[icruise]

Originally Posted by Eug 

This is a similar argument that existed before the iPod mini came out. Why make a smaller, sleeker iPod for less money?

The difference is that the iPod mini had a clear advantage over regular iPods in one area -- size. Your version of the widescreen iPod would be better than the iPhone in every way except that it didn't have a phone. I think a LOT of people would be more than willing to just keep their current cell phones if they could get 90% of the iPhone for around half the price and with no contract.

[analogika]

Whatever happens, I expect the first major iPhone software update at the same time as the next generation of iPods are released.

Apple will re-arrange the playing-field a bit by padding out the iPhone's offerings a bit, I'd bet.

[Dakarʒ]

That's a good thought.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Simon 

I hope WiFi stays an iPhone feature. I want a slim iPod with no additional 802.11 circuitry, no OS X, no web/email, and all the battery juice used just for playing my movies and audio. Right now the iPod is a media device and the iPhone is the communication device. I hope it stays that way. With time iPhone memory capacity will increase and iPod prices will come further down. And that's perfectly ok.

I'd like to see a widescreen Coverflow iPod with about 80 GB capacity in a 8 mm thick package. Battery life should be enough for 5h of video. Lose the scroll wheel so the iPod doesn't have to be substantially bigger than its screen. Use touchscreen controls similar to the iPhone.

WiFi doesn't take up much space these days. Battery juice can be identical, if one should choose to turn off WiFi searching. OS X is a natural progression of the technology, considering that Apple probably wants to move away from licencing the iPods' OS. And of course CoverFlow would probably be much harder to implement without OS X support.

I personally think that CoverFlow and OS X will be in the new iPod (eventually). I'm not so sure that WiFi will be, but I think it's a definite possibility. It's also possible that Apple will release two types of video iPods, one without WiFi/Safari and one with it.

The latter would be necessary for iTunes/Airport Express remote functionality.

Originally Posted by icruise 

The difference is that the iPod mini had a clear advantage over regular iPods in one area -- size. Your version of the widescreen iPod would be better than the iPhone in every way except that it didn't have a phone. I think a LOT of people would be more than willing to just keep their current cell phones if they could get 90% of the iPhone for around half the price and with no contract.

Yes. And that "a lot" of people would be far more people than iPhone buyers. In other words, Apple would do very well to get that customer base. Sure, it'd hurt AT&T, but I'm sure Apple doesn't give a crap if AT&T suffers as long as Apple itself is doing well.

Indeed, I wonder if AT&T worked into the contract a specified delay time before a widescreen touchscreen iPod were released.

P.S. I sold my 3G iPod and bought an iPod mini when it came out.

[icruise]

I don't think Apple is very concerned about AT&T doing well per se, but since they reportedly get a share of the wireless proceeds and want the iPhone to succeed as a product and as a platform (to the extent that you can call web apps a platform), it's not in their best interest to undermine the iPhone. Again, a widescreen iPod with just the iPhone's music and video features would still sell like hotcakes.

[icruise]

On the other hand, if they could make an iPod like you describe, it would totally destroy any other MP3 player on the market. Who would buy a Zune in preference to one of those? And you can certainly argue that the iPod is more important to Apple than the iPhone, and that cementing their hold on the MP3 player market would be worth possibly losing some iPhone sales. So I suppose it could go either way.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by icruise 

I don't think Apple is very concerned about AT&T doing well per se, but since they reportedly get a share of the wireless proceeds and want the iPhone to succeed as a product and as a platform (to the extent that you can call web apps a platform), it's not in their best interest to undermine the iPhone. Again, a widescreen iPod with just the iPhone's music and video features would still sell like hotcakes.

Originally Posted by icruise 

On the other hand, if they could make an iPod like you describe, it would totally destroy any other MP3 player on the market. Who would buy a Zune in preference to one of those? And you can certainly argue that the iPod is more important to Apple than the iPhone, and that cementing their hold on the MP3 player market would be worth possibly losing some iPhone sales. So I suppose it could go either way.

I think both views are true to an extent.

An iPhone-like iPod doesn't undermine the iPhone. An iPhone-like iPod further solidifies the iPod/iPhone platform. As a music player, the tarted-up iPod blows anything else out of the water. As a phone, the iPhone blows most other stuff out of the water. The iPhone makes the sister iPod look good. The tarted-up iPod makes the sister iPhone look good. And they both make lots of money for Apple going forward.

Note though, in my view, ultimately the iPhone market IS the iPod market. Just as PDAs started to die as phones got more sophisticated, I think the iPod market will start to die as phones get more sophisticated.

As of 2007, it actually makes sense to have 8 GB of storage in a freakin' phone, and by 2009, 16 GB will actually be cheap. (My very first hard drive was 25 MB or something ridiculously low like that.) It would be stupid not to try to be the king of this market. Dominating the iPod market and making a killer device in the phone market draws in both groups of people to when the iPhone becomes the dominant portable media player in Apple's lineup. It's of note that Sony has already tried this. However, they have failed because their portable media player functionality of their phones kinda sucks, and their devices aren't backed up by killer software like iTunes.

However, that time when the iPhone takes over from the iPod is years off, and in the meantime Apple needs to satisfy the rest of the world's mere mortals with a cheaper non-phone device.

P.S. The iPhone and iPod could share most accessories, and in fact they already do to an extent now.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Your version of the widescreen iPod would be better than the iPhone in every way except that it didn't have a phone. I think a LOT of people would be more than willing to just keep their current cell phones if they could get 90% of the iPhone for around half the price and with no contract.

Exactly. The "iPhone minus phone" iPod would be more expensive than the current iPod and at the same time reduce iPhone revenue. If anything Apple wants to lure people from cheaper iPods to the more expensive iPhone. Making an iPod become more like an iPhone is going against that.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Exactly. The "iPhone minus phone" iPod would be more expensive than the current iPod and at the same time reduce iPhone revenue. If anything Apple wants to lure people from cheaper iPods to the more expensive iPhone. Making an iPod become more like an iPhone is going against that.

Which is why I assume Apple will differentiate the iPhone further through software updates.

[kentuckyfried]

It's coming, eventually. The ipod+laptop promotion's typically to clear out the old inventory. That's exactly what happened with the release of the first nano. It was timed pretty much right after that promo ended.

They'd be stupid not to release for the rest of us. Main point in contention is that Apple needs to stay competitive in the mp3 player business. The next logical step is video, which they do already have. But currently aside from the iPhone, the reigning champ for portable video playback is the PSP in regards to real estate. It's relatively easy for Apple to usurp them though if they can match or exceed the display size, and ALSO provide a much better UI than the PSP can currently offer. I'm not saying that PSP's is bad, but the fact that a person has to jump through so many hoops to convert a DVD into an MP4, or even an AVI into an MP4, is an issue begging for an simplified, integrated solution. As it stands right now, even though FFMPEGX is available to do all the video conversion, it's too complicated for the average lazy non-geeky person to delve into.

Originally Posted by Eug 

I'm selling my iPod. I want more. (I'll use my iPod mini for the time being.)

However, I don't want the current iPhone. It's moot anyway, since I'm not in the US (and don't want a 2-year contract either).

I wish Apple would release a widescreen video iPod already. It's been a long time coming. It'd be cool with the WiFi and PDA-like features utilizing a touch screen, but not a requirement, especially if I could get one for US$249.

And don't tell me the iPhone IS the widescreen video iPod, cuz it isn't. Not when it costs $600 or 8 GB anyway.

Here's hoping for an August release. BTW, it's been 39 weeks since the last significant iPod update.

[icruise]

Do normal people really use the PSP as a video player? Maybe for UMD movies to some extent, but it's so difficult to convert and transfer video that I seriously doubt a very large percentage of PSP owners do it. I certainly wouldn't expect a new iPod to exceed the PSP in terms of screen size (after all, it needs to remain more or less the same physical size), and I also don't think it has to. The iPhone's screen is nearly as big in a product only a fraction of the PSP's size and weight. I love my PSP for games, but as an iPod replacement it's terrible.

[Eug]

It shouldn't be hard to convert video to the PSP. Software like Handbrake already has presets for it. I was thinking about getting the PSP. The main problem is that its H.264 bitrate support isn't the greatest, and the unit is too big. The price is quite reasonable though.

As for the video size on a widescreen iPod, I think it would be fine. I've watched video on the 5G iPod, and that really is too small (esp. considering it's a 4:3 screen, so there's a lot of wasted space with 16:9 material), but I don't need a 6" screen either.

The iPod is 4:3 at 2.5". The iPhone is also still only 4:3, but it's 3.5". That means their dimensions are 1.5x2 and 2.1x3.2 respectively. That's an enormous difference - The iPhone has over twice as much screen real estate:

(3.2x2.1) / (2.0x1.5) = 2.24X

Both would still use 640x480 H.264. It's too bad that the iPhone couldn't use higher quality H.264, since Baseline-LC profile leaves a little something to be desired. At the same bitrate, 640x480 Main profile would rock (for TV output), but I wouldn't expect that any time soon in a portable device like the iPod.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Eug 

It shouldn't be hard to convert video to the PSP. Software like Handbrake already has presets for it.

I'm sure you and I can figure it out, but we're not exactly the average consumer. (That said, when I tried to watch some video on my PSP the other day i couldn't remember where to put it on the memory stick or what the file naming conventions were, so it's not exactly a snap.) I would imagine that most people who watch video on their iPods are watching premade content like videos purchased from the iTunes Store, video podcasts and the like. That's difficult to do with the PSP. And of course, you're limited to 4GB (or possibly 8GB, if the 8GB MS Duo has finally come out) and getting that storage requires an additional purchase which could cost more than than the PSP itself.

The other problem is that there isn't really an "iTunes" equivalent for the PSP, so managing and transferring media is much harder than it should be. Sony does have a software package that they sell separately, which I haven't tried, but my experience with Sony software hasn't been stellar.

When you combine the PSP's huge (for a PMP) size and weight, it's not surprising that few people use its non-gaming features.

[Eug]

MR: 6G iPod User Interface Redesign and Videos



World Clock
Now Playing
Cover art thumbnails

This is all strictly rumour of course, I but I have wondered if they would attempt revamping the OS while keeping the clickwheel.

That in itself doesn't bother me, as I like the clickwheel. What would annoy me is if the thing had the same size screen as before, and I note that the screengrab has the same rez as the current iPod 5.5G.

Also, something like this would likely mean no WiFi.

[cmoney]

Yeah those screen videos have mostly been debunked. Look frame by frame for:

ipodnp.mp4: battery level going up when going from menu selection to now playing
ipodwc.mp4: time in addis ababa changing from 10:55 to 5:55 when it's selected

[icruise]

Well, don't forget that the official iPhone video listed a capacity of 80GB for a while there. It's not inconceivable that those mistakes are just the result of sloppy editing.

[kentuckyfried]

damnit man, are you implying that I'm abnormal?

When I was on travel, or working out in the gym, I used the PSP heavily as a video player. What I'd do is grab the files online as AVI's and then convert them at night while I was sleeping.
So it was in this way that I was able to watch entire t.v. series like Arrested Development and Firefly. It was a great system and it saved me the agony of having to watch soundless playback of Farscape or boring sports events.

It it's a touchscreen iPod that has comparable dimensions to the existing video iPod, it will end up having the advantage over the PSP b/c the surface area of the top face exceeds the viewing area of the PSP (just by a little).

Originally Posted by icruise 

Do normal people really use the PSP as a video player? Maybe for UMD movies to some extent, but it's so difficult to convert and transfer video that I seriously doubt a very large percentage of PSP owners do it. I certainly wouldn't expect a new iPod to exceed the PSP in terms of screen size (after all, it needs to remain more or less the same physical size), and I also don't think it has to. The iPhone's screen is nearly as big in a product only a fraction of the PSP's size and weight. I love my PSP for games, but as an iPod replacement it's terrible.

[icruise]

I wouldn't expect the iPod to have a bigger screen than the iPhone, which is a bit smaller than the PSP's. And yes, you're abnormal!

[Eug]

In truth, anyone who uses the iPod heavily for video playback is abnormal. Welcome to the club.

[macgeek2005]

If the new iPod still isnt widescreen, i'll almost be a little relieved. I'll be able to take the money that i've saved up for a widescreen iPod, and put it towards a Blu-Ray Drive, or an X2900XT video card.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Eug 

MR: 6G iPod User Interface Redesign and Videos



World Clock
Now Playing
Cover art thumbnails

This is all strictly rumour of course, I but I have wondered if they would attempt revamping the OS while keeping the clickwheel.

That in itself doesn't bother me, as I like the clickwheel. What would annoy me is if the thing had the same size screen as before, and I note that the screengrab has the same rez as the current iPod 5.5G.

Also, something like this would likely mean no WiFi.

Did somebody grab that stuff before the C&D?

Please PM me if you have!

[icruise]

Say It Ain't So: Rumored 6G iPod User Interface May Be Real, But Old News - Gizmodo

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Did somebody grab that stuff before the C&D?

Now Playing
Thumbnail cover art
World Clock
DJ

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Eug 

DJ

Thanks!

[Gig103]

Forget all the Wifi and PDA options.

I am most interested in an iPod that has the iPhone screen for watching my videos!

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Gig103 

Forget all the Wifi and PDA options.

I am most interested in an iPod that has the iPhone screen for watching my videos!

Seconded.

[Eug]

TS: iPod update on the horizon

Apple's full-size iPod is being primed for an update that could arrive as early as the first-half of August, sources report. The revision will feature neither a touch-screen nor will run a scaled down version of Mac OS X like the iPhone, however—those updates are not scheduled until 2008.

Apple engineers are said to have shaved the height of the iPod while maintaining the same 320x240 resolution display and click-wheel as the current 5.5G iPod. The saved space will shrink about an inch off the device and give it proportions that in some ways more resemble a BlackBerry.

The new iPod, which Apple will most likely refer to as the 6G model, will also be the first to sport a refreshed iPod OS. Sources have confirmed that the recent leak of a video featuring shots of the new operating system are legitimate and say the interface borrows several design cues from the iPhone.

[icruise]

Doesn't sound too promising for the people hoping for an "iPhone without the phone."

[theDreamer]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Doesn't sound too promising for the people hoping for an "iPhone without the phone."

Which I think will upset some people, but in the long run this will allow the iPhone to make a dent without the iPod being any competition at all. Though when the iPod does come out with a touchscreen (maybe OS X watered down) the iPhone better have something that makes it stand out.

[Visnaut]

Even if the 6G iPod is not what us geeks are wanting (full touch-screen, OS X), I'm sure the masses will buy it in droves. Otherwise, iPod sales would have fallen flat by now.

I personally will hold off until there is an OS X based touch-screen iPod. Hopefully MWSF will be the ticket for that.

[Simon]

Such a 6G iPod would be a smart business decision on Apple's behalf. There's really no point in making the iPod close in one the iPhone this early in the game.

[unhappyending]

Forget the WiFi on the iPod, that's what the iPhone is for. I think and vision the iPod as a music, video and photo device not a internet device. Make the 6th Gen not even close to the iPhone, make it basically something different from the iPhone all I care about. After I buy Leopard, I'm going to buy a 6th Gen or a 5.5 Gen iPod, which ever is out at that time. If it's a iPhone based after all, I'll stay with my good old nano.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by unhappyending 

Forget the WiFi on the iPod, that's what the iPhone is for.

Hmmm... And I thought the iPhone was for making phone calls...

As far as I'm concerned. Having WiFi on an iPod is no more unreasonable than having WiFi on an iPhone.

That said, I'm not expecting it. I just think it'd be a nice bonus.

[Gig103]

Originally Posted by Eug 

TS: iPod update on the horizon

[i]Apple's full-size iPod is being primed for an update that could arrive as early as the first-half of August, sources report. The revision will feature neither a touch-screen nor will run a scaled down version of Mac OS X like the iPhone, however—those updates are not scheduled until 2008.

What about this conflicting report from Apple Insider, though? It gives me hope...
AppleInsider | Goldman: Apple prepping redesigned iMacs, full-screen iPods

The analyst, who did not cite sources, said he also expects the company to launch a new family of iPods around the same time, which will pack significantly greater functionality at current price points,
"including the much-anticipated full screen video iPod."

[Dakarʒ]

I'm curious what kind of upgrade it will be, wihtout OS X or touch capabilities.

[theDreamer]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

I'm curious what kind of upgrade it will be, wihtout OS X or touch capabilities.

Probably just a UI upgrade, in the form of how you browse your music, maybe add a cover flow style like on the iPhone, but interaction will be with a click wheel.

[cmoney]

Methinks his sources were probably appleinsider and think secret.

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by theDreamer 

Probably just a UI upgrade, in the form of how you browse your music, maybe add a cover flow style like on the iPhone, but interaction will be with a click wheel.

Sounds like an update they could add to the current gen models. I suspect it has to be more than that.

[handbent]

i would most definitely buy a widescreen ipod, i agree that the iphone is way too pricey

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Gig103 

What about this conflicting report from Apple Insider, though? It gives me hope...
AppleInsider | Goldman: Apple prepping redesigned iMacs, full-screen iPods

The analyst, who did not cite sources, said he also expects the company to launch a new family of iPods around the same time, which will pack significantly greater functionality at current price points,
"including the much-anticipated full screen video iPod."

That's an analyst's speculation. Or perhaps he was just reading this thread...

[analogika]

Originally Posted by handbent 

i would most definitely buy a widescreen ipod, i agree that the iphone is way too pricey

Whom are you agreeing with?

I think you're the first to claim that the iPhone is too pricey (which it isn't for what it is).

[Eug]

DigiTimes: 16 GB flash iPod video

Apple is said to be about to unveil its NAND flash-based iPod video in late September, which may aggravate the currently observed NAND flash shortages, according to sources at Taiwan-based component makers.

The new iPod video will use NAND flash as the major storage media, and will have a storage density of 16GB, according to the sources. With the launch of the new iPod imminent, together with the recently reported power outage experienced by Samsung Electronics at its fabs, component makers are concerned that overall NAND flash supply may be impacted.

Originally Posted by analogika 

Whom are you agreeing with?

I think you're the first to claim that the iPhone is too pricey (which it isn't for what it is).

I think the iPhone is quite pricey, given that it's a phone that requires signing up with AT&T yet still requires you to pay more than most other high end unlocked phones.

[mattco72]

I would personally love an iPhone-esque Mac PDA that syncs well with my Macbook Pro. I can never get my Palm to work right and my iPaq really stinks with it, and that is why both stay in a box in my room.

With that said, I would also like a phone that I can use on Verizon that syncs well with my mac. I don't need touch screens and internet and everything else with it, just a basic fliphone that I can throw a few songs to use as ringtones on it while it being durable enough to carry around outside with me. And I know that Verizon is mostly to blame for crippling phones and forcing people into buying their crappy services for big dollars, but they have the best coverage.

[michellec]

I used to be a big fan of the video ipod, than I got my iphone. until the ipod gets wifi, wide screen just won't cut it for me.

check out our video.

mooncatventures.blogspot.com

[Eug]

AppleInsider: Apple to usher in era of Mac OS X-based iPods

People familiar with this year's plans say Apple's iPod roadmap for the fall now calls for as many as four new models -- most, if not all, will employ NAND flash -- including major evolutions of both the flagship video iPod and iPod nano lines. It's these two iPod product families which are expected to receive the Mac OS treatment, though to varying degrees.

Sources in the Far East -- where Apple manufacturers its digital music players -- have recently vouched for sightings of a "full screen" iPod, which they believe will finally make its debut ahead of this year's holiday shopping season. The players are said to run a derivative of the Mac OS-based iPod software introduced as part of the company's iPhone handset back in June.

What's interesting, however, is that the Apple has also been working on Mac OS-based iPod software for models that will retain their click-wheels -- such as third-generation iPod nanos. Interface concept videos recently published and then pulled from MacRumors consisted of genuine Apple material to this effect, AppleInsider can confirm.


Ars: Major Apple event on September 5th

The company plans to drop the bomb on us with a major unveiling during the first week of September—specifically, September 5, according to our sources within the company.

The fifth is odd day for an event (a Wednesday instead of the typical Tuesday), but we are told that the reason for this is the long holiday weekend. Whatever you say, your Steveness. It's also possible that Apple will make announcements on the 5th while shipping later in the month, which would validate the date range provided by AI's sources.


Think Secret: New iPods due soon

While Think Secret sources have as of yet been unable to confirm that Wednesday media event, they have privately relayed for some weeks now that new iPods will be in consumer hands by September 7.

[sanford]

Originally Posted by michellec 

I used to be a big fan of the video ipod, than I got my iphone. until the ipod gets wifi, wide screen just won't cut it for me.

check out our video.

mooncatventures.blogspot.com

Michelle, I'm completely the other way round. I could care less for WiFi on an iPod. In fact, I'm even more partial to the click wheel than the touch interface for a large capacity (hard drive) iPod, not owning an iPhone but having used one extensively. But the touch interface is innovative and truly unique, and no matter an entirely new interface or a refinement of the 5G iPod interface, I'll be buying one the moment the new full capacity (30GB, hopefully 40GB, or greater) are available -- well, I've started having mine engraved, so if they still engrave on the new ones, as soon as they can get it engraved and shipped to me. And I'll keep my 5G, too, in case I decide I really just prefer it.

Which brings up a couple of what I think are good points about iPhone and iPods: there's more diversity in personal preference with iPhone and/or iPod users than you'd think; it's not merely a bunch of trend followers. And, customers have various specific needs and wants of their portable Apple media and communications devices I think Apple has little to worry about in cannibalizing sales by adding some significant features of one line to the devices of another line.

(I did almost actually buy an iPhone, but was stopped by two things: it would have become my iPod, too, of course -- I can't imagine maintaining both devices -- and 8GB, perhaps ridiculously, is not enough for what I want to carry of my media, mostly music, collection; that and I almost never talk on a mobile phone, don't want to check email when I'm out or browse or look up information on the Web while on the go, either. I would have been a terrible iPhone customer. Still it's a neat device and I see why you like it so. But for me, I'm hoping the rumors are true and I can place my order for quick delivery of a new sixth generation iPod right around Sept. 5th. WiFi would just be a little fringe benefit, I suppose.)

[Eug]

If the next iPod has WiFi, then the touchscreen interface would be an absolute requirement IMO.
However, if it doesn't have WiFi, then the touchscreen becomes less interesting.

[Eriamjh]

I revise my earlier requirements. Now I want my Touch-screen Video iPod to have a 160GB HDD.

PC World - Samsung Launches Tiny 160GB Hard Drive

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

I revise my earlier requirements. Now I want my Touch-screen Video iPod to have a 160GB HDD.

PC World - Samsung Launches Tiny 160GB Hard Drive

I'd prefer 16 GB flash actually. Yeah, 32 GB would be much preferred, but unfortunately it costs too much at this time.

[icruise]

Why would you prefer 16GB flash? It seems to me that the appeal of the full-sized iPods is being able to store all of your music. 16GB isn't that big of a step up from 8GB.