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Japanese - Mac OS X
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VEGAN
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Apr 4, 2004, 07:33 AM
 
I'm planning to buy a new Mac in Japan and I'm slightly worried.
The Mac OS X that is included is just in Japanese? Or is it like any of the international versions that I can choose the language for my OS system, say, in English?

"Mac OS X- Japanese" means that the manuals are in Japanese, right?
The OS can be set to English? Correct?

Thanks
     
Developer
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Apr 4, 2004, 07:38 AM
 
The manual is in Japanese. The Mac OS is exactly the same (i. e. multilingual).
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VEGAN  (op)
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Apr 4, 2004, 07:55 AM
 
Originally posted by Developer:
The manual is in Japanese. The Mac OS is exactly the same (i. e. multilingual).
Thanks
     
Cipher13
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Apr 4, 2004, 09:23 AM
 
Isn't the keyboard Japanese?
     
rjenkinson
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Apr 4, 2004, 09:38 AM
 


yes and no. all of the alphabetic keys are in the same position, but some of the symbols are in different locations. shift-2, for example, is used for double quotes while the @ symbol is found to the right of the P key.

-r.
     
VEGAN  (op)
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Apr 4, 2004, 09:55 AM
 
Originally posted by Cipher13:
Isn't the keyboard Japanese?
Yes and no [like the post said above].

If you buy an iBook from Apple site you have an option: Japanese keyboard/US keyboard
That's not a problem

I personally would like Japanese keyboard... I think... since I've trying to master Japanese... but then again...
     
David Lee
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Apr 4, 2004, 11:45 AM
 
Just so you do not get confused further, let's note that the Japanese keyboards (typing on one now) are set up so you can use the hiragana symbols to type, for example a "ha" hiragana with one keystoke, or you can use romaji (same as on an English keyboard) to use two (2) key stokes an "h" and an "a". Most people use this system so it is quite OK to use an English keyboard with no hiragana symbols on it while running a Japanese capable OS. These keyboards (available in Japan as bluetooth or optional iBook G4 keyboards, maybe on the powerbooks as well, but I do not know, have the same layout as seen in the States, to write in Japanese. Some people swear by English keyboards, and others like me, have adapted and would rather stay with that system (other folks in the office for instance do not have English keyboards) rather than encounter a mixed keyboard environment.
In any case, buying a Mac in Japan is almost the same as in the states, except of course for the flucuating dollar/yen rate. However, mastering the language requires a lot of effort and, in my opinion, living in Japan for at least a year or two (bare minimum). No keyboard can help with that process, so you can ignore that aspect.
     
wataru
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Apr 4, 2004, 04:55 PM
 
You can type Japanese just fine without a Japanese keyboard. In fact, I hate Japanese keyboards with a passion (some keys are oddly shaped and/or placed; many symbols like ' and " are in very inconvenient places). I highly recommend that you stick to the English keyboard if you plan on typing English even a little. The small conveniences of the Japanese keyboard for typing Japanese are far outweighed by the inconveniences it creates in typing English.
     
Chuckit
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Apr 4, 2004, 09:08 PM
 
Originally posted by wataru:
You can type Japanese just fine without a Japanese keyboard. In fact, I hate Japanese keyboards with a passion (some keys are oddly shaped and/or placed; many symbols like ' and " are in very inconvenient places). I highly recommend that you stick to the English keyboard if you plan on typing English even a little. The small conveniences of the Japanese keyboard for typing Japanese are far outweighed by the inconveniences it creates in typing English.
I'd just like to say that I totally agree with Wataru here. Typing English on a Japanese keyboard, in my experience, is way more maddening than typing Japanese on an English keyboard.
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pbjudge
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Apr 4, 2004, 11:30 PM
 
Originally posted by Chuckit:
I'd just like to say that I totally agree with Wataru here. Typing English on a Japanese keyboard, in my experience, is way more maddening than typing Japanese on an English keyboard.

Just a further note of agreement. Most everyone I know prefers to use the kotaeri system (typing japanese based on the romanized lettering, e.g. ha, boku, ashita ) and not to use the kana symbols on the Japanese keyboard. In fact many Japanese I know, have ordered the US keyboard because the layout of some of the keys is more functional.

I live in Japan and ordered my PB from Apple Japan. I got the US style keyboard. I got Panther here. As someone mentioned earlier, the only difference is in the manuals and in the signup at the beginning after the first installation.

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legacyb4
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Apr 5, 2004, 01:29 AM
 
Dunno, I'd have to disagree. After using Japanese-style keyboard layout for years, it's much faster using the layout, especially for any Internet stuff (the "@" key is right under your right pinky), command line stuff (the colon, semicolon are all single key types), and the underscore is also a single key.

Things that do drive me nuts are the shortened space bar to accomodate for one-key English/kana changing functionality.

My $0.02...

Cheers.

Originally posted by Chuckit:
I'd just like to say that I totally agree with Wataru here. Typing English on a Japanese keyboard, in my experience, is way more maddening than typing Japanese on an English keyboard.
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CharlesS
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Apr 5, 2004, 01:34 AM
 
You know, it's off-topic, but since the Japanese keyboard came up, I have a question about it.

I was helping a Japanese girl fix a problem with her Flower-Power iMac a while ago, and wanted to type a terminal command containing a backslash. However, I had trouble finding the backslash on the Japanese keyboard. Where is it, in case this happens again (where I go to school, there are quite a few international students)?
( Last edited by CharlesS; Apr 5, 2004 at 02:52 AM. )

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rjenkinson
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Apr 5, 2004, 01:42 AM
 
Originally posted by CharlesS:
I was helping a Japanese girl fix a problem with her Flower-Power iMac a while, and wanted to type a terminal command containing a backslash. However, I had trouble finding the backslash on the Japanese keyboard. Where is it...?
option- should do the trick. if you get stuck looking for a particular key, there is always the keyboard viewer under the input method menu.

Originally posted by legacyb4:
Dunno, I'd have to disagree. After using Japanese-style keyboard layout for years, it's much faster using the layout, especially for any Internet stuff (the "@" key is right under your right pinky), command line stuff (the colon, semicolon are all single key types), and the underscore is also a single key.

Things that do drive me nuts are the shortened space bar to accomodate for one-key English/kana changing functionality.
i agree. on the whole, i think the japanese keyboard is actually better than the standard QWERTY layout. my only major complaint is the placement of the single and double quote keys.

-r.
     
wataru
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Apr 5, 2004, 09:33 AM
 
Originally posted by pbjudge:
Just a further note of agreement. Most everyone I know prefers to use the kotaeri system (typing japanese based on the romanized lettering, e.g. ha, boku, ashita ) and not to use the kana symbols on the Japanese keyboard. In fact many Japanese I know, have ordered the US keyboard because the layout of some of the keys is more functional.
Just to nitpick, it's "Kotoeri," and you're still using Kotoeri whether in Romaji or Kana mode.

Another thing that I hate about the JIS keyboard is the lack of a right-side command key. Maybe that's changed, but the last one I saw only had a left key. I also hate how the Delete key is shorter.

To the original poster: Obviously there are people on both sides of this fence. I stand by my assertion that the US English keyboard is the best compromise. If you expect non-Japanese-speaking users to ever touch your computer (think repair people; hypothetically you shouldn't have a problem with Apple, but you don't know about the local nerd...) then that's another point in favor of the English keyboard.

If you do decide to go with the English keyboard, here are the settings I use for quick access to Kotoeri: In the Kotoeri preferences, set Caps Lock to "Hiragana when down." That way, whenever you need Japanese, just hit caps lock and you're there. To switch back to English, hit it again. Sometimes this doesn't work, especially when switching between different apps, so it's good to know that command+space switches to the last-used language.
( Last edited by wataru; Apr 5, 2004 at 10:57 AM. )
     
burmeseboy
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Apr 8, 2004, 07:05 AM
 
Just to be sure, because some would say I'm kinda dumb (and I'm sweating over purchasing a notebook in Japan as we debate), I could change the language of OS from japanese to english and back to japanese if I so wish? without messing up any applications?

Has anyone had any problems doing this? Does anything need to be reinatalled?

...so if I were to get an ibook with appleworks installed, and were I to switch the language of OSX to english, the language of all the software on the hard drive would change too? What happens if I were to buy other software like Office:Mac in Japan? Can the languages change over? And does this extend to all software? How can I find out more about this?

And can I get a manual in English? in Japan? for free?

QuestionsQuestionsQuestions...I should probably be bothering the people who are paid to answer these at apple instead of you...apologies.

And...how much memory is recommended when running OSX?

Allright, I'm going to stop now but help, I need somebody!
     
rjenkinson
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Apr 8, 2004, 07:40 AM
 
unless you did a custom install, japanese support should already be installed on your machine. this means you can switch the language of the OS from english to japanese freely, without any harm to your applications. whether a particular application supports japanese depends on whether the developer included that support: some applications do, some don't. it is possible to use an application in english, japanese or another language, but language support is on a case-by-case basis.

i doubt think apple offers manuals, but if they do, you will most likely have to pay some sort of shipping fee. you're better off finding someone who has a manual and doesn't need it. or consider using the built-in help system (command-?).

as far as memory goes, max out your machine. more is always better.

-r.
     
wataru
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Apr 8, 2004, 01:26 PM
 
All of the core software that comes with every OS X install is always available in every language unless you specifically choose not to install that language from the beginning. So yes, you can switch languages at any time from the International prefpane, and every app that supports the language in question will switch over. Unfortunately, AppleWorks is not a standard OS X app, and I believe it is limited to one specific language, which might be Japanese if you buy your computer in Japan. But that's just that one app. This is true for others, including Office, but there is no general rule you can go by to determine if 3rd party software contains more than one language.

When I say "limited to" or "contains only one" language, all I'm talking about is the interface. You can still use any app no matter what language the OS is set to. You can still input any language too. But the interface language may or may not change depending on the app.
     
David Lee
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Apr 9, 2004, 06:26 PM
 
I have the Japanese version of OS X installed on my iBook 933 G4 and there are no problems running the Japanese version of Photoshop 7 with Japanese given priority over English in the International system setting panel, but with the Englsh language on top over the Japanese (log out - in required to change this) there are several menus that show "Font Bake" or gobled fonts, like the "color balance" screen. That screen is usable, but it has no "words" at all, just underlines and hyphens where it should have "blue" "red" etc. Some menu drop downs work, some don't. All work corectly in Japanese. Do not have an English version to try. Is this "system" related or an "Adobe" problem?
     
wataru
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Apr 9, 2004, 09:42 PM
 
That sounds like an Adobe problem, but I'm no expert.
     
   
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