[GnOm]

Originally Posted by SomeToast 

Though to be honest, that's the least of the menu bar's problems.  

The most funny one I saw is this one on furbo.org. Not that I can imagine anyone would use such a background pic, but it kinda illustrates the problem quite well.


cheers.

[P]

Originally Posted by Mediaman_12 

Disapointed that the 'Stacks' in the Dock aren't drag/drop aware (if you click in the Finder they close). They act the same as 'right clicking' a folder in Tiger's Dock, people hoping for something similar to OS9's Popup windows will be disappointed. It's quite cool the way that they display differently if you have loads of items in the folder/stack though.

Are stacks springloaded?

[P]

Originally Posted by sc_markt 

If you double-click on an icon of an opened app in the dock, does it hide all other apps while bringing that app to the front?

Have you ever seen a real computer noob using either Win or Mac OS? They doubleclick just about everything - especially buttons and EVERYTHING that looks like an icon. Right now, doubleclicking the Dock still works the expected way, so please let it keep doing that. Your way would bring a minimal benefit to the few that know of the feature and a lot of confusion to the multitudes that have no idea.

[mdc]

If you have applications on different Spaces and invoke Expose's All Windows does Expose only show windows on that space or all spaces?

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by mdc 

If you have applications on different Spaces and invoke Expose's All Windows does Expose only show windows on that space or all spaces?

On each space of course otherwise it would be messy. A window always belongs to the space it is in.

[kilechki]

Can you right click in a Finder window header when in detailed view and select which columns to show, like in iTunes?
I'm not sure I'm clear : In iTunes, when you right-click on the bar with the "Song's name - Artist - Album - etc", a menu is displayed. This is very useful - it also works in Mail.app.

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by kilechki 

Can you right click in a Finder window header when in detailed view and select which columns to show, like in iTunes?
I'm not sure I'm clear : In iTunes, when you right-click on the bar with the "Song's name - Artist - Album - etc", a menu is displayed. This is very useful - it also works in Mail.app.

Yes in View Options.

[kilechki]

I know View Options, this is not what I asked.
In Mail.app & iTunes, you can just right click in the window and choose what you want to see there. In Finder you have to reach the menu bar, click View options, check boxes and click OK. This is unfortunate for a file manager.

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by kilechki 

I know View Options, this is not what I asked.
In Mail.app & iTunes, you can just right click in the window and choose what you want to see there. In Finder you have to reach the menu bar, click View options, check boxes and click OK. This is unfortunate for a file manager.

When you right click there are the usual Finder contextual options. Leopard could have some view options in that menu but chooses to keep them under Show View Options because then users can choose other settings such as text size, icon size, etc

[iGrouch]

Hi Solofx7

Can you still customise the tool bar in Leopard. Can you put your own
folder icons up there as shortcuts. Ditto for the side bar. And can you
set the icons to your own for Documents/Pictures/Sites etc.

[Mediaman_12]

Originally Posted by iGrouch 

Hi Solofx7
Can you still customise the tool bar in Leopard. Can you put your own
folder icons up there as shortcuts. Ditto for the side bar. And can you
set the icons to your own for Documents/Pictures/Sites etc.

Yes all this is (currentely) the same as Tiger.

P, Stacks are really just a minor UI change to what we have now, with folders in the Dock. Just instead of right clicking for a 'vertical' hierarchal menu a regular (or left click) opens up with ether the 'banana' list or a large icon view dependant on how many items are in the folder.
Oh and they have replaced Old style 'folders in the Dock', draging a folder in to the Leopard Dock creates a Stack. So if you have a few in there, say a 'downloads' one, your Documents folder, a 'Current Project' folder, and the Applications folder. There is almost no way the tell the ones that contain mostly 'file' icons apart, you could use a custom folder icon in Tiger for one of the folders. Once a Stack has items in it,it's original folder icon is no longer used.

[P]

Originally Posted by Mediaman_12 

P, Stacks are really just a minor UI change to what we have now, with folders in the Dock. Just instead of right clicking for a 'vertical' hierarchal menu a regular (or left click) opens up with ether the 'banana' list or a large icon view dependant on how many items are in the folder.

Yes, I get that. It's Dock folders with flashier graphics that don't take 2 seconds to open. Personally, I would have been fine with Dock folders that opened quickly if they had skipped the graphics, but I'll take the funny graphics if that's the price to pay. What I'm wondering is if they're springloaded, ie if you can drag something onto a stack and have the menu open. Current Dock folders aren't - current Finder folders are, and it's a discrepancy.

[Mediaman_12]

Originally Posted by P 

Yes, I get that. It's Dock folders with flashier graphics that don't take 2 seconds to open. Personally, I would have been fine with Dock folders that opened quickly if they had skipped the graphics, but I'll take the funny graphics if that's the price to pay. What I'm wondering is if they're springloaded, ie if you can drag something onto a stack and have the menu open. Current Dock folders aren't - current Finder folders are, and it's a discrepancy.

Nope it's the same, nothing happens if you drag something on to the stack. There is zero extra functionality, hope Apple didn't spend too much time on there development, Maybe they will add the 'spring loaded' part for final release, this is 'pre-beta' after all.

[zro]

In Mail.app is it finally possible to turn off inline attachments? I despise this "feature."


Must you access a calDAV server to use the collaborative feature in iCal, or will it work with webDAV?

[TheoCryst]

Originally Posted by Mediaman_12 

Nope it's the same, nothing happens if you drag something on to the stack. There is zero extra functionality, hope Apple didn't spend too much time on there development, Maybe they will add the 'spring loaded' part for final release, this is 'pre-beta' after all.

Actually, "springing" is an option in System Preferences -> Dock. You can't drill into subfolders of the stack, but you can, for instance, put your Applications folder on the Dock and use this as a launcher for specific documents.

[P]

Originally Posted by TheoCryst 

Actually, "springing" is an option in System Preferences -> Dock. You can't drill into subfolders of the stack, but you can, for instance, put your Applications folder on the Dock and use this as a launcher for specific documents.

Halfway there, then. Not too bad, takes care of most of my problems with the current Dock folders then. Thanks, TheoCryst.

[CaptainHaddock]

Originally Posted by zro 

In Mail.app is it finally possible to turn off inline attachments? I despise this "feature."

I wouldn't mind that "feature" if it didn't make Mail completely freeze up every time I receive an email with an .eps image file. For some reason OS X thinks it can render these, but it can't.

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by zro 

In Mail.app is it finally possible to turn off inline attachments? I despise this "feature."

You can't turn off inline attachments but there is an option "Always Insert Attachments At End of Message". But if you have replied to an email by typing above the sender's quote the attachment will appear not at the end of your text but right at the bottom after the sender's text.

[xe0]

Am I the only one who likes the transparent menu bar?

I use minimalist desktop images - so I can see my icon image previews on the desktop. I would think that having a transparent menu bar enables a cleaner UI experience. I look forward to the new menu bar

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by xe0 

Am I the only one who likes the transparent menu bar?

I use minimalist desktop images - so I can see my icon image previews on the desktop. I would think that having a transparent menu bar enables a cleaner UI experience. I look forward to the new menu bar

In its current state the menu bar is unfinished so I can't totally judge until I see it in October. Right now it's just a semi-transparent white gradient and doesn't do anything adaptive. Very ugly things happen to the menu bar when you hit Exposé to show the Desktop.



I would like to see it have a semi-transparent shiny black theme with white text to make it consistent with QuickLook, HUD panels and CoverFlow.

[-Q-]

What are the interface options for Mail.app? I ask because I really like the 3-pane layout provided by Letterbox (which hasn't been updated in over a year unfortunately) and am hoping that Mail.app has that particular layout as an option....

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by -Q- 

What are the interface options for Mail.app?

The same as Tiger Mail.app. The only new changes are email templates that appear as a strip, RSS reader like Newsfire, To-do list, and Notes.

[-Q-]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

The same as Tiger Mail.app. The only new changes are email templates that appear as a strip, RSS reader like Newsfire, To-do list, and Notes.

Ah, disappointing. Thanks for the insight!

[TETENAL]

Can iCal and Address Book remind you of birthdays now?

[jtrwallace]

OK, I just installed Leopard yesterday as well. I must say, while I think stacks look really cool when open, they look horrible when not open. It is completely stupid and ridiculous to have the stack take the icon of the "first" thing in it. For instance, I had Address Book in the dock by default and then I had my applications folder in the dock as well. Well, the only logical way to have one's applications folder organized is by alphabet, which i did, and so the application "stack" took the form of the address book. ARGH. I don't want two Address Books in my dock. Does anyone else find this entirely stupid? I don't mind the transparent menu bar too much. Its cool, I just wish it was a tiny bit opaque.
Another thing, most apps are wayyy buggy. Photobooth was cool with the moving backgrounds but then it almost instantly freezes. Bluetooth didnt work for me either. Oh well, its beta.
System preferences make a lot more sense I think, except I would say that Parental Controls shouldnt be its own preference pane.

Well, I guess I'm one more person that can answer questions if anyone needs any answers.

[silver]

@jtrwallace when you say most apps are buggy, can you please list which ones.


silver

[aehaas]

Can you lock items onto the Dock? My wife keeps accidently dragging things off and then she cannot find the program to get it started again.

aehaas

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by aehaas 

Can you lock items onto the Dock?

You can do that in Tiger.

[aehaas]

How?

[TETENAL]

System Preferences->Accounts->Parental Controls->Finder & System->Configure->"User" can: Modify the Dock.

[aehaas]

Thanks a lot. There is a problem though, we share the computer, there is only one account and parental controls does not work in the admin or any account with admin privilages account. There is no need for more than the one account for us.

aehaas

[TETENAL]

Create an admin account just for administration and share the regular user account with your wife. That's the safer way to operate your computer anyway, not being logged in as admin all the time. And/or create a separate account for your wife.

[Peter]

Leopard is now seeded to ADC members.

[P]

Isn't there a preference in the Dock panel to lock the Dock as well? Not on the Mac now, I'll check when I get back home.

[vertigociel]

Originally Posted by P 

Isn't there a preference in the Dock panel to lock the Dock as well? Not on the Mac now, I'll check when I get back home.

Not in Tiger. There's only appearance and behavior options (placement, size, minimization options, etc.).

[monkeybrain]

I think I read somewhere that Leopard has an overhauled printing system. Can someone give some details of what happens now when you print? Does the printer icon still pop up in the Dock, or is there a more elegant solution? If anything is new, some screenshots would be nice (I've seen some with the preview capabilities built right into the print dialogue - a nice addition).

[- - e r i k - -]

Printing is very very pleasant in Leopard

[MindFad]

What's new about printing?

[JKT]

The printing pane now includes the Page Presets options (which were separate in everything prior to Leopard), and it shows you a live preview of your document now, prior to printing. Other than that, I can't recall what was different from the video I saw of it (now removed).

[Peter]

does it have shared printer queues when printing to a networked printer?

[jtrwallace]

Ah, ok. Which apps are buggy.
First, and most important: System Preferences
When you first open it its fine. But after you go to one preference pane all the text on all the buttons gets f'ed up and hard to read. The show all button has greyer background on the text only and in Network you cant even see the writing on the side where it says bluetooh and stuff because there is a weird white f'ed up block looking thing over it.
Second, Photobooth.
It opens, you try to select an effect, and it crashes. If you are lucky you can select one but it will most certainly crash or give you no feedback. One neat thing though, it records video now. I dont think the current one does that. But the video capture worked just fine.
Third, iChat.
Just the preferences part. If I tried to go into Video/Audio, it froze the program.
Fourth, Address Book.
I clicked edit on my vcard and it froze. Not all the time, just some times.
Somehow, my date/time kept freezing too. Like I had been using leopard for an hour and I looked at the time and I was like wow, I thought it was later... it had been stuck an hour behind. Don't know how that happened.

Oh, shutting it off is weird. You go to restart or shut down and the dock, finder, and right side of the menu bar go away but then the background stays and the rest of the menu bar stays. Then you get that little spinning start up circle in the center/bottom of the screen and it just spins. I never had enough patience more than 2 minutes to see if it would eventually shut down so i just killed power.

Oh, another thing that sucks, is I thought that quicklook would work just by clicking on the thing in coverflow view. it doesnt. you have to press the quicklook button on the toolbar in finder or do command+Y. if you double click the item in coverflow it obviously opens the program or respective program but i feel like a one click should do quicklook. Otherwise, quicklook is awesome.

Also, I'm on tiger now, but i feel like i remember there being a way to lock icons into the dock. but ill have to check that later.

On a last note, Safari is probably the most flawless part about leopard. Webclip is amazing, and i have historically hated dashboard but now i see myself using it more. I didn't really find any rendering issues or text problems. it was very fast, as is all of leopard minus the buggy apps. Finder is much much faster, no problems there. Variable grid spacing is probably my favorite returned feature.

[Peter]

its crazy isn't it? Anyone would think it was beta

[PaperNotes]

This needs fixing. Use Spotlight in the menu bar to search emails. Hit Show All when the results come up.

Spotlight results window is now a normal Finder window. Problem is that email results won't show up in the Finder window. Neither will Address Book contacts. That also means no QuickLook feature for emails and Address Book contacts.

The Tiger Spotlight results window is much better at showing categorized content and fuller results. The only thing it lacks is QuickLook.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by jtrwallace 

Oh, shutting it off is weird. You go to restart or shut down and the dock, finder, and right side of the menu bar go away but then the background stays and the rest of the menu bar stays. Then you get that little spinning start up circle in the center/bottom of the screen and it just spins. I never had enough patience more than 2 minutes to see if it would eventually shut down so i just killed power.

Yup. This happens when logging out too

Originally Posted by jtrwallace 

Oh, another thing that sucks, is I thought that quicklook would work just by clicking on the thing in coverflow view. it doesnt. you have to press the quicklook button on the toolbar in finder or do command+Y. if you double click the item in coverflow it obviously opens the program or respective program but i feel like a one click should do quicklook. Otherwise, quicklook is awesome.

*cough* Try the space bar

Originally Posted by jtrwallace 

On a last note, Safari is probably the most flawless part about leopard. Webclip is amazing, and i have historically hated dashboard but now i see myself using it more.

Weird. Webclips don't work at all for me.

[Targon]

I'm wondering if any changes to the mechanisms of saving PDF's in Leopard have been made? Particularly, I was hoping the File Menu->Save As system wide would offer saving as a PDF. Apparently, to nearly every average user I've conversed with, they have absolutely no idea you need to go File Menu->Print->PDF->Save as PDF to save a PDF file. To them this is not obvious especially now days when PDF's are useful for sending info to ppl online to be viewed on every system identically to the way the PDF was created, in addition to being read only (no tampering). PDF is a great distribution format now, personally I rarely print off a PDF.

So any details on this in Leopard?

[- - e r i k - -]

Aren't Save and Save As… dialogs are still provided by each individual application for the most time? (IE. Photoshop etc.)

[Targon]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Aren't Save and Save As… dialogs are still provided by each individual application for the most time? (IE. Photoshop etc.)

Certainly, but in the save dialog in every app provides a list of available file formats to save to. If PDF is a hard coded service in the OS, then PDF should be available to every application as a file type ;-)

[TETENAL]

Every application that can print can also PDF as a file format so save if it wants to, but I don't see how the system could automate this and sort of "force" an app to save as PDF from the save dialog. The system needs to record the app's drawing to record as PDF which it can do when the app is printing. When an app shows the save dialog however it virtually does nothing except requesting that dialog. Thereafter it saves in its native format which is impossible to convert to PDF for the system.

[Targon]

What a load of bollox. Man, as an example, in GraphicConverter, open an image in any format, Save As from file menu select PDF as the file type to save to. There is none of the drawing and recording for printing like you are babbling on about. The system just needs to provide a hook to the app, cos its a system service , any app can tap to it.

Why complicate the issue. Its a simple question with a simple logic behind it an the method for providing it would be probably even simpler than the idea itself. Common they can add useless rubbish like cover flow in to he finder hahaha...what a joke.

[P]

There is already a hook for saving to PDF. If you make your own program, you can add the ability in your Save As... box and call the printer driver and print it as a PDF - Apple's part has already been done. What you can't do in a reliable way is forcibly add that option to the Save As... dialog of every program in the OS, because that part of the dialog box is generated by the program. The Print... dialog box implements the feature by adding a button to the common part of the box. This means that it will show up for all applications that use the default box (which is most).

What Apple might do is add that PDF button/menu to the common part of the Save As... dialog box as well. That wouldn't show it everywhere, but it would show it in apps that use the default box, which is most of them. It might look a bit odd, but it would work. Go ahead and suggest it, if you want the feature.