[Doofy]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6921534.stm

More than a third of British Asians do not feel British, a BBC poll suggests.
The research among the under-34s for the Asian Network found 38% of the UK residents of South Asian origin felt only slightly or not at all British.

More than a third agreed to get on in the UK they needed to be a "coconut", a term for somebody who is "brown on the outside but white on the inside".

ICM Research interviewed 500 Asian people aged 16-34 and 235 white people aged 18-34 between 4 and 12 July.

Of those polled 84% were satisfied with life in Britain and almost half thought they have more opportunities here.

Half of the South Asians and nearly two-thirds of the white people interviewed agreed it was too easy for immigrants to settle in Britain.

Fair enough. Now here's the bizarre bit:

Three-quarters felt their culture was being diluted by living in the UK and nearly half believed white people do not treat them as British.

So, immigrants are coming here and bringing their culture with them (else why would it be being diluted?). But then they're whining that members of the indigenous culture fail to see them as British.

Hardly surprising, is it? If you emigrate and take your own culture with you (essentially snubbing your host country's culture) can you really expect the inhabitants to see you as one of their own?

If I go to live in Spain and constantly walk around with an England football shirt on, speaking English and eating fish and chips, the Spanish aren't really going to accept me as a Spaniard, are they?

[Atheist]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

If I go to live in Spain and constantly walk around with an England football shirt on, speaking English and eating fish and chips, the Spanish aren't really going to accept me as a Spaniard, are they?

Well of course they should accept you as a Spaniard. As a matter of fact, they should go out of their way to accommodate you. They should print everything in English and modify all of their phone systems to operate in your language. You wouldn't want to be inconvenienced now would you?

[Obi Wan's Ghost]

They always use that term 'British Asians' when they really mean Muslims. Asia is one big ****ing continent that includes Jews, Arabs, Persians, Afghans, Hindus, Buddhists, Himalayan groups, Chinese, Japanese, Polynesians, Indo-Chinese (Thai, Indonesian, Burmese, Cambodian, Malaysian etc). You don't hear any complaints from anyone except Muslims out of all those Asians because Islam is the only group that thinks it should be the dominant culture and political system in the world.

[Atheist]

Originally Posted by Obi Wan's Ghost 

You don't hear any complaints from anyone except Muslims out of all those Asians because Islam is the only group that thinks it should be the dominant culture and political system in the world.

Ummm... you have heard of the USA haven't you?

[Obi Wan's Ghost]

Originally Posted by Atheist 

Ummm... you have heard of the USA haven't you?

In case you haven't noticed there is no constitution or document in the US of A that says it should be the dominant system in the world that all people's should bow down to. The USA is a multi-cultural democracy with vast amounts of wealth invested all over the world that is gradually raising the standards of all people (some slower, some quicker). Everyone is free to invest their money in the US, to criticise it, to praise it, to knock it down, to come up with all sorts of conspiracy theories about it, to become wealthier and better of being a part of it.

Don't play the game of moral equivalence with a religion that says it must rule the world by force or persuasion, that robs a person of freedom of expression, takes away equality of the sexes, and that all non-Muslims must be made to feel inferior by paying higher taxes and not having the same opportunities. Do we really have to go into the ****ing difference for the billionth time?

The BBC is being a politically correct bag of sh!te when it rudely pigeon holes all Asians like that. The majority of those polled were Muslim. The only people quoted in the article were two Hindus who said they did feel British. Nuff said.

[Atheist]

I was responding to your statement that Islam is the only group that thinks it should be the dominant culture and political system. I think it's very fair to say that most Americans feel their culture and political system should dominate the world. Mind you, I would argue that Americans (of which I'm one) feel this way because they believe the U.S. is the greatest country on earth and that everyone should benefit from it's greatness.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Obi Wan's Ghost 

They always use that term 'British Asians' when they really mean Muslims. Asia is one big ****ing continent that includes Jews, Arabs, Persians, Afghans, Hindus, Buddhists, Himalayan groups, Chinese, Japanese, Polynesians, Indo-Chinese (Thai, Indonesian, Burmese, Cambodian, Malaysian etc). You don't hear any complaints from anyone except Muslims out of all those Asians because Islam is the only group that thinks it should be the dominant culture and political system in the world.

9 times out of 10, what they actually mean is Indians and Pakistanis. But don't let that stop you...

[Doofy]

The poll was commissioned to coincide with the BBC's India and Pakistan '07 season of programmes to mark the 60th anniversary of the 1947 partition of India.

Any ideas what the 1947 partition of India was caused by? Certain people not wanting to fit in with other cultures, perhaps?

[Chuckit]

Being an American (and thus thinking of this rather than this when you say "Asian"), this thread confused me greatly at first.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

So, immigrants are coming here and bringing their culture with them...

Damn immigrants! They should adopt the native culture, just like the Saxons and Normans did when they came!

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

this

403 here

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Being an American (and thus thinking of this

Hyori Lee?

[Obi Wan's Ghost]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

9 times out of 10, what they actually mean is Indians and Pakistanis. But don't let that stop you...

You mean Pakistani and Arab, because Indian culture in India is mostly British (Anglo-Indian to be specific) anyway. From curries to the railways and from the official language to the education system, it's all British. There's no Indian coconut sentiment. Indians have always been highly efficient and absorbing cultures. Only Pakistanis and Arabs are making a fuss (everywhere they go) that they shouldn't have to integrate and that we should give them more and more power and a bigger say in our societies while they're fanatics go about killing or making death threats against our writers, scientists and artists.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Hyori Lee?

That is who I attempted to link, yeah. The point was just that I totally didn't make the Muslim connection. I was thinking it was Koreans complaining or something.

[Atomic Rooster]

I think it's high time the Limeys are getting ****ed up the ass as they have done for centuries to others, but leave out the genocide that the Brits perpetrated.

The more the Doof is pissed off the happier I feel. He has forgotten the misery they have caused in the past.

[Graviton]

I think how they feel is understandable. There is still a lot of racism and suspicion around, so I'm not surprised a third of Asian youth don't feel like they fit in.

To be fair, a third of white British youths probably don't feel like they fit in. Hell, I often don't feel like I fit in. Unless your a consumer goods obsessed Sun reader who masturbates on the toilet while reading Top Gear magazine, then someone will probably claim that you are not British enough and don't fit in.

As long as as we all play nicely and accept each others freedoms, then there's room for all types of people in Britain. It's only a small minority (like the BNP or the Islamic extremists) that try to ruin it all for everybody else and if 'being British' is anything it's our refusal to submit to the whims of those types of people.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Atomic Rooster 

The more the Doof is pissed off the happier I feel.

Well, you can stop smiling 'coz I ain't pissed off. I was simply making an observation about the absence of logic in the survey's responses.

I don't feel British myself and consider 90%+ of Brits to be complete arseholes, so why would I be pissed off when someone else doesn't feel British?

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

That is who I attempted to link, yeah. The point was just that I totally didn't make the Muslim connection. I was thinking it was Koreans complaining or something.

Many of us learned the English refer to Middle Easterners as "Asians" from the eyewitness accounts during this summer's terrorist attacks against GB. That's how they described the attackers. I wonder if that is true elsewhere in Europe.

[Kerrigan]

In other news, every Scot polled, with the exception of Gordon Brown, did not feel British.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Many of us learned the English refer to Middle Easterners as "Asians" from the eyewitness accounts during this summer's terrorist attacks against GB. That's how they described the attackers. I wonder if that is true elsewhere in Europe.

Well, I did know that was how the English used the term (I think real Asians are still called "Oriental" over there?), but the term still doesn't bring the right image to mind right away.

[Kerrigan]

"West Asia" is a term which is slowly supplanting "Middle East".

This is something I've never quite agreed with. If it's patronizing to refer to people as being from the East, it should also be impolite to refer to us as the West. The terminology does not place Europe in the center of the world; we are west of them, they are east of us. Why should this be patronizing or imperialistic?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Well, I did know that was how the English used the term (I think real Asians are still called "Oriental" over there?)

"Chinks" and "Japs" is generally used down on the street...

...and not in a racist way either (before anyone chimes in) - use on the street is more like using "Brits" for UK folks or "yanks" for US.

It's extremely rare to hear anyone call them "orientals" - generally restricted to folks who're over 90 and stuffy types.

There's actually so few east Asians here (and they're generally so well integrated, polite and nice) that they rarely get a mention on the TV or any official channels - so I can't remember what the powers that be call them.

[macintologist]

I'm in ur country, taking on ur culture.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

"West Asia" is a term which is slowly supplanting "Middle East".

This is something I've never quite agreed with. If it's patronizing to refer to people as being from the East, it should also be impolite to refer to us as the West. The terminology does not place Europe in the center of the world; we are west of them, they are east of us. Why should this be patronizing or imperialistic?

It's worse than that. East and West no longer really have any geological component. West now basically means 'civilized' and East basically means 'barbarian'. Native cultures in South America, which longitudinally are basically equal to America and Canada (if not more 'Western' as they're closer to Europe on that axis), are often contrasted with 'Western' cultures. No one would every say such a thing about the United States. Similarly, Australia is unquestionably considered a 'Western' country, despite being to the East of India and in line with much of China.

Make no mistake about it, nowadays the East/West distinction is purely a modern expression of the white man's burden.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Well, you can stop smiling 'coz I ain't pissed off. I was simply making an observation about the absence of logic in the survey's responses.

I don't feel British myself and consider 90%+ of Brits to be complete arseholes, so why would I be pissed off when someone else doesn't feel British?

Yet you start a thread where it's clear that you imply otherwise.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

Yet you start a thread where it's clear that you imply otherwise.

I did nothing of the sort. I simply pointed out the problematic logic in the piece. The story happened to be about immigrants to Britain because strangely enough, I'd been reading the BBC's web site. Heck, I even threw in an example regarding Spain.

I can't help it if too much pot has fsked up your perceptions and consequently you think that anyone not wearing a Che T and sandals is Hitler.

[red rocket]

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Many of us learned the English refer to Middle Easterners as "Asians" from the eyewitness accounts during this summer's terrorist attacks against GB. That's how they described the attackers. I wonder if that is true elsewhere in Europe.

Not Middle Easterners, but Indians and Pakistanis.

This is a map of the Middle East:



India and Pakistan aren't on it.* (There's a sliver of Pakistan on there, but hopefully you get the idea.)

The reason the media and a lot of politically correct (or stupid) people in Britain refer to Indians and Pakistanis as ‘Asian’ is that those are the main groups of people from Asia living in Britain. In most cases, you cannot tell the difference between a Pakistani and an Indian (a lot of ‘Indian’ takeaways are in fact run by Pakistanis, not that you'd notice), so it's convenient to lump them together as ‘Asian’.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I did nothing of the sort. I simply pointed out the problematic logic in the piece. The story happened to be about immigrants to Britain because strangely enough, I'd been reading the BBC's web site. Heck, I even threw in an example regarding Spain.

I can't help it if too much pot has fsked up your perceptions and consequently you think that anyone not wearing a Che T and sandals is Hitler.

The Artful Dodger is alive and well.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

The Artful Dodger is alive and well.

If one is the type to have shrivelled up little prunes instead of plums and thus tend to imply things when they communicate, then it's quite possible that one is also the type to assume that other people imply things when they communicate.

Got news for ya: Some of us say exactly what we mean.

If you can get "pissed off" and "view myself as British" from the original post in this thread then you're living proof that the left is full of whack jobs with severely low comprehension skills.

[amazing]

Nothing whatsoever strange about feeling like you don't belong. Here's some more banal examples, but the basic principle is the same:

New Yorkers certainly don't feel like they belong to the US. There's that whole thing about seceding from the States and annexing to the EU, because there's more commonality. For a true born and raised New Yorker, other parts of the States simply don't exist. Or if they exist, it's only so that you can make fun of them.

Parisians don't feel like the rest of France exists. Move a Parisian to the countryside and you'll never more moaning and groaning.

Back on topic: you take a very insular culture like the Brits or the Japs, and you add in some immigrants, it's gonna take forever and a day before there's any cracks in the facade. What's to explain? Besides, any culture devoted to their Imperial History has gotta have some groups to bully. Reinforces the old identity and superiority, what?

Indians back home will bully other castes and cultures. Pakistanis will bully other tribes and cultures. If they're at the top of the heap in India, they're way down the heap when they move to the UK. It's quite a shock when all of a sudden, they find themselves being bullied. They've just conveniently forgotten what they were doing to the other castes and tribal people back home.

India has somewhere around 58 secession movements, whole areas of the country where policemen can't venture. Go ask those people if they feel like they belong in India?

[olePigeon]

Well, some Chinese are literally 2nd class citizens. They're not allowed to live in England despite having dual citizenship. I would imagine that being British, but not being allowed to live in the UK would make me feel somewhat less British than other Britons.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Well, some Chinese are literally 2nd class citizens. They're not allowed to live in England despite having dual citizenship. I would imagine that being British, but not being allowed to live in the UK would make me feel somewhat less British than other Britons.

Do tell. You talking about the Ghurkas?

[NobleMatt]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

In other news, every Scot polled, with the exception of Gordon Brown, did not feel British.

lol, good shout

anyway to my opinion, I live at home in York which is (well was untill the last 6 months) mostly white with a small "Oriental" population who i have always seen to be british, but when at uni i live in High Wycombe which has the largest density of Asian people in the UK or (or something). Talk about culture shock, i hadn't every really experianced an Asian comunity before but to be, very few of them come across as British. They wear Asian cloths, bought from Asian shops, which are playing Asian Music, Where the clerk speaks Asian languages. Teens hang around in gangs driving loud cars playing loud asian music, you rarely see them intergrating with British people. I dont see most the asians i interact with as been British.

Heres one for you, in an area near my uni their local newspaper in printed in Arabic mostly with English been the 2nd language. I do believe we are letting too many Imagrants into the country. And I do believe those who do come should respect our country and take on out culture and customs otherwise Britain isnt going to be British much longer.

Matt

[red rocket]

Originally Posted by crazyreaper 

lol, good shout

anyway to my opinion, I live at home in York which is (well was untill the last 6 months) mostly white with a small "Oriental" population who i have always seen to be british, but when at uni i live in High Wycombe which has the largest density of Asian people Indians or Pakistanis in the UK or (or something). Talk about culture shock, i hadn't every really experianced an Asian Indian or Pakistani comunity before but to be, very few of them come across as British. They wear Asian Indian or Pakistani cloths, bought from Asian Indian or Pakistani shops, which are playing Asian Music Hindi-pop or Bhangra, Where the clerk speaks Asian languages Hindi, Urdu, Punjabi, or something. Teens hang around in gangs driving loud cars playing loud asian music Hindi-pop or Bhangra, you rarely see them intergrating with British people. I dont see most the asians Indians or Pakistanis i interact with as been British like the white people and Orientals I know back in York.

Heres one for you, in an area near my uni their local newspaper in printed in Arabic the Urdu writing system, an extension of Persian mostly with English been the 2nd language. I do believe we are letting too many Imagrants into the country. And I do believe those who do come should respect our country and take on out culture and customs otherwise Britain isnt going to be British much longer.

Matt

Fixed some of your ambiguities and errors.

Any bunch of expatriates anywhere in the world are going to converse amongst each other in their native language, and have local newspapers in that language.

Seriously, I had no idea York was such a bastion of the white man, it must have been quite a shock for you to venture out of that bubble.

Okay, I'm from London, so maybe I'm a bit biased towards multiculturalism in general, but it seems to me that there shouldn't be any pressure put on immigrants to act ‘British’, at all. Having a wide variety of cultures around to interact with enhances the experience of living in the country. If everyone of these people dressed and talked and acted like the white aborigines, it'd be a pretty surreal and artificial environment, in my opinion. When us English go abroad, we don't necessarily go native, either.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by red rocket 

Fixed some of your ambiguities and errors.

And that's exactly why I feckin hate the British. Lefties especially.
What you did there is typically British, based around the need to poke your nose into other people's stuff - even to the extent of attempting to give them their opinions.

Originally Posted by red rocket 

it seems to me that there shouldn't be any pressure put on immigrants to act ‘British’

Congratulations on completely missing the point of the thread.

Which was, in case you hadn't noticed, about folks not integrating then wondering why natives don't treat them as native.

It's not about the folks who aren't integrating and not whining about not being seen as native. And it's not about folks who are integrating and are whining about not being seen as native.

[red rocket]

I'm not attempting to give him his opinion. That's why I've left his ‘Asian’ references in there, and added my observations in boldface. Otherwise, I would have had to segment his post into ten different quotations. This was more efficient.

And I wasn't missing the point. Matt specifically stated that immigrants should take on British culture and customs, that's what I was responding to.

[amazing]

Just for perspective, think about Vancouver: Over half the population has a first language other than English. They seem to most happily cohabitate, or so I think, mostly because there's no vast publicity to the contrary.

So, here's the criteria:
Please feel free to contribute your cultural diversity to the life of the country as a whole, with the proviso that you don't violently oppress people within your own cultural community or violently agitate against your present country AND you don't use the prosperity and peace of your adopted country to further violence and revolution and oppression abroad.

Here's some corollaries to the above:
1. No honor killings. No forced oppression of women, in any way, shape, or custom.
2. No gang warfare.
3. If your children embrace the freedom of their new adopted country, then this is why you came here. So be it. Release them to their newfound freedom. That's why you came to your adopted country.
4. If your children rebel against their new adopted country, then this is NOT why you came to the new country. You came to escape conflict, violence, injustice. Do not let even your own children bring conflict into the peace of your adopted country.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by amazing 

Just for perspective, think about Vancouver: Over half the population has a first language other than English. They seem to most happily cohabitate, or so I think, mostly because there's no vast publicity to the contrary.

Yeah, something should really be done to force everyone in Vancouver to speak English, and only English. Quebec too.

[NobleMatt]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

And that's exactly why I feckin hate the British. Lefties especially.
What you did there is typically British, based around the need to poke your nose into other people's stuff - even to the extent of attempting to give them their opinions.

Congratulations on completely missing the point of the thread.

Which was, in case you hadn't noticed, about folks not integrating then wondering why natives don't treat them as native.

It's not about the folks who aren't integrating and not whining about not being seen as native. And it's not about folks who are integrating and are whining about not being seen as native.

Thanks for the back up for a sec there doofy... untill u said u hated the british... maybe u just dont like the welsh, scotts and northern irish... yer ill take it like that

the reason i used the terms which u have annoyingly spent way too much time correcting is because they were the terms used in everyone elses posts and didnt wanna start confusing ppl and these terms and their meanings had already been made clear.

Seriously, I had no idea York was such a bastion of the white man, it must have been quite a shock for you to venture out of that bubble.

Yer... just a bit to start with lol... before that i had been to bradford once and birmingham once which were the only 2 times i experianced multicultural towns/cities.

Sorry maybe i did go a little off topic with my last post, but i just think that with our country opening our doors to give these people a better chance in life (cause i dout any of them are moving here for any other reason) then they could at least repay the kindness of the British public by adopting some customs, im not saying they should change their religion, just make some effort to speak the language, generally do thinks to make the british feel at home in britain.

Matt

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by crazyreaper 

Thanks for the back up for a sec there doofy... untill u said u hated the british... maybe u just dont like the welsh, scotts and northern irish... yer ill take it like that

I make exceptions for about 5% of the population. Generally; Mac users, hair metallers, hot chicks and me mum (who still makes a fine cheese on toast).

[NobleMatt]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I make exceptions for about 5% of the population. Generally; Mac users, hair metallers, hot chicks and me mum (who still makes a fine cheese on toast).

LOL! Cant beat cheese on toast

what the hell is a Hair Metaller?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by crazyreaper 

what the hell is a Hair Metaller?

Hair metal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRN06SlATTY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAiiFfnrALA

[Faust]

I could really vomit with disgust after reading some of the really sad, racist arguments in this thread ...

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Faust 

I could really vomit with disgust after reading some of the really sad, racist arguments in this thread ...

Could you point them out to us, because I for one can't see what you're on about.

[NobleMatt]

no ones being racist, i was worrid this thread could turn out to be just that when i came to it, but i think things have been spoke about farley and both points of view have been expressed.

Matt

[Doofy]

This must be the racism Faust was on about:

Asians less likely to 'marry out' - Independent Online Edition > This Britain

Asians less likely to 'marry out'

Five times as many young Asians as white people would only marry someone of their own race, a survey has revealed.

Nearly half of Asians aged between 16 and 34 would only marry someone from the same racial group, compared to just 9 per cent of white respondents.

The survey, by ICM for the BBC Asian Network, also found that more than half of young Asians would not consider dating a black person. And it showed that five times as many young Asians as whites believe homosexuality to be immoral.

Commissioned as part of a season examining the state of mind of Britain's Asian population, the survey found UK Asians hold dramatically different attitudes to friends and relationship than that of their white peers.

According to the survey, nearly half - 44 per cent - of the Asian respondents would only marry another Asian. Eighty-seven per cent of white people said they would consider a mixed marriage but only 53 per cent of Asians felt the same.

The study showed that, while 83 per cent of white respondents would consider going out with a black person, just 44 per cent of Asians would do so.

But the survey also showed that young white people are twice as likely as Asians to choose their friends from their own racial group. More than two-thirds of young whites (69 per cent) said that all or most of their friends are also white, compared to 31 per cent of Asians whose friends are all or mostly Asian.

Young Asians also appear to have very different attitudes to homosexuality than their white counterparts: 44 per cent of young Asians believe homosexuality is immoral - an opinion shared by just 8 per cent of whites.

ICM Research interviewed two separate samples of people younger than 34 when carrying out the study last month. Interviews were conducted across the country and the results weighted to the profile of those involved.

"Asian" refers to people identifying themselves as Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi or Sri Lankan.

The survey is for a season of programmes exploring the lives of young British Asians 60 years after the independence of India and Pakistan.