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chezpaul · May 7, 2005, 05:00 PM

Is it just me or has my OS X experience after installing Tiger not changed one bit ?
I mean come on, really... I've had a mac since OS 7 and this upgrade is really crap...

What did we get ?
Spotlight ? .. I used COM+F very well thank you, I use Quicksilver very well thank you.
Dashboard ?.. I tried konfabulator and realized it wasn't for me. Same with Dashboard. (it's really the same program)
What else am I missing... ??
Ichat on steroids ??? Try to find three people who will have all the requirements for a video conf, I know I can't. i'm still using ichat the same way then in Panther.

Really, this is a nice update, sure cause we all love our macs but it could have been a $20 update at the most. But not all this hype... it's all hype. !!!
Come on.. you can say it....

TETENAL · May 7, 2005, 05:13 PM

Tiger is great.

Dashboard I agree with you. This is pretty ueseless.

sodamnregistered2 · May 7, 2005, 05:14 PM

I timed buying my Mini so I got Tiger for free, so I have none of the "too expensive for $120" feeling.

Based on reading the Ars article, it does seem like the big changes are indeed under the hood. Standardizing APIs and so forth. It does seem like the chicken finally came home to roost. OS X 10.0 was clearly a rush job, and development since then was probably on top of a patchwork system. We are finally paying for the clean up.

Spotlight is nice once you figure out how to integrate it into your workflow. The UI is still a trainwreck, but overall the UI is as responsive as it's ever been. The overall system seems quite a bit snappier.

Tiger may be overhyped, but 10.3.9 was clearly a little creaky. Also, there are not that many "ground shaking" things they can do.

10.4 may not be all that, but I bet 10.4.1 or 10.4.4 or whatever will be the best OS X yet. The trend remains clearly on the side of improvement.

sodamnregistered2 · May 7, 2005, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Dashboard I agree with you. This is pretty ueseless.

That was my initial reaction too. Then I learned how easy it is gonna be to make things for the dashboard. There should be a bunch of nice lil' apps coming in the future. I'm learning to use the dictionary, and it's finally allowing me to not leave dictionary.com up on a webpage all the time.

Developing for Dashboard

Big Mac · May 7, 2005, 05:47 PM

This thread is redundant.

mitchell_pgh · May 7, 2005, 06:32 PM

There are VARIOUS enhancements beyond spotlight and dashboard. The real issue is, MANY of the major enhancements tend to be a hard sell to a novice user.

bmedina · May 7, 2005, 06:37 PM

What, did you expect Apple not to hype up a major OS release/

osxisfun · May 7, 2005, 06:43 PM

I like cheese.

mitchell_pgh · May 7, 2005, 06:46 PM

I also hate to compare OS X to Windows, but what "major" improvements did Windows 95 have over Windows XP? Sure, a ton under the hood, but for the most part, it looks about the same (minus their horrific GUI upgrade)

ism · May 7, 2005, 06:49 PM

Apart from a few glitches (smb, router & DNS issues, firewire drive mount drops) I'm glad I've gone for Tiger straight off. Previously I've had to wait to upgrade to Panther & Jaguar from being skint. I fail to see how anyone can't find Automater useful. I'm suprised that hasn't been hyped more than anything else. Smart folders are ace. Parental controls are welcomed (for parents). Slideshow is ace. I don't know, my girlfriend doesn't get it either, but what does that say? She would have been impressed if the packaging had been Jaguar-esque. Or if it had growled. At all. My daughter would have been stoked at that. What a missed oppurtunity! I guess it's what you are after.

romeosc · May 7, 2005, 06:52 PM

I believe Tiger is over hyped, but I love Spotlight and it is worth the price of admission.

As a pre Mac Plus user, I found it hard to put things where OS X wants it. This way I can find my disorganized projects with ease! I can't wait until Carbon cloner works again!

typoon · May 7, 2005, 07:41 PM

I for one don't feel like Tiger was over hyped. I use quite a few of the dashboard Widgets and it makes life a lot easier. I use the calculator all the time. It's much easier than bringing up the one in apps. I also find myself using the weather and dictionary ones all the time.

Automator to me is worth the price of admission. It really helps with workflows. Sporlight is good. I use it every so often to find things on my Mac and it seems to to a pretty good job. It seems pretty quick.

Overall I find the system MUCH faster on my 3 machines. RSS is great built into Safari. now to find a bunch of people to talk to over iChat

Anubis IV · May 7, 2005, 07:41 PM

It's one of those updates that I think will pay off not so much in the bundled new features, but rather in the software that will take advantage of the new technologies. Wait a few months and see if you still feel that Tiger was oberhyped. Within the next few months, we'll hopefully see software that can fully leverage the new underpinnings of the OS, and with that change we'll hopefully feel more justified in upgrading. For right now though, I'll settle for the semi-gimmicky new things.

mitchell_pgh · May 7, 2005, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by Anubis IV

It's one of those updates that I think will pay off not so much in the bundled new features, but rather in the software that will take advantage of the new technologies. Wait a few months and see if you still feel that Tiger was oberhyped. Within the next few months, we'll hopefully see software that can fully leverage the new underpinnings of the OS, and with that change we'll hopefully feel more justified in upgrading. For right now though, I'll settle for the semi-gimmicky new things.

Exactly... up until Tiger, Apple didn't guarantee anything in the APIs from update to update.

I think in 6-9 months, Tiger will be looking great. I hope Quark7/CS2 all get cleaned up to where they purr under Tiger.

analogika · May 7, 2005, 09:19 PM

Tiger rocks.

Dashboard is as useful as the widgets that are made available.

Spotlight is so far beyond Cmd-F that even comparing the two is funny in itself.

The speed gains are *quite* noticeable, especially in the Finder, and my five-year-old little iMac G3 finally feels as nimble and polished as it is ever going to get. Some of the improvements on that machine are nothing short of incredible - Finder slideshows are instant, as is dragging large numbers of objects. Just about all the little edges have been smoothed out, and the whole thing runs very, very nicely.

There are *so* many little details, and so much thought put into nearly every aspect of this system that I'm still discovering niceties every day.

And all the polish and sheen is nothing compared to what's been done under the hood. Alone the fact that all the APIs have been finished and documented, and that developers no longer have to deal with moving targets means that we will - and are - finally seeing the promises come to fruition.

mAxximo · May 7, 2005, 09:54 PM

Tiger �as unfinished as it is� is a noticeably better OS than the rest of the beta-grade releases I've been suffering for the last four years. Feature-wise it might seem like very little has changed from Panther (read �over hyped�) but whatever they did under the hood it really shows when you're using it. I think it's the beginning of a series of improvements that will make OS X worthy of being called a �Mac� OS some day. Hopefully very soon.

mattmarshall · May 7, 2005, 10:23 PM

I don't think Tiger is worth it. It's basically what 10.3 should have been.

So, maybe 10.3 wasn't worth it. I don't know. But going from 10.3 to 10.4 isn't a big change.

Not worth the price.

- matt

mAxximo · May 7, 2005, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by mattmarshall

I don't think Tiger is worth it. It's basically what 10.3 should have been.

Heh, to me it's what 10.0 should have been!

mitchell_pgh · May 7, 2005, 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by mAxximo

Heh, to me it's what 10.0 should have been!

Anyone that says X.? is where X.? should have been obviously can't comprehend the complexity of building a operating system.

I'm sure Apple is holding out on us.

selowitch · May 7, 2005, 11:45 PM

I think ultimately an OS is only as good as the software that runs on it. Let's wait to pass judgment until new, Tiger-optimized apps are out there. Until then, I love the greater speed and stability, I especially like the new Mail.app.

I do wish so many of my old AppleScripts weren't broken under Tiger, though.

chris v · May 8, 2005, 12:06 AM

Three words:

Built. In. Oxford. Dictionary.

Okay-- four words.

bmedina · May 8, 2005, 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by mattmarshall

I don't think Tiger is worth it. It's basically what 10.3 should have been.

By that logic, 10.5 will be what 10.4 should have been, and there will never be a useful upgrade for the rest of eternity.

LeeG · May 8, 2005, 01:24 AM

While I appreciate the responsiveness, and I am anxious for the 'under-the-hood' improvements to bear fruit, I agree with the OP.

My 'experience' has not really changed that much. Spotlight is great, and safari RSS is GREAT, dashboard is cool, and while it IS konfabulator, it doesn't seem to tax my system as much as konfab did.

I think I will stick with Tiger for a while (read: past 10.5), unless they REALLY have some shock-and-awe feature in 10.5, I am just tired of continuing to pay out $129.

That being said, Tiger is really polished and nice, but I really enjoyed Panther too...

L

mattmarshall · May 8, 2005, 02:09 AM

Originally Posted by bmedina

By that logic, 10.5 will be what 10.4 should have been, and there will never be a useful upgrade for the rest of eternity.

Well, this may be true. Let's wait and see.

Chuckit · May 8, 2005, 02:18 AM

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

I also hate to compare OS X to Windows, but what "major" improvements did Windows 95 have over Windows XP?

I think it's safe to say that Windows 95 did not improve on anything from Windows XP.

TimmyDee51 · May 8, 2005, 02:26 AM

If you're not convinced that Tiger is a big upgrade, read this. Tiger not only brings a lot of under the hood improvements, but it lays the foundation for some great advances.

chezpaul · May 8, 2005, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by *****

I don't think Tiger is worth it. It's basically what 10.3 should have been.

So, maybe 10.3 wasn't worth it. I don't know. But going from 10.3 to 10.4 isn't a big change.

Well that was my thought too.

I'm sorry but Spotlight is just like command F if you've been using Quicksilver. Quicksilver does what spotlight does but faster, which is launching apps. I know, I know, spotlight isn't made for that. So what is it for really ? Appart from finding something on your mac ? I'm just asking.

As for Automator, I'm willing to learn. Can someone guide me as to where I'd learn more ?

The people who answered by talking about Windows kinda made my point.
They had nothing else to say...

Dashboard.... Mmmm that's what everyone said about Konfab... lets wait for the cool widgets... Did they ever come ?
I do think Dashboard will work but not because of what it is, more so because of who made it. We Mac people are very... easily sold by Apple...

Hey, I love my mac too. I have 10 running.. but only two have Tiger on them for now. (even though I bought the family packs).

:dragonflypro: · May 8, 2005, 03:39 PM

Tiger on the surface may lack the BLING that lives up to it's hype.

However, having used it for just a few days I can easily see how it's technologies will improve my work day, not make them prettier. And I can't say my clients care about how pretty my OS is.

I normally don't go in for the 'It's an under the hood upgrade"� but it really is in many cases.

In fact, even as useful as DashBoard is, I think it was probably made just to give X a visual upgrade as opposed to the ever so useful Spotlight and Automator.

To dismiss Spotlight as the old "Find" is a mistake. It is the technology, not the implementation. The swift and comprehensive nature of it is the real matter�not that it uses the same keystroke. As an OS tool, it is what FInd used to be, but in apps like Mail it clearly shows its ability and superiority.

It is all about being useful. And that is what Tiger really is. Candy tastes good, but you can't live on it.

T

chezpaul · May 8, 2005, 05:13 PM

One more thing... I get more crashes now.
(Which never happened in Panther)

iPhoto just crashed four times on me. Flash crashed all day yesterday and iTunes also has been crashing since the upgrade. So I'm not too happy about that. I guess that's where my annoyance comes from. I don't mind the candy if you got the stuff holding up in the back.

And yes, I did upgrade everything to Tiger compatibility. I am an upgrade freak for that.

Ahaha.. iChat just crashed on me... I know.. I know.. you guys are going to say it's my system that has a problem...

Chuckit · May 8, 2005, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by chezpaul

I'm sorry but Spotlight is just like command F if you've been using Quicksilver. Quicksilver does what spotlight does but faster, which is launching apps. I know, I know, spotlight isn't made for that. So what is it for really ? Appart from finding something on your mac ?

It isn't for anything apart from finding something on your Mac. It's an advanced document search engine. What else do you want it to do? Make cookies?

mitchell_pgh · May 8, 2005, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by chezpaul

Well that was my thought too.

I'm sorry but Spotlight is just like command F if you've been using Quicksilver. Quicksilver does what spotlight does but faster, which is launching apps. I know, I know, spotlight isn't made for that. So what is it for really ? Appart from finding something on your mac ? I'm just asking.

It sounds like you don't know what spotlight is.

NeilCharter · May 8, 2005, 07:56 PM

I've already used Spotlight to find something that would have taken looking in 3 different places and apps to find. Being able to search the file names, mail content and others with one search is damn useful.

I've already used Dashboard to find places, get a map, track for a UPS package, use the calculator. All of these functions I can do via the web, but it is so much easier and faster doing it this way. Rather than having to find the saved link in safari, I know exactly where these services are in safari.

Of course there is the increase in speed which is always good.

Tiger overhyped - I don't think so. A lot of well thought out improvements IMHO. There are some bugs which 10.4.1 should deal with most.

Ratm · May 8, 2005, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

This thread is redundant.

MacHarbor · May 8, 2005, 08:05 PM

sorry to hear about your crashes chezpaul, but ever since I went from Panther to Tiger, not only has my system jumped up in speed, but ALL of my crashes have stopped. My system used to have a TON of boot problems (usually happened when I REALLY needed to use the system).

I really enjoy Spotlight. For launching apps it is slower than Quicksilver, but I am using it for so much more. I hated having to search out plist files, and now it will find them even if I am not looking for those specifically.

Dashboard, while it has a security flaw as revealed in another post on this board, I have been using like mad. I also use Konfabulator in conjunction with it, since both programs will have their own widgest that make them distinct from eachother.

hope you get your crashing problems cleared up.

striker100 · May 8, 2005, 08:57 PM

Forget Spotlight, Dashboard or any other app. Just the speed increase alone on my Dual 2.0GHz G5 makes Tiger worth it. Now saying that I like Spotlight and I've already used Dashboard many times.

Xtraz · May 8, 2005, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by striker100

Forget Spotlight, Dashboard or any other app. Just the speed increase alone on my Dual 2.0GHz G5 makes Tiger worth it. Now saying that I like Spotlight and I've already used Dashboard many times.

I also have a Dual 2Ghz G5, but I'm not seeing the speed increase that you mention. What specifically do you find faster?

Booting up is a little faster, but opening apps and general usage of the computer seem unaffected. UI response does seem a slight bit faster, but one area that slowed down a lot is scrolling through a window with big (max-sized) icons. That used to be silky smooth but now its jumpy.

Dale Sorel · May 8, 2005, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by chezpaul

Spotlight ? .. I used COM+F very well thank you...

Uh, and did that look inside every single document on your HD... I didn't think so

chezpaul · May 8, 2005, 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by Dale Sorel

Uh, and did that look inside every single document on your HD... I didn't think so

Okay... but how many times do you have ot look into every doc on your system ???? And I don't use Mail and quite frankly wouldn't know where to start if looking for text in an email. But hey... whatever you guys say...

As for the speed boost... I didn't notice it either... Only in Safari did I notice a little speed increase... I think....

As for the crashes, I'm not the only one... Here

Once again, I'm not saing it sucks... All Mac OS upgrade is cool. i'm just saying over hyped...

THE MAC GOD · May 9, 2005, 02:14 AM

Most of those crashes go away or you don't experience them with a wipe of the HD and a clean install... that's why I partition...

CaptainHaddock · May 9, 2005, 05:37 AM

Perhaps for someone who doesn't get much use out of Spotlight or Dashboard yet, Tiger is over-hyped.

But in the bigger picture, the release of the world's most advanced desktop operating system - sporting several significant new technologies - is a major event. You can't play down the significance of Tiger and its new system-level features. I've had my share of Tiger problems (and filed 8 bug reports), but just wait till the stability and usability issues improve.

Randman · May 9, 2005, 05:47 AM

Tiger is faster than Panther. Even at 4.0, I've had zero problems with it on two different Macs. I'm less impressed by Spotlight and Automator than some of the less obvious changes, Mail becoming more robust, Safari improving, tighter integration, etc.

Over-hyped? Underhyped, imo.

msuper69 · May 9, 2005, 07:40 AM

Geez, Tiger over-hyped?

That's a good one. Spotlight alone makes it worth it. I used to use the Google search bar in Safari more than any other OS X feature. That has now been supplanted by Spotlight. I've always wanted a way to find those files that I couldn't easily locate in previous versions. Now it's a breeze.

Grrr · May 9, 2005, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

This thread is redundant.

Like 2600 or so of your posts then?

As for 10.4 being hype.. I basically agree. 10.4 isnt bad at all, don't get me wrong. But its not the radical departure from 10.3 that Apple would have liked us to believe, is it.. Its just 10.3 with added gimmicks/bloat for the most part.
And 64 bit OS or not, It didn't mutate my G5 into a rip roaring speed demon. So I fail to see what the fuss is about.
Good OS, as was 10.3, but somewhat of an anticlimax.

SMacTech · May 9, 2005, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by chezpaul

Is it just me or has my OS X experience after installing Tiger not changed one bit ?
I mean come on, really... I've had a mac since OS 7 and this upgrade is really crap...

What did we get ?
Spotlight ? .. I used COM+F very well thank you, I use Quicksilver very well thank you.
Dashboard ?.. I tried konfabulator and realized it wasn't for me. Same with Dashboard. (it's really the same program)
What else am I missing... ??
Ichat on steroids ??? Try to find three people who will have all the requirements for a video conf, I know I can't. i'm still using ichat the same way then in Panther.

Really, this is a nice update, sure cause we all love our macs but it could have been a $20 update at the most. But not all this hype... it's all hype. !!!
Come on.. you can say it....

It is hard to take you seriously, when you say it is a really crap upgrade and then you say it is a really nice update.

I don't know what you had expected to be so diverse from Panther.

No one forced you to leave Panther and your 3rd party products for Tiger.

theolein · May 9, 2005, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by chris v

Three words:

Built. In. Oxford. Dictionary.

Okay-- four words.

Don't mean to contradict you there, Chris, but Google has been my favourite place to search for word definitions, and usually, just typing the word into Safari has done the job.

But I'll see when I eventually get Tiger.

Randman · May 9, 2005, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by theolein

I'll see when I eventually get Tiger.

Exactly. Get to Tiger, THEN report back.

Stradlater · May 9, 2005, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

This thread is redundant.

^^^

mpancha · May 9, 2005, 11:13 AM

I have a few mixed feelings about some of the posts here, but anyways....

Igot tiger free with my iBook, so the cost wasn't a factor for me. I jumped from a 600mhz G3 to a 1.2ghz G4, I jumped from 640mb RAM to 768MB RAm... so a speed increase, well obviously I'm going to see one from hardware alone.

Spotlight is nice, it does what Google Desktop did for me on the PC. yes I realize that spotlight is built in and blah blah blah, but for my personal use, on a PC I've got google desktop that does everything spotlight does. I'm sure as software comes out that utilizes spotlights functions Spotlight will become much more impressive. But for now, its search, its that cut and dry.

Dashboard, I use a few of the widgets, but if they weren't there, I wouldn't even notice. And to be completely honest, no matter what I read and what justifications Apple has, I beleive its a complete hijacking of Konfabulator. I would rather have had Konfabulator installed on my mac as a seperate program just on the principle of the thing.

iChat AV... meh, maybe someday Ill use it, but for now, its a built-in AIM client and nothing more for my uses.

Mail is nice, but I use gmail and have no reason to go through configuring all the filters I already have in gmail over to the mac.

its nice having RSS built-in to Safari, kudos to Apple on that one.

I realize that all the major features are under the hood, but that doesn't really justify why I should feel Tiger is a godsend. Its the latest OS from Apple, its nice, but I dont know what more to say about it beyond that.

I'm a light user, the point behind the iBook was so I could sit outside and do work, rather than be chained inside of the house. It serves its purpose well.

I can't compare Tiger to WindowsXP or any other Windows OS past, present or future because they are not the same and I dont know why anyone else would have since that isn't the point of this thread. I dont remember who said it earlier, but those who brought up comparisons to Windows, obviously didn't really have anything to contribute to the discussion, and I completely agree with that.

There was a comment about how the excellence of Tiger is a hard sell to a novice user. hmm, well, we all start somewhere. That and the Windows comments were the only closed minded responses I saw. How about giving us a few thoughts on things we could do that would show us some of the niceness of Tiger?

Stradlater · May 9, 2005, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by theolein

Don't mean to contradict you there, Chris, but Google has been my favourite place to search for word definitions, and usually, just typing the word into Safari has done the job.

But I'll see when I eventually get Tiger.

Sorry, but the built-in Oxford Dictionary is much more intuitive.

Stradlater · May 9, 2005, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by Grrr

Like 2600 or so of your posts then?

This thread is redundant because there are already some Tiger-is-hype threads out there. This thread is just going to be a rehash of arguments. Some of them have been dismissed already.

Like this one:

As for 10.4 being hype.. I basically agree. 10.4 isnt bad at all, don't get me wrong. But its not the radical departure from 10.3 that Apple would have liked us to believe, is it.. Its just 10.3 with added gimmicks/bloat for the most part.
And 64 bit OS or not, It didn't mutate my G5 into a rip roaring speed demon. So I fail to see what the fuss is about.
Good OS, as was 10.3, but somewhat of an anticlimax.

Learn what "bloat" means. Learn just what is new other than those easily-seen new features that you feel are gimmicky.