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analogue SPRINKLES · Oct 14, 2007, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

WTF? I've been using 9A559 for a month now. It's not recent.

Sure it has bugs, most of which are with applications, not the OS. I'd expect the OS bugs to be fixed before release, and then we'll see application updates trickling in shortly after that.

I sure hope so but I am not holding my breath. Rumor has it 559 only had 2 known bugs and the ones I found were rather obvious and none of the "known" ones.

Anyway, I'll wait to see how the final one turns out but I expect a software update to come out rather quickly.

0157988944 · Oct 14, 2007, 05:19 PM

Yeah, I think we'll be seeing 10.5.1 within a month.

Chuckit · Oct 14, 2007, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

Anyone notice Photoshop CS3 has a non-Aqua (Except for what it gets from the Extras.rsrc) GUI?

If you mean "Photoshop CS3 uses Windows widgets rather than Mac ones," yes, I noticed.

CharlesS · Oct 14, 2007, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

I sure hope so but I am not holding my breath. Rumor has it 559 only had 2 known bugs and the ones I found were rather obvious and none of the "known" ones.

Well, if you think that the bugs in that Read Me file are all the bugs Apple knows about, you're sadly mistaken.

I doubt there's ever been an OS release in history that had only 2 known bugs at any point.

Kevin · Oct 14, 2007, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by adamfishercox

Yeah, I think we'll be seeing 10.5.1 within a month.

Well isn't that per norm with every OS X upgrade? Heck it's been that way since system 7 as far as I can remember.

Originally Posted by Chuckit

If you mean "Photoshop CS3 uses Windows widgets rather than Mac ones," yes, I noticed.

Windows widgets? No. Photoshop CS3 on Windows looks nothing like that. It does use alot of the translucent black that Apple is using in Leopard too.

And as far as Bugs in 10.5. There will be. They wont get them all out by the time it's released.

That is what the .1 updater is for. But it will work for the most part.

10.0, 10.1, 10.2 etc all the same way.

0157988944 · Oct 14, 2007, 10:18 PM

It uses Windows widgets. The X and the stupid Line thats supposed to mean minimize.

And sorry, but it looks like hell in Safari.

Kevin · Oct 14, 2007, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by adamfishercox

It uses Windows widgets. The X and the stupid Line thats supposed to mean minimize.

What I am saying is, Those aren't the widgets that the XP version of Photoshop uses. So they aren't the windows widgets. They are just the x-+ without the bubbles. Now you may say that it reminds you of XPs widgets. But that isn't the case here.

And sorry, but it looks like hell in Safari.

I agree, that was a mockup that took me 3seconds to do. But something will probably be replacing this. If not, I am going to be.

Unified, Aqua's replacement, or whatever Apple is calling it shouldn't be a mix-mash. The only reason I can think of them doing that is to slowly migrate people over to the look.

If the GUI is solid, I don't think any migration will be needed. There will always be the Aqua lovers... and they can theme their OS to look like Aqua did.

But I will be glad to finally wash my hands of it. When I think of a modern OS, I don't think of gel, gems, and shiny stuff. That reminds me of some of the uglier Kaleidoscope themes.

0157988944 · Oct 14, 2007, 10:58 PM

There can still be the three circle "traffic light" widgets... they aren't "Aqua." In fact, they are more matte and more saturated, less glassy in Leopard.

Kevin · Oct 14, 2007, 10:58 PM

For example, this isn't leopard, we all know this.

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/8...ardshotzf3.jpg

But I LOVE the stoplight buttons and pill in the screenshots. The scroll bars too. As far as their shape. Not the texture

I wouldn't be surprised if Apple doesn't have them like that. If they come with the old gels, I will be replacing them with ones like the screenshot above.

MindFad · 01:53 PM

I hate to keep this going....

As much as I am for and like the iTunes scroll bars, I don't really see the buttons or the stoplight widgets going anywhere. Personally, I like the stoplight buttons, and I think the metaphor still works well. They are too ingrained as a defining part of OS X that I don't see them ever going away. They're the most noticeable feature of any OS X screenshot. When you see them, you think OS X. The updated look of the Leopard ones, the brighter ones, have actually grown on me, too, I admit.

Kevin · Oct 15, 2007, 06:00 AM

Originally Posted by MindFad

I hate to keep this going....

As much as I am for and like the iTunes scroll bars, I don't really see the buttons or the stoplight widgets going anywhere. Personally, I like the stoplight buttons, and I think the metaphor still works well. They are too ingrained as a defining part of OS X that I don't see them ever going away. They're the most noticeable feature of any OS X screenshot or feature. When you see them, you think OS X. The updates look of the Leopard ones, the brighter ones, have actually grown on me, too, I admit.

The new ones are just MORE shiny and MORE aquaish. And don't fit in with the rest of the theme. IMHO. If Apple decided to keep them, I will just hack them out. Simple modifications like that do not need a themeing application like Shape Shifter aren't needed for such mundane tasks.

Again, we will see.

analogue SPRINKLES · Oct 15, 2007, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Well, if you think that the bugs in that Read Me file are all the bugs Apple knows about, you're sadly mistaken.

I doubt there's ever been an OS release in history that had only 2 known bugs at any point.

In that case I am happy to know apples releases OS's with lots of known bugs.

.Neo · Oct 15, 2007, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

The new ones are just MORE shiny and MORE aquaish. And don't fit in with the rest of the theme. IMHO. If Apple decided to keep them, I will just hack them out. Simple modifications like that do not need a themeing application like Shape Shifter aren't needed for such mundane tasks.

Personally I think the new ones fit well. Much better than the current dim ones.

CharlesS · Oct 15, 2007, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

In that case I am happy to know apples releases OS's with lots of known bugs.

Happens with every OS release, from every maker. An operating system is something way too complicated to be 100% bug free. What companies do is try to get the number of major showstopper bugs down to zero by release, and the number of the minor bugs to something acceptably low. That's why there's always a 10.x.1 update shortly after 10.x, and then 10.x.2, 10.x.3, etc. - each one of those updates is fixing some bugs that were in the previous revision.

Kevin · Oct 15, 2007, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

In that case I am happy to know apples releases OS's with lots of known bugs.

If Apple waited till there was no bugs to ship the OS, it would never ship. There is no such thing as a bug-less OS.

Originally Posted by .Neo

Personally I think the new ones fit well. Much better than the current dim ones.

Well the Unified GUI is matt with very little shine to it. The current buttons are aquaish looking. The two don't mesh together in my head.

They look like they came from two different GUI designs. Like Apple told one person to work on the buttons, and another to work on the rest of the OS.

When searching on Google for 10.5s GUI and the comments made, most comments were made complaining about how they didn't look right. I posted said links in a earlier post.

I hear this in #Macintosh on the undernet all day long too. And mostly just developers hang out there. Not graphics people. I am one of the few graphics guys that hang there.

xi_hyperon · Oct 15, 2007, 01:28 PM

Regarding the stoplight buttons:

Originally Posted by MindFad

They are too ingrained as a defining part of OS X that I don't see them ever going away. They're the most noticeable feature of any OS X screenshot or feature. When you see them, you think OS X.

I would strongly agree with this. I'd say keep them, and for those who don't like 'em, there's an easy way to resolve that.

analogika · Oct 15, 2007, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

In that case I am happy to know apples releases OS's with lots of known bugs.

You mean to say you only just started using computers?

What a naïve statement!

besson3c · Oct 15, 2007, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by analogika

AppleInsider | Road to Mac OS X Leopard: Time Machine [Page 2]

This is the best and most thorough article I"ve read about TM, thanks for passing this on!

It is interesting that Apple is making use of hard links to piece together backup increments. I've been doing this myself, this scheme works quite well (and obviously much better than keeping full copies). There is one part of this article that is a little vague to me though:

Apple actually designed the multi-links in HFS+ primarily to support Time Machine. Unlike other Unix or Linux distros, Mac OS X's multi-links support hard linking to both files and directories. Creating multiple hard links to directories is outlined in the official POSIX specification for Unix, but is rarely supported because the use of multiple hard links for directories is dangerously powerful. If a child directory linked to its own parent, it would create a directory cycle that could cause unbridled looping and file system corruption. File system utilities are also typically unprepared to handle multi-linked files. In Time Machine, multi-links are used in a specific, controlled context to avoid these types of problems.

How are multi-links used to avoid these types of problems? In a Unix file system, folders are just treated as files, so maybe herein lies this danger. I guess HFS+ is a little different in this regard?

Chuckit · Oct 15, 2007, 02:18 PM

I think the point is that Time Machine does not have any codepaths that would create a recursive directory relationship — it's safe in the context of Time Machine.

Kevin · Oct 15, 2007, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by xi_hyperon

I would strongly agree with this. I'd say keep them, and for those who don't like 'em, there's an easy way to resolve that.

Of course there is ways to change them. My hope for Apple this time around is a consistent GUI so I wouldn't HAVE to modify the resources.

If they don't do it, of course I can change them. And I probably will. If they do, I guess those that liked them can go back and hack them back in.

besson3c · Oct 15, 2007, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I think the point is that Time Machine does not have any codepaths that would create a recursive directory relationship — it's safe in the context of Time Machine.

I guess Time Machine is basically a combination database + file structure w. hard links + interface, and since everything is referenced by database and accessed through the database (rather than a direct file system call) herein lies the safety?

xi_hyperon · Oct 15, 2007, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

If they do, I guess those that liked them can go back and hack them back in.

Haha...that's true too.

analogue SPRINKLES · Oct 15, 2007, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by analogika

You mean to say you only just started using computers?

What a naïve statement!

It is strange how in the last few pages of this thread everyone seems to have gotten a heap of sand in their vaginas.

0157988944 · Oct 15, 2007, 03:45 PM

Wow...

vtboyarc · Oct 15, 2007, 03:51 PM

I have a leopard question. will the remote I have for my not quite 2 month old macbook work with the new and front row? personally, the look of it reminds me of the new vista media center

0157988944 · Oct 15, 2007, 03:53 PM

Of course.

Horsepoo!!! · Oct 15, 2007, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

It is strange how in the last few pages of this thread everyone seems to have gotten a heap of sand in their vaginas.

When you weren't looking, I shoved some in yours.

vtboyarc · Oct 15, 2007, 04:02 PM

heck I cant even figure out how to fast-forward more than 4x in the mac dvd player. I hope that will get fixed

xi_hyperon · Oct 15, 2007, 04:03 PM

Everyone put on your asbestos jackets.

For better or worse, I'm using a G4 MDD several times a week, and am wondering how Leopard will perform on this and other similar, older model Macs.

TETENAL · Oct 15, 2007, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by vtboyarc

heck I cant even figure out how to fast-forward more than 4x in the mac dvd player. I hope that will get fixed

Control->Scan Rate->32 x Speed

You don't need Leopard for that.

CharlesS · Oct 15, 2007, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

How are multi-links used to avoid these types of problems? In a Unix file system, folders are just treated as files, so maybe herein lies this danger. I guess HFS+ is a little different in this regard?

Seriously besson, you're asking too many questions that those of us who could answer them, can't. Let's just come back to this thread in a month and talk about this stuff, okay?

(waits for the inquisition to show up - "Oh no! He mentioned NDA! My virgin ears!")

0157988944 · Oct 15, 2007, 05:06 PM

Oh no! He mentioned NDA! His pompous ears like to hear himself say he is under NDA!

A

makes it OK®

MartiNZ · Oct 15, 2007, 08:08 PM

Man, they need to hurry up and announce the release before you guys virtually kill each other.

Seems to me they've pretty much missed an October release

.

0157988944 · Oct 15, 2007, 08:13 PM

Naah. I think we'll have an announcement tomorrow, and I believe the rumors of a 6 PM Oct. 26 Launch Party.

Chuckit · Oct 15, 2007, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by MartiNZ

Man, they need to hurry up and announce the release before you guys virtually kill each other.

Seems to me they've pretty much missed an October release

.

Considering all the rumors point to Oct. 26 with a release event on that day, I would think not.

CharlesS · Oct 15, 2007, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by adamfishercox

Oh no! He mentioned NDA! His pompous ears like to hear himself say he is under NDA!

Well really. Besson3c keeps getting so frustrated, belittles the forum for only talking about the skin when he'd rather talk about the nitty-gritty technical details, when really the skin is one of the few things we can actually talk about at this point, because that's one of the few things that Apple has shown publicly on their web site. Just wait a few freaking weeks! Sheesh.

TheoCryst · Oct 15, 2007, 11:42 PM

Well, we're getting closer. If it's gonna make an October release, it pretty much needs to have gone gold already (or within the next day or two). Can't wait, Aqua widgets or no Aqua widgets!

Kevin · Oct 16, 2007, 05:34 AM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Well really. Besson3c keeps getting so frustrated, belittles the forum for only talking about the skin when he'd rather talk about the nitty-gritty technical details, when really the skin is one of the few things we can actually talk about at this point, because that's one of the few things that Apple has shown publicly on their web site. Just wait a few freaking weeks! Sheesh.

I am not sure besson was complaining in THIS thread about the skin talk. Just his. That is why It was moved in here. If he was complaining in this one too... well.. .I don't know what to say.

And most people are talking abstractly about the skin. No one knows what Apple has or has not shown publicly that will actually be in Leopard skin wise till it too ships.

PaperNotes · Oct 16, 2007, 06:57 AM

Cmon, I love it when people say they are under NDA especially when they're obviously lying, downloaded from Pirate Bay and want to appear to forum members like they are the elite of app developers.

"Don't argue with me man, I know what I am talking about. I am under NDA, developing an 3D Open GL version of Office 2010 all on my own and my Nintendo HD-DVD player rules!"

Gotta love them of pompous ears species.

ghporter · Oct 16, 2007, 08:09 AM

This thread is NOT about dissing people based on one's own belief about whether or not those people are actually under an NDA or not. That's off topic and rude. Stop now. Really.

analogika · Oct 16, 2007, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by vtboyarc

heck I cant even figure out how to fast-forward more than 4x in the mac dvd player. I hope that will get fixed

Like in many other applications. Hold down the Apple key and press the right arrow repeatedly to cycle through the fast forward speeds.

mdc · Oct 16, 2007, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Seriously besson, you're asking too many questions that those of us who could answer them, can't. Let's just come back to this thread in a month and talk about this stuff, okay?

(waits for the inquisition to show up - "Oh no! He mentioned NDA! My virgin ears!")

I guess you only have to wait 10 more days until you get to tell us everything that you've been holding in

Kevin · Oct 16, 2007, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by mdc

I guess you only have to wait 10 more days until you get to tell us everything that you've been holding in

Well by then everyone will know. Having said that I am sure Charles gets his tiger legit. Or he'd simply not talk about it at all.

besson3c · Oct 16, 2007, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Well really. Besson3c keeps getting so frustrated, belittles the forum for only talking about the skin when he'd rather talk about the nitty-gritty technical details, when really the skin is one of the few things we can actually talk about at this point, because that's one of the few things that Apple has shown publicly on their web site. Just wait a few freaking weeks! Sheesh.

You guys can talk about whatever you want, I don't really care, but I know there are a lot of people that are running pirated versions of Leopard here. I was thinking outloud WRT the hard link scheme, but many of the questions I had about TM prior to the AppleInsider article were basic enough that pretty much anybody with a copy of Leopard could report on (i.e. the basic gist of how it actually works and what limitations it has)...

In builds past there seemed to be more information about these sorts of things, but it seems like skins has monopolized the dialog for Leopard. I'm not trying to prevent skin conversation, I was simply trying to stimulate other conversation to supplement the skin conversations.

besson3c · Oct 16, 2007, 10:18 AM

Can you use your Apple Remote to control the DVD player?

TETENAL · Oct 16, 2007, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Can you use your Apple Remote to control the DVD player?

You can do that in Tiger. They hardly removed that feature for Leopard.

TETENAL · Oct 16, 2007, 10:31 AM

The big question now is what colour are the scrollbars in the final version?

Chuckit · Oct 16, 2007, 10:52 AM

Oh, since Apple has officially announced it now, I would just like to point out that the Help Menu Search thing looks totally sweet. I have no idea why they never publicly demoed it, because that looks like something most people I know would actually use a lot.

Also: "Adaptive Video Analyzation"? What did English do to you, Apple?

Art Vandelay · Oct 16, 2007, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

The big question now is what colour are the scrollbars in the final version?

The same as they have been. Sorry Kevin, looks like those of us that said they won't be changing it this late in the game were right.

Horsepoo!!! · Oct 16, 2007, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

The same as they have been. Sorry Kevin, looks like those of us that said they won't be changing it this late in the game were right.

Too bad too...Apple was *this* close to finally having a fully consistent GUI. I bet the RI graphics files for the metal buttons (as seen in the Finder, Safari, iChat, and every other frickin' app in Leopard except Mail and Preview) still use the Aqua look.

10.5.0 is beta folks.

Everyone that wanted to see this thing out as soon as possible will be back in this forum on the 26th saying how Leopard is full of bugs and then go into a diatribe about incomplete features and how they think Mail and Preview buttons look ghey. Mark my words (and by mark my words I mean push cmd-D.)