[idjeff]

I thought this was insane...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,157204,00.html

Residents are upset about possibly having to pay $97 for a passport-one that lasts for 10 years mind you(at least mine does)-to pass between the US and Canada.

Critics say that this may limit travel and hurt business.....wahhh f'n wahhh .

This country needs to have borders that are true borders regardless of inconvenience.

[Eug Wanker]

Personally I think it's penalizing the wrong people. If there's good quality photo ID, like a hard to forge driver's licence, that should be good enough in these circumstances.

And you can betcha it will limit travel and hurt business.

Also, don't forget, the vast majority of true terrorists in the US come in with passports.

[Athens]

wanna protect the US, then North America as a whole has to work together with the first line of defence being the Air Ports and Sea Ports. Unless a 40 foot wall is built between Canada and the US, passports arnt going to do jack **** to keep these guys from passing back n forth between Canada and the US. Just look at the Mexico example, how many illegals cross the Mexico US border every day and thats really well protected? IT starts and ends at the Air and Sea Ports. Past that its kinda hopeless to get any real security.

[PacHead]

What kind of hillbillies don't have a passport ?

If somebody is going to travel to a foreign country (which Canada would most definitely qualify as), then yes, one should have a passport. If it hurts business, then so be it.

[SVass]

There are border areas where children have to cross twice to get to school. Will ambulances require passports for victims? Perhaps we should return to pre Revolutionary War days when people needed passports to travel between colonies. Why don't we adopt the Czarist technique of city registration wherein one required a local police permit to enter any city? The Republican isolationists are back. If you really want to protect our borders, boycott Walmart. As far as Canada is concerned, I would suggest a union of governments as it might add some shred of sanity to our Congress. sam

[budster101]

Score: Passports 1; No-Passports 0

[idjeff]

Originally Posted by SVass

There are border areas where children have to cross twice to get to school. Will ambulances require passports for victims?

There are border areas where children have to cross twice to get to school? I don't see why they would have to cross another nations border to get to school. However, if that's the case, I would say that they're route would need to change. And yes, an ambulance would require a passport for victims....It's another country.

Perhaps we should return to pre Revolutionary War days when people needed passports to travel between colonies. Why don't we adopt the Czarist technique of city registration wherein one required a local police permit to enter any city?

Perhaps we should.

If you really want to protect our borders, boycott Walmart.

I agree about boycotting Walmart (they're a monster). But I don't see how that would protect our borders.

[SVass]

Originally Posted by idjeff

There are border areas where children have to cross twice to get to school? I don't see why they would have to cross another nations border to get to school. However, if that's the case, I would say that their route would need to change. And yes, an ambulance would require a passport for victims....It's another country.

I agree about boycotting Walmart (they're a monster). But I don't see how that would protect our borders.

In reverse order: Walmart goods come from overseas in large containers that may hold bombs, people, and opium. Our border with Canada is discontinuous and in some cases is between islands and land. Why don't you move to a gated, walled community or hide under your bed and leave the rest of us alone? Let me suggest that I have better uses for my tax money than building walls and hiring guards to protect me from 19 kooks. I keep hearing about wasting my tax money on the poor or the elderly from conservatives. You want to waste it on a new Maginot Line.

Think of it this way. We spent 20 billion to get to the moon. We have so far spent 300 billion on Iraq and I don't know how much more on anti-terrorism.
sam

[vmarks]

Originally Posted by SVass

Think of it this way. We spent 20 billion to get to the moon. We have so far spent 300 billion on Iraq and I don't know how much more on anti-terrorism.
sam

20 Billion in 1969 dollars is not the same as 20 Billion in 2005 dollars. Certainly 300 Billion is more than 20 Billion in 2005 dollars, but you are intentionally exaggerating the gap between the two by not representing them in constant dollars.

20 Billion in 1969 is much closer to 104 Billion in 2005.

[budster101]

He often uses numbers to misrepresent. (SVASS)

[SVass]

Originally Posted by budster101

He often uses numbers to misrepresent. (SVASS)

I use the Bush/Budster101 social security math! When people want to build Maginot Lines or Missile Defense Systems or B-1 bombers, I want them to provide numbers before they ask to spend my money.
sam

[idjeff]

Originally Posted by SVass

In reverse order: Walmart goods come from overseas in large containers that may hold bombs, people, and opium. Our border with Canada is discontinuous and in some cases is between islands and land. Why don't you move to a gated, walled community or hide under your bed and leave the rest of us alone? Let me suggest that I have better uses for my tax money than building walls and hiring guards to protect me from 19 kooks. I keep hearing about wasting my tax money on the poor or the elderly from conservatives. You want to waste it on a new Maginot Line.

Think of it this way. We spent 20 billion to get to the moon. We have so far spent 300 billion on Iraq and I don't know how much more on anti-terrorism.
sam

I don't want a Maginot line. I don't want a "wall". I want the borders to be borders and I want immigration laws to be enforced. Why don't I move to a gated, walled community and/or hide under my bed and leave the rest of you alone? Well, because I have an opinion - just as you do, or are you asking me to be silent so you can spread your kind of wisdom? I never asked you to read or respond to this thread, so get over it.

In fact, who within the government is suggesting that we build a "wall"? I've only heard this kind of talk here on the forums.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by PacHead

What kind of hillbillies don't have a passport ?

Apparently, anywhere between 75% and 93% of Americans are hillbillies

[SVass]

Originally Posted by idjeff

I don't want a Maginot line. I don't want a "wall". I want the borders to be borders and I want immigration laws to be enforced. Why don't I move to a gated, walled community and/or hide under my bed and leave the rest of you alone? Well, because I have an opinion - just as you do, or are you asking me to be silent so you can spread your kind of wisdom? I never asked you to read or respond to this thread, so get over it.

In fact, who within the government is suggesting that we build a "wall"? I've only heard this kind of talk here on the forums.

http://www.usborderpatrol.com/borderframe1301.htm
Excuse me. You call it a fence. We prefer to have our northern border left alone. Some of us would prefer to have no immigration laws; but, we try to live with what we have. People can get along nicely except for the bigots who try to spread their prejudices. Borders were invented so taxes could be imposed and slaves could be kept within them. They do not serve any useful purpose in a free society. sam

[AKcrab]

Originally Posted by idjeff

I thought this was insane...

Critics say that this may limit travel and hurt business.....wahhh f'n wahhh .

This country needs to have borders that are true borders regardless of inconvenience.

You don't live near the border, do you?

Originally Posted by idjeff

There are border areas where children have to cross twice to get to school? I don't see why they would have to cross another nations border to get to school. However, if that's the case, I would say that they're route would need to change. And yes, an ambulance would require a passport for victims....It's another country.

Canadians came to my home town to school from across the border about 45 miles away. There was no choice, unless Canada wanted to build a whole school for 5-10 kids whose parents work at the border station. I'm sure you see that as a perfectly good solution rather than have those damn foreigners filling up a good American school 45 miles from Canada.

We should do away with the Canadian border completely.

[JERRYJERRYJERRY]

Originally Posted by PacHead

What kind of hillbillies don't have a passport ?

If somebody is going to travel to a foreign country (which Canada would most definitely qualify as), then yes, one should have a passport. If it hurts business, then so be it.

i don't have one and resent having to get one.

yeeeeehahhh

[idjeff]

Originally Posted by SVass

http://www.usborderpatrol.com/borderframe1301.htm
Excuse me. You call it a fence. We prefer to have our northern border left alone. Some of us would prefer to have no immigration laws; but, we try to live with what we have. People can get along nicely except for the bigots who try to spread their prejudices. Borders were invented so taxes could be imposed and slaves could be kept within them. They do not serve any useful purpose in a free society. sam

Oh my...just go away...seriously....if you're for open borders, fine. I'm not. Borders are there for a reason, and by the way, i'm not a slave...maybe you are...I'm not. Did you happen to read the captions for the link you posted? I'm no bigot, and don't assume that I am. You've gone over the left field fence with this post...later

[idjeff]

Originally Posted by AKcrab

You don't live near the border, do you?

Canadians came to my home town to school from across the border about 45 miles away. There was no choice, unless Canada wanted to build a whole school for 5-10 kids whose parents work at the border station. I'm sure you see that as a perfectly good solution rather than have those damn foreigners filling up a good American school 45 miles from Canada.

We should do away with the Canadian border completely.

Actually I do live near the border...the southern border. So Canada is faced with the choice of building a school for the children who live near the border? For 5-10 kids? F'n A yeah! It's a different friggin' country! THEY ARE CANADIAN CITIZENS! Let the Canadian government deal with it. sheesh! It's not a US problem!

[idjeff]

Originally Posted by JERRYJERRYJERRY

i don't have one and resent having to get one.

yeeeeehahhh

You dont' have to get one...who said that you had too?

[budster101]

Originally Posted by SVass

I use the Bush/Budster101 social security math! When people want to build Maginot Lines or Missile Defense Systems or B-1 bombers, I want them to provide numbers before they ask to spend my money.
sam

All you have are misinterpreting and misrepresenting numbers to try and prove you point, and now you have added ad hominem.

[SVass]

Originally Posted by idjeff

Actually I do live near the border...the southern border. So Canada is faced with the choice of building a school for the children who live near the border? For 5-10 kids? F'n A yeah! It's a different friggin' country! THEY ARE CANADIAN CITIZENS! Let the Canadian government deal with it. sheesh! It's not a US problem!

Local school districts (at least around me) sometimes trade neighborhoods with each other or money because of transportation issues or school location. No one gets excited. I can't see that Canada is any different as I've been there a few times and haven't been mugged or raped. They even seem to speak a similar language. Actually, I even watch some olympic events from their stations because they aren't time shifted and the CBC doesn't spend an hour telling me about the athlete's mother's sister's cousin's hairdo or whatever some US networks waste time on. They show the sporting event.

Should we reinstall the guns at Fort Warden to protect Puget Sound from the Canadian pirates?
sam

[Athens]

Originally Posted by idjeff

There are border areas where children have to cross twice to get to school? I don't see why they would have to cross another nations border to get to school. However, if that's the case, I would say that they're route would need to change. And yes, an ambulance would require a passport for victims....It's another country.



Perhaps we should.



I agree about boycotting Walmart (they're a monster). But I don't see how that would protect our borders.

Point Roberts off the Tip of BC is locked by water on all 3 sides and the Canadian border to the north. Students that live in Point Roberts go to School via Canada. Workers from Point Roberts also travel through Canada to get to work in Mainland Washington. There is another town in Alaska that also has to pass through Canada to get to the Mainland USA. Also what about the Alaska HWY, many Americans kinda forget about that big state up north that you have to pass through Canada to get to. A lot ot Canadians when the dollar is high shop just south of the border, and when the dollar is low a lot of Americans shop north. There is a special relationship between the people that live with in a 60km of the border.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by idjeff

Actually I do live near the border...the southern border. So Canada is faced with the choice of building a school for the children who live near the border? For 5-10 kids? F'n A yeah! It's a different friggin' country! THEY ARE CANADIAN CITIZENS! Let the Canadian government deal with it. sheesh! It's not a US problem!

Dude you need to lean the difference between your south border and your north border. For one many more illegals come north across our border then south. Mexicans and technically speaking Americans allthought I never really concider Americans illegals. North Border protection isnt going to do much to help the US. And as I said before if you want to protect the US from over seas threats, all North American Air and Sea ports must work together under one system because once some one gets here they can if they want cross any time they want.

[Athens]

Im sure SVass will agree with me on this, British Columbia and Washington State have a very close relationship. For one BC and Washington have alot in comon. Travel is easier North to South over East to West because of the Rookies, We get some of there TV stations, I think they get a couple of ours. We share PBS Washington, Knowledge Network and KVOS 12. Our Radio stations overlap, I listen to a few Seattle stations. Seattle and Vancouver are Twin Cities for the most part, they have the same feel, style and we both share the same weather patterns. Washington and BC are both very green places with people that are politically similar. Hell I felt more at home in Washington and specially Seattle then I did in Alberta Edmonton/Calgary. I will never support anything stronger then it is now for the US/Can border.

[idjeff]

Originally Posted by Athens

Dude you need to lean the difference between your south border and your north border. For one many more illegals come north across our border then south. Mexicans and technically speaking Americans allthought I never really concider Americans illegals. North Border protection isnt going to do much to help the US. And as I said before if you want to protect the US from over seas threats, all North American Air and Sea ports must work together under one system because once some one gets here they can if they want cross any time they want.

Dude, I'm quite aware of the differences between the northern and southern borders. Yes, I'm well aware that many more illegals cross our southern border than the northern border. The point of the thread is that the borders need to be borders, and people are bitching that they might have to show a passport to travel between the three countries. I would have no problem whatsoever with showing my passport to travel to Canada or Mexico (an odd point...I don't have to show my passport to drive to Mexico, however I do I fly to Mexico ) So I don't understand the problem.

Also, as far as Canadian children having to pass through the US to go to school in Canada...I'm sure the two governments could work something out for such an odd situation. (I find it highly unlikely that a terrorist could hitch a ride on the school bus without being noticed.)

And I agree with the last part of your post.

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by idjeff

(I find it highly unlikely that a terrorist could hitch a ride on the school bus without being noticed.)

The cowardly terrorists do sometimes employ schoolchildren to carry out their deeds, so I wouldn't rule that one out.

[SVass]

Originally Posted by PacHead

The cowardly terrorists do sometimes employ schoolchildren to carry out their deeds, so I wouldn't rule that one out.

I suggest that PacHead be deported. Actually, the governments have worked out the schoolchildren problem and they let the kids alone. Some idiots insist on a universal law with no exceptions. Guess who is the idiot! sam

[kennethmac2000]

Don't the US and Canada have something similar to Schengen over here in Europe whereby at the external ports of the border control area there is a database on which border control police can check if anyone passing the border is wanted by any of the member jurisdictions?

[Robert Stilkin]

Originally Posted by SVass

Borders were invented so taxes could be imposed and slaves could be kept within them. They do not serve any useful purpose in a free society. sam

Borders keep any Tom, Dick, Jose, Wu, Minh, or other potential unwanted person from jumping on a plane or boat, showing up on our doorstep, and expecting us to take care of them for the rest of their lives with our resources. That is what visas are for, and, if someone isn't willing to come here legally then said person ought to be deported instead of being allowed to let their children leech off the system here that we made ourselves.

People simply don't have the right to come and go as they please from one country to another. That's why we have this nice word called 'sovereignty.'

Would you like it if a bunch of cheap labor showed up at your place of employment willing to do your work for less than you are? I didn't think so.

[SVass]

Originally Posted by Robert Stilkin

Borders keep any Tom, Dick, Jose, Wu, Minh, or other potential unwanted person from jumping on a plane or boat, showing up on our doorstep, and expecting us to take care of them for the rest of their lives with our resources. That is what visas are for, and, if someone isn't willing to come here legally then said person ought to be deported instead of being allowed to let their children leech off the system here that we made ourselves.

People simply don't have the right to come and go as they please from one country to another. That's why we have this nice word called 'sovereignty.'

Let me get this straight. Our ancestors came here with guns and seized this land. Now we say that we own it and no one else can come in without our permission. We did not make the "land". sam

[idjeff]

Originally Posted by SVass

Let me get this straight. Our ancestors came here with guns and seized this land. Now we say that we own it and no one else can come in without our permission.

I would say that sounds correct. Everybody invaded the land that they now inhabit at some point in history. Some of these lands were inhabited and others were not. Sometimes the invaders were repelled and other times they were not and stayed. They in turn created soverign governments that created borders around their lands. The borders are there for many reasons, the main being as a line of security to protect the citizens and government. Unfortunately, the US border seems to be dissolving.

[Robert Stilkin]

Originally Posted by SVass

Let me get this straight. Our ancestors came here with guns and seized this land. Now we say that we own it and no one else can come in without our permission. We did not make the "land". sam

It's ours until someone else comes along, kicks our ass, and takes over.

So long as it's ours we will damned well say who can and can't come here and under what terms. It's not as if it's a cakewalk to immigrate to other nations if we wanted to.

Or is it that you are only opposed to America controlling her borders?

[SVass]

I agree! It is ours! Not YOURS! Quit imposing your asinine values on me. A majority of one does not obviate the constitution. It takes two-thirds of Congress and three-fourths of the state legislatures to remove a bill of right. So, quit inventing stupid rules that are in direct violation of our rights. Courts have ruled that indians do have treaty rights that over rule any law that Congress cares to pass. We have military agreements with Canada and they are our allies in air defense TREATIES. Congress has limited powers! I am opposed to anyone using his religious beliefs to define a border. The only purpose of any border in history was to impose taxes and religion. sam

[Robert Stilkin]

Originally Posted by SVass

I agree! It is ours! Not YOURS! Quit imposing your asinine values on me. A majority of one does not obviate the constitution. It takes two-thirds of Congress and three-fourths of the state legislatures to remove a bill of right. So, quit inventing stupid rules that are in direct violation of our rights. Courts have ruled that indians do have treaty rights that over rule any law that Congress cares to pass. We have military agreements with Canada and they are our allies in air defense TREATIES. Congress has limited powers! I am opposed to anyone using his religious beliefs to define a border. The only purpose of any border in history was to impose taxes and religion. sam

What kind of hogwash are you babbling about now?

Last time I checked an atlas this is the United States of America, and, until such time arises that this isn't the United States of America then those who want to come here will certainly abide by the laws and regulations set forth by this government.

If people are unhappy about this then let them go to one of more than 100 other countries in the world and see how easy it is to travel and live there permanently.

[SVass]

Originally Posted by Robert Stilkin

What kind of hogwash are you babbling about now?

Last time I checked an atlas this is the United States of America, and, until such time arises that this isn't the United States of America then those who want to come here will certainly abide by the laws and regulations set forth by this government.

If people are unhappy about this then let them go to one of more than 100 other countries in the world and see how easy it is to travel and live there permanently.

The thread is about CANADA, not Mexico or England. Quit babbling about 100 countries! We do have laws, treaties and a contstitution. Laws and regulations take a back seat to treaties and the constitution! Actually, regulations aren't worth a hill of beans. sam

[Athens]

This is just a cash grab, almost all the Americans I know that come up here a few times a month, none of them have passports. Im sure the tens of thousands that come up here dont. Imagine how much money there is to be made for passports to all those people.

[Athens]

Million Dollar Question, how will America be safer forcing all Americans and all Canadians to provide a passport at the Canadian US border?

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by Athens

Million Dollar Question, how will America be safer forcing all Americans and all Canadians to provide a passport at the Canadian US border?

Canada has many questionable immigrants, and potential terrorists. This is well documented, and we do not want these people to freely pass between our borders. There are also questionable people in the USA of course, and regardless if somebody is entering Canada from the USA, or if they are entering the USA from Canada, they should have proper documents, or else.

[SVass]

Originally Posted by PacHead

Canada has many questionable immigrants, and potential terrorists. This is well documented, and we do not want these people to freely pass between our borders....

Please don't use the word "we". Canadian citizens easily get papers and can freely pass between our borders. Oh, by the way, there are Canadians at NORAD helping defend our common borders. Canadians do have to worry that they may be kidnapped and sent to Syria for torture if they come through an "international" zone in our airports. sam

[icibaqu]

Originally Posted by PacHead

What kind of hillbillies don't have a passport ?
.

that guy in the oval office didn't have one until after he became president. y'know this guy

[Athens]

Originally Posted by PacHead

Canada has many questionable immigrants, and potential terrorists. This is well documented, and we do not want these people to freely pass between our borders. There are also questionable people in the USA of course, and regardless if somebody is entering Canada from the USA, or if they are entering the USA from Canada, they should have proper documents, or else.

And they cant, immigrants have to enter the US under there own citizenship using a valid passport from there country. My co-worker she is a born German, she has lived here for 17 of her 21 year life but because she would have to renounce her German citizenship in order to accept a Canadian citizenship she has never gotten one. So when she crosses the US border she has to show her German passport and sign documents that she is not a Nazi and some other crap like that. Same goes for my best friend, he’s Turkish, he has landed immigrant status but that doesn’t allow him to cross with out a Turkish Passport either. And if a potential terrorist wanted to cross into the US, they wouldn’t bother going through a crossing, they would just walk across somewhere in between in the wilderness. Man some of you Southern Yankees have no clue of the north. In many places the only thing that separates the 2 countries is a trail, with roads on either side and houses. You can toss a football and have it bounce into the other country by mistake.

http://www.umt.edu/evst/gifs/seconda.../images/15.jpg

here this is what the north border looks like. Markers every few miles and a trail on no mans land which is about 4 feet wide that stretches the entire length of the country.

[idjeff]

Originally Posted by Athens

And they cant, immigrants have to enter the US under there own citizenship using a valid passport from there country.

That's kind of the point of this whole thread isn't it?

[Athens]

Originally Posted by idjeff

That's kind of the point of this whole thread isn't it?

no its not, because its always been that way. Just because you are at the Canadian border crossing dosent mean you get instant access. If you are not Canadian or American you have to have a passport. Otherwise government issued ID was good enough such as a drivers licence for Canadians and Americans. All others such as dutch nationals, german nationals all had to have passports. The changes they are talking about is making Americans and Canadians have passports too.