[CreepingDeth]

Originally posted by MacGorilla:
I don't know how I feel about his death...I guess I'm only sad on the level that a wife lost her husband. Arafat was an enigma...I don't know what history will make of him.

Don't worry. She's a poor old one who's only receiving $22 million from the PA every year. Arafat didn't leave her ****.

[OAW]

Originally posted by itai195:
Who has been persecuted to a similar degree?

Plenty have. They just don't get the same kind of press.

Originally posted by itai195:

Certainly not the Palestinians, though they have suffered greatly.

Indeed. Primarily at the hands of Israelis.

Originally posted by itai195:

Jews today are reacting to centuries of intense persecution and finally standing up for themselves.

Intense persecution by whom? Certainly not the Palestinians! The bottom line in this whole Arab-Israeli conflict is that European so-called Christians couldn't get along with European so-called Jews for centuries and that persecution culminated in the great atrocity called the Holocaust. So Europeans then decided to solve their "Jewish Problem" on the backs of the Palestinians ... a people who didn't have a damned thing to do with the conflict whatsoever! So now you have a bunch of Germans and Russians and other Europeans living in a land that they are not from claiming to have more "right" to that land than the people that they displaced who had been living there for centuries. And then they wonder why the Palestinians have beef with them!

But since this thread is about Arafat I will say this about him. Love him or hate him ... he symbolized the struggle of the Palestinian people. The good, the bad, and the ugly. IMO his cause was just ... though his methods were often not. Does the end justify the means? I suppose it depends upon your perspective or which side of the fence you are on. One thing that can't be denied, however, is that the "means" did succeed in putting the Palestinian cause on the radar screen of the world. It would hardly be discussed on these forums, in the mass media, let alone be a perennial topic of political debate were it not for white people (primarily Israelis) catching bullets and shrapnel over the issue. Take a look at the Kurds and the struggle for their homeland and then compare the amount of attention that conflict receives in the Western media to the Arab-Israeli conflict. Big difference. Why? Because you don't have Westerners losing their lives over it. Period. There are those in power who won't even discuss let alone do right simply because it is just. They only respond to violence. And that's a pretty sad commentary on the state of the world today.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. My view of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict can be summed up with what I call the "4 'I's":

"Israeli Intransigence makes the Indefensible Inevitable."

Arafat is gone and my condolences go out to his family and to his people. The man is gone but his struggle continues. Hopefully, now that he is gone the Israelis will be a little less intransigent and back off their "our security at all costs" attitude and show a willingness to deal with the key issues of Jerusalem and the Right of Return. Hopefully, the Palestinians will realize that even though they have a right to every square inch of Palestine the Israelis are there now and they aren't going anywhere because they have bigger guns and a patron nation (the USA) with even bigger guns than that. Hopefully both sides will realize that a true compromise is needed in order to make peace. One where both sides will be happy about some things and pissed off about other things in the deal. Unfortunately, I suspect what will actually happen is that the Israelis will seek capitulation from the so-called "moderate" Palestinian leadership ... and the Palestinians will refuse and seek to give the Israelis as much hell as is humanly possible. And the suicide bombers will continue to explode while the helicopter gunship rocket attacks continue to launch .... with innocent civilians on both sides getting killed over the foolishness.

OAW

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by MacGorilla:
I don't know how I feel about his death...I guess I'm only sad on the level that a wife lost her husband. Arafat was an enigma...I don't know what history will make of him.

You are kidding, right?

If you have read everything in this thread and still (seriously) feel that way, let me try to put it in a different way.

If you were to take the total number of men, women and children civilians Arafat is responsible for killing, it would be the same as if he personally were responsible for every homicide in NYC for *17 years.

*2002 NYC murders = 590

I can be respectful of the dead and not gloat. But the world is better off without him in it. He did many, many terrible things, to his own people, the Israelis and others.

[vmarks]

Originally posted by OAW:

Intense persecution by whom? Certainly not the Palestinians!

At http://dhimmitude.org you can read about the kind of persecution the Jews and Christians suffered at the hands of the Palestinians.

[maxx9photo]

Funny to see how people are deabating whose right whose wrong, and God is only laughing watching us! for all mistakes that human being have been made for the beginning till the end.

[itai195]

Originally posted by OAW:
Intense persecution by whom? Certainly not the Palestinians! The bottom line in this whole Arab-Israeli conflict is that European so-called Christians couldn't get along with European so-called Jews for centuries and that persecution culminated in the great atrocity called the Holocaust. So Europeans then decided to solve their "Jewish Problem" on the backs of the Palestinians ... a people who didn't have a damned thing to do with the conflict whatsoever!

We've had this discussion before and I think I ended up claiming that your description is an oversimplification, as if sephardic Jews don't exist and never suffered persecution. Either way, again, I did not mean to claim the Holocaust as an excuse for Israeli behavior or creation of the state, just as an explanation for the Israeli mentality. Forgive me if I place too much importance on the Holocaust, but I'm Jewish myself so it does strike a chord.

Your four I's are interesting though. I'd say both sides are intransigent; both think they've already offered major concessions. Neither side seems to truly want peace.

[moki]

Arafat, the Monster

Arafat's fortune

KGB created and financed

[aberdeenwriter]

Newborn Twins Named Yasser and Arafat


GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) - When Safra Hassan went into labor Thursday, she told her husband she wanted to name their child Yasser after Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, who died hours earlier.
http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/sto...99.htm&sc=1107

It was only in the delivery room at Gaza's Shifa Hospital that Hassan, 32, discovered she was carrying twin boys.
``I looked at my husband and I said, we will call them Yasser and Arafat,'' she told The Associated Press. ``I'm so proud that the name of Yasser Arafat will be in my house every day, just as the name of Yasser Arafat will be in every Palestinian house forever.''
The boys, each weighing about 4 1/2 pounds, are doing well, doctors said. Safra Hassan and her husband, Rafiq, have two other children, a 7-year-old daughter and a 5-year-old son.
Safra Hassan said naming her infants for Arafat was a small gesture compared to the sacrifices he made in pursuit of Palestinian statehood.

``I hope that my children will grow up in peace and will witness Yasser Arafat's dreams become reality,'' she said.


11/11/04 13:27

[lil'babykitten]

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten: [/B]

You're just being intentionally provocotive!

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
You're just being intentionally provocotive!

And you aren't?

[PacHead]

I also heard his wife is getting 22 mill a year from now on ? Nice scam she and arafat had going on, while the average palestinian is poor as dirt. The handouts they get from the EU etc., are meant for the people, not for some wife of a terrorist living the highlife in chirac france.

[Abu Bakr]

Bismillah Hir Rehman Nir Rahim

Today the media tells us that a father, a husband and a great man will be buried. Today the media tells us that the father of us Palestinians will be buried. But Arafat is the people of Palestine and the people of Palestine don't die. Today the body of a father, a husband and a great man will be buried but your soul will inspire the rest of us to make sure our common dream, the dream you have held alight when the world has forgotten us, the dream that one day we will have a nation free from occupation, a dream that we will have a nation free from fighting, a dream that we will have a nation where we can go to Masjid al-Aqsa to pray, a nation where we are able to fulfil our dreams, today and for eternity your soul will remind us to never waiver our rights even if that would be the easy way out, today and for eternity your soul will remind us to continue the intifada until we are free. And when we become a free people, be it tomorrow or the day before the Day of Judgement, we will remember you and thank you.

Arafat is the people of Palestine and the people of Palestine don't die.


Inna lillaahi wa innaa ilaihir
raaji'uun.
Allaahummah ajirnee fee
museebatee we akhlif lahuu
khairan minhaa.

[Cody Dawg]

Wow.

This thread is getting rather creepy.

<looks around>

[Splinter]

nice pictures... I personally prefer:

http://www.n00bstories.com/image.fet...?id=1026996392



gah someone please host that image on a site that can work with the [img] tags.

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Splinter:
nice pictures... I personally prefer:

http://www.n00bstories.com/image.fet...?id=1026996392

Seek help.

[UnixMac]

Originally posted by itai195:
We've had this discussion before and I think I ended up claiming that your description is an oversimplification, as if sephardic Jews don't exist and never suffered persecution. Either way, again, I did not mean to claim the Holocaust as an excuse for Israeli behavior or creation of the state, just as an explanation for the Israeli mentality. Forgive me if I place too much importance on the Holocaust, but I'm Jewish myself so it does strike a chord.

Your four I's are interesting though. I'd say both sides are intransigent; both think they've already offered major concessions. Neither side seems to truly want peace.

And as it should, that was a horrible stage in human history, but so does that mean that your people should inflict a watered down version of it on the native population of that region just because in your version of the bible, this land is know as a "jewish homland"? Sure some Christian Right groupes also teach this, but the largest Christian groups (The Roman Catholic, Easter Churches, and Lutheran, Anglecan) all teach that the New Covenenant supersedes the Old. Therefore, no more Jewish Homeland.... they are now to be scattered around the Earth (not a bad idea, since Jewish is a religion, and not a race).

For God's sake, 90% of Israeli's living there are from Europe or Russia!! They can't even speak the native languages (arameic, arabic, and hebrew) half the time!

[BoomStick]

Originally posted by Splinter:
nice pictures... I personally prefer:

http://www.n00bstories.com/image.fet...?id=1026996392



gah someone please host that image on a site that can work with the [img] tags.

HOLY CRAP, THAT'S HILARIOUS!

[Cody Dawg]

I'm not going to post in here except to say that I find that supposed Christians and god-fearing people wishing hate and death upon each other as not cool.

Arafat is dead and people are allowed to change.

I happen to believe that Arafat seems to have wanted a peace process in his latter years (since that is all I have ever been exposed to) but that there were other machinations in process that may have interfered.

I say that as an American with both Christian and Jews in the family (who often argue, by the way, albeit with love).

It just seems to me that people should stop pointing fingers at processes that occurred long ago.

My grandfather (a Jew) taught me:

"Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is a mystery. Live for today."

That means do your best TODAY. That includes stop hating each other here and elsewhere.

[Vpro7]

Originally posted by UnixMac:
And as it should, that was a horrible stage in human history, but so does that mean that your people should inflict a watered down version of it on the native population of that region just because in your version of the bible, this land is know as a "jewish homland"? Sure some Christian Right groupes also teach this, but the largest Christian groups (The Roman Catholic, Easter Churches, and Lutheran, Anglecan) all teach that the New Covenenant supersedes the Old. Therefore, no more Jewish Homeland.... they are now to be scattered around the Earth (not a bad idea, since Jewish is a religion, and not a race).

For God's sake, 90% of Israeli's living there are from Europe or Russia!! They can't even speak the native languages (arameic, arabic, and hebrew) half the time!

Good points. In fact, the Palestinians who have been in that land since time immemorial, we can safely say that they are the descendants of the Canaanites, the Phoenicians, the Edomites, and even the Hebrews, Israelites, and Jews, etc. Hell, on my mother's side, who is Palestinian, they have folk stories going back to a time when they were Jews who reverted (converted) to Islam in that land. Of course there's been an in-flux of other Arabs into that region, in fact lots of Muslims from around the Muslim world. But it just goes to show you that we can't use ancient texts to justify one type of people, and negate another.

Palestinians, whatever they have been known as before, and whatever religion they might have had, have always been there, always will.

[UnixMac]

Racially, Arabs and native Israeli's are the same people... just different religions. Basically, some of their ancestors converted from Judaism to Christianity some converted to Islam, and some just remained Jewish... does that entitle some to the land over the other? No.

Furthermore, this running down of Arabs (just because of a few radical muslims) as a race is ridiculous to me. Were it not for the Arabs, we'd still be counting with sticks, and the study of the sciences and mathematics would be generations behind. The advancement in celestial navigation, math, and culture they have contributed to civilization cannot be measured.

Isreal is Holy Land to all of the Monotheistic faith, and quite frankly, as a Christian, I'm offended at the term "Jewish Homeland"

[Vpro7]

Originally posted by UnixMac:
Racially, Arabs and native Israeli's are the same people... just different religions. Basically, some of their ancestors converted from Judaism to Christianity some converted to Islam, and some just remained Jewish... does that entitle some to the land over the other? No.

Furthermore, this running down of Arabs (just because of a few radical muslims) as a race is ridiculous to me. Were it not for the Arabs, we'd still be counting with sticks, and the study of the sciences and mathematics would be generations behind. The advancement in celestial navigation, math, and culture they have contributed to civilization cannot be measured.

Isreal is Holy Land to all of the Monotheistic faith, and quite frankly, as a Christian, I'm offended at the term "Jewish Homeland"

I agree and you make some very good points. The Palestinians aren't even all Muslim, there's many Christian Palestinians too. A name is just a name, but all of these peoples and religions have lived there, grew there, and have as much right to the land as the next person. We can call them whatever anyone wants to, Palestinian, Arab, Jew, Christian Muslim, etc, they've all been there for thousands of years.

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Cody Dawg:
I'm not going to post in here except to say that I find that supposed Christians and god-fearing people wishing hate and death upon each other as not cool.

Arafat is dead and people are allowed to change.

I happen to believe that Arafat seems to have wanted a peace process in his latter years (since that is all I have ever been exposed to) but that there were other machinations in process that may have interfered.

I say that as an American with both Christian and Jews in the family (who often argue, by the way, albeit with love).

It just seems to me that people should stop pointing fingers at processes that occurred long ago.

Well said,

[vmarks]

Originally posted by UnixMac:

For God's sake, 90% of Israeli's living there are from Europe or Russia!! They can't even speak the native languages (arameic, arabic, and hebrew) half the time!

Your ignorance is appalling. It's nearly as bad as when Spliffdaddy claimed that 97% of American high school graduates were illiterate.

You completely ignore the Jewish refugees from other Arab countries who speak both Arabic and Hebrew, and you completely ignore the fact that all of the immigrants attend classes in Hebrew which bring them up to speed relatively quickly. This type of class is called 'ulpan'. Immigrant children are schooled in Hebrew, Arabic, and English just as every other Israeli student is.

[BoomStick]

I watched the mob this morning get run over by the Palestinean guards when they were trying to unload his casket.

There were hundreds injured.

I was truly apalled and saddened.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by BoomStick:
I watched the mob this morning get run over by the Palestinean guards when they were trying to unload his casket.

There were hundreds injured.

I was truly apalled and saddened.

Yeah, they trampled their own people like animals. Very disturbing.

[Speckledstone]

Originally posted by Splinter:
nice pictures... I personally prefer:

http://www.n00bstories.com/image.fet...?id=1026996392



gah someone please host that image on a site that can work with the [img] tags.

No problem, here ya go...




Rational people of the world have a simple message to many Palestinians: If you are striving for peace then maybe you should stop targeting innocent civilians. The sooner they understand this simple message, the sooner a true peace process can begin.

[itai195]

Originally posted by UnixMac:
And as it should, that was a horrible stage in human history, but so does that mean that your people should inflict a watered down version of it on the native population of that region just because in your version of the bible, this land is know as a "jewish homland"?

Putting words in my mouth, you're kind of begging the question here.

Sure some Christian Right groupes also teach this, but the largest Christian groups (The Roman Catholic, Easter Churches, and Lutheran, Anglecan) all teach that the New Covenenant supersedes the Old. Therefore, no more Jewish Homeland.... they are now to be scattered around the Earth (not a bad idea, since Jewish is a religion, and not a race).

First of all, why should Jews care what Christian faiths teach? You realize that Lutherans and Catholics used to be some of the most virulent anti-Semites in the world?

Second of all, 'Judaism' isn't a race, but it most certainly is more than just a religion. Jews have hoped for a restoration to their homeland for centuries, though they weren't necessarily Zionists in the strict sense of the term because they thought the messiah would lead them back. You seem to want to deny Jews a connection to their homeland based on your religious belief. That's pretty similar to what some extremist Jews say about Palestinian claims to the land...

For God's sake, 90% of Israeli's living there are from Europe or Russia!! They can't even speak the native languages (arameic, arabic, and hebrew) half the time!

The new immigrants are learning Hebrew, what do you expect? Should I deny an American who has French ancestry any connection to France because he/she doesn't speak French anymore? I don't see much sense in pursuing this line of argument, because as OAW says, neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians are going to just leave. If both sides had gotten along better pre-48, we probably wouldn't have ever gotten into this mess... but here we are. We must deal with the status quo.

[SubGeniux]

Originally posted by itai195:

The new immigrants are learning Hebrew, what do you expect? Should I deny an American who has French ancestry any connection to France because he/she doesn't speak French anymore? I don't see much sense in pursuing this line of argument, because as OAW says, neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians are going to just leave.

That's the problem, thousands upon thousands of Jews aren't from that piece of land called Israel. Many are converts, many in Russia were just slave labour cast as Jews because of their low status.

So the question is this, does being Jewish entitke you to living in Israel? I don't think so, not unles you can prety much prove yuo cane from there. It';s a bit like a Christian in Germany wanting to Live in JIsrael because his religion is from there.

[itai195]

Originally posted by SubGeniux:
That's the problem, thousands upon thousands of Jews aren't from that piece of land called Israel. Many are converts, many in Russia were just slave labour cast as Jews because of their low status.

That is a problem. How does one prove that all the Arabs who claim Palestinian ancestry also have a connection to the land?

[SubGeniux]

Originally posted by itai195:
That is a problem. How does one prove that all the Arabs who claim Palestinian ancestry also have a connection to the land?

They don't have to if they are living there as of now, and if they can prove they were displaced during the creation of Israel. They don't need to go back in the midst of time to prove of they came from there. We aren't talking about Palestinians who have been out in the big old world for thousands of years, and suddenly claiming to come from a particular land.

If someone came up to me and claimed to be from Palestine, but said his ancestors lived there 500 years ago, I'd probably think they had no claim to go live there.

Big diference.

[itai195]

Originally posted by SubGeniux:
If someone came up to me and claimed to be from Palestine, but said his ancestors lived there 500 years ago, I'd probably think they had no claim to go live there.

Well I guess that's where we'd disagree. Mere passage of time doesn't nullify one's claim to land. As vpro said, many of the Palestinians are truly the descendants of folks who have a legitimate claim to the land. Many of them are not. It's the same situation as your argument regarding Jews, and it won't lead to any resolution worth pursuing IMO.

[SubGeniux]

Originally posted by itai195:
Well I guess that's where we'd disagree. Mere passage of time doesn't nullify one's claim to land.

No, but it severely impacts the basis for the claim, especially when comparing it to a Palestinian who was kicked out in the last century. Somehow, a Jew from Poland wanting to get into Israel, doesn't compare to a Palestinian who was recently kicked out.

[itai195]

Originally posted by SubGeniux:
No, but it severely impacts the basis for the claim, especially when comparing it to a Palestinian who was kicked out in the last century. Somehow, a Jew from Poland wanting to get into Israel, doesn't compare to a Palestinian who was recently kicked out.

All I'm saying is that it's not so simple. A case could be made for both sides.

[Splinter]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Seek help.

heh common I would find humor in that if it was ANY terrorist or evil mans casket it wasnt just because he was Arab or because there was a Palestinian flag on there you have to belive I'd like the image if it was castro that french guy... or that syrian leader guy to hes no good.

Originally posted by Speckledstone:
No problem, here ya go...




Rational people of the world have a simple message to many Palestinians: If you are striving for peace then maybe you should stop targeting innocent civilians. The sooner they understand this simple message, the sooner a true peace process can begin.

cool many thanks ma good man.

[OAW]

Originally posted by vmarks:
It was Jewish refugees who came to Israel seeking an escape from the bad treatment and oppression in the rest of the Arab world. Sephards had a role in founding Israel, which you backhandedly acknowledge with the qualifier mostly.

Are there minor issues within society over funding and how it gets directed to different areas of society, say in terms of education? Yes, and any government has such issues. Making some claim of bad treatment is almost too non-specific to even be addressed.

I think you are minimizing the role of race in Israeli society. But that isn't surprising since that is done in most Western nations. The point that Vpro7 is making ... and a point that I have made on several occasions as well ... is that the Ashkenazi control the country.. No one is denying the presence of Sephardic Jews. Hell there are even Falasha Hebrews from Ethiopia in Israel now. The Falashas can trace their lineage all the way back to King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba ... long before a European Jew ever existed ... but that didn't keep the Ashkenazi that controlled Israel from denying the "Jewishness" of the Falasha for decades n'est pas? A casual observation of Israeli society will reveal that European Jews and European Christians are very similar in one aspect ... their treatment of the darker skinned people in the countries they control. Whether those darker skinned people share their religion or not.

OAW

[lil'babykitten]

Palestinians will mourn the loss of their national hero and leader for 40 days.

[Cody Dawg]

What I don't understand is why Jews go to a place to live where there is so much unrest.

Why not come to the United States?

They can all live here in Florida in Boca Raton, or in New York City, or in Los Angeles.

Why not live here instead?

This is the greatest place in the world to live and there is lots of room for everyone.

[aberdeenwriter]

I wonder if MRS. Arafat will contribute any of her $22,000,000 toward some Flintstone vitamins for the Palestinian people her husband claimed to love?

http://www.usaid.gov/wbg/headline_199.htm

October 6, 2004
22% of Palestinian Children Suffer Vitamin A Deficiency, USAID Survey finds

RAMALLAH, West Bank - Some 22% of Palestinian children aged 12-59 months suffer from Vitamin A deficiency, according to a survey funded by the United States Agency for International Development (USAID).

The survey findings, released in Ramallah on October 6, 2004, showed that another 53.9% of the children in the West Bank and Gaza had Vitamin A levels indicating borderline deficiency.

The World Health Organization (WHO) deems a Vitamin A deficiency prevalence rate of over 20% to be "severe," constituting a public health problem that requires immediate action.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by Cody Dawg:
What I don't understand is why Jews go to a place to live where there is so much unrest.

Why not come to the United States?

They can all live here in Florida in Boca Raton, or in New York City, or in Los Angeles.

Why not live here instead?

This is the greatest place in the world to live and there is lots of room for everyone.

One word: Jerusalem

There are other factors, but that one is the biggest, IMO.

[itai195]

Originally posted by Cody Dawg:
What I don't understand is why Jews go to a place to live where there is so much unrest.

I think the main reason is that the Holocaust led many Jews to the conclusion that they need to control their own destiny, that they can't rely on good will anymore. While some did come to the US, that wouldn't have fulfilled the need for self-determination that many felt. There probably would have been unrest no matter where they went, though...

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
One word: Jerusalem

There are other factors, but that one is the biggest, IMO.

You know, I've understood that was important to all of them, but I never really thought about it before your post.

I guess it's neat to be able to walk the same streets and little alleyways as the holy men of old. But, in a way it doesn't seem important at all.

Like wanting to privately own the "Mona Lisa" rather than being able to share it with others in a museum. Or being unable to gain the same satisfaction out of simply having a Mona Lisa print.

Does the ownership or proximity to Jerusalem confer any special power or promise?

I must admit going to Washington DC gave me a rush at the realization so many things I'd seen on TV or read about in school had taken place in the city.

But access to DC isn't denied to most anyone unless they are a danger to the US or unless they are criminals or threats or something.

Why can't the followers have a truce there in Jerusalem so everyone can enjoy the city and respect the others' holy symbols and places?

[itai195]

Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
Why can't the followers have a truce there in Jerusalem so everyone can enjoy the city and respect the others' holy symbols and places?

The religious nuts don't mix together very well. They ruin it for everyone.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by Cody Dawg:
Wow.

This thread is getting rather creepy.

<looks around>

God forbid we have actual Ay-rabs postin' here, snookums!

Ain't they all terrorists?

[Splinter]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Palestinians will mourn the loss of their national hero and leader for 40 days.

I wonder how much mourning they will do and how much blowing up... There is such a huge chance of everything just going to hell that the security level here was raised to an active state of war

let just hope they dont get all fumed up about this whole thing and decide to take out their loss on us. It's not liek we killed him... well actually... I should say It's not like anyone knows if we did or not.

[MacGorilla]

Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
You are kidding, right?

If you have read everything in this thread and still (seriously) feel that way, let me try to put it in a different way.

If you were to take the total number of men, women and children civilians Arafat is responsible for killing, it would be the same as if he personally were responsible for every homicide in NYC for *17 years.

*2002 NYC murders = 590

I can be respectful of the dead and not gloat. But the world is better off without him in it. He did many, many terrible things, to his own people, the Israelis and others.

I thought about it and I am inclined to agree. The world is better off without him. Now we just need Sharon to go by the way side and we may yet see peace!

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by MacGorilla:
I thought about it and I am inclined to agree. The world is better off without him. Now we just need Sharon to go by the way side and we may yet see peace!

With a people so oppressed and victimized as the Palestinians are said to be, wouldn't you think they'd be reaching and grasping for peace instead of laying down conditions before which they might agree to see peace?

Arafat never had that sense of urgency because his BILLIONS shielded him from the pain of his actions/inactions.

We can only hope the new Palestinian leadership are regularly audited.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by itai195:
The religious nuts don't mix together very well. They ruin it for everyone.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/3055


The question is whether it is possible and necessary to make peace schnell, schnell in Jerusalem, with Jews and Arabs as full partners in the ownership and administration of the city, or whether this is a solution only for children and village idiots. Any seasoned bazaar merchant�indeed, any child�will tell you that "the problem of Jerusalem" must be "left for last." Negotiations between Jews and Arabs cannot begin with a discussion about Jerusalem because this would "blow everything up." The problems are so complex that anyone who suggests a solution shows he does not understand the problem.

But I intend to suggest a solution: "Jerusalem must be one city and the capital of two states, Israel and Palestine."

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...hreadid=235218

Which will be the subject of a new thread:

"Jerusalem: One City, Two Capitols"