... you don't deserve to own one.

The 12 inch is for people who need power but not a gygundo amount... rarely will anyone who needs a 12 inch laptop have CAD and 3D rendering programs that they need to work with on their 12 inch screens.
It's supposed to be slightly under powered in comparision that's it's job it's a light weight of the heavey weights, it's smaller than an iBook, or about the same size, it's rough, it can take life in a back pack, AND it's powerful enough to not lag even when new software's released.

You're right it's not the perfect laptop for the power user. It's not supposed to be. It's supposed to be a small unit for those of us who don't want a 15.2 inch screen when we go to college and carry it around in our bags, and have it open on small tables and stuff.

So please for goodness sake recognize that PEOPLE ARE DIFFERENT, and while this may not be the computer for you, you don't have to trash it for other people. PERSONALLY I don't mind a 1024/768 pixel screen, esspecially with the ability for monitor spanning.

Call me crazy but I acctually would rather have this than your giga book... why? Cause this suites ME better, and you are not ME, you don't have my needs, and there are other people with the same needs as me, there are also people with the same needs as you. Hence why there are two different products... acctually 3 different products in one product line. I suppose you're also gona complain about the iBook being not as fast or big as your Ti... they're different, they're like people, they're not all the same, they don't all have the same good points, and uhh...
Shoot can I rant at you some more for being dumb?
Probably... but I'm not gona... but your post was dumb. Lots of people have said they liked it, you can say you don't like it without trying to discredit other people.
Blah this post reminds me of something I'd hear from a compaq user.

[caseygittings]

I think this topic is going more and more as a comparison between the 12"and the ti 15". I didnt mean this originally. The point was that the 12" being a new product I would expect something more not less that what is already available. They already had the ibook. Why didnt they just paint an ibook silver thats basically what they did. There are a few new items that are not even of use yet. By the time firewire 800 is useable the 12" will be a low model in the product line. I agree that the size is great. I am an industrial designer and spend day by day designing and reviewing products and have always praised the apple products. Just not this one. Dont get mad at me and say my post is dumb. I believe this is a post that alot of apple enthusiats would like to hear about. I do understand that people have different needs and wants that is not the issue or my point. The issue is that they released a new product that I do not believe is up to par with there other products. Think of the advance from the pismo to the powerbook. Thats a leap. I just dont feel this is such a step forward hopefully this will improve as the months go on. Titanium in my "opinion" is also a better material for looks and durability. Titanium is alot more expensive then aluminum. Thats one of the reasons they are steering away from it. Of course they are going to make it sound better. If they didnt you wouldnt like it. They could make up some technical name for a plastic powerbook casing and people that have money in there pocket wanting the newest model would drool over it and try as hard as they can to act like it is such an improvment over a previous model.javascript:smilie('')

[icruise]

Originally posted by seanyepez:

I think he has a right to strongly dislike the 12-inch PowerBook.

Of course he has a right to dislike it, just as I have a right to dislike the Tibooks. But his attitude is not "I don't care for the new powerbooks" it's "The new powerbooks suck and look cheap and anyone who buys one is a fool."

I, too, hate the keyboard on the new PowerBook. It is the only part of the machine that feels cheap.

This part I really don't understand. I guess keyboards are a pretty subjective and personal thing, but to me the keyboard on the 12" seems so much better than either the Tibook or (especially) the ibook keyboards that I have trouble understanding this position. The older keyboards had less key travel, less comfortably shaped keys and tended to bounce and rattle due to the fact that they were removable.

What exactly makes the new ones seem cheap? Surely you are not making this decision based solely on color?

[caseygittings]

I dont know about anyone elses keys on there ti book but place a finger on a key of choice on your powerbook and move your finger in circles on the key. My key stays almost completely stil and makes no noise, its as if they only want to move downward. The 12" keys were very movable in all directions and noisy(very teatery).

[macgeekjay]

I tried to stay as quiet as I could....

I work at an Apple Store and am quite amazed at this post. The 12" Al is, by far, the hottest computer we have at the store. There are two stores in my area and both stores sell out before days end. I haven't heard one bad thing about it. If someone doesn't but the 12" it's becuase they are waiting for the 15" to be upgraded to the Al because it's SO MUCH more durable then Ti. Just try picking up either one with one hand and you'll see what I'm talking about.

And the keyboard? BY FAR the best keyboard in ANY laptop. Period. The Titanium Books seem cheap by comparison. They are still a solid value and, like others have said here, the 12" and the 15" are both filling their own respected niches- filling different needs.

You can have your own oppinion, but.... wow.... I'm just floored. The atmosphere at our Apple Stores is TOTALLY different then yours. Everyone is all over the 12"....

[John123]

You guys are ripping pretty hard on this dude.

Maybe he has buyers' remorse....

Or maybe he has a different opinion.

There are still a LOT of Pismo users out there who swear by their machines and still wouldn't touch a PowerBook G4 of either variety.

This is not a perfect upgrade. At the very least, we know that for those of us who are OS 9 users, we're on the outs with any new PowerBook models.

FireWire800 is, for now, a waste...BlueTooth is useless really if you don't have a BT-compatible cell phone (and even then you can get the USB adapter).

Airport Extreme is the most redeeming feature, I suppose, but using a non-Apple Base Station and/or an external antenna is one option to solve reception problems.

So it all comes down to preferences. I frankly think it's great that the options are there, and people continue to buy TiBooks, so I would speculate that 15" aluminum PowerBooks may be further off in the distance than a lot of folks are hoping.

[ASIMO]

Originally posted by macgeekjay:
...The 12" Al is, by far, the hottest computer we have at the store...

You *may* want to rephrase that bit, man. Unless, of course, you meant to be a wise ass. Figuratively speaking, of course.

[LosJackal]

I just saw and played with the 12" for the first time today. I own a Pismo, have a 17" on order, and my wife has an 800 TiBook.

Overall impression is good. Just admit it's a G4 iBook for all intents and purposes, rather than a small 17". You're going to pay $500 more than a G3 iBook for the benefits of AltiVec and monitor spanning. I'll bet iLife on this will be markedly more usable (ripping MP3s, exporting Quicktime, manipulating iPhoto). Plus it's your only choice for burning DVDs in the 12" form factor if you so choose.

I popped off a key and examined it. It appears to be plastic, just like my Pismo keys, and snap on and off the same way. The letter is translucent, since it's probably the same keys and keyboard as the 17" with the backlighting. So I don't know how they make it look silvery, but it doesn't look particularly bad or good IMHO. Personally, I really dislike the black keyboard of the TiBook. The feel of the keyboard on the 12" was solid and rather quiet, compared to the clickety-clack of my Pismo and the really cheap feeling keyboard of the iBook.

Yes, the left palmrest was noticably hotter than the right. But, if this were my PowerBook, I'd probably have it on a stand if it were sitting idle for a long period of time to promote cooling. If I were using it on my lap, I'd probably be sleeping and waking it frequently enough so that it might not get hot in the first place. I will hope the 17" has better cooling design, but even if it's identical, I don't think it will trouble me. The bottom of the TiBooks (up until November) get MUCH hotter than this palmrest. The November TiBooks (with the new PowerBook font logo) solved some of the heat problem somehow, and was the only TiBook I considered buying.

You shouldn't compare the 12" AlBook to the 15" TiBook; the 15" is in theory an animal that costs at least $500 more. The paint peeling, heat, and the poor Airport antennas were the main reasons I never gave up my Pismo for a TiBook. I would certainly wait for the Aluminum 15" (if I weren't already getting a 17"), rather than purchase a November TiBook.

[TheIceMan]

Originally posted by caseygittings:
I am not trying to bash the machine. If you dont have a powerbook already then get it. But that machine is no where even close to the capability of a gigabook. They are nice machines just not as nice as the ti. What is better about a lower res. smaller screen, no L3 cache, hotter computer... I think once they are readily available and people can compare side by side we will be seeing more threads similar to this. I am just giving some info for current purchasers that maybe expecting more than than they should.

As someone who saw and played with the 12", I would have to agree with you. Again, like you said...this is just my OPINION. People seem so upset when you express something contrary to what they believe is so great.

Like so many others, I too went to look at the 12" PB with excitement. I must say that what impressed me was how small it was (which I know that's by design and that's what people love about it). But maybe I'm just so use to my 15" PowerBook's screen, because I thought the 12" screen was too small for my taste.

While I didn't think the aluminum looked cheap or that the keys were flimsy, the left palm rest did get VERY VERY WARM, enough to not want to keep your wrist or hand on it for any long periods of time (I guess others would say this is HOT).

Again, perhaps it was the hype from this forum or hype I put on myself, but like you, I was not very impressed. Again, for others the 12" may be perfect, so take my post for what it's worth. As with everything in life, some people will like some things, while others would want or expect more. Just personal preference that's all.

[MrBenn]

Im getting a new computer soon, a 12" Powerbook. Strangely, I don't feel the urge to say "my computers better than yours, so there!"

Do you feel I still have the somthing to offer this forum? Or would you all prefer it if I kept my stupid 'live, and let live' attitude to myself?

[icruise]

Originally posted by TheIceMan:
As with everything in life, some people will like some things, while others would want or expect more. Just personal preference that's all.

I thought you had some good points -- this is clearly a matter of personal preference. But it sounds here as if you are saying that those who like the 12" aren't as discriminating as those who might "expect more". You are accepting the idea that the 12" is inferior, and further you are implying that those who like it don't have the sense to know any better.

[icruise]

By the way, I hope I didn't sound as if I was terribly offended or anything -- actually I find it very interesting to see how people can react so differently to the same thing (I'm assuming that there wasn't actually anything wrong with the machines that caseygittings saw).

Of course people have different preferences, but those tendencies can be amplified by a situation like this -- those who like or have already ordered the 12" feel the need to defend their choice -- after all if it is as inferior as the poster said, then only a total moron would like it or buy it. My own motives in defending the machine largely fit into this category.

Those who already own another computer may have a natural urge to denigrate the new model -- after all, if the new ones aren't so great after all, then they don't have to feel bad about theirs.

Not everyone fits into these categories, certainly, but a lot of people do.

Anyway, I think the simplest thing is to just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

[jia_zhuang]

Just wondering if anyone here actually got a PB12 in their hands??? Cos I do! And its cooooollll. I say the overall response it MUCH MORE solid than the ibook, and deserve the powerbook name. Sure the screen is not as big as the 15 or the 17, DUrrrrr anyone could have told you that. But for the 12inch I get its perfect for its size, clear and bright enough to do what I want to on a 12inch even run FCP3! I've owned the original G4 500 PB and the 1Ghz SD model, now I am on the 12inch, and in a few weeks time I will have the 17 too. The 12inch is solid, the shell is strong, and the system is fast, built quality is as you would expext from apple, and the keyboard I'm typing on is great, better than the Tibook SD. Can't wait to see the backlighting on my 17inch. And to those who are sad enough to write a whole freaking essay on how they dislike the new Al powerbooks, your all very sad idiots! Bye Bye!

[kcmac]

I saw caseys post last night and didn't respond because I thought he was trolling. After reading a couple of his replies to explain himself, I realize he did not think about how harsh some of his original statement was.

The beauty of the new lineup (when the 15" gets aluminum) is that each of the three cater to different groups of people. And like any good lineup, leaves you hungry for some of the traits of each after you make your own personal decision.

There will be heated discussions from time to time as certain camps align themselves. These are natural and fun for the forums.

I chose the 12" based on my personal needs. I was the user of an iceBook from the day they came out. I can easily say that I like everything about the new PB over the icebook. Finish, keyboard and size especially. Superdrive. Extra speaker. Etc.

I look at the 15", like I always have and would love to have that screen. But it overall doesn't work.....for me.

So do I think the 15" buyers are stupid? Do I think anyone that owns or wants an icebook is blind to what I see as the advantages to the PB? Do I think either machine is inferior because of my decision to buy another?

Of course not. Different strokes for different folks. I am thrilled that Apple is giving us the options.

[cgreer00]

one thing that scares me about the entire AL line (since I might be buying one soon) is that already, 2 different people have had the trackpad button get stuck under the frame of the machine, so it won't POP up. Since not many people have their 12" AlBooks yet, this could be a problem, because a relatively high percentage of 12" owners have had the trackpad glitch. hopefully this is not going to be a problem across the line.

[issa]

Well said, kcmac.

Different machines with different feature sets that are aimed at different users who have different needs and different reasons for selecting the axe of their preference. And, they all run the Mac OS well.

Think Different!

[Eug]

Different machines with different feature sets that are aimed at different users who have different needs and different reasons for selecting the axe of their preference.

True, but I will preface this post with the statement that I'm not a pro multimedia person, just somebody dabbling in home movie type stuff:

I think I may have to upgrade my TiBook to 1 GB RAM. After playing with some video a bit, I've fully realized that even 768 MB RAM isn't enough. I wish I had 2 GB. 640 MB on the 12" AluBook would be rather limiting. Plus, I find even 1 GHz is slow. An 867 with no L3 would be even slower obviously.

If were to buy new back on Jan. 7, I might have just ordered the 12" sight unseen, because it would have been a major upgrade to my iBook 600. I also like the idea of aluminum, and I love the small form factor.

However, knowing what I know now with my TiBook and video, I probably would have just bought the TiBook anyways, or else just waited for the 15.4" AluBook. The 12" has too many compromises for the SuperDrive crowd.

The 12" AluBook looks like a nice machine otherwise though.

[urrl5201]

Just my opinion; nothing will make me buy a Ti ever again. I have had two paint flakers and enough is enough. My 667 DVI came back from Apple a second time and the left hinge was still being scraped as I opened the lid. I sent it back for the third time yesterday. And no, in my opinion they did not improve the paint formula. I notice the corners of the non metallic bezel were perfect after they replaced it the first time, now that it came back the second time the corners look already worn and shiney. I can't wait till the new books make the Ti obsolete. Functionally the latest greatest 1 Ghz is probably a great laptop but no one will ever convince me to go back to titanium or that the new aluminum finish looks ugly; the new finish is all that I have expected and more. I don't know why they didn't put more power options into the 12"; I might well have payed for one. The keyboard looks FANTASTIC also, and not painted or cheap like some say. To me that's just propaganda and I don't care why someone would try to spread it. The 12" felt only warm to me even after running a DVD for about 20 minutes. We cry to Apple for more choices and when Apple finally listens to the paint flaking complaints we moan, NITPICK and groan even more about their new aluminum choices. My only complaint is WHAT TOOK THEM SO LONG? Hurry up Apple; I want my 15" Aluminum now.

[Jean-Loup]

Last week I went out to buy a 12" PowerBook after having sold my Ti 550. I find the 12"ers are really nice laptops and that the portability factor is fantastic for a true road warrior. BUT I decided to get a Ti 800 instead for a few reasons: 1) I really want a small desktop. 2) this is my main machine and I wanted the most performance for my $. 3) I use a 19" CRT screen next to my Ti almost all the time and being able to closely match the res on both screens makes the experience more pleasurable for me. 4) Price was also an issue. I got this Ti 800 for the same price as the base config 12" and it's new with full warranty. 5) The Ti had more expansion options. 6) AP extreem wasn't a big issue since I don't trasfer over networks but mainly use the internet. and 7) If anything goes wrong with this model, I'll get a replacement in the form of a 15" Aibook free from Apple

I wasn't worried about the durability of the finish since I had my Ti 550 for a year and it never even got a scratch ( same as with the icebooks I've owned)

So all in all, FOR ME, the Ti 800 was a much better bean return than the 12" and that is why I bought it and would recommend this purchase to anyone in my position. That being said, if I really was on the road alot the 12" would be my ONLY desire. So the needs off each particular laptop user will varry and the fact that there are several different models only means that we all get served better for our particular needs. This is a good thing. Lastly, the fact that beauty is in the eye of the beholder should never be under estimated. Some will surely think that the new models are ugly; just as others will find the ti's ugly or the pismos ad nauseum... That's ok by me and I don't feel that can be argued either way...cause no one is totally right in the feild of asthetics.

I guess I wrote this really long post and now that I read it I realise I'm really not saying anything new...but I'm too lazy to delete it I hope it's enjoyable anyway.

Wolf

[agentmouthwash]

he's just jealous.
I myself and waiting for a new 15" because that is the size that suits my needs the most, but I did see the new 12" at the Long Island Apple store and it's quite Amazing.
It doesn't look cheap at all.

[iBorg]

Hmmmmm ...... seems like some of you are being a bit harsh on caseygittings here!

I didn't see anything in his posts where he accused 12" PB buyers of being "dumb" or "fools," he justs stated his dissatisfaction with the product, his preference for the 15" TiBook, and advised potential buyers to examine the product for themselves before ordering one.

Certainly, his view may be biased towards the TiBook which he recently purchased, much as others posting here exhibit bias toward the AlBooks, having just ordered these! No one wants to think they've "been had."

As posted earlier, it's been a little thought-provoking to see even a brief departure from the "lovefest" threads about this new product that most of us haven't even seen in person yet!

Having not been able to examine a 12" AlBook yet, my biggest concerns have been:
1. Too slow - give us a 1 GHz processor! Even that is marginal, given the 1.42 GHz desktops' dualies now! Maybe the form-factor is too small to allow adequate cooling of a 1 GHz.
2. No L3 cache - c'mon, how much could this have taken to include!
3. Give us a lighted keyboard - seems like another intentionally deleted item to push buyers toward the 17".
4. No backup battery = no "changing on the fly."
5. Graphics chip too slow/limited.

I guess that this 'book is sufficient for those who would otherwise buy an iBook and don't need more power/speed - the G4 is certainly a plus for AltiVec apps, and the option of a superdrive is nice. A reasonable product for frequent-travelers, and for students.



iBorg

[TheIceMan]

Originally posted by Icruise:
I thought you had some good points -- this is clearly a matter of personal preference. But it sounds here as if you are saying that those who like the 12" aren't as discriminating as those who might "expect more". You are accepting the idea that the 12" is inferior, and further you are implying that those who like it don't have the sense to know any better.

lcruise
I apologize if my post was not clearly explained. My intention was to state that it's about each person's choice. That's all.

[TheIceMan]

iBorg
Thank you. Man, I said I agreed with caseygittings and suddenly feel an onslaught of attacks. Goodness people. AGAIN, no one is accusing or implying that anyone is dumb or a fool for choosing this or that. Like caseygittings, I too, am only stating my opinion.

[Graymalkin]

The 12" Powerbook in my ever so humble opinion isn't designed for the same people that the TiBooks and the 17" AlBooks are designed for. The 12" is for people who clamored for a G4 iBook. It is great like iBorg said for anyone who needs to move it around a lot. I was carrying it around in my daypack last night and it was excellent. My Lombard barely fit in the thing and when it was stuffed into it managed to weigh it down quite a bit. My 12" I barely noticed.

Fitting an L3 cache into this would have been no mean feat, the insides of these is crowded enough, you can have either an L3 cache or a graphics chip. Although I was concerned before about it, the video chip they did stick in the 12" is pretty darned nice. I have not yet been disappointed with its performance. The small screen is beautiful and I have yet to find a problem with it, sure it's nice to have a lot of real estate but at 1024x768 you're not exactly being robbed of usable real estate on the screen.

For all intents and purposes these things are comparable to the 867 SP Quicksilvers which is pretty impressive for such a small package.

Like I said though, this is a system designed for people who need a lot of mobile umph. They are the link between the iBook and the higher level Powerbooks, you get enough power to be faster than the iBooks but not so much screen dimension and speed that you're going to take away from the TiBook's market. They're excessively mobile, a lighted keyboard or some other excess gadgetry would only serve to make it less mobile.

If you're a video or audio pro and need a lot of mobile umph grab a TiBook or 17" AlBook, the 12" is going to disappoint you I think. If you're a student or just someone who takes their laptop everywhere and back the 12" is a pretty ideal machine. I think it would be as comfortable at the library or a LAN party as it would be in a mobile or home office.

[Eug]

Originally posted by iBorg:
Having not been able to examine a 12" AlBook yet, my biggest concerns have been:
1. Too slow - give us a 1 GHz processor! Even that is marginal, given the 1.42 GHz desktops' dualies now! Maybe the form-factor is too small to allow adequate cooling of a 1 GHz.
2. No L3 cache - c'mon, how much could this have taken to include!
3. Give us a lighted keyboard - seems like another intentionally deleted item to push buyers toward the 17".
4. No backup battery = no "changing on the fly."
5. Graphics chip too slow/limited.

Yeah, the 12" is a little limited for me, but here are my 2 cents regarding your comments.

1) I agree and I mentioned it above, but actually it per se is not that huge of a deal to me. And 1 GHz would have probably meant cooling issues I'm guessing. But it's the combo of a slower CPU AND a lack of L3 that bugs me. See below.
2) This is concerning. It seems the lack of L3 means a fairly significant performance drop. I believe they left it out not because of space contraints, but for cost reasons primarily and also to differentiate it from the 867 TiBook.
3) The lack of a lighted keyboard makes a lot of sense to me. I think it's perfectly reasonable to leave it out.
4) Personally I think the battery issue is a very minor issue.
5) I can accept a slower graphics chip as long as Quartz Extreme isn't affected too much by it.

[Daniel Bayer]

Well now! Isn't this "Juvee" of you all.

(1) 12 is out of the question for all the work that I do and all the limits it has.

(2) 17 is nice but is really no faster than my current 1GHZ. I would lose over a grand trying to sell my one month old ti to upgrade as well.

(3) Niether of what the Apple store pimp refers to as "hot" store items has really proved itself yet. How the hell does he know that they are built far better than a ti? Time will tell you that little retail churn.

(4) I would HOPE that they would be built better, the ti is delicate, but it is not "Dated" or crap. If the new books were not out yet, they would still wow you like they do most of the people who see me using mine in public places. It does bother me that they have introduced what is basically a "New" Powerbook...is our old ti design that flawwed?
They didn't do this with the G3.

(5) Sorry Mr. William Gates (urrl5201) Your PBG4 experience was indeed cosmetically problematic......maybe it was your "East LA style" tape job that jinxed your paint karma..:-)

(6) ......you are all judging the "Powerbooks" by their cover. Only after a few months will they prove themselves.

The only thing I am hacked about is Apple's "Montezuma's Revenge" style product release cycle as of late.

The 1ghz ti-book is a great machine but in my opinion was released in November to make the Christmas season even "Whiter" for some shareholders.

...Macgeekjay...the atmosphere in your EMPLOYERS stores is totally different because you are PAID to pump up and pimp out new products.......

Retail=YEEEE-UCK!

[Charles Bouldin]

Originally posted by seanyepez:
I really would have wanted my PowerBook to have come in aluminum. My PowerBook serves me well, but it feels very delicate. However, I would not have waited for either the 12- or 17-inch PowerBooks. The 12-inch PowerBook offers truly lackluster performance, and the screen is a bit constrained. The 17-inch PowerBook is simply too big. It won't even fit in Zero Halliburton's DZ5 case or my Targus Deluxe Backpack.

I think he has a right to strongly dislike the 12-inch PowerBook. Part of his opinion is driven by the fact that he just bought a 15-inch PowerBook, but his arguments are valid. I, too, hate the keyboard on the new PowerBook. It is the only part of the machine that feels cheap.

I haven't seen either of the new PB's in person, but I agree with the sentiments that the 12" is too small for me (my daughter has a 12" ibook and my 48 year old eyes really squint at that screen) while the 17" is just too big to lug around. Now, if there is a 15" Alubook, that might be the perfect Goldilocks "just right" machine. All the advantages of the 15" Tibook and none of the disadvantages (fan, scratching paint, etc).

[craigthomas]

I'll start by saying that I have the TiSD. Bought it from an Apple employee before the announcement of the new Aibooks. I've ownd 5 PowerBooks (3 Ti's) and have/would easily sell on eBay to upgrade to the better machine. I know it may be shallow, but I like having the newest and greatest. I have seen and played with the AiBooks at Macworld and these PowerBooks did not impress me. No urge to go to eBay this time. I really don't think caseygittings is jealous, he's probably, like me, just not floored by the new books. And they're not targeted to his needs - like they are not targeted to mine. The 12" is out of the question for me without more ram, L3, DVI. Those items put it into a category that's not quite enough for what I need. The only + on the 17" is the screen size, but that's what fails it for me too. It's too big FOR ME. My TiBook is my daily work computer and it's connected to a 22" display. To sum up, the 12", 15", and 17" have their potential owners based on features required. But, I will say that my 1st impression of the build of the new AiBooks was not as refined as the TiBooks. eBay won't see my TiSD till the processors get a significant bump, faster HDs, and 1.5 or 2 gigs of ram (and hopefully a 15" screen).

[mrtew]

I think the 12 AluBook is very cute and great for those that can take the small screen, but I have to agree that the case looked very cheap to me. The Ti has such a precise perfect look and feel to it that I find totally missing in the new design. The keys looks like someone spraypainted them silver in the back yard, and the aluminum looks like it has a flat clearcoat on it. I guess I was expecting a lusterous brushed aluminum look not just flat and stamped looking. And the part that really bugs me is the grey plastic lip that runs around the base and the screen that doesn't really meet up with the aluminum right. Also when closed there is a big gap beween the screen and the base that looks nothing like the tight fitting Ti. Please disgregard my opinion if you think my recent TiGz purchase invalidates any aesthetic comments I might make, but normally I'm the type that wants the latest and greatest, and I don't have that feeling about the new PowerBooks.