[lpkmckenna]

The Aqua situation is sad. I hoped for better. Oh well.

[0157988944]

This seems to have gotten lost, so I'll post it again. I think it is very likely that the screenshots on Apple.com were made from 9A559, because it would take a bit of time to make all these images. Then it is POSSIBLE that 9A581 could have the new scrollbars.

[Art Vandelay]

Sorry, don't buy that. Leopard has been rumored to be in final candidate stages for a couple of weeks. The FCs would have to have this supposed new GUI in it, otherwise they aren't FCs. It does not really take that long to do screenshots.

[TETENAL]

I know this is the File menu, but what if this was an application I was not familiar with? Why isn't the menu title from which the menu is pulled down highlighted any more?

[Art Vandelay]

Faulty mockup. Highlights are present in these images...

[0157988944]

Is that from Apple.com?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by MindFad 

Hey, are these button in the Time Machine preference pane still in place in the latest builds?

Where are the aqua buttons?

I can see if it ships like that... the names it will get...



All it needs now is lens flare. So many different GUI ideas in one, one, one screenshot!

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by mdc 

What does QuickTime look like on 10.5?
Does it still have borders?

Of course. There's no actual reason to use QuickTime player anymore with QuickLook.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by adamfishercox 

This seems to have gotten lost, so I'll post it again. I think it is very likely that the screenshots on Apple.com were made from 9A559, because it would take a bit of time to make all these images. Then it is POSSIBLE that 9A581 could have the new scrollbars.

Possible? Sure. Likely?

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by MindFad 

Hey, are these button in the Time Machine preference pane still in place in the latest builds?

Sure is in 9A559.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Possible? Sure. Likely?

No one knows at this point. What is know is, If Apple releases 10.5 like this, they have lots of splainin to do.

[0157988944]

All I can say is I hope I'm right. And I will be very very happy if I am. And rather disappointed if I'm not. Both for egotistical and aesthetic reasons

[lpkmckenna]

Odd fact: escape the Lybians with Leopard!

October 26, 1985: The DeLorean's first test, Marty escapes the Lybians to 1955.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by adamfishercox 

All I can say is I hope I'm right. And I will be very very happy if I am. And rather disappointed if I'm not. Both for egotistical and aesthetic reasons

Mine is just purely aesthetic and simply getting sick of Aqua reasons. If no changes to the finder are going to be made, I'll admit I was wrong in a heartbeat.

It would make Apple look a lot worse than I I'm afraid.

This would be the most convoluted GUI Apple has came up with yet if things aren't changed.

I guess if it does come out like this, as certain people are saying it will. They can celebrate that fact.

Yay.

[0157988944]

In support of my theory, take a look at this picture from Apple's website. Note the date on the iCal icon. Although, granted, there is also a screenshot with the date at the default July 17th.



EDIT: Ahhh forget it... the 12th wasn't even a Monday. I's just a mockup.

Although the Mac OS X SERVER website's iCal icon has a date that is in line with 9A559.

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by adamfishercox 

Is that from Apple.com?

Yes.

[0157988944]

A pox on them for their poor photoshopping consistency skills.

[Kevin]

So again we are back to square one.

[Art Vandelay]

What do you mean?

[Kevin]

What does who mean?

[Art Vandelay]

You. What do you mean that we're back to square one?

[Kevin]

Oh sorry I thought I posted this.

10.5 secret features? - AppleInsider

"so after hearing steve talk about things 'we cant show you right now' does anyone think we will see something of a surprise?"

it was posted today. What and when did steve say these things?

ANd another in the forum

"Umm, so what was the "secret" that Jobs spoke of when making the initial OS 10.5 announcement. All, but dropped?"

"There’s some top features to Leopard that we are going to keep close to the vest and not going to show you today"

[Art Vandelay]

Apple - Mac OS X Server - Resources

All the documentation provided features the same GUI as it currently stands in Leopard. I highly doubt Apple is going to redo all those PDFs for a surprise GUI change on 10/26. Also, before someone says it, I think the chances of Server having a different GUI than Client is 0%.

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

Oh sorry I thought I posted this.

10.5 secret features? - AppleInsider

"so after hearing steve talk about things 'we cant show you right now' does anyone think we will see something of a surprise?"

it was posted today. What and when did steve say these things?

I believe the OP is referring to the Top Secret features announced at WWDC06. However, there isn't much context provided in that post.

[osxpinot]

Steve said that they were keeping some stuff secret until WWDC '07 so M$ wouldn't copy them and put them in Vista. Then we got the transparent menu bar and the 3D dock. Oh snap.

[Kevin]

But what is that feature? What was he holding close? It never got let out...

And no I don't think what the above person said. He said something "special"

I mean is THIS the GUI Apple was raving about that would knock Vista back into the 20th century?

[osxpinot]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

But what is that feature? What was he holding close? It never got let out...

And no I don't think what the above person said. He said something "special"

I mean is THIS the GUI Apple was raving about that would knock Vista back into the 20th century?

Maybe they had something planned but axed due to time constraints. We'll probably never know. It's definitely fair to say that Leopard is too little too late.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by osxpinot 

Maybe they had something planned but axed due to time constraints. We'll probably never know. It's definitely fair to say that Leopard is too little too late.

No one can say anything for positive as far as Apple goes lately. And that is a sad thing. The one consistency you could always count on was however, consistency.

And the the last screenshots of 10.5 I saw was a GUI mess. Like they had three teams doing application GUIs. And then they all mixed them together. Regardless if they look good together. Have you seen those folders close up? Nothing CLOSE to aqua looking...

If Steve doesn't have a "Secret" GUI to unfold, Apple is going to seriously disappoint a lot of people with it's GUI. You thought Aqua had a lot of complaints.. .

No design awards for Apple this year if this is the case.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Not to nitpick, but are cosmetic UI differences actually UI inconsistencies? I think of UI inconsistencies as more behavioral than cosmetic.

As much as I hate to agree with besson3c on UI-related things, he's spot on here. There's nothing "inconsistent" about Leopard's UI as shown in the screenshots on Apple's web site.

At most, what it is is an aesthetic decision which you disagree with. Oh well.

Originally Posted by Kevin 

LOTS of people saying the SAME thing.

Actually, I'd say it's a very vocal minority saying the same thing. Most people couldn't care less.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by osxpinot 

Steve said that they were keeping some stuff secret until WWDC '07 so M$ wouldn't copy them and put them in Vista. Then we got the transparent menu bar and the 3D dock. Oh snap.

And Stacks. And Spaces. And QuickLook. And the new Finder.

Whether you are impressed by those features is up to you, but those were the secret features.

[Kevin]

No there is actual cosmetic faux pauses going on there. Now some people can see these things. And some don't have an eye for them. And it's just not a aesthetics thing. I aesthetically did not agree with the original Aqua. But at least it was consistent. And it all matched. This is not the case.

And no, it's not a minority. I did a quick search in Google and found 6 people that said the EXACT same thing that I have about the situation. It's just not an "oddity" or dislike in me as besson is attempting to paint out. It's a glaring problem.

Apple has really convoluted it's own GUI. It might be a right brain left brain thing.

You never often see programmers that have beautifully designed web pages. Nor do you often see designers that can program well. (There is always exceptions of course)

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

And Stacks. And Spaces. And QuickLook. And the new Finder.

Whether you are impressed by those features is up to you, but those were the secret features.

As far as you know. This is a guess.

Look, I am not treating my guesses as fact. I have no need to. I wish others would do the same.

No one posting in these forums, that is speaking, knows anymore about what is going on than anyone else.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

If Steve doesn't have a "Secret" GUI to unfold, Apple is going to seriously disappoint a lot of people with it's GUI. You thought Aqua had a lot of complaints.. .

You are confusing the words "GUI" and "skin".

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

You are confusing the words "GUI" and "skin".

I am not going to take the semantic bait. You can call it want you want.

Regardless of your straw-man, What I said above is true.

This is like if Apple took Platinum, Modern, and the "kids" theme and made it into one theme. This is what 10.5's theme looks like at the moment.

No consistency between apps. Either apple will quickly adopt, or get ridiculed.

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

And Stacks. And Spaces. And QuickLook. And the new Finder.

Whether you are impressed by those features is up to you, but those were the secret features.

Spaces was announced at WWDC06. Wasn't QuickLook too?

[Kevin]

Yes, yes it was. That's irrelevant too. No one knows as of yet what Job's was talking about. No matter how they state it in their text.

[Art Vandelay]

It is relevant because if Spaces was announced at WWDC06, then it wasn't one of the top secret features.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

No consistency between apps. Either apple will quickly adopt, or get ridiculed.

Bet on option 2.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

No consistency between apps.

How do you figure? Every app has the same scroll bars - the blue ones (except for iTunes, of course, but it was already that way in Tiger).

I just don't get what you're on about.

[cybergoober]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

And no, it's not a minority. I did a quick search in Google and found 6 people that said the EXACT same thing that I have about the situation. It's just not an "oddity" or dislike in me as besson is attempting to paint out. It's a glaring problem.

6 people?! How many millions of OS X users are there?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay 

It is relevant because if Spaces was announced at WWDC06, then it wasn't one of the top secret features.

Correct, my wording was wrong. I mean that Charles saying that that was the "secret" and that was that" was intellectually dishonest. Since he doesn't know what Jobs was talking about.

I am not saying my ideas are the facts. I am just going by what I know.

• Jobs said 10.5 would knock the socks off of Vista's GUI and look.

So far I have yet to see THAT big of a difference in 10.4 and 10.5 GUI or look. Sure there are small ones... but it surely doesn't know Vista's socks off.

• Jobs said there would be something "special" he was keeping a secret till the end.

He has never said what this was. And no one but him, and those he told know what it was.

• They were looking for someone to make an Aqua replacement.

• 99.999% of their webpage has recently been stripped of all Aqua content.

• The OS and Folders and over all look simply clashes with Aqua. (Anyone with any cosmetic taste or discernment can tell this)

• iTunes and the rest of the iApps now support these new scroll bars. It would be stupid to give the rest of the OS different ones.

• Apple is known to pull last minute stunts to boost sales and media hype.

I could name a ton more. But I could only think of ONE reason they would keep it this way. They simply didn't have time to fix it before release.

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

How do you figure? Every app has the same scroll bars - the blue ones (except for iTunes, of course, but it was already that way in Tiger).

I just don't get what you're on about.

Not just iTunes have those scrollbars anymore Charles. All of the iApps do too. iPhoto, ICal, etc. Why would Apple put these different and new looking scroll bars in all it's Apps, but leave them out of the OS?

Originally Posted by cybergoober 

6 people?! How many millions of OS X users are there?

When did I say I posted all the people that have a complaint? I did not. I said I found 6 people in the matter of seconds. Thats a lot in such a short period of time. And I take that back. That was six INSTANCES of MULTIPLE people complaining. Not just one.\

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Bet on option 2.

And if that is the case, it will be a sad day for Apple.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay 

Spaces was announced at WWDC06. Wasn't QuickLook too?

You're right. So the secret features were the new Finder and Stacks. And QuickLook, to the extent that its functionality is actually exposed in the new Finder.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Every app has the same scroll bars - the blue ones

Actually the Finder has the blue ones and black ones; Mail has the blue ones and white ones. iTunes and iLife have the new ones and the blue ones.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

• Jobs said 10.5 would knock the socks off of Vista's GUI and look.

Uh, marketing? What did you expect Jobs to say, "Oh, Leopard will be pretty okay, and will have some nice new features, and you'll like it more than Vista for the same reasons you liked Tiger more than Vista."?

• Jobs said there would be something "special" he was keeping a secret till the end.

He announced some "secret" features they weren't able to show yet at WWDC 2006. In reality, those features probably just were too buggy to be ready to demo at the time.

• They were looking for someone to make an Aqua replacement.

Citation needed - although you could argue that Leopard as is is an "Aqua replacement" - it's depends on what you want to say that "Aqua" is.

• 99.999% of their webpage has recently been stripped of all Aqua content.

Except for the most important part - the Leopard screenshots.

• The OS and Folders and over all look simply clashes with Aqua. (Anyone with any cosmetic taste or discernment can tell this)

Subjective opinion.

• Apple is known to pull last minute stunts to boost sales and media hype.

Not this again. No they aren't, and they have never done this. For all the reasons that we've already discussed several thousand times. They didn't do this with 10.0, and since that's the only example you can even come up with, you lose this argument.

Argh, looks like I'm going to have to leave the thread again - I thought we were done with this, but it's clear this is not going to go anywhere good. Bye.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

The Aqua situation is sad. I hoped for better. Oh well.

I didn't see this before...

If things don't change, expect to see alot of posts like this.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Subjective opinion.

Nope. I posted a Finder screenshot and mockup earlier in this thread that demonstrates this objectively. I know you have seen those since you commented on them. I wished you were able to discuss this honestly. It would give your opinion more weight instead of coming through as an Apple apologist.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

You're right. So the secret features were the new Finder and Stacks. And QuickLook, to the extent that its functionality is actually exposed in the new Finder.

You are again arrogantly stating that as if you know it to be fact. When it's just a guess. I simply don't understand this type of action.

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Uh, marketing? What did you expect Jobs to say, "Oh, Leopard will be pretty okay, and will have some nice new features, and you'll like it more than Vista for the same reasons you liked Tiger more than Vista."?

I don't expect him NOT to deliver. As he is known to.

He announced some "secret" features they weren't able to show yet at WWDC 2006. In reality, those features probably just were too buggy to be ready to demo at the time.

A stab in the dark. One I don't agree with.

Citation needed - although you could argue that Leopard as is is an "Aqua replacement" - it's depends on what you want to say that "Aqua" is.

This isn't Wikipedia. If you don't remember the incident then you don't remember.

Except for the most important part - the Leopard screenshots.

Ones that were Photoshoped. And that doesn't detract from my point. Why is Aqua completely gone?

Subjective opinion.

Of course it is. But saying not everyone has taste, and could tell the difference is the truth. Not everyone does. The web is full of people with no taste. Look at myspace.

Not this again. No they haven't, and they have never done this.

Apple has never pulled a last minute "Surprise" ? Oh come on Charles...

Argh, looks like I'm going to have to leave the thread again - I thought we were done with this, but it's clear this is not going to go anywhere good. Bye.

I am not doing anything. I am giving my opinion. You are treating your opinion as fact, then getting mad when people point out the fallacy in doing so.

I noticed you never mentioned the part about the other iApps also getting the new scroll bars. Probably the reason you are really "leaving"

It would have been nice to have seen an apology over that one.

But I guess I expect too much.

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

Nope. I posted a Finder screenshot and mockup earlier in this thread that demonstrates this objectively.

And most agreed.

I wished you were able to discuss this honestly. It would give your opinion more weight instead of coming through as an Apple apologist.

I am not sure it's an Apple bias, so much as he just dislikes me. And it's a anti-me bias. Either way, it's something.

If you don't are about the GUI, and don't mind it, then stop talking about it. Stop ruining the conversation for those that DO care, and ARE interested in it.

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

Not just iTunes have those scrollbars anymore Charles. All of the iApps do too. iPhoto, ICal, etc. Why would Apple put these different and new looking scroll bars in all it's Apps, but leave them out of the OS?

I was going to say that maybe Apple was going with an iApp GUI much like how they have a ProApp GUI. However, I just checked and only iTunes, iPhoto, and iMovie have those scroll bars. All the other iApps have Aqua scroll bars.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay 

I was going to say that maybe Apple was going with an iApp GUI much like how they have a ProApp GUI. However, I just checked and only iTunes, iPhoto, and iMovie have those scroll bars. All the other iApps have Aqua scroll bars.

iCal as them too. Most of the iApps that don't use the Extras.rsrc do. The others do not.

[Art Vandelay]

No it doesn't.

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

Apple has never pulled a last minute "Surprise" ? Oh come on Charles...

Not with the OS.