[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Except that in the case of the iPhone, it's Apple playing catch-up.

Right, but Apple is still the leader in creating products that are much more than a piece of plastic jammed with features. The point is, its been proven that people respond much more to the experience of a product than they do to the specific features. This is indeed a different beast than the iPod, but I believe we'll see a very similar reaction to it from the public. It may take a year or so, as it was with the iPod.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Sez who?

I do agree it is highly desirable though.

Says me and my predictions are way more accurate than yours

But seriously, the iPod didn't allow 3rd party apps either and that didn't stop anyone.

If they can install Linux on an Xbox and hack OSX to run on run in the mill PC's, someone can do this.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Says me and my predictions are way more accurate than yours

But seriously, the iPod didn't allow 3rd party apps either and that didn't stop anyone.

If they can install Linux on an Xbox and hack OSX to run on run in the mill PC's, someone can do this.

Possibly, but it's gonna be harder.

If the only way to sync the iPhone is iTunes, you gotta figure out first how to even access the device...

-t

[davesimondotcom]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Possibly, but it's gonna be harder.

If the only way to sync the iPhone is iTunes, you gotta figure out first how to even access the device...

-t

I would guess that it would sync by iTunes but also by iSync. Perhaps some melding of the two.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

This is indeed a different beast than the iPod, but I believe we'll see a very similar reaction to it from the public. It may take a year or so, as it was with the iPod.

I've no doubt. But, Apple will be facing a more challenging battle in this market. Nokia, Sony-Ericsson, and Motorola are nothing to sneeze at.

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I've no doubt. But, Apple will be facing a more challenging battle in this market. Nokia, Sony-Ericsson, and Motorola are nothing to sneeze at.

I totally agree. Apple will have to really stay on top of this product, releasing very good revisions and upgrades to it regularly if they want to really try to corner the market. The fact that Apple has so many patents around this thing tells me that its going to be very difficult for someone to simply copy its functionality and interface, which is its shining features right now.

Anyways, I'm very optimistic about the future of this thing. I see it evolving into a device to end all devices. Its very exciting.

[mike one]

I'm down with it.

I've had tmobile for years now, but have never been thrilled with them. i've heard mixed things about cingular, but i'd take a chance on them.

$500 is a lot of money, but compared to the competition nothing comes close.

i had a treo 270 when they first came out, and I got school to pay the $500 for it. that was great for it's time, this thing though looks amazing. it's huge and i like carrying a really small phone, but man i think the design of this thing and its interface is absolutely amazing.

think how the ipod wheel changed how we use mp3 players, i think this screen and the way it scrolls with the push of a finger will be the next major advance in how we interface.

[mike one]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Possibly, but it's gonna be harder.

If the only way to sync the iPhone is iTunes, you gotta figure out first how to even access the device...

-t

i don't think this is going to be much of a challenge. it has bluetooth, so someone just has to write a file sharing app. similar to "ourtunes" which is a java app that allows people to copy whole itunes libraries across networks. at work not only can i listen to other peoples itunes libraries, i can download any song from them without a hitch. this isn't going to be much more difficult.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Says me and my predictions are way more accurate than yours

But seriously, the iPod didn't allow 3rd party apps either and that didn't stop anyone.

? I can't install 3rd party apps on my iPod, unless you're talking about reflashing my iPod's firmware.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Eug 

? I can't install 3rd party apps on my iPod, unless you're talking about reflashing my iPod's firmware.

You can install Linux on your iPod (depending on the Rev.).

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I've no doubt. But, Apple will be facing a more challenging battle in this market. Nokia, Sony-Ericsson, and Motorola are nothing to sneeze at.

Before the iPod if someone suggested to someone that Apple would rape and murder sony in the portable music business in less than 2 years you would have been laughed at hysterically.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug 

? I can't install 3rd party apps on my iPod, unless you're talking about reflashing my iPod's firmware.

I've seen a few even if they are just language packs or text based quiz's.

Plus the OSX on the iPhone is more familiar than some secret iPod OS burnt into a ROM.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Gossamer 

You can install Linux on your iPod (depending on the Rev.).

That's why I mentioned the part about reflashing the firmware.

Being able to install Linux through risky hacks is not going to go over well with 99.9% of people who will be buying this phone.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

I've seen a few even if they are just language packs or text based quiz's.

Well, ok, but that doesn't actually help us.

[drainyoo]

I'm kind of disappointed that the iPhone is closed but Apple must have a reason for it. I just hope that they take the responsibility of creating useful apps and widgets for the phone. Maybe they will do iPhone OSX updates like they do with the regular OSX with new features and what not.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

Anyways, I'm very optimistic about the future of this thing. I see it evolving into a device to end all devices. Its very exciting.

As am I. I'm not in the market for this iteration of the iPhone (I can't afford to spend $100-$200/month on the cellular plan it will require). But, I'm looking forward to the iPhone Lite.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

As am I. I'm not in the market for this iteration of the iPhone (I can't afford to spend $100-$200/month on the cellular plan it will require). But, I'm looking forward to the iPhone Lite.

Same, but with the iPhone Lite I still don't want to spend over $100 on the cellular plan, on contract.

This exclusivity thing really annoys me.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Well, ok, but that doesn't actually help us.

Help you with what?

What you want on it and do we know it is impossible yet?

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Same, but with the iPhone Lite I still don't want to spend over $100 on the cellular plan, on contract.

This exclusivity thing really annoys me.

Ok so with the iPhone you are unhappy about the cost, small storage and the fact that it has no 3G.... now you want a iPhone light that has even more missing but costs a little less?

How does that satisfy your concerns?

[::maroma::]

I am hearing wildly different estimates on what these data and voice plans are going to cost us. Does anyone have any solid insight on what these plans may cost. I know its hard to tell right now, since Cingular could possibly put together custom plans exclusively for this phone, or rates could change within the 5-6 months we'll have to wait. But I'd like to see some real numbers based on fact, not conjecture or estimates or wild exaggerations.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Help you with what?

What you want on it and do we know it is impossible yet?

3rd party apps of stuff people might want. I don't see text based quizzes as the killer 3rd party app for the iPhone.

For example, a lot of my colleagues love the iPhone, but would want mini-database features like they have on their PDAs. An Apple-made one would be fine, but there are several 3rd party apps out there are built specifically for their fields, with the correct terminology and appropriate feature set. Data is updatable on the road, and syncable at home/work.

BTW, many of them don't seem to be aware that 3rd party apps may not be supported. They just assume that they will be. I think they may be disappointed.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug 

3rd party apps of stuff people might want.

For example, a lot of my colleagues love the iPhone, but would want mini-database features like they have on their PDAs. An Apple-made one would be fine, but there are several 3rd party apps out there are built specifically for their fields, with the correct terminology and appropriate feature set.

Fine. Can this database be a website instead?

Think about it.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Fine. Can this database be a website instead?

Think about it.

Nope. They are not allowed to upload it to a website, and there's no point in doing that anyway because that just slows everything down for no good reason.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

3rd party apps of stuff people might want. I don't see text based quizzes as the killer 3rd party app for the iPhone.

For example, a lot of my colleagues love the iPhone, but would want mini-database features like they have on their PDAs. An Apple-made one would be fine, but there are several 3rd party apps out there are built specifically for their fields, with the correct terminology and appropriate feature set. Data is updatable on the road, and syncable at home/work.

BTW, many of them don't seem to be aware that 3rd party apps may not be supported. They just assume that they will be. I think they may be disappointed.

Filemaker Pro for the iPhone would be awesome. Our databases at work are all Filemaker Pro, and it would be a huge help to be able to remotely access them from an iPhone.

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Nope. They are not allowed to upload it to a website, and there's no point in doing that anyway because that just slows everything down for no good reason.

Well no one has claimed that this phone is for everyone, even Apple said it isn't. They are looking to make 1% of the market happy. I think they've already done that, even before the thing hit the shelves. I have full confidence that Apple will meet the needs of the other 99% in the future.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Nope. They are not allowed to upload it to a website, and there's no point in doing that anyway because that just slows everything down for no good reason.

Well, guess that .002% market Apple will have to do without for a while.

[Dark Helmet]

I knew I saw that pinch thing before:

Multi-Touch Interaction Research

[Dakar²]

Yep, I thought so too.

I musta seen it on Tech TV or something.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

Well no one has claimed that this phone is for everyone, even Apple said it isn't. They are looking to make 1% of the market happy. I think they've already done that, even before the thing hit the shelves. I have full confidence that Apple will meet the needs of the other 99% in the future.

3rd party applications need to be more important to Apple. This phone is advanced enough it could make significant in roads into the corporate market, but all those corporations and businesses use database systems or even internal applications.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

I knew I saw that pinch thing before:

Multi-Touch Interaction Research

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

Yep, I thought so too.

I musta seen it on Tech TV or something.

I'm pretty sure somebody posted that here.

[Dakar²]

Ah, that might be it.

[Goldfinger]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Well, guess that .002% market Apple will have to do without for a while.

What Eug is discribing is far from a 0,002% market...

It's a very valid concern.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Goldfinger 

What Eug is discribing is far from a 0,002% market...

It's a very valid concern.

Yes, I can add a few things to the list also.

Question is, do you think because of this apple will not meet its 1% goal?

If the answer is no don't bother babbling on about missing Java, floppy disk support etc.

[Wiskedjak]

Here's another bit of information that would have me holding back on purchasing an iPhone:

Apple VPs confirm no 3rd party iPhone apps - The Unofficial Apple Weblog (TUAW)
The screen is the same polycarbonite material as the iPod overlaid with a touch element.

Given the touch interface, we won't be able to protect the iPhone from scratches in the same ways we protect the iPod.

[Goldfinger]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Yes, I can add a few things to the list also.

Question is, do you think because of this apple will not meet its 1% goal?

If the answer is no don't bother babbling on about missing Java, floppy disk support etc.

I don't know. Do you know ?

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Given the touch interface, we won't be able to protect the iPhone from scratches in the same ways we protect the iPod.

Are you sure about that. Just about every touch screen I have seen was still usable if you put a sheet of plastic over it.

[centerchannel68]

I have disposable plastic things that protect the screen of my toshiba PDA, and it still works fine.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Yes, I can add a few things to the list also.

Question is, do you think because of this apple will not meet its 1% goal?

If the answer is no don't bother babbling on about missing Java, floppy disk support etc.

I demand that I be able to use my 5 1/4" Oregon Trail floppy disks.

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by goMac 

3rd party applications need to be more important to Apple. This phone is advanced enough it could make significant in roads into the corporate market, but all those corporations and businesses use database systems or even internal applications.

Of course. Did you read my post? Apple is fully aware that this is the first round of a product that will grow immensely in the future. They are shooting for 1% right now. There is no reason to believe that Apple won't either open up the phone to 3rd party developers or create their own business apps in the future.

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by Gossamer 

I demand that I be able to use my 5 1/4" Oregon Trail floppy disks.

Gossamer has died of dysentery.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Are you sure about that. Just about every touch screen I have seen was still usable if you put a sheet of plastic over it.

I suppose that's true. I was thinking more about the iPod where it's a challenge to get such protectors to fit around the scroll wheel. The iPhone has no such buttons and is more PDA-like

(duh - I always used a screen protector on my Palms)

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Goldfinger 

I don't know. Do you know ?

Well Apple thinks they will.

I can come up with stupid things that it can't do all day.

Oh, no 3rd party support means my gardener won't get one because he can't put his weed managment app on it.

My Doctor can't use one for his database of CAT scans... oh no. That is if he is even allowed to have a phone in a hospital.

The point is you will find a bunch of people who can't use it for whatever reason but they don't equal 99.5 of everyone out there.

Apple wants 1%, this device caters perfectly to a number WAY higher than 1%.

The CAT scan and database/echange folks have to stick with their barries etc but in the mean time apple will not even notice as they will land that 1% no sweat.

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Here's another bit of information that would have me holding back on purchasing an iPhone:



Given the touch interface, we won't be able to protect the iPhone from scratches in the same ways we protect the iPod.

How do you know that the overlaying touch screen isn't highly scratch resistant?

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Oh, no 3rd party support means my gardener won't get one because he can't put his weed managment app on it.

There's a weed management app out there?? Where??

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

How do you know that the overlaying touch screen isn't highly scratch resistant?

I hope they use that coating they put on Blu-ray disks as it is very resistant apparently.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

Gossamer has died of dysentery.

Ah, the good ol' days. How is it I had two kids drown whenever I tried to ford a 2 foot deep river?

[::maroma::]

It amazes me how quick people are to say things like "this is why I won't be getting this phone..." or "here's why this isn't going to work..." then proceeds to state something as fact that simply isn't, based on something they read on a blog or message board. What's the deal?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

Of course. Did you read my post? Apple is fully aware that this is the first round of a product that will grow immensely in the future. They are shooting for 1% right now. There is no reason to believe that Apple won't either open up the phone to 3rd party developers or create their own business apps in the future.

If the phone was corporate friendly they would easily take 1% of the market, more likely far more. I know Apple is going for 1%, but I don't think there would be any argument that more market share faster would be better.

The amount of the population that would be interested in a phone this expensive without support for 3rd party apps is small. Probably under 1%. Anyone who is willing to spend $500 for a phone is going to be looking for 3rd party apps as a feature.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

It amazes me how quick people are to say things like "this is why I won't be getting this phone..." or "here's why this isn't going to work..." then proceeds to state something as fact that simply isn't, based on something they read on a blog or message board. What's the deal?

I'll get the phone, but they really need to add 3rd party app support. This isn't the iPod, Apple is not strolling into a power vacuum. Other phone Manufacturers (and Microsoft, which has a strong foothold here) are going to try to beat Apple to the corporate market. Apple needs to act quickly before everyone else beats them to the corporate market.

[centerchannel68]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Filemaker Pro for the iPhone would be awesome. Our databases at work are all Filemaker Pro, and it would be a huge help to be able to remotely access them from an iPhone.

We have a huge database at school that I can access from the web.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

We have a huge database at school that I can access from the web.

They make Filemaker Pro for Palm and PocketPC, I just thought an iPhone version would be nice.