[Athens]

For the last 5 months I have been taking Percocet’s which is a opiate based painkiller for a condition which has now been resolved. I basically don’t need them very often any more. To date I have not suffered any side effects from them and I dropped down from 4-6 a day to one a day during work weeks with none taken on the weekends. The problem I have is not of withdrawals. I don’t suffer any and I’m not addicted to them. I don’t get high off them either like some people do. But they do have one side effect which is a good one.

They seem to help with my ADHD and a lot. So my Dilemma is should I ask my GP to continue given them to me or not. The accepted drug for ADHD is Ritalin which I can’t take because every side effect in the book hits me with them. It is doubtful he will prescribe them to me for dealing with ADHD. The positive effect has been tremendous so what would you guys do. I seem to have 3 choices in this. Stop using them totally and go back to being affected by ADHD. Try and talk my GP into prescribing them to me. Get them from other sources which are illegal. Ritalin is not an option at all. I personally rather stay status quo with a single pill a day.

[reader50]

Originally Posted by Athens 

I seem to have 3 choices in this. Stop using them totally and go back to being affected by ADHD. Try and talk my GP into prescribing them to me. Get them from other sources which are illegal.

You left out a couple choices. Offer him a bribe, or take his dog hostage.

More seriously, I'd suggest skipping Percocet for a week. Before the prescription runs out. From the sound of it, you are assuming continued Percocet is needed to keep the ADHD at bay. It is equally possible some other factor was involved, or that your ADHD has since been cured.

If your ADHD comes back, then experiment with how small a Percocet dose is needed. Like a half pill every other work day. Keep a log of what you try, and each result. Working out the details will be more convincing to your doctor, and may allow you to make a smaller request. Both will improve your chances of getting what you ask for.

[ghporter]

Percocet has side effects that aren't in the "experienced by enough test subjects to list on the documentation." One that is listed is the common opioid effect of slowing involuntary muscle motility (think "colon slowdown"). It has "unlisted" effects on neurotransmitter levels and reactivity, which is probably what you're experiencing.

Ritalin is nowhere near the only ADHD med available. There is a new generation of non-stimulant medications that improve function in ADHD in both adults and children. For example, atomoxetine and modafinil have been shown to be quite effective in controling ADHD symptoms without the side effects of stimulants. Bupropion, an antidepressant, impacts the same dopamine/serotonin system that methylphenidate does, without stimulant effects-but it is not as effective with all people as stimulants.

Get off the opioid. Faster than you have been. And see your doctor about a non-stimulant ADD med. You have a good chance of getting your life back while getting significantly more control over your focus and day-to-day performance.

[Spheric Harlot]

Opiates are evil. Worst because you don't realize until way later what they'd been doing to you.

[Thorzdad]

Percocet is crazy addicting. I've gone through two disc injuries in my life, and the first one was treated for awhile with percodan (same as percocet, except 'dan has aspirin, whereas 'cet has acetaminophen) I got very dependent on the percodan. The dependence really sneaks up on you. It's scary.

My pain of my last disc injury (back last March) was bad enough for the docs to use straight morphine. And, as lovely and delicious as that was, it was so strong that I knew I needed to get off it as soon as I could.

And, boy, do the opiates screw with your bowels. What I went through after my last disc injury was beyond constipation.

Self-treating ADHD with percocet is not a good idea. Sure, it seems to work. Hell, percocet will make just about ANY problem seem better...depression, anxiety, bad day at work, being a Cubs fan...you name it. But it's entirely the wrong tool for the job.

[Athens]

Well im not self treating yet, which is what the debate in my head is. What to do next when I dont need them which im almost at that point now.

[Thorzdad]

My advice, then, is to have a serious talk with your doc about your ADHD and that you cannot take Ritalin. I assume you have actually been diagnosed as having ADHD, yes? Your doc should be able to get you on something for that. Definitely stay away from the percocet.

[tightsocks]

Just go with whatever works.

The whole needing a prescription thing is totally a unconstitutional governmental control over health and medicine.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by tightsocks 

Just go with whatever works.

The whole needing a prescription thing is totally a unconstitutional governmental control over health and medicine.

Woah.

That's a can of worms right there!

If you think it's unconstitutional to limit access to chemicals that can be harmful when used improperly, as far as I can see, the only logical consequence is total and complete legalization of all drugs, without exception.

[macforray]

Yep, stay away from any opiate based meds unless specifically supervised by a physician. I don't believe Ritalin is the "drug of choice" any longer for ADHD. I have two children with ADHD, my son, now 13 was put on a patch because he just couldn't swallow pills. The brand name is Daytrana, and it has worked well. My daughter, aged 8, takes Intuniv orally once a day, which also works well. Ritalin is nothing more than a stimulant. One of our older children (not a child anymore) had ADHD and instead of giving her prescription meds (Ritalin was the only choice then) for it, my wife sent a 20 ounce bottle of Diet Mountain Dew to school with her every day. She was allowed half at morning snack and the rest at lunch. The teacher, whom we worked all this out with, was amazed at the impact the caffeine had on her behavior in school.
Again, stay away from the opiates and keep talking to your doctor about other options.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Originally Posted by tightsocks 

Just go with whatever works.

The whole needing a prescription thing is totally a unconstitutional governmental control over health and medicine.

Woah.

That's a can of worms right there!

If you think it's unconstitutional to limit access to chemicals that can be harmful when used improperly, as far as I can see, the only logical consequence is total and complete legalization of all drugs, without exception.

I recommend tightsocks reads The Jungle by Upton Sinclair. Though it only addresses the "food" portion of the US's Food and Drug administration, it illustrates the need for supervision rather well. Or he could look up Thalidomide. Either way.

[tightsocks]

Why should my taxes go to pay for someone else's food safety...

I can afford to buy my own high quality food!

Don't make me finance the FDA just so someone else can have clean food.

[Spheric Harlot]

And of course, the police force must be abolished because you can afford the weapons and security personnel/equipment to protect yourself from crime.

Your tax dollars surely needn't go towards others' protection.

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by tightsocks 

Why should my taxes go to pay for someone else's food safety...

I can afford to buy my own high quality food!

Don't make me finance the FDA just so someone else can have clean food.

finboy? smacintush?

[P]

Originally Posted by tightsocks 

Why should my taxes go to pay for someone else's food safety...

Because safety of its citizens is the responsibility of the state. The most extreme interpretations of market economy say that this is the ONLY responsibility the state has - if you remove that, why have a state at all?

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Woah.

That's a can of worms right there!

If you think it's unconstitutional to limit access to chemicals that can be harmful when used improperly, as far as I can see, the only logical consequence is total and complete legalization of all drugs, without exception.

Woman in water-drinking contest dies - U.S. news - Life - msnbc.com

Oxygen toxicity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Which chemicals, when used improperly, aren't harmful?

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by P 

Because safety of its citizens is the responsibility of the state. The most extreme interpretations of market economy say that this is the ONLY responsibility the state has - if you remove that, why have a state at all?

Providing for food safety isn't one of the enumerated powers of Congress, unless I missed that part of the Constitution. I'm not saying the FDA (or USDA, whichever TLA you wish) is unconstitutional, but food safety certainly isn't central to the existence or the proper role of the US federal government.

But to get back on topic, I concur with the others, Athens. See about getting on the proper medication.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by tightsocks 

Why should my taxes go to pay for someone else's food safety...

I can afford to buy my own high quality food!

Don't make me finance the FDA just so someone else can have clean food.

Food you buy in the US, unless you go rather far out of your way, meets certain minimum standards or you can bring suit-and use FDA standards as the criteria for that suit. Even "low quality" food must be processed without significant amounts of contaminants (which does not mean "no" contaminants, by the way). You benefit every time you buy food, and your (very small) contribution to the FDA (and USDA-they share food safety responsibilities) pays off in dividends you probably can't imagine. As I said, read The Jungle. That novel led directly to the Pure Food and Drug Act's passage.

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Providing for food safety isn't one of the enumerated powers of Congress, unless I missed that part of the Constitution. I'm not saying the FDA is unconstitutional, but food safety certainly isn't central to the existence of the US federal government.

Congress has powers to regulate interstate commerce, and just about every food producer deals in interstate commerce, so yes, it's part of the enumerated powers. The USDA, as mentioned earlier, deals with food safety at pretty much the producer level, and again it's handled (mostly) under the Interstate Commerce clause.

Getting back to the point of this thread...

The problems one encounters with adult ADHD pale in comparison to the problems caused by dependence on opioids. Getting off pain meds you're using to manage ADHD will be one of the most effective things to improve your quality of life you've ever done.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Woah.

That's a can of worms right there!

If you think it's unconstitutional to limit access to chemicals that can be harmful when used improperly, as far as I can see, the only logical consequence is total and complete legalization of all drugs, without exception.

They should be. Any law that is to protect one self from one owns actions is a bad law. Laws should be to protect others from harm only. hooker laws are bad, drug laws are bad and both fund underground activity thus organized crime. Police need crime to be funded and criminals needs laws like anti drug laws to stay in business. The biggest backer to keeping pot illegal in Canada are the drug dealers themselves.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by P 

Because safety of its citizens is the responsibility of the state. The most extreme interpretations of market economy say that this is the ONLY responsibility the state has - if you remove that, why have a state at all?

I would argue the responsibility of the state is to protect its citizens from each other only not protecting a person from themselves. Personal choice is about the only true and real freedom ANY one has and it should never be restricted except when one persons personal choice affects another persons personal choice at which point this is where laws to govern society should interject in what personal choice and freedom is.

Example

Its my personal choice to use Pot and feel high. <- Freedom and Personal Choice

Its the states rules that doing so I can not drive or operate complex machinery which requires absolute concentration for the safety of others. <- Protection of others personal freedoms and choice to not be put in danger by some one on drugs. Under a situation like this all parties win.

Instead its currently, State wont allow you to do drugs because it could harm you and hurt you. Well why does the state support booze and tobacco which causes more deaths then all illegal drugs combined times ten.

[Athens]

PS the withdrawal symptoms are actually hitting me now so this is not a fun time right now.

The problems one encounters with adult ADHD pale in comparison to the problems caused by dependence on opioids. Getting off pain meds you're using to manage ADHD will be one of the most effective things to improve your quality of life you've ever done.

First im not using them to manage ADHD, I just said it was a nice side effect that it was. Second how would ending the use of the pain meds improve my quality of life if they are not causing me any problems at all and currently helping me. This is very confusing this assumption that because its a drug its hindering me some way. We are not talking about some one who is Dependant on them, using more and more for a high effect and changing their life around the drug. They don't make me high, they don't provide any noticeable effect at all except for the ADHD thing. I don't crave them either. In-fact as im going on 4 days off of them and feeling the withdrawal symptoms I still don't crave them or feel I need to take them . Not every substance is addictive to every person. I am highly addicted to tobacco, but nothing else has ever seemed to affect me in any way. Drinking has no effect on me just like the Percacets. Some people can do Cocaine and never form a habit forming addiction. Others just have to take it once and are ruined. So lets be clear here for this topic. I am not Dependant or addicted to and have no desire to use said medications.

The question is about using a drug for a different purpose then its intended purpose because the effect has proven to be very desirable with out the issues of side effects from the current accepted drugs on the market.

PS PS, I am feeling cranky so I hope I don't come across as to much of a dick while I get through these with-drawling symptoms.

[Athens]

I like the idea of Opioids because its natural vs synthetic drugs even though Oxycedone is a partially synthetic drug. I don't like using unnatural substances. I do have a health concern with the Aspirin component of the pills too. I would much rather be taking the opioid part of it alone with say sugar to build the filler. Its the Acetaminophen part of the pills which is bad for the liver.

[tightsocks]

Originally Posted by Athens 

I like the idea of Opioids because its natural vs synthetic drugs .

Dr. Feelgood's Morphine made from 100% Certified Organic Poppies!

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Athens 

PS the withdrawal symptoms are actually hitting me now so this is not a fun time right now.

First im not using them to manage ADHD, I just said it was a nice side effect that it was. Second how would ending the use of the pain meds improve my quality of life if they are not causing me any problems at all and currently helping me. This is very confusing this assumption that because its a drug its hindering me some way. We are not talking about some one who is Dependant on them, using more and more for a high effect and changing their life around the drug. They don't make me high, they don't provide any noticeable effect at all except for the ADHD thing. I don't crave them either. In-fact as im going on 4 days off of them and feeling the withdrawal symptoms I still don't crave them or feel I need to take them . Not every substance is addictive to every person. I am highly addicted to tobacco, but nothing else has ever seemed to affect me in any way. Drinking has no effect on me just like the Percacets. Some people can do Cocaine and never form a habit forming addiction. Others just have to take it once and are ruined. So lets be clear here for this topic. I am not Dependant or addicted to and have no desire to use said medications.

The question is about using a drug for a different purpose then its intended purpose because the effect has proven to be very desirable with out the issues of side effects from the current accepted drugs on the market.

PS PS, I am feeling cranky so I hope I don't come across as to much of a dick while I get through these with-drawling symptoms.

You don't notice the effects because you're no longer sensitive to most of them. This is common with opioids-they aren't very effective after extended use for less than severe pain. The ADHD effects you're feeling were there all along, but while you were paying attention to relieving the pain you may not have noticed them. On the other hand, as you're noting right now, the way opioids work includes basically "cloaking" a huge number of neurotransmitter receptors. That is what gives you the ADHD control effects, and it's what's causing your withdrawal discomfort too-those receptors are highly sensitized and your brain isn't used to inputs from all of them. Fortunately, oxycodone is relatively easy to withdraw from compared to other opioids.

Originally Posted by Athens 

I like the idea of Opioids because its natural vs synthetic drugs even though Oxycedone is a partially synthetic drug. I don't like using unnatural substances. I do have a health concern with the Aspirin component of the pills too. I would much rather be taking the opioid part of it alone with say sugar to build the filler. Its the Acetaminophen part of the pills which is bad for the liver.

Oxycodone is ALL synthetic. A chemical salt called thebaine, remotely derived from opium base, is the source of the drug's opioid effects. Your liver converts the codeine-like components into chemistry that impacts opioid receptors in your brain. To contrast, tobacco is "natural," and I'm sure you know a lot about its negative effects.

With that said, reducing your tobacco use could allow you to achieve many ADHD improvements with very simple (and natural) approaches. Nicotine has depressant effects on much of the body, especially the brain, while caffeine has very well documented impacts on ADHD symptoms.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

You don't notice the effects because you're no longer sensitive to most of them. This is common with opioids-they aren't very effective after extended use for less than severe pain. The ADHD effects you're feeling were there all along, but while you were paying attention to relieving the pain you may not have noticed them. On the other hand, as you're noting right now, the way opioids work includes basically "cloaking" a huge number of neurotransmitter receptors. That is what gives you the ADHD control effects, and it's what's causing your withdrawal discomfort too-those receptors are highly sensitized and your brain isn't used to inputs from all of them. Fortunately, oxycodone is relatively easy to withdraw from compared to other opioids.

Oxycodone is ALL synthetic. A chemical salt called thebaine, remotely derived from opium base, is the source of the drug's opioid effects. Your liver converts the codeine-like components into chemistry that impacts opioid receptors in your brain. To contrast, tobacco is "natural," and I'm sure you know a lot about its negative effects.

With that said, reducing your tobacco use could allow you to achieve many ADHD improvements with very simple (and natural) approaches. Nicotine has depressant effects on much of the body, especially the brain, while caffeine has very well documented impacts on ADHD symptoms.

I gave up Caffeine a few months ago. My ADHD was a problem long before I started smoking which was in my mid adult years too. I thought Oxycodone was only partially synthetic, things like Tramacets where fully synthetic. I became tollerent of Percs pretty quickly. Started out with 2 a day for 2-3 months then when the issue became much worse I was using 6-8 a day for 2 months until the issue got resolved. Post op I was down to 3 a day for a week, then one a day for the last month. I always knew I would be suffering from withdrawls like I am now, but unlike smokes I got no problems with it. I don't actually crave it or feel I need it. The wirthdrawls suck but it has not been hard.

[tightsocks]

Are you in the US?

If so, I would imagine that the current Republican congress would be sympathetic to your situation. Just tell them that you are concerned about the governmental restrictions which are preventing you from receiving your desired form of treatment (ie morphine for ADHD). I'm sure that they will repeal any laws that are interfering with your healthcare.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by tightsocks 

Are you in the US?

If so, I would imagine that the current Republican congress would be sympathetic to your situation. Just tell them that you are concerned about the governmental restrictions which are preventing you from receiving your desired form of treatment (ie morphine for ADHD). I'm sure that they will repeal any laws that are interfering with your healthcare.

Canada which means it's not a government issue but a doctor patient issue. The problem is doctors are trained to use only accepted methods so unless you have a doctor open to trying uncommon treatments it's not going to happen. The final say on stuff like this is from the doctor.