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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Two Iranian teens jailed, beaten, and executed for being gay

Two Iranian teens jailed, beaten, and executed for being gay (Page 2)
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Iyakere
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Aug 2, 2005, 10:45 AM
 
Fascism 1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.
Islam is the regime that is exalted above all in the case of Iran. I stand by my opinion that the mullahs and ayatollahs are the ones calling the shots. If there are 100 political parties in Iran, not one of there laws can trump the Koran.
Bottom line.......two (more) CHILDREN hung, Iran is a huge prison, and you are a sympathiser

"Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." THESE WERE BOYS, NOT MEN AND WHAT ABOUT THE COUNTLESS WOMEN EXECUTED? DID THEY HAVE THE CAPABILITIES TO "TAKE" THEIR FREEDOM.
     
von Wrangell
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Aug 2, 2005, 11:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by Iyakere
Fascism 1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.
Islam is the regime that is exalted above all in the case of Iran. I stand by my opinion that the mullahs and ayatollahs are the ones calling the shots. If there are 100 political parties in Iran, not one of there laws can trump the Koran.
Bottom line.......two (more) CHILDREN hung, Iran is a huge prison, and you are a sympathiser

"Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." THESE WERE BOYS, NOT MEN AND WHAT ABOUT THE COUNTLESS WOMEN EXECUTED? DID THEY HAVE THE CAPABILITIES TO "TAKE" THEIR FREEDOM.
You show an appalling lack of understanding of the Iranian system. They have a constitution. They have laws. They have a "Supreme Court" and a "Parliament".

Yes, they base their laws on the Quran. So what? Isn't that their choice? Or will you only accept them when they have become fully westernised and lost their culture and history?

These "children" were old enough to forcibly rape a 13 year old. I'm sorry if I'm not showing much sympathy for the perpetrators. Iran is not a huge prison either. Have you ever been there?

Should I feel worse because they executed women? Is it worse to execute a woman than a man? Is it better to wait until a person is old enough to be executed than executing the perpetrator soon after the crime? Is it worse to execute a young perpetrator than a mentally handicapped adult?

The only thing you have been able to establish is that you've bought the US propaganda hook, line and sinker and that you are too busy fuelling your Islamophobia to even stop for a second and think about what you are saying.

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
Iyakere
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Aug 2, 2005, 12:09 PM
 
I am of Persian descent. I have been to Iran.
You are not fit for another word
     
yakkiebah
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Aug 2, 2005, 12:10 PM
 
Von Wangell, after every post you make, the WOT is starting to make more and more sense to me. Are you aware that you sound much more extreme then any right-wing poster i've seen on this board?

BTW since when has this become US propaganda?
     
budster101
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Aug 2, 2005, 12:54 PM
 
You are just now figuring Von Wrangell out?...
     
ThinkInsane
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Aug 2, 2005, 02:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Taliesin
The ironic part is that Iran, Sudan and parts of Pakistan are following the Thora and not the Quran with those punishments!

Strange world.

Taliesin
Tal, I've never heard of the Thora and know nothing of what it is or what it means. Can you explain it for me?

Originally Posted by von Wrangell
The only thing you have been able to establish is that you've bought the US propaganda hook, line and sinker and that you are too busy fuelling your Islamophobia to even stop for a second and think about what you are saying.
And it would seem to me, from reading your posts, that you have bought the Iranian propaganda hook, line, and sinker. Have you even entertained the thought that there may well be more to the story than what the Iranian government is saying. This isn't a a religious issue, it's a human rights issue. Where is your condemnation of the simple fact that a woman can be executed by stoning, a barbaric method if ever there was one, if she has been raped because that constitutes 'adultery'? Every criticism of Iran is not 'Islamaphobia'. You're giving the impression, whether you mean to or not, that you blindly support these people because they are Muslim like yourself. Clarify your position. Do you support these governments because you believe that they are right and just, acting in the best interest of their people, or do you support them because they are Islamic?

Working in a hospital, we have many Arab and Persian doctors. My employer has hired 58 Sudanese 'Lost Boys'. I talk to them. I've heard the stories of why they fled Iran and Sudan and Iraq and other countries in the region. Horrible stories about persecution, torture, beatings, prisons, executions, and wholesale slaughter, many times involving their own families or even themselves. Have you spent any time there, or do you sit safely in your free home in Iceland, listening to only what you want to hear, because it suits your religious views? I'm not trolling, I'm asking honestly.
Nemo me impune lacesset
     
von Wrangell
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Aug 3, 2005, 05:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by yakkiebah
Von Wangell, after every post you make, the WOT is starting to make more and more sense to me. Are you aware that you sound much more extreme then any right-wing poster i've seen on this board?

BTW since when has this become US propaganda?
If you haven't noticed the US propaganda machine has been quite busy since around the year 1979 regarding Iran.

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
von Wrangell
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Aug 3, 2005, 05:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by ThinkInsane
Tal, I've never heard of the Thora and know nothing of what it is or what it means. Can you explain it for me?
TI, aren't you above that? You know what he means.(Thora -> Torah)
And it would seem to me, from reading your posts, that you have bought the Iranian propaganda hook, line, and sinker. Have you even entertained the thought that there may well be more to the story than what the Iranian government is saying. This isn't a a religious issue, it's a human rights issue. Where is your condemnation of the simple fact that a woman can be executed by stoning, a barbaric method if ever there was one, if she has been raped because that constitutes 'adultery'? Every criticism of Iran is not 'Islamaphobia'. You're giving the impression, whether you mean to or not, that you blindly support these people because they are Muslim like yourself. Clarify your position. Do you support these governments because you believe that they are right and just, acting in the best interest of their people, or do you support them because they are Islamic?
Luckily the Iranian propaganda machine isn't that good outside of Iran. And if you would read some of the comments made in this thread you would see that people are making this about Islamophobia. Just check the thread again and you'll see it. And no, I don't support everything in Iran. Not close. But I do realise that they are probably the most democratic ME country(ignoring Israel and the mess a debate on that will bring) with the most chance of changing their system for the better. And because of that I will support them more than other ME countries. Because if I support them they are more likely to move in a more "liberal" direction than a "conservative" direction. Do you think US threats lately have helped the conservatives or the liberals in Iran? Do you think the threat of a US invasion/attack on Iran will help the conservatives or the liberals in Iran more?

Iran has a system in place already that will allow change. But while the West continues to threaten Iran and don't respect their rights(Iran is like most other nations allowed to develop nuclear power for example) the hard liners will be in power and strengthen their positions.
Working in a hospital, we have many Arab and Persian doctors. My employer has hired 58 Sudanese 'Lost Boys'. I talk to them. I've heard the stories of why they fled Iran and Sudan and Iraq and other countries in the region. Horrible stories about persecution, torture, beatings, prisons, executions, and wholesale slaughter, many times involving their own families or even themselves. Have you spent any time there, or do you sit safely in your free home in Iceland, listening to only what you want to hear, because it suits your religious views? I'm not trolling, I'm asking honestly.
You'll find such stories from most non-Western countries. It's the sad truth today. But if you think Iran had it better while the Shah was in control perhaps you should start reading some (non-US manufactured) history. Iran went from being a dictatorship to being a constitutional democracy. Yes, their democracy isn't worth much compared to ours but it's their version and it's their democracy to develop. Our threats have only forced them backwards.

Yes, I have spent time there. I've worked with people there. I've helped with various things there. And the horror stories you hear about Iran is mostly fabrications and sometimes just exaggerations. Yes, it's a different country with different standards from ours but I would not want the whole world to become Westernised, eating McDonalds watching Britney Spears newest video in front of the families 42" plasma screen. I want different cultures in this world because that's important to me.

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
Taliesin
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Aug 3, 2005, 08:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by ThinkInsane
Tal, I've never heard of the Thora and know nothing of what it is or what it means. Can you explain it for me?
Oops, have I spelled it wrongly? I mean off course the Torah, the Law as revealed through prophet Moses.

Taliesin
     
ThinkInsane
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Aug 3, 2005, 10:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by Taliesin
Oops, have I spelled it wrongly? I mean off course the Torah, the Law as revealed through prophet Moses.

Taliesin
Sorry Tal, I wasn't taking a piss at you, When I read that, I wasn't thinking Torah, I figured it was an Islamic thing that I wasn't familiar with. As soon as VW pointed it out, I gave myself a slap on the forehead.
( Last edited by ThinkInsane; Aug 3, 2005 at 12:10 PM. )
Nemo me impune lacesset
     
Taliesin
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Aug 4, 2005, 03:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by ThinkInsane
Sorry Tal, I wasn't taking a piss at you, When I read that, I wasn't thinking Torah, I figured it was an Islamic thing that I wasn't familiar with. As soon as VW pointed it out, I gave myself a slap on the forehead.
Ah, ok, it would have been also ok if you had actually taken a piss at me.I have deserved it for misspelling such an important holy book.

Taliesin
     
ThinkInsane
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Aug 4, 2005, 03:49 AM
 
Well, the funny thing is I actually did google it before I posted asking you what it was, and found thousands of links for Thora Birch, which I figured couldn't be right. She's not even that good of an actress, let alone someone that you'd want to base your laws on.
Nemo me impune lacesset
     
 
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