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tbabb · Aug 15, 2006, 04:06 PM

What are the sound input /output options for hard core Mac gamers considering switching from a G5 to Mac Pro?

I assume the M-Audio Revolution 7.1 or 5.1 cards are NOT going to work.

slpdLoad · Aug 15, 2006, 06:08 PM

You could get an external sound card.

baw · Aug 15, 2006, 06:11 PM

What is the problem with the on-board sound?

tbabb · Aug 15, 2006, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by baw

What is the problem with the on-board sound?

The mac sound input option requires a powered source does it not? I'd like to keep using my existing headset.

External usb microphone options (Imic) steal cpu cycles to do the Analog > Digital processing and don't off-load the sound A/D processing like the M-Audio card would. AFAIK

baw · Aug 15, 2006, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by tbabb

External usb microphone options (Imic) steal cpu cycles to do the Analog > Digital processing and don't off-load the sound A/D processing like the M-Audio card would. AFAIK

Yeah, I hope that new Intel chip can handle it.

Leonard · Aug 16, 2006, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by tbabb

External usb microphone options (Imic) steal cpu cycles to do the Analog > Digital processing and don't off-load the sound A/D processing like the M-Audio card would. AFAIK

All sound goes through the CPU on a Mac, unlike a PC, a soundcard does not off-load that. A soundcard will give you extra features such as EAX support, surround sound analog outputs (3 color coded ports), etc.

Oozinator · Aug 17, 2006, 09:54 AM

Are you sure about that? I know back in q3 days an external card would allow faster FPS...... because the cpu wasn't doing the work.

Leonard · Aug 17, 2006, 12:23 PM

Read a2daj's posts in these threads:

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...rd+offload+cpu

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...rd+offload+cpu

Oozinator · Aug 17, 2006, 11:01 PM

um.... he said htey didn't, some other guy with a sound card says they do. I don't really think that qualifies as proof at all.

Especially since in g4 systems, adding a sound card DID increase performance in quake 3. AND it was mentioned in MacAddict.

a2daj · Aug 18, 2006, 01:03 PM

MacAddict isn't exactly a definitive source of technical information. At the same time, I won't claim I'm a definitive source either, but I do more homework than just looking at someone else's benchmark claims. I have a Revolution 7.1. I've had one in a G4 since they first came out, and I have the same one in a G5. I saw no performance increase with the card in place. Mac OS X does not offload sound processing to the Revolution 7.1. It has no audio processor to which it can off load sound processing. This is the same for when you plug the card into a Windows machine. Because of this on Windows machines, there's more driver overhead with the card, and games have actually shown a decrease in benchmarks. On the OS X side, the OS only sees the Revolution 7.1, and other audio PCI cards as outputs with a certain number of channels. The audio is processed by the CPU before getting to the hardware. That's just the way OS X works. It's been covered before in the CoreAudio developer list and from what I've seen, nothing has changed since the last time I posted in those linked threads. The only major audio update that pertains to gaming that I've seen is OpenAL, and that's just another API layer that sits on top of the CoreAudio API.

As for the original question regarding SoundCard options for Mac Pro gamers... If you can get a hold of a now discontinued M-Audio Sonica Theater you can try one of those. I've heard of folks having success with those and their Intel Macs. Others have had success using some Creative Labs USB audio devices but I don't recall which ones. And only basic support is enabled. None of the special doodads work. Lately, I've been trying out a Griffin Technology FireWave. It wasn't very easy to find in stock, but apparently Amazon had some in stock when I went looking. That's where I ordered mine. Griffin had it on preorder at their website forever (from Jan 2005 to at least June 2006) until I just checked. There have been records of people using the device since Feb 2006 but not much. It worked fine with my MacBook Pro, but had some issues with the Dolby related features on my G5. It had to do with the FireWire cable that came with the FireWave. I replaced it with a known good cable and the FireWave has worked fine since except for some occasional weird sound effects that occur at any time. it's like the device picks up some signal and tries to output it. That happens with both the G5 and MBP.

Kevlar · Aug 19, 2006, 12:27 AM

The Sonica Theater is discontinued? damn... I was kinda waiting for some new drivers for my Intel iMac. Any more info on the Firewave? Does it do any thing for WoW or UT2004?

a2daj · Aug 19, 2006, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by Kevlar

The Sonica Theater is discontinued? damn... I was kinda waiting for some new drivers for my Intel iMac. Any more info on the Firewave? Does it do any thing for WoW or UT2004?

Yes, it does 5.1 for WoW and UT2004. CoreAudio sees it as a device with 6 channels and will output accordingly. Plus it's a dolby decoder so it will convert encoded audio to 5.1 for the analog speakers you have connected. It does prologic II as well. it doesn't do passthrough audio though.

Kevlar · Aug 20, 2006, 12:50 PM

Interesting.... I think I'll order one this week and see how it works. Thanks A2daj!

Scooterboy · Aug 22, 2006, 12:50 AM

Originally Posted by a2daj

Yes, it does 5.1 for WoW and UT2004. CoreAudio sees it as a device with 6 channels and will output accordingly. Plus it's a dolby decoder so it will convert encoded audio to 5.1 for the analog speakers you have connected. It does prologic II as well. it doesn't do passthrough audio though.

It doesn't decode 5.1 audio for analog speakers. It does pass through encoded audio (from DVD Player) to digital speakers to decode. However, VLC does decode 5.1 audio and Core Audio and the Sonica Theater take care of routing sound to the correct speaker in an analog system, such as the Klipsch 5.1.
The Sonica Theater also does a very good job of upmixing a 2.0 mix to 5.1 Surround (for those DVD's lacking real 5.1 surround. It uses Circle Surround II for this.

I was chuffed when they announced support for OpenAL, but I have yet to buy an OpenAL game.

Bummer it's discontinued... I hope support continues. Maybe they have a FireWire replacement in the pipes.

a2daj · Aug 22, 2006, 03:30 AM

Kevlar was asking about the FireWave, not the Sonica Theater. I have a FireWave, it DOES decode 5.1 audio.

n8236 · Aug 22, 2006, 04:03 AM

This is a bit off the original topic, but I recently saw a benchmark of a high-end Dell laptop and they were doing frames per second benchmarks with and w/o sound, and the results were astounding.

I have a mbp and i do game seriously sometimes and wish to have the best fps possible, will getting an external sound car for it help increase fps?

Leonard · Aug 23, 2006, 10:50 AM

A soundcard wouldn't help.

The best you can do, on a laptop, is lower the screen resolution and lower the game graphics options. You can't upgrade the graphics card which would give you the best improvement in FPS.

Horsepoo!!! · Aug 28, 2006, 09:50 AM

Sound cards, physics cards...these all sound interesting at first until you realize a game can be threaded to use general purpose CPUs (for example...the 4 CPUs in a Quad G5 or a Quad Xeon. Sound can definitely be offloaded to a seperate thread and is in many games now. And starting soon, OpenGL will easily be offloaded to seperate threads.

You gotta be really hard core to want a sound card or physics card. There is very little benefit (if any at all in some instances) to be gained from them if you have a dual-processor or quad-processor machine...the processor on those cards may be more efficient than the general purpose CPU but who cares if the general purpose CPU is fast enough and if they're idling.

Sound cards were a good idea 6-20 years ago...not anymore though. There may be an advantage to be gained from a physics cards but I'd expect the physics in games to become radically more complex and realistic if they're going to push these cards.

Leonard · Aug 28, 2006, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

Sound cards, physics cards...these all sound interesting at first until you realize a game can be threaded to use general purpose CPUs (for example...the 4 CPUs in a Quad G5 or a Quad Xeon. Sound can definitely be offloaded to a seperate thread and is in many games now. And starting soon, OpenGL will easily be offloaded to seperate threads.

That's true. UT2004 does this.

Can't wait till UT2007 comes out which will be running the Unreal 3 engine which has support for multiple processors and multiple cores.

Prince Zordar · Sep 24, 2006, 11:03 AM

So, do I understand correctly... on my MacBook Pro, the digital output plug on the left side is only good for DVD and music output (i.e. stuff that's already been encoded) and that requires a TOSLink adapter and external receiver. If I want Dolby x.1 sound in World of Warcraft or some other game, I have to go with an external device such as the FireWave?

If I plunk down the plastic for a FireWave, wiill it also handle DVD audio output? I already have a set of Cambridge Soundworks THX 6.1 speakers that used to be connected to an Alienware with a Sound Blaster (they use three wires for input.) Will these work with a FireWave? I'm not going to be creating content, just listening to movies and such. Is the FireWave the best solution? (I'm on a college student budget here.)

-Z

a2daj · Sep 25, 2006, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Prince Zordar

So, do I understand correctly... on my MacBook Pro, the digital output plug on the left side is only good for DVD and music output (i.e. stuff that's already been encoded) and that requires a TOSLink adapter and external receiver. If I want Dolby x.1 sound in World of Warcraft or some other game, I have to go with an external device such as the FireWave?

Yup, at least until some internal PCI-E multichannel audio cards come out for Macs.

If I plunk down the plastic for a FireWave, wiill it also handle DVD audio output? I already have a set of Cambridge Soundworks THX 6.1 speakers that used to be connected to an Alienware with a Sound Blaster (they use three wires for input.) Will these work with a FireWave?

The FireWave will decode DVD audio. I haven't tried any DTS audio streams, but I know the Dolby decoding works. It only handles 5.1 audio. I think your rear center will be lost.

I'm not going to be creating content, just listening to movies and such. Is the FireWave the best solution? (I'm on a college student budget here.)

-Z

At the moment, yes. It's the only currently manufactured consumer level multichannel device with OS X and Intel support. However, there are some PC USB Audio devices that some users have used with Mac OS X's native USB audio drivers that have worked. I think those would include some of the Creative Labs external audio devices. I haven't tried any myself. I think some folks at the ArsTechnica forums have tried different non-Mac specific devices but I don't have a link handy.

BootCamp_Gmr · Oct 4, 2006, 10:01 PM

Ok, so let me get this crystal clear. I have a mac pro and the Logitech Z-680 (Surround - 5.1 > Logitech� Z-680) speaker system. It has that base station that has a built-in hardware decoder. I'm using an digital optical cable to go from my mac pro to the decoder box thing. Am I really getting surround sound? In the effects menu I can select stereo, stereox2, Dolby PL2 Music/Movie but these are the exact same things I could get through my analog connection. Is the optical out port in the mac pro unable to support real surround sound or will the decoder box thing do all of it for me as long as I select the PL2. There should be a selection in the effects section for Dolby Digital but there isn't. Whats going on? Do I need to buy the FireWave or an M-audio Revolution card or what?

Thanks for the help!