[Ozmodiar]

http://www.planetout.com/news/article.html?2005/07/21/1

What. The. Fock. I can barely type right now I'm so pissed off. Here's the best part of the article:

Members of Iran's parliament hailing from the northeastern city of Mashad complained Wednesday about news coverage of the deaths.

"Instead of paying tribute to the action of the judiciary, the media are mentioning the age of the hanged criminals and creating a commotion that harms the interests of the state," said ultraconservative deputy Ali Asgari in a quote published by Iran Focus.

"Even if certain Web sites made a reference to their age, journalists should not pursue this. These individuals were corrupt. Their sentence was carried out with the approval of the judiciary, and it served them right," he said.

I don't want this to be a religious flamewar, I just want to know how it's possible for that much hate to exist in the world. It's disgusting.

[EdGein]

Yeah that is messed up.

[Sky Captain]

And Amerika is so bad that everyone bashes us.

[von Wrangell]

Perhaps you missed this part:

Iran publicly executed two teenagers on Tuesday accusing them of raping a 13-year-old boy and having gay sex, according to Iran's ISNA news agency.

They were found guilty of raping a 13 year old kid.

If they were only executed for the gay sex I'd be just as furious as you are. But I'm not gonna condemn it if it's true that they gang-raped a 13 year old kid.

:goes looking for more respected news agencies and their take on this:

[SimpleLife]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

And Amerika is so bad that everyone bashes us.

Sorry to break your party: America is such a victim!


By the way; good call on your feign and vain concerns for these 2 youths you are using to vicitimize yourself!

Let me remind you that homosexuality acceptance is far from being complete in the industrialized world, and that the actual situation is pretty young...


Iran is on its way to democracy. Obviously, there are certainly many elements that need to change even further in their society. Transitions means leaving stuff behind and gather some new.

Certainly these youths will not be forgoten and the future will see an improvement on both the status of gay/lesbians as well as women.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

Perhaps you missed this part:

They were found guilty of raping a 13 year old kid.

If they were only executed for the gay sex I'd be just as furious as you are. But I'm not gonna condemn it if it's true that they gang-raped a 13 year old kid.

:goes looking for more respected news agencies and their take on this:

OutRage! also doubts that the 13-year-old was raped, noting that the crime was not mentioned by some key news agencies. The organization believes the alleged rape to be either a trumped-up charge or, it suggests, the 13-year-old was a willing participant.

AND!!

Iran enforces Islamic Sharia law, which demands the death penalty for gay sex. Under the Iranian penal code, girls as young as nine and boys as young as 15 can be executed.

Read entire article

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

And Amerika is so bad that everyone bashes us.

Fine example of why Amerika gets bashed, instead of showing concern to what happened to 2 young teens you use this act to make people feel sorry for poor old Amerika. Pathetic.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by Athens

AND!!



Read entire article

I read the entire article. But a group called "OutRage!" who's spokesman calls Iran "Islamo-fascist" is not something I'm gonna take reliable.

And I'm gonna take a look into that last claim to see if it's correct.

[von Wrangell]

Times Onlines has this:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...703858,00.html

OutRage! is trying to make something out this that it isn't.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by Athens

Fine example of why Amerika gets bashed, instead of showing concern to what happened to 2 young teens you use this act to make people feel sorry for poor old Amerika. Pathetic.

And at the same time you say this you forget about the 13 year old who was gang-raped.....

[Doofy]

Oh. It's something to do with OutRage! is it?
In that case, ignore it.
These guys are so bad that I was actually on Mugabe's side when he let his thugs beat Tatchell into a pulp (Tatchell tried to make a citizen's arrest on Mugabe during a diplomatic visit to Holland or somewhere).

Really. Avoid. Even if you're gay. You'll never be gay enough for Tatchell and if he finds out about you only being 100% gay he'll spend the rest of his life screaming under your window.

[Sky Captain]

Originally Posted by Athens

Fine example of why Amerika gets bashed, instead of showing concern to what happened to 2 young teens you use this act to make people feel sorry for poor old Amerika. Pathetic.

Great. Go to Iran and declare your homosexuality.
I'll disregard any Amerika bashing.

[Sky Captain]

Originally Posted by SimpleLife

Sorry to break your party: America is such a victim!


By the way; good call on your feign and vain concerns for these 2 youths you are using to vicitimize yourself!

Let me remind you that homosexuality acceptance is far from being complete in the industrialized world, and that the actual situation is pretty young...


Iran is on its way to democracy. Obviously, there are certainly many elements that need to change even further in their society. Transitions means leaving stuff behind and gather some new.

Certainly these youths will not be forgoten and the future will see an improvement on both the status of gay/lesbians as well as women.

No Amerika is such a target.

As as for acceptance, at least here the government dosen't execute someone for beinf homosexual. Just mostly Islamic nations.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

No Amerika is such a target.

As as for acceptance, at least here the government dosen't execute someone for beinf homosexual. Just mostly Islamic nations.

They weren't executed for being homosexual. They were executed because they gang-raped a 13 year old kid.

[TETENAL]

The death penalty is barbaric.

[RIRedinPA]

Originally Posted by Ozmodiar

http://www.planetout.com/news/article.html?2005/07/21/1

What. The. Fock. I can barely type right now I'm so pissed off. Here's the best part of the article:



I don't want this to be a religious flamewar, I just want to know how it's possible for that much hate to exist in the world. It's disgusting.

I thought this was another story from Wyoming.

[glyph]

I hope they didn't give that little kid aids.

OutRage! also doubts that the 13-year-old was raped, noting that the crime was not mentioned by some key news agencies. The organization believes the alleged rape to be either a trumped-up charge or, it suggests, the 13-year-old was a willing participant

Because a key news agency didn't report it? What about the facts? What about the authorities?

If you want to be gay in Iran, be a little more discreet and not gang-rape little kids at knife point.

[HawgJawl]

And I quote

OutRage! also doubts that the 13-year-old was raped, noting that the crime was not mentioned by some key news agencies. The organization believes the alleged rape to be either a trumped-up charge or, it suggests, the 13-year-old was a willing participant.

[SimpleLife]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

No Amerika is such a target.

Welcome to victimhood 101!

As as for acceptance, at least here the government dosen't execute someone for beinf homosexual. Just mostly Islamic nations.

I suggest you go back in your own History.

You may get some surprises.

[HawgJawl]

SL I think he is speaking present tense

As in the past 200 years.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

The death penalty is barbaric.

Quoted for emphasis.

[SimpleLife]

Originally Posted by HawgJawl

SL I think he is speaking present tense

As in the past 200 years.

Well, History = Process.

People require time to change, which has been true about homosexuality over the last 300 years, and more importantly in the last 50...

I am pretty sure there are some people in North America who wouldn't mind letting loose their distaste towards gays to extremes you don't seem able to imagine.

Not too long ago, homosexuality was a mental illness requiring medication.

The story of Alan Turing should enliten you; a war hero despised for his sexual orientation who ended up killing himself. That is not too far from death penalty....

The Iranian's autority's days are counted anyway. It is just a matter of a few years.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by SimpleLife

The Iranian's autority's days are counted anyway. It is just a matter of a few years.

The Iranian republic on nation-wide level is doing fine. It's the local councils around Iran that will lose their powers in the next few years.

Why you ask?

Because the Iranian government and the Guardian council aren't happy with how things are developing there. Certain punishments that the laws allow for are only meant for the absolutely worst of offenders. The local councils have started using those to keep their own power. And the Iranian government ain't happy with that.

[SimpleLife]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

The Iranian republic on nation-wide level is doing fine. It's the local councils around Iran that will lose their powers in the next few years.

Why you ask?

Because the Iranian government and the Guardian council aren't happy with how things are developing there. Certain punishments that the laws allow for are only meant for the absolutely worst of offenders. The local councils have started using those to keep their own power. And the Iranian government ain't happy with that.

I am not asking anything von. Just stating a fact.

The President of the Republic declared a few weeks ago in France that having the clergy involved in the government is a mistake.

I therefore conclude (simply) that we are bound to see major changes soon in that society. Another clue is a recent documentary called "taboo" about sexuality and prostitution in Iran.

This is only my opinion; I do not believe to be endowed with premonition powers.

[loki74]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

They weren't executed for being homosexual. They were executed because they gang-raped a 13 year old kid.

Okay see, I'm not cool with gay marriage and stuff, but I would never condone killing someone just cause they're gay. But if they go and gang rape a kid? 13 years old? I'm sorry, but I don think that an American sentence would be that far off from this. I mean, thats gotta be at least worth a life sentence or two, maybe even death. Of course, we dont do the torture thing, but still. I think these guys had it coming, if they gang raped that poor kid.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by SimpleLife

The President of the Republic declared a few weeks ago in France that having the clergy involved in the government is a mistake.

Then this must have been the going president Khatami. I sort of doubt that president-elect Ahmadinejad would have said that. The clergy has greatly consolidated its political influence with the election of Ahmadinejad.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Then this must have been the going president Khatami. I sort of doubt that president-elect Ahmadinejad would have said that. The clergy has greatly consolidated its political influence with the election of Ahmadinejad.

Khatami was a member of the clergy. Ahmadinejad is not.

[SimpleLife]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Then this must have been the going president Khatami. I sort of doubt that president-elect Ahmadinejad would have said that. The clergy has greatly consolidated its political influence with the election of Ahmadinejad.

I verified and you are right: the words are from Khatami:

Religious powers cannot be reformed through democracy without a new democratic lecture of religion and its relation to elcetoral process.

The History of Christianism, as proven in Sunnit Islam is more into its legitimacy and a functionarism of the religious.


In all political system proceeding from a transcendantal legitimacy, those in power can block any democratic changeunder the pretext of defending the sacred properties, attributed to a series of traditional privileges.

My translation from Le Monde Diplomatique, July 2005, p.14.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by glyph

I hope they didn't give that little kid aids.



Because a key news agency didn't report it? What about the facts? What about the authorities?

If you want to be gay in Iran, be a little more discreet and not gang-rape little kids at knife point.

and what if the 13 year old lied? When I was 15 I almost got my ass kicked by a friends little sister who was 10 said I touched her. She finally told the truth, she was orginally pissed at me cuz I made fun of her music and if I recall it was the New Kids on the Block lol. What if the boy found them being gay with each other and said that to get them in trouble? There are still alot of what if's. To many to justify muder.

[Taliesin]

Originally Posted by Athens

and what if the 13 year old lied? When I was 15 I almost got my ass kicked by a friends little sister who was 10 said I touched her. She finally told the truth, she was orginally pissed at me cuz I made fun of her music and if I recall it was the New Kids on the Block lol. What if the boy found them being gay with each other and said that to get them in trouble? There are still alot of what if's. To many to justify muder.

I doubt that a 13 year old boy would claim he were raped by two boys if it wasn't true. In a society like that in Iran and probably in many other societies, too, it's a pain to confess to having been raped, with all the humiliation involved then and later.

There would be only one possible reason for the 13-year-old to lie, and that is if he had sex voluntarily with those two, and when caught, he claimed to having been raped to save face and escape a punishment.

The Quran says to the followers of prophet Muhammad to punish two women or two men having same-sex-intercourse by closing them into a house until death overcomes them or God shows them a way out of the house, but only if there were four independent witnesses to that offense. And like with every harsh punishment in the Quran, there is a possibility to escape that punishment by repenting and promising to reform, ie. to not do it ever again, for God is merciful and forgiving.

Taliesin

[RIRedinPA]

Originally Posted by Taliesin

I doubt that a 13 year old boy would claim he were raped by two boys if it wasn't true. In a society like that in Iran and probably in many other societies, too, it's a pain to confess to having been raped, with all the humiliation involved then and later.

There would be only one possible reason for the 13-year-old to lie, and that is if he had sex voluntarily with those two, and when caught, he claimed to having been raped to save face and escape a punishment.

The Quran says to the followers of prophet Muhammad to punish two women or two men having same-sex-intercourse by closing them into a house until death overcomes them or God shows them a way out of the house, but only if there were four independent witnesses to that offense. And like with every harsh punishment in the Quran, there is a possibility to escape that punishment by repenting and promising to reform, ie. to not do it ever again, for God is merciful and forgiving.

Taliesin

There is also the third possibility that the government is lying and the 13-year-old is a fabrication made up after the fact because of international outrage at the sentence. Here's a link that clears nothing up and just adds to the confusion:

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Executio...rs_controversy

[budster101]

So much for their ranking on the "Human Rights" list.... well at least for moving up from the bottom...

And what is wrong again with the USA?.... Don't think we've ever executed anyone for being gay, or condoned anything violent against gays... even though at one time there were gay bashers. I'm sure they turned out to be closet homos themselves in denial....

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Taliesin

I doubt that a 13 year old boy would claim he were raped by two boys if it wasn't true.

I don't.

[yakkiebah]

Interesting. The same people who are the first to condemn the U.S. for let's say the 'Koran-in-da-toilet-and-who-gives-a-sh¡t'' incident, and are now doing anything they can to justify this?

Look at the thread about the Brazillian guy who got shot... Where are they now, to defend these two guys(16 and 18 years old) who have been accused of rape?

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by yakkiebah

Interesting. The same people who are the first to condemn the U.S. for let's say the 'Koran-in-da-toilet-and-who-gives-a-sh¡t'' incident, and are now doing anything they can to justify this?

Look at the thread about the Brazillian guy who got shot... Where are they now, to defend these two guys(16 and 18 years old) who have been accused of rape?

They were found guilty. Not just accused. At least get the basic facts right.

[yakkiebah]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

They were found guilty. Not just accused. At least get the basic facts right.

I'll give you some facts, rape or no rape it's illegal to be gay in Iran and for sodomy you'll get the death penalty.

[Kerrigan]

What has the US got to do with this? This story is about Iran.

[spatterson]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

The death penalty is barbaric.

aggreed

[ThinkInsane]

The US has nothing to do with it. I think those guys were trying to say something about the hypocrisy of some people more than trying to make this about the US.

Anyway, I was searching for a particular case I remember reading about a few years ago where a man was executed for placing an ad on a gay website (this might not have been Iran that this happened in, which is why I was searching for it) and I came across this: http://www.iran-e-azad.org/stoning/ There's a video at the end, and I would recommend some caution in viewing it.

It seems that you can get your self stoned to death for the serious criminal offenses or prostitution and adultery. Anyone want to voice their outrage about that? I don't think it's much of a stretch to imagine you could receive a death sentence for the horrible crime of being homosexual.

[yakkiebah]

From ncr-iran.org:

European Union expresses concern at reports of public execution of youths in Iran
“The European Union wishes to convey its deep concern over reports of a public execution of two youths in Mashad on 19 July 2005 despite the fact that one of the youths, Mahmoud Asqary, was aged under 18 at both the time of the crime and the execution. The EU recalls its long-held position that capital punishment may not, in any circumstances, be imposed on persons below 18 years of age at the time of the commission of their crime. Such a punishment is in direct contravention of Iran's obligations under the ICCPR and also the UN Convention of the Rights of the Child.

The EU calls on Iran to clarify its position urgently. In October 2004 the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran assured the EU that a moratorium was in place on all lashings and executions for crimes committed by those under the age of 18. The EU hopes that a law abolishing such punishments will be adopted soon, and implemented, and until that time, calls for the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran to respect the moratorium.”

Norway associates itself with this statement.

Hopefully the EU will do a little more then just hope Iran changes it's law.

[Taliesin]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane

The US has nothing to do with it. I think those guys were trying to say something about the hypocrisy of some people more than trying to make this about the US.

Anyway, I was searching for a particular case I remember reading about a few years ago where a man was executed for placing an ad on a gay website (this might not have been Iran that this happened in, which is why I was searching for it) and I came across this: http://www.iran-e-azad.org/stoning/ There's a video at the end, and I would recommend some caution in viewing it.

It seems that you can get your self stoned to death for the serious criminal offenses or prostitution and adultery. Anyone want to voice their outrage about that? I don't think it's much of a stretch to imagine you could receive a death sentence for the horrible crime of being homosexual.

The ironic part is that Iran, Sudan and parts of Pakistan are following the Thora and not the Quran with those punishments!

Strange world.

Taliesin

[dcolton]

This is a suprise...why?

A people that celebrate mass murder and kill in the name of islam.

pathetic

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by yakkiebah

Hopefully the EU will do a little more then just hope Iran changes it's law.

Yep. It'll hope that Iran changes its law and request more money from Britain, just in case it's our lack of emptying our wallets which is causing the problem.

[Iyakere]

By definition, Iran is an Islamo-sascist state. It is a state with a one party, Islamic based rule of law. Therefore the term Islamo-fascist is not a derogatory remark. It is descriptive.

Now, remember back not so far in this country's history how many black men were hanged on trumped up charges of raping white women. How cleaver the ISLAMO FASCISTS that control Iran would exploit our disgust of pedophilia to justify the execution of these two minors. Even if a 13 year old boy was involved in whatever tryste the other two were taking part in, chances are he was a willing participant. However, there is no site of this boy to be found. Also keep in mind that these boys were held in a prison for 14 months prior to there execution and were severely beaten. More than likely, they were sexually abused by the same people putting them to deah for their "crimes".

Everyone straight or gay who is quick to dismiss these two boys, keep in mind, most of you practice sexual acts that would send you to a similar fate. there is a movement in this country called the Reconstructionism that advocates the same type of law as Sharia. Do some research on it.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by Iyakere

By definition, Iran is an Islamo-sascist state. It is a state with a one party, Islamic based rule of law. Therefore the term Islamo-fascist is not a derogatory remark. It is descriptive.

Now, remember back not so far in this country's history how many black men were hanged on trumped up charges of raping white women. How cleaver the ISLAMO FASCISTS that control Iran would exploit our disgust of pedophilia to justify the execution of these two minors. Even if a 13 year old boy was involved in whatever tryste the other two were taking part in, chances are he was a willing participant. However, there is no site of this boy to be found. Also keep in mind that these boys were held in a prison for 14 months prior to there execution and were severely beaten. More than likely, they were sexually abused by the same people putting them to deah for their "crimes".

Everyone straight or gay who is quick to dismiss these two boys, keep in mind, most of you practice sexual acts that would send you to a similar fate. there is a movement in this country called the Reconstructionism that advocates the same type of law as Sharia. Do some research on it.

I always love when people start rants but in the very first paragraph they show how ignorant they are of the topic. Political parties do exist in Iran. After Presidents Khatami's election in 1997 several parties have been licensed. Parties like: Executives of Construction (pro-reform); Followers of the Imam's Line and the Leader (conservative); Islamic Coalition Association (conservative) [Habibollah Asqar-Oladi]; Islamic Iran Solidarity Party (pro-reform); Islamic Partnership Front (pro-reform); Militant Clerics Assembly (pro-reform) [Ayatollah Mahdavi Kani]; Mojahedin of the Islamic Revolution (pro-reform); Second Khordad Front (an umbrella of pro-reform groups and parties); (Tehran) Militant Clergy Association (conservative) [Secretary General Ayatollah Mohammad Emami-Kashani].

And fascism has nothing to do with a one party state or following the sharia.

[Moderator]

many social conservatives here want to put people in jail for engaging in gay sex..remember that texas case a few years back. This is just a jail/death penalty debate. And those very conservatives are quite vocal in thier support of the death penalty in many other cases....even for juveniles and the mentally retarded.

Socially conservative Iranians and socially conservative Americans are not THAT far apart. 50 years maybe?

[Iyakere]

Those parties are all virtually powerless over the mullahs and the ayatollahs which call the shots.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by Iyakere

Those parties are all virtually powerless over the mullahs and the ayatollahs which call the shots.

If you don't know their role in Iranian society compared to the role of the constitution and Supreme Courts in the West perhaps you shouldn't bother posting about it.

[Iyakere]

Would you care to give us your version of fascism. Fascism is state control of all aspects of life. Whether or not political parties exist in Iran is completely irrelevent. Any Iranian will tell you they are a facade.

And your man/freedom comment is a bag of hot air. Its just not that simple.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by Iyakere

Would you care to give us your version of fascism. Fascism is state control of all aspects of life. Whether or not political parties exist in Iran is completely irrelevent. Any Iranian will tell you they are a facade.

And your man/freedom comment is a bag of hot air. Its just not that simple.

There is no "my" version of fascism. There's just the definition of fascism. Perhaps you should look it up?

And no, it's not a facade. It's a developing system containing pros and cons. Heck, it's such a facade that there are more parties represented in the Iranian parliament than there are parties represented in the US and Uk counterpart.

Perhaps it's time for you to return(or finish?) school?