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I'd hate to see what their downfall would look like if they didn't control the White House, the Senate, the House, and a majority of state government.
If you listen to many old school conservatives, they don't necessarily see this as a good thing. Some were even hoping the Republicans would lose, because it'd be a repudiation of Trump's recipe to success and allow a rejuvenation of old values plus the influx of new, younger blood. They are afraid that the Republicans winning the trifecta changes the party permanently, and allows Trump and his policies to leave a permanent impression — a party that they no longer identify with. A lot of their criticism of Trump echoes what we have already discussed here, but boils down to the fact that he has no principles and isn't really a conservative. They see their party at a cross road, and Trump's success will encourage the GOP to take the wrong turn towards populism, etc.
Another thing is the rise of racism and anti-semitism within a segment that has now voted for the GOP: If you listen to some Jewish conservatives, for instance, they are very concerned about the rise of anti-semitic messages, tweets, and headlines they read in the alt right media. Go on youtube, select a few alt right echo chamber celebrities, and browse the comments. When I first read some of them, I was shocked by what I read, and what some people apparently believe. I don't have to like Hillary Clinton, but to claim she is part of a Jewish cabal of bankers and industrialists bent on destroying the world!?!? As a German comments like that make me nauseous, because they remind me of a catastrophic period in my own country when the Nazis rose to power through democratic elections.
The only way to improve the situation is to demand better leaders on “our” side, because that's the side we have the most influence over.* It is just much more convenient and makes you feel better to bash the other side while playing defense for yours. Chongo's comment where he equated a black candidate for DNC chair with Bannon, and call both of them black/white nationalists is one example of that. That's a recipe for disaster in this current climate.
* And I am including Trump in this: if you elected Trump because he was anti-establishment, his cabinet picks should make you concerned and furious. I really mean it when I say that this should cut all ways.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
America has passed up a golden opportunity to get rid of all the batshit crazy from its politics. Instead they chose to go full retard. At least religion took a backseat during this election. I guess thats progress of a sort.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
And what exactly makes Rep. Ellison a "black nationalist"?
OAW
His work for the Nation of Islam for one. Working for anti-Israel groups is not a good sign either.
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep
America has passed up a golden opportunity to get rid of all the batshit crazy from its politics. Instead they chose to go full retard. At least religion took a backseat during this election. I guess thats progress of a sort.
You weren't paying attention. Homilies and sermons like this were preached this election cycle.
the post election Homily. The work has just begun
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Last edited by Chongo; Nov 22, 2016 at 11:21 AM.
)
Yeah, how do you define the conservative party now? Is it the alt-right Trump thing (if you like that label), or the traditional Republicans like Romney and McCain that have called into question the wisdom of supporting Trump?
You can chop up the alt-right into segments like largely angry, largely white, often Christian people, many with somewhat obsolete skills and many who live in rural environments, but a lot of them were also Bernie Sanders supporters, so it may not make sense to profile this population this way.
The point is though, just because Trump was elected doesn't mean the right wing isn't fragmented. You could probably say the same about the left too with your Bernie vs. Clinton supporters, although the ideological separation is not as obvious.
I didn't say that. Sure Ellison can be DNC chairman, and Democrats will look like hypocrites after bending over backwards to paint Bannon as a "white nationalist" and then elect a "black nationalist" as DNC chairman.
So if he's a black nationalist as you say denying him the chair wouldn't be islamophobic then, would it?
But Rep. Ellison has never been a member of the NOI. As a young activist he did help to organize the Million Man March back in 1995. But the overwhelming majority of those who organized and/or attended the Million Man March weren't NOI members. I was there myself and I've certainly never been a member of the NOI. Care to try again?
You weren't paying attention. Homilies and sermons like this were preached this election cycle.
Not really what I meant.
There was no candidate claiming to talk to Jesus or implement laws from the old testament in an effort to attract votes from the religious right. They voted for Trump in spite of the fact he is obviously a godless sexual deviant. This should destroy their credibility of course, but as we see continuously the right care nothing for their own hypocrisy.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
There was no candidate claiming to talk to Jesus or implement laws from the old testament in an effort to attract votes from the religious right. They voted for Trump in spite of the fact he is obviously a godless sexual deviant. This should destroy their credibility of course, but as we see continuously the right care nothing for their own hypocrisy.
Let's see. One picture is from the campaign trail and HRC has a face full of makeup. The other is of HRC off the campaign trail and she is wearing no makeup at all. The difference is not surprising to anyone who has ever been around real women. Just saying ...
If you listen to many old school conservatives, they don't necessarily see this as a good thing. Some were even hoping the Republicans would lose, because it'd be a repudiation of Trump's recipe to success and allow a rejuvenation of old values plus the influx of new, younger blood. They are afraid that the Republicans winning the trifecta changes the party permanently, and allows Trump and his policies to leave a permanent impression — a party that they no longer identify with. A lot of their criticism of Trump echoes what we have already discussed here, but boils down to the fact that he has no principles and isn't really a conservative. They see their party at a cross road, and Trump's success will encourage the GOP to take the wrong turn towards populism, etc.
Another thing is the rise of racism and anti-semitism within a segment that has now voted for the GOP: If you listen to some Jewish conservatives, for instance, they are very concerned about the rise of anti-semitic messages, tweets, and headlines they read in the alt right media. Go on youtube, select a few alt right echo chamber celebrities, and browse the comments. When I first read some of them, I was shocked by what I read, and what some people apparently believe. I don't have to like Hillary Clinton, but to claim she is part of a Jewish cabal of bankers and industrialists bent on destroying the world!?!? As a German comments like that make me nauseous, because they remind me of a catastrophic period in my own country when the Nazis rose to power through democratic elections.
The only way to improve the situation is to demand better leaders on “our” side, because that's the side we have the most influence over.* It is just much more convenient and makes you feel better to bash the other side while playing defense for yours. Chongo's comment where he equated a black candidate for DNC chair with Bannon, and call both of them black/white nationalists is one example of that. That's a recipe for disaster in this current climate.
* And I am including Trump in this: if you elected Trump because he was anti-establishment, his cabinet picks should make you concerned and furious. I really mean it when I say that this should cut all ways.
Sorry it took me so long to respond. RL intervened.
I feel a lot of that repudiation was based on the assumption of not just a Trump loss, but Trump getting curb-stomped. Much jockeying to leave Trump in the dust and get into position for the 2020 "heir apparent" list.
What happened was just what Omarosa predicted. The haters all convened at the White House Castle to get on their knees and kiss his ring.
I'm all for repudiation of "isms", but is it too much to ask for a strain of pragmatism in the effort? When do we acknowledge the methods used by the Democrats are what got repudiated?
Much jockeying to leave Trump in the dust and get into position for the 2020 "heir apparent" list.
No, I wasn't talking about people with aspirations for the Presidency, just ordinary people and others who don't. The people I am talking about here are just concerned that the GOP swings towards being a populist party for the predominantly white heartland of the US. Not only do they have ideological qualms about this, they also know that over time they won't be able to win elections any longer.
Originally Posted by subego
I'm all for repudiation of "isms", but is it too much to ask for a strain of pragmatism in the effort?
There is a difference between pragmatism and rolling over, nor is pragmatism giving up your convictions for personal gain. And you see tons of the latter, you just need to look at who was fundamentally opposed to Trump and his policies (and being unduly insulted by Trump), but now kotaus to him. You of course have to deal with the reality of Trump having been elected, but Trump comes with a lot of baggage and conflict with the GOP, and needs to be kept in check if the GOP wants to use the trifecta to their advantage. Many of his purported policies are actually not supported by the GOP in Congress, e. g. his plans to keep the most expensive bit of Obamacare (insurance companies cannot reject people based on pre-existing conditions, and the insurance of dependents up to college) cutting off income. Ditto for other expansionist and anti-free-trade policies that run afoul with hitherto GOP dogma. These are not small issues, these are fundamental differences. Add to that Trump's business dealings with e. g. the state-owned Bank of China which lead to direct conflicts of interests between interests of the state and interests of Donald Trump himself.
Originally Posted by subego
When do we acknowledge the methods used by the Democrats are what got repudiated?
These are two entirely separate issues. Both parties nominated extremely unpopular candidates, and the less popular candidate was elected President. We're talking about the GOP here, though, and they too elected someone unpopular. And the reason why a discussion of the GOP is more important right now is because they are in control of Congress and the Presidency.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
He was completely spineless. I don't know what news you were following.
When Pelley continued to press him, Ryan said that the fact that the president-elect of the United States circulates false information on social media is not a concern to him.
“It doesn’t matter to me. He won the election,” he said.
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