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Police discrimination, misconduct, Ferguson, MO, the Roman Legion, and now math??? (Page 12)
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The Final Dakar  (op)
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Oct 20, 2014, 09:52 AM
 
*polite cough*
The White-On-White Violence At Pumpkin Riot Versus Ferguson: 'People Just Got Too Drunk'
One Perfect Tweet Calls Out the Hypocrisy of How the Media Talks About Black Violence - Mic

Don't these people have jobs? Where are the white fathers? What will end this corrosive culture of violence?!
When will the leaders of the white community step forward and condemn the actions of #keenepumpkinfest?
     
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Oct 20, 2014, 01:17 PM
 
^^^^

Reminds me of this one during Hurricane Katrina ....



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Oct 20, 2014, 01:19 PM
 
I think it's quite telling that a group of white dudes leaving the STL Rams game started yelling "USA! USA!" at a group of Ferguson protestors while this was going on ...



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Oct 20, 2014, 08:30 PM
 
     
OAW
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Oct 20, 2014, 09:01 PM
 
^^^^

Not surprising. Most of the witnesses said Wilson initially shot Brown from inside the car. And that's when he took off running. Speaking of that, here's a contemporaneous witness account posted to social media that corroborates what Dorian Johnson said happened ....

MichaelBrown shooting: 'He held that boy and fired out of the car. He held his arm and fired' | YouTube.com

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The Final Dakar  (op)
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Oct 21, 2014, 08:48 AM
 
While I'm mildly surprised, it doesn't really affect the issue everyone has with the encounter – the conclusion. Unless you believe touching an officers gun is an automatic death sentence to be carried out at their leisure.
( Last edited by The Final Dakar; Oct 21, 2014 at 12:51 PM. Reason: Edited for freshness)
     
subego
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Oct 21, 2014, 12:41 PM
 
Going for someone else's gun, cop or not, is an immediate death sentence.

It is fully reasonable to assume someone trying to take your gun intends to use it on you, therefore you are allowed to protect yourself with deadly force.
     
subego
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Oct 21, 2014, 12:42 PM
 
To be clear. If the grabber fails, and runs away, you can't hunt them down.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Oct 21, 2014, 12:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
To be clear. If the grabber fails, and runs away, you can't hunt them down.
I think that's a bit of a gray area. I believe I've seen something about being able to kill if the person is likely to be a danger to the police or others.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Oct 21, 2014, 12:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
To be clear. If the grabber fails, and runs away, you can't hunt them down.
That's my point.

I think that's a bit of a legal gray area. I believe I've seen something about being able to kill if the person is likely to be a danger to the police or others.
     
subego
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Oct 21, 2014, 12:57 PM
 
With that, if you're a civilian, what really matters is if you can sell it to a jury. Far more important than the actual truth.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Oct 21, 2014, 01:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
With that, if you're a civilian, what really matters is if you can sell it to a jury. Far more important than the actual truth.
This is where the outrage is building. This may never get to a jury. And it really should.
     
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Oct 21, 2014, 01:01 PM
 
For the record, the police always claim that a suspect tried to go for his gun. That's the "go to" defense whenever there is a questionable shooting. From the beginning we have several witnesses who have stated that Wilson grabbed Brown from inside the car and shot him. The forensic evidence leaked in no way refutes any of that. Again, what Wilson is asking us to believe is that Brown attacked him and went for his gun for no reason ... and then after being shot he turned around and came back for more. Despite 8 or 9 witnesses who have stated that Wilson had no reason to shoot Brown when he was outside the car.

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Oct 21, 2014, 01:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
This is where the outrage is building. This may never get to a jury. And it really should.
Exactly. Wilson should have been charged a long time ago. Grand juries are used for complex matters. Racketeering, tax evasion, conspiracy, etc. Here we have an unarmed kid shot dead, no question on who did the shooting, and a string of witnesses who saw it go down in broad daylight. Not a single one whom supports Wilson's version of events. The man should face charges. Period. It was sent to the grand jury to provide cover for a county prosecutor who has a history of failing to charge white police officers who kill unarmed black men. Again, this dude refused to even recommend a charge to the grand jury which is unprecedented in a situation like this. But as I said much earlier in the thread ... the stage is being set for no charges to be filed. And that will be a slap in the face to not only all the witnesses but to the community at large.

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The Final Dakar  (op)
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Oct 21, 2014, 01:11 PM
 
That's my issue. Witness testimony can be unreliable, but seven or so people are giving accounts that cast doubt on the action being justified is worthy of consideration. A jury trial seems like the fair, if not prudent, thing to do.
     
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Oct 21, 2014, 02:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Going for someone else's gun, cop or not, is an immediate death sentence.

It is fully reasonable to assume someone trying to take your gun intends to use it on you, therefore you are allowed to protect yourself with deadly force.
Absolutely. If someone tries to grab my firearm they're probably going to get killed.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
To be clear. If the grabber fails, and runs away, you can't hunt them down.
Eehhh... that's very situational, a reasonable line of thinking is, if someone tries to grab a cop's gun and then attempts to flee the scene, they've proven to be an extreme danger to the public.
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Oct 21, 2014, 02:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Eehhh... that's very situational, a reasonable line of thinking is, if someone tries to grab a cop's gun and then attempts to flee the scene, they've proven to be an extreme danger to the public.
And so should be apprehended, with deadly force used only in self-defense and as a last resort.
     
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Oct 21, 2014, 02:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
That's my issue. Witness testimony can be unreliable, but seven or so people are giving accounts that cast doubt on the action being justified is worthy of consideration. A jury trial seems like the fair, if not prudent, thing to do.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Oct 21, 2014, 02:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Eehhh... that's very situational, a reasonable line of thinking is, if someone tries to grab a cop's gun and then attempts to flee the scene, they've proven to be an extreme danger to the public.
Like I said, should touching a gun be a death sentence with no end date? Some people answer yes. I'm not as convinced.

Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
And so should be apprehended, with deadly force used only in self-defense and as a last resort.
Exactly.

I sympathize that caps have a difficult job, but it feels like any provocation is being used to justify varying levels of excessive force up to and including death.
     
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Oct 21, 2014, 06:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
That's my issue. Witness testimony can be unreliable, but seven or so people are giving accounts that cast doubt on the action being justified is worthy of consideration. A jury trial seems like the fair, if not prudent, thing to do.
Especially the fact that they don't all tell exactly the same story makes me more confident in them: there is no conspiracy to fabricate evidence here.
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Oct 21, 2014, 08:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Eehhh... that's very situational, a reasonable line of thinking is, if someone tries to grab a cop's gun and then attempts to flee the scene, they've proven to be an extreme danger to the public.
I'd want it, in writing, the DA had my back on that one, otherwise, unarmed and fleeing is an guaranteed recipe to stop me from shooting you.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Oct 22, 2014, 08:50 AM
 
Autopsy report dropped. Should stir things up again. Guys, did you know the guy had marijuana in his system? This changes everything.
     
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Oct 22, 2014, 11:21 AM
 
If the autopsy does conclude that Wilson's story is accurate, I wonder who was involved in corrupting the witness pool. Did it come from a single source or was it simple word of mouth (like playing the game "telephone")?
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Oct 22, 2014, 11:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Autopsy report dropped. Should stir things up again. Guys, did you know the guy had marijuana in his system? This changes everything.
The private autopsy done weeks ago at the request of his family revealed that Mike Brown had marijuana in his system. This "official" autopsy largely agrees with the private autopsy that was performed. The main difference is that the private autopsy din't show any signs of struggle on Mike Brown's person whereas the "official" autopsy indicates some type of altercation by the car. But despite the sensationalized headlines that really doesn't change anything since the witnesses all said there was a struggle by the car.

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The Final Dakar  (op)
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Oct 22, 2014, 11:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
The private autopsy done weeks ago at the request of his family revealed that Mike Brown had marijuana in his system.
I probably knew that and forgot then. This has been dragging on for over two months.


Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
If the autopsy does conclude that Wilson's story is accurate, I wonder who was involved in corrupting the witness pool.
That's a rather strange conclusion.
     
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Oct 22, 2014, 03:17 PM
 
The STL County Police Commissioner Board was scheduled to have a public meeting today. And they abruptly canceled it when #Ferguson protestors showed up demanding to be heard. Imagine that.

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Oct 22, 2014, 03:38 PM
 
Sounds like Hong Kong.
     
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Oct 22, 2014, 03:49 PM
 
And it get's worse. For 75 days the STL County PD wouldn't release any info on Wilson's side of the story claiming it would "taint" the process. Now starting today we get a flood of leaks from the supposedly "secret" grand jury process ... either from grand jury members themselves or STL County Prosecutor McCulloch's office ... totally customized to support Wilson's supposed "account". Which again he's never publicly stated. Bottom line here? Every witness who's come out and publicly told their story or posted on social media contemporaneously has said that Wilson killed Brown as he was surrendering to him. Every so-called witness being mentioned as backing Wilson's still-not-made-public "account" is an anonymous witness being referenced by an anonymous source. And even then it's being described as testimony that "largely supports Wilson's account of events" ... which can mean anything. That is quite telling in and of itself.

Evidence supports officer’s account of shooting in Ferguson | WashingtonPost.com

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PS: Even the headlines are misleading because they give an impression that is simply not reflected by the actual content of the article. This one here makes it seem like Wilson's story is checking out. But all it's saying is that the forensic evidence supports that there was a struggle by the car that resulted in Brown being shot. Which for the record, was NEVER in dispute as Dorian Johnson and several other witnesses said that from the very beginning. Nowhere has the forensic evidence supported anything Wilson has supposedly said about the events that took place AFTER he got out of his car.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Oct 22, 2014, 03:52 PM
 
A lot of people are suspicious about whether the police waited to get Wilson's statement to allowing him to tailor his story the evidence. I am somewhat curious as to when he gave his initial report and if its on the record. My guess is that info won't come out until the process is finished or heads to trial.

And yes, they are manipulating the public via release of info. That's how the robbery video came out.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Oct 22, 2014, 03:55 PM
 


YES!
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Oct 22, 2014, 03:58 PM
 
Evidence supports officer’s account of shooting in Ferguson - The Washington Post

Seven or eight African American eyewitnesses have provided testimony consistent with Wilson’s account, but none of them have spoken publicly out of fear for their safety, The Washington Post’s sources said.
Are these new witnesses or witnesses have changed their accounts or is someone misrepresenting their testimony?
     
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Oct 22, 2014, 04:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
A lot of people are suspicious about whether the police waited to get Wilson's statement to allowing him to tailor his story the evidence. I am somewhat curious as to when he gave his initial report and if its on the record. My guess is that info won't come out until the process is finished or heads to trial.

And yes, they are manipulating the public via release of info. That's how the robbery video came out.
Wilson never filed an Incident Report about the shooting. At all.

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Oct 22, 2014, 04:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Evidence supports officer’s account of shooting in Ferguson - The Washington Post



Are these new witnesses or witnesses have changed their accounts or is someone misrepresenting their testimony?
My point exactly. It's not like STL County Prosecutor McCulloch hasn't been caught misrepresenting grand jury testimony to the public before.

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The Final Dakar  (op)
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Oct 22, 2014, 04:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Wilson never filed an Incident Report about the shooting. At all.
Still, somebody had to do an interview sooner or later. Perhaps STL County since they took over the investigation.
     
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Oct 22, 2014, 04:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Still, somebody had to do an interview sooner or later. Perhaps STL County since they took over the investigation.
STL County PD is conducting the investigation. The Justice Department as well. My point is that there is no official written account of his story in his own words that was produced contemporaneously that can be compared to the evidence. And that was done very deliberately in violation of Ferguson PD policy.

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Oct 22, 2014, 04:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
STL County PD is conducting the investigation. The Justice Department as well. My point is that there is no official written account of his story in his own words that was produced contemporaneously that can be compared to the evidence. And that was done very deliberately in violation of Ferguson PD policy.

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It might be in the STL county incident report which I believe is currently redacted.
     
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Oct 22, 2014, 04:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post


YES!
And this is to provide cover for those inclined to not indict Wilson. Why would someone who has just been shot by a cop ... take off running ... and then seconds later turn around and charge the same cop who had shot him? Because he was "hallucinating" on weed!

Never mind that ALL the witnesses who have come forward publicly have stated unequivocally that this never happened.

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Oct 23, 2014, 07:37 AM
 
And many tests have shown that witnesses generally don't recount what actually happened but what they thought they saw. It even gets worse if the witness took a nap before repeating the event as they saw it.
     
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Oct 23, 2014, 08:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
And many tests have shown that witnesses generally don't recount what actually happened but what they thought they saw. It even gets worse if the witness took a nap before repeating the event as they saw it.
We should do a thorough investigation into whether these guys were napping.
     
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Oct 23, 2014, 01:11 PM
 
Maybe it would be a good idea to have the officer and all the witnesses take lie detector tests with an independent source.
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Oct 23, 2014, 01:33 PM
 
As I indicated much earlier in the thread, as soon as STL County Prosecutor took this to a grand jury instead of a probable cause hearing the fix was in. But in light of these very "selective" leaks from anonymous sources which only mention what Wilson said and that the testimony of a number of black witnesses "largely supports" it ... then even Stevie Wonder can see the games that are being played. A couple of things we need to keep in mind ...

#1 - Wilson's "leaked" testimony primarily focuses on the altercation with Brown when he was still in his vehicle. And how Brown supposedly went for his gun. The only thing mentioned about AFTER he exited the vehicle was his claim that Brown stopped fleeing, turned around and "kept coming at him" as he was shooting him. Absolutely nothing is mentioned about anything that transpired in the time between Wilson exiting his vehicle and shooting Brown outside of it ... which is the crux of the matter.

#2 - The testimony of the black witnesses that curiously has NOT been leaked ... which supposedly "largely supports" Wilson's story that has been leaked ... is in all likelihood the corroboration of the fact that there was an initial struggle by the car. Which is 95+% of Wilson's leaked testimony and which has never been in dispute by anyone.

But of course, the timing and selective nature of the leaks is designed to give the impression to the public that there are a bunch of black witnesses who support everything that Wilson has to say. Which is not necessarily the case. And if I had to bet money on it, is not even likely the case. And the fact that the STL County Prosecutor's office won't even bother to investigate these these leaks coming out of the the grand jury process it controls speaks volumes in and of itself.

Benjamin Crump, the attorney for Brown’s family, said he was not surprised by the autopsy report’s details.

“Several independent witnesses indicated there was a brief altercation between Michael Brown and Officer Wilson at the patrol car,” Crump said in a statement. “What we want to know is why Officer Wilson shot Michael Brown multiple times and killed him even though he was more than 20 feet away from his patrol car; this is the crux of the matter!”


But other activists and St. Louis-area officials saw the leaks as the crux of the matter, deriding news outlets for reporting the leaked information and investigative officials for leaking it.

“A non-transparent grand jury process and a leaky investigation is not the way the outcome of this important case should be determined,” tweeted St. Louis Alderman Antonio French, who participated in many Ferguson demonstrations. “These leaks do not help restore people's faith in the justice system. Quite the opposite.”

St. Louis County prosecutor’s office spokesman Ed Magee said his office probably wouldn’t investigate the leaks because prosecutors could not force journalists to divulge their sources and because the information could be coming from federal officials in Washington.

“There’s really nothing to investigate,” Magee said Wednesday. “We don’t have control over anybody leaking anything. All we can control is people in our office and the grand jury, and it’s not coming from us or the grand jury.”

He said that “you can tell by the information they have” that the leaks are not coming from the grand jury or the prosecutor’s office, citing reports using sourcing language such as “officials briefed on the investigation.”

“We’ve got a joint investigation going on [with federal officials], so we’re sharing information and we’ve been sharing information the whole time,” Magee said.

A Justice Department spokeswoman responded in a statement to the Los Angeles Times: “The department considers the selective release of information in this investigation to be irresponsible and highly troubling. Since the release of the convenience-store footage, there seems to be an inappropriate effort to influence public opinion about this case.”

The reference to the convenience-store footage alluded to a video released by Ferguson police on the same day they disclosed Wilson's identity. The video showed Brown apparently intimidating a store clerk shortly before the shooting.

Chris King, managing editor of the St. Louis American, a newspaper for black audiences, said law enforcement officials had offered him the leaks, saying “they had been briefed on the evidence and it didn't look good for Michael Brown supporters,” but he declined and decried “third-party hearsay” in an editorial for the paper.

“Tensions are so high that preparations for riots, if Wilson walks free, are discussed in sober terms in local and national media and on street corners,” the American said in its editorial. “The editors of these powerful publications have shown a lapse in judgment and ethics that is not only shameful, but actually dangerous. We declare a mistrial in the court of public opinion.”

The paper asked that Officer Wilson be charged with second-degree murder and that his case be taken to trial.
Justice Department condemns Ferguson leaks as effort to influence opinion - LA Times

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Oct 23, 2014, 01:40 PM
 
When police officer Darren Wilson shot and killed Ferguson, Missouri teenager Mike Brown on August 9, Brown's family and the surrounding community repeatedly begged for answers as to how and why this happened in the form of a basic police report. Fifty days later, the police announced they wouldn't release a report at all.

For 75 straight days since the murder of Mike Brown, the St. Louis County medical examiner refused to release his full autopsy report, the police refused to release any police official reports from Darren Wilson, and it was always said that this was done for the integrity of the case.

Suddenly, though, in the past few days, the integrity of the case has all but been thrown out of the window and sensitive leaks are being reported from the grand jury in the Darren Wilson case, from the St. Louis County medical examiner's office, and from the federal government in their own investigation.

Whatever confidence protestors had left that anything resembling justice for Mike Brown would happen, has been lost.
What follows is a growing account of the leaks from this week. Protestors and police chiefs alike believe it's all being done to prepare people for a announcement coming soon that Darren Wilson will not be indicted.

Follow below the fold for more.

Friday, October 17: The New York Times confirms key details from the case from a source within the federal investigation.

Tuesday, October 21: Mike Brown's autopsy report from the St. Louis County medical examiner is leaked to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. In spite of the red stamp on the corner of each page declaring that it's not for secondary use, it is now being widely read and debated by every concerned pundit.

Wednesday, October 22: The Washington Post reports that seven or eight African-American eyewitnesses confirm Darren Wilson's account of events. Wesley Lowery of the Washington Post confirmed to me today that these details were learned through a trusted source inside of the grand jury proceedings.

Wednesday, October 22: Chris King, managing editor of the St. Louis American confirms that a federal official and a local police officer offered him the above leaks.

Less angry at what the leaks reveal than increasingly frustrated at the leaks themselves, local protestors are suspicious of the of true purpose of the leaks, which all appear one-sided, pointing to an attempt to smear Brown and back up Wilson's account.

For instance, no information has been released about testimony from two construction workers who say they saw Brown surrender with his hands up.

No information has been released about the grand jury testimony of Tiffany Mitchell, who reported seeing the entire scene unfold from just feet away.

Ultimately, these don't appear to be accidental leaks at all, but deliberately timed releases with a biased motive in mind.
Week of leaks: Grand jury, medical examiner, and federal government leak Darren Wilson case details

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Oct 23, 2014, 02:13 PM
 
Why would any DA spill the beans on all evidence regarding a case as soon they receive it? I'm not aware of any office that does that. People seem to be treating the case and the investigation itself as if it's a forum debate and that's absolutely not how it works, at all. The media hasn't been given all the evidence-related facts and we've not heard all the witness testimonies*, one side has been told repeatedly, ad nauseam, because it's what is more readily available (AND because it stirs the pot and makes for more "gripping" news).



(*I don't blame people fearing for their safety, if it's revealed that their account of events doesn't fit with what other people have been shouting to the media.)
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Oct 23, 2014, 03:53 PM
 
My point here is that the entire process has been rigged to favor Officer Darren Wilson from Day 1. From Darren Wilson never filing a police report. To Prosecutor Bob McCulloch taking the case to a grand jury instead of a probable cause hearing. Even STL County Police Chief Belmar telling a bald-faced lie at the initial press conference about how far Mike Brown was from Darren Wilson's police SUV when he was shot and killed.

On August 10, 2014, St. Louis County Police Chief John Belmar held his first press conference on the murder of Mike Brown by Officer Darren Wilson of the nearby Missouri Ferguson Police Department. His force had been called in to take over the investigation for the much smaller local department. The shooting had occurred less than 24 hours earlier, and the tensions on the ground in Ferguson were already red hot and boiling over.

Six different witnesses on the scene claimed that Mike Brown was shot at repeatedly from behind before he turned around, faced Darren Wilson, verbally surrendered, and put his hands in the air. Wilson, having already shot at Mike Brown at least six times while he fled, then fired off a barrage of four quick shots at the surrendered Brown he was looking at face to face, killing him on the spot. With his lifeless body face down on the road, Mike Brown’s blood literally flowed down Canfield Drive for more than four hours. The shooting and the aftermath that evening, which included police dogs, infuriated residents as never before, and the anger was spreading rapidly across St. Louis and into the nation.

When Chief Belmar sat down the next day to brief the press on his summary of the facts, he stated at 1:13 (and then even more emphatically at 6:01) in the video below, "The entire scene, from approximately the car door (of Officer Wilson) to the shooting, is, uh, about 35 feet."

Ferguson Police Shooting Full Press Conference On Michael Brown | Youtube.com

At that time, when the chief said the "entire scene" was just 35 feet in distance from the "car door to the shooting," every observer accepted it as a negligible fact and thought little about it, instead zeroing in on why Darren Wilson stopped Mike Brown in the first place and why a police officer would shoot a young man who was surrendering with his hands up.

It turns, out, though, that the distance Mike Brown fled was not 35 feet, as was stated in the press conference and cited in hundreds of articles since. Nor was it 45 feet, or 75 feet, or even 95 feet, but approximately 108 feet away from Darren Wilson’s SUV. Below, you will find photos from the day of the murder, maps, infographics, and more to confirm for you that the distance was nearly 300 percent farther away than originally claimed by Chief Belmar and subsequently quoted as fact in almost every narrative of the case.

While the initial reporting of this distance from the chief could have been an error, albeit an egregious one, it seems clear now, after weeks of requests to clarify this discrepancy have only produced silence, that it wasn’t an oversight, but a deliberate misrepresentation of the facts.

What reason would the chief have for so seriously understating the distance by more than 70 feet? Well, how far Mike Brown fled matters greatly, and the St. Louis County Police Department could have many reasons for purposely understating it. One doubts, though, that they expected to be caught telling this lie.
So from jump street the tone has been set regarding the scene. The very distinct impression has been made in the mind of the general public (and the potential grand or trial jury pool) that Brown fled Wilson but didn't get very far before he was shot. Now why is that important?

Without even using this space to dive into the actual murder of Mike Brown, it appears that some base level misconduct has happened when the St. Louis County Police Department has repeatedly lied about the distance Mike Brown fled from the SUV of Darren Wilson.

Do you remember Kajieme Powell? He was a young man in St. Louis who was shot and killed by police just days after the Mike Brown murder. In that case, later that evening and early the next morning, the police regularly referred to a zone, a physical distance of 20 to 30 feet, in which an officer is expected and trained to use lethal force if someone has a knife or can be expected to cause physical harm to the officer. Anyone who saw the fast murder of Kajieme Powell was horrified by it, but the police insisted that the officers, filmed by the cell phone of an onlooker, were within that imaginary zone in which lethal force was expected to be used.

When the police came out the morning after Mike Brown was killed and deliberately included the distance between the SUV and the shooting, it successfully created a very particular narrative. The arc of their initial story, magnified in importance by the absence of even one official report, is that Darren Wilson shot and killed a young man who, in a short distance from the SUV, posed him grave harm.

What follows is indisputable evidence to the contrary. Mike Brown fled at least 108 feet away from Darren Wilson's SUV.
If the police will lie about this fact, what else have they openly lied about? Did they present this false distance to the grand jury? Here are the facts.



This is Darren Wilson's SUV. Where you see it here is exactly where he parked it to confront Mike Brown and Dorian Johnson for jaywalking. Out of sight in this image, to the left of the driver's side door, is Mike Brown's hat (shown in a later image below). Approximately 16 feet behind the SUV is Mike Brown's black sandal which came off while he was running. Please notice the fire hydrant to the right of the SUV.



On the center left is Darren Wilson's SUV from the opposite angle. Notice the two orange cones next to the driver's side door. That's Mike Brown's red St. Louis Cardinals hat next to it.



This is ending line B. Mike Brown is the blurred figure on the ground. That is Darren Wilson, visibly uninjured in every image of him from that day, standing to the right. Having turned around and surrendered, with his hands up, Mike Brown is now facing the back of the SUV.



Here is an overhead view of Canfield Drive. Notice the location of Darren Wilson's SUV on the left and Mike Brown's body on the right. This distance measurement, which was double checked in person multiple times, is 108 feet.

In his 23 years as a St. Louis prosecutor, Bob McCulloch, in spite of strong evidence in many cases, has never indicted a police officer. His office now states any police reports from Darren Wilson's murder of Mike Brown aren't delayed—in fact, they aren't going to release any reports at all. As we are now likely to just be a few weeks away from a grand jury decision in this case, citizens and journalists have been left to do what police and prosecutors seem to have very little interest in—pushing for the real facts to find justice for a young man who was killed with his hands in the air.
Is it a coverup? House of Cards level corruption in Ferguson and beyond

As I've mentioned before this is a local situation for me. Mike Brown was killed several miles from my home. I was driving down W. Florissant Ave with my son trying to find him some new cross country shoes literally a few hours before the QuikTrip was burned to the ground. We actually got delayed right there in front of that QuikTrip for several minutes when the rowdier elements within the crowd that had gathered for the prayer vigil started spilling out into the street. Fortunately at the time they were inclined to listen to some older guys in the crowd who were imploring them to let the traffic pass. My old man used to live in this same apartment complex where Mike Brown was killed many, many years ago. I went up and down Canfield Dr. on many occasions to his place after he and my mother split. There are memorials in place to this day at the very spot where Mike Brown was killed. I've seen them with my own two eyes. The point here is that I am very familiar with this area and the distance Mike Brown ran away from Darren Wilson was far beyond 35 feet.

The STL County PD deliberately misrepresented a material fact in this case and has refused to provide any retraction or clarification despite repeated requests to do so.

And people wonder why the African-American community doesn't trust the "justice" system around here.

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Oct 23, 2014 at 04:18 PM. )
     
OAW
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Oct 23, 2014, 04:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
I'm inclined to believe that the medical examiner presented findings based upon what was presented to him/her. Of course, the opportunity exists for a dead body in police custody to be tampered with prior to the medical examiner ever seeing it. That being said, if I had to bet money on it I'm leaning 80/20 that this kid fired on the officer. And if that's the case then it is what it is. Of course, the question still remains ... why did the officer pursue these young men when no crime had been reported in the first place? The story of one of them "holding his pants as if he had a gun" is total BS. Any cop working the streets of STL knows fully well that a guy holding his pants is doing so because he was sagging. Which, for the record, makes it more difficult to carry a weapon because the pants are not around your waist where you would tuck a weapon. And the non-existent hoodie and bushes just smacks of the police trying to make the situation seem more ominous than it was to justify the officer firing 17 shots. And it's precisely because of those type of shenanigans that people don't trust the police around here.

Moreover having STL PD Union President Jeff Roorda holding a press conference in support of this officer talking about "Vonderrit Myers was no angel." doesn't inspire much confidence ... especially when he was fired himself for falsifying police reports.

OAW
Well now the plot thickens. Breaking news out of STL .....

(KTVI) – The family of Vonderritt Myers Jr. hired pathologist Dr. Cyril Wecht to perform an independent autopsy on the teen’s body after he was shot by a St. Louis police officer. Dr. Wecht released his initial findings in a news conference Thursday afternoon.

Wecht says Myers was shot eight times – six of those shots were fired at his back, possibly as Vonderitt ran from the police officer.


Wecht showed the wounds in Vonderitt’s legs and said one of the shots shattered his femur.

Wecht also says Vonderitt was shot in the groin and the fatal shot was to the right side of his head between his eye brow and ear. Attorney’s for Myers’ family says the shots are consistent with what eye-witnesses said at the scene — that Myers was running away from the officer.

When asked about the gun power residue Dr. Wecht says ballistics evidence would have to show whether Vonderitt’s hand was holding a gun or near a gun at the time of the shooting.






Dr. Wecht: Vonderitt Myers was shot 8 times; six from the back | FOX2now.com

Forensic evidence backs up the witness statements again. Looks like a very strong case that the gun residue on Myer's body was planted by the STL PD.

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Oct 23, 2014 at 04:50 PM. )
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Oct 23, 2014, 04:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Maybe it would be a good idea to have the officer and all the witnesses take lie detector tests with an independent source.
I used to be pro lie detector until I found out its pretty unreliable (and hence, inadmissible in court). Too many factors obfuscate getting accurate results.
     
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Oct 23, 2014, 11:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I used to be pro lie detector until I found out its pretty unreliable (and hence, inadmissible in court). Too many factors obfuscate getting accurate results.
It depends on the system, as I understand it. Strict polygraph can't be relied upon, but in conjunction with experts who are well trained in reading micro expressions and voice pitch (FACS), you can get an accuracy rate that's >94%. I don't think it should be taken as the absolute truth, obviously, but historically that's more accurate than eyewitness testimony.
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Oct 24, 2014, 10:58 AM
 
St. Louis County prosecutor’s office spokesman Ed Magee said his office probably wouldn’t investigate the leaks because prosecutors could not force journalists to divulge their sources
Like that's ever stopped them before.

and because the information could be coming from federal officials in Washington.
That's an interesting accusation.

But I'm being bitter here.

---


Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Why would any DA spill the beans on all evidence regarding a case as soon they receive it? I'm not aware of any office that does that. People seem to be treating the case and the investigation itself as if it's a forum debate and that's absolutely not how it works, at all. The media hasn't been given all the evidence-related facts and we've not heard all the witness testimonies*, one side has been told repeatedly, ad nauseam, because it's what is more readily available (AND because it stirs the pot and makes for more "gripping" news).
That is not accurate. It's been show repeatedly that FOIA requests have been delayed, stonewalled and outright refused (Most were related just to the Ferguson protests). The entire bullshit with the video is the highlight of high-level manipulation.
     
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Oct 24, 2014, 10:59 AM
 
While the initial reporting of this distance from the chief could have been an error, albeit an egregious one, it seems clear now, after weeks of requests to clarify this discrepancy have only produced silence, that it wasn’t an oversight, but a deliberate misrepresentation of the facts.
Can I get any sources on this? As in, major media requests that were obfuscated or denied?
     
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Oct 24, 2014, 11:01 AM
 


Assuming this photo is accurate, once again, I say a trial in necessary to properly vet the facts.

Edit: Does it take into account whatever distance Wilson ran chasing after Brown? Or did he fire from just outside his SUV?
     
 
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