Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

Feb 22, 2001, 02:32 PM

Can someone explain to me why large chunks of the male gender are utterly incapable of expressing affection for certain colors (light, sunny colors) or anything cute?

I'm well aware of the cluster of reactions/behaviors that make up the "macho" mindset - I'm just wondering whether anyone would like to take a crack at explaining in more detail the precise nature of the squeamishness which the new iMacs (for example) induce in the typical American male.

I find it quite amusing, but also deeply inexplicable... and somehow disappointing. It doesn't cast a very flattering light on the flexibility of the human mind, does it?

Personally I think the new iMacs are the most adorable computers I've ever seen. They're cute enough to be almost huggable, but clean and elegant enough to not clash with the underlying technological nature of the device.

If I was in the market for an iMac, I would want one intensely.

But then, I'm not a typical male... I happen to like light, sunny color palettes, and I love cute things. I also buy my furniture at Ikea - and Ikea's design sense is the closest thing I know to Apple's design sense. Light, sunny, cute. Apparently Scandinavian males are not quite so uptight about such things - but I have observed on several occasions that the vast majority of Ikea shoppers in this country are female.

Thoughts?

MikeM32 · Feb 22, 2001, 02:38 PM

Here's my 2 cents, I'm a designer by the way

Blue Dalmation is tolerable

But Flower Power ?

Mike

blue guinea pig · Feb 22, 2001, 02:48 PM

I'm with you, helios!
Go Apple Go!
I'm a design student and I like new iMacs. And I'm not gay, etc.
I also like very much the TiBook!
It's simply "Think Different"?

blue guinea pig

artman · Feb 22, 2001, 02:52 PM

I agree. Though the new designs are beautiful I would go for the Graphite. My personal favorite (I currently own a Bondi Blue).

What bothers me is that many of these comments border on a kindergarten kids on the playground mentality. Just saying "icky", "barf", "puke" doesn't cut it as a rational critique.

Honestly at first I was taken aback at first viewing...but they are growing on me. When I see one "in the flesh" I think that'll reinforce my opinion.

Face it...the overall demographic here at these (sheesh, ALL BBS's pertaining to PC/Technology) seems to be young 15-21 yr. old males who need to reinforce their "macho" image by ripping into these designs. It's their opinion and that's fine...weird...but fine.

If they had come out with a black iMac with a skull and crossbones pattern all over it...it would be a different story.

Also as for some others who say that this now shows that Apple is rocketing to the crypt...go here.

------------------
The Artman @_@
http://www.artshack.com

jholmes · Feb 22, 2001, 02:53 PM

It slices both ways - Why do women tend towards pastels and lighter, brighter colors? Methinks it's human nature.

By your definition, I AM a typical make. I'll take Home Depot over IKEA. Paint my walls hunter green and give me a blood red tartan plaid over paisley anytime. Forget the VW Bug, I want a pickup or a V8 Corvette. I'd rather have a big Remington bronze decorating that table than a bowl of flowers.

This doesn't make me homophobic or mean that I hate light sunny colors or can't appreciate cute. I just prefer bold, strong statements to the subtle whisper.

When the Ruby and Indigo (even the light friendly Sage) iMacs arrived I thought those were cool. But the new ones do absolutely nothing for me. I think the general idea is for these to catch those folks on the opposite end of the spectrum from guys like me.

Cipher13 · Feb 22, 2001, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by artman:
I agree. Though the new designs are beautiful I would go for the Graphite. My personal favorite (I currently own a Bondi Blue).

What bothers me is that many of these comments border on a kindergarten kids on the playground mentality. Just saying "icky", "barf", "puke" doesn't cut it as a rational critique.

Honestly at first I was taken aback at first viewing...but they are growing on me. When I see one "in the flesh" I think that'll reinforce my opinion.

Face it...the overall demographic here at these (sheesh, ALL BBS's pertaining to PC/Technology) seems to be young 15-21 yr. old males who need to reinforce their "macho" image by ripping into these designs. It's their opinion and that's fine...weird...but fine.

If they had come out with a black iMac with a skull and crossbones pattern all over it...it would be a different story.

Also as for some others who say that this now shows that Apple is rocketing to the crypt...go here.

Its not a macho self-image thing.
Not for me anyway.
I'd love a plain black one - NOT with a skull on the side. Perhaps a flame, that would be cool.
But I just want a PLAIN, unobtrusive one.
I wouldn't mind an obtrusive one as long as its tasteful.
And Flower Power, IMO, is not tasteful.
Now, I don't really despise the pattern THAT much... just whats behind it. I mean really, are we not trying to reach a broader audience?
And more people would like the Sage or Ruby than Flower Power.
Maybe if they had ONE patterned iMac and more solid ones.
There are no mid/light iMacs now without patterns.
There is a deep indigo, and a very plain graphite.
Where are the reds, greens, oranges?
Stupid.

Cipher13

machappy · Feb 22, 2001, 05:10 PM

Asian people as a whole (male and female) love cuteness and bright happy colors. (magna/anime pokemon/hellokitty etc.) maybe it wasn't a coincidence that they announced these in Japan.

just looking for the logic...

"And we started looking at the drive-through window as a ritual event in an anthropological sense."

Feb 22, 2001, 05:35 PM

originally posted by Cipher13:
I'd love a plain black one - NOT with a skull on the side. Perhaps a flame, that would be cool.

I'm with you on the plain black - I mentioned in another thread, in response to Misha, that a Pro Mouse model would be fabulous - but a flame? In light of your subsequent comments about *cough* tastefulness *cough* would like to reconsider that?

<shudder> Just had a nasty flashback - the Hot Wheels PC.

I mean really, are we not trying to reach a broader audience? And more people would like the Sage or Ruby than Flower Power.

But fewer people would love Sage or Ruby than Flower Power. The iMac line looks so desperately underpowered to Wintel folk that a merely "nice" color like Sage or Ruby is not going to have the boxes flying off the shelves. Flower Power and Blue Dalmation, though, are so dazzlingly attractive to certain people (not you, and not most males) that the specs become almost irrelevant. Those people are going to have to have one. Sage and Ruby didn't inspire them enough to leave Windows, but these two patterns might.

Even if they turn out to be not as popular as Apple hoped (as happened with the Cube) it'll still have been a great experiment - something Apple had to try eventually, just to test the waters of public demand. If your bread and butter is innovative design, you've gotta push the envelope occasionally.

originally posted by machappy:
Asian people as a whole (male and female) love cuteness and bright happy colors. (magna/anime pokemon/hellokitty etc.) maybe it wasn't a coincidence that they announced these in Japan.

Absolutely true, but I think their appeal will be wider than that.

Feb 22, 2001, 05:42 PM

Listen guys, no matter how much you attempt to disagree you will be rebuffed on this one.

Think of what happened when a translucent computer first graced our consumer paws 2 years ago. the world was in shock.

Sure "Flower Power" and "Blue (super-cool) Dalmation" are contoversial, but people will warm to it... eventually. They shouldn't be forced or rushed.

Apple has made some big whoopsys in the past, but this isn't one of them. Just chill. Relax. Go do some "Flower Power".

Play it cool

(And I have to agree that all males are insecure... definately)

yoyo52 · Feb 22, 2001, 08:17 PM

My son, who usually has good sense and good taste, saw the flower power this afternoon in my office, and immediately said that he loved it and wanted one.

My first reaction was to disown him. But then I began to think that maybe Steve has done the marketing research. I guess time'll tell.

eep! · Feb 22, 2001, 08:45 PM

when i checked apples site this morning to see what was new, i couldn't believe my eyes, it wasn't april, i hadn't taken any chemicals, not even a coffee, i closed my browser and went down stairs. A couple of hours later, i went and checked again... nope, still there...
i think the kids (NOW i feel old!) like the acid trip, sorry, flower power imac, because the missed the sixties (so did i, but i never wanted to see them anyway...) i don't know, it's kind of grown on me, but i still don't want one.
I really like the dalmation blue though, snow it isn't, but what the hell.
as for indigo, ruby, sage and graphite, it's shame they had to get rid of rubay and sage.
i have to say, at least apple are trying new things from a marketing standpoint, at least you/we don't have to put up with beige and you can always paint it <smile>

AlbertWu · Feb 22, 2001, 09:19 PM

Originally posted by machappy:
Asian people as a whole (male and female) love cuteness and bright happy colors. (magna/anime pokemon/hellokitty etc.) maybe it wasn't a coincidence that they announced these in Japan.

just looking for the logic...

"And we started looking at the drive-through window as a ritual event in an anthropological sense."

Uh, no. Asian people are very logical. (Some of the world's best math students come from taiwan.)
I myself am asian and hate the new iMacs. I like sage or indigo.

Many of my asian friends hated it, although I don't know very many japanese people. The one (japanese) I asked didn't like it, but was a mac hater.

Heh... it is imposible to get a good sample group. Statistics are ******** .

------------------
Albert Wu

What? New iMac? For me?

AUGH! NOT FLOWER POWER! AHHHHHHHH!

AlbertWu · Feb 22, 2001, 09:24 PM

Originally posted by eep!:
when i checked apples site this morning to see what was new, i couldn't believe my eyes, it wasn't april, i hadn't taken any chemicals, not even a coffee, i closed my browser and went down stairs. A couple of hours later, i went and checked again... nope, still there...
i think the kids (NOW i feel old!) like the acid trip, sorry, flower power imac, because the missed the sixties (so did i, but i never wanted to see them anyway...) i don't know, it's kind of grown on me, but i still don't want one.

Uh... Define "kid."

If it includes me (14-16 yrs old) I would like to say that I think the sixties were a disgrace to american culture, but if it includes my sister (8-9,) and her friends, who happen to like their little bell bottoms, ying yangs and nuclear disarmnament symbols, then I suppose so.

I really don't think they have any buying power, though. Then again, neither does my age group.

------------------
Albert Wu

What? New iMac? For me?

AUGH! NOT FLOWER POWER! AHHHHHHHH!

WDL · Feb 22, 2001, 09:25 PM

There are many people who base buying decisions on looks
above all else.

If Apple captures a whole new following with this, it will be
considered GENIUS! We have all seen how fads start inexplicably
over anything out of the ordinary.

I can see many Hollywood celebs for example (most of whom
favour Macs, from what I've read) picking up the "flavour of the
month" because it matches some part of their home.

Apple's sure not getting attention producing excellent machines and
software, so if a little gimmickry keeps it in the public eye - is that bad?

Even when the smart-ass pundits are knocking Apple - it is focusing
attention on the brand - better than not being heard of at all.

Look at all the bad press Microsoft (and Gates) get - has that in any
way interfered with their sales and success?

Lighten up, some of you - this just might be one of the smartest
ploys Apple has come up with yet.

WDL

machappy · Feb 22, 2001, 10:43 PM

excuse my sweeping generalization. I was really trying to say that asian pop style is very similar to the new schemes and it will probably appeal to them.

no question about your logic albert, until you mentioned it I thought you were a 35yr old apple employee (Cupertino).

When I was your age the only thing I could talk about was skipping skool, stealing my parents car and hawking girls. needless to say you have a serious head start on most...

[This message has been edited by machappy (edited 02-23-2001).]

jholmes · Feb 22, 2001, 11:55 PM

Helios - you hit it right on the head - it isn't about making stuff that the general public likes. It's about building stuff that a market segment will LOVE. So much they gotta have it.
That niche market passion has driven Apple for years. Just look around here at all the "take my Mac when you pry it from my cold dead fingers" folks hereabouts. Charlton Heston isn't as passionate about his 12 gauge as most Apple devotees are about our computers.

I hope the new kids on the block are the next big thing for a large market segment.

DocWest · Feb 23, 2001, 12:22 AM

These new computers are fun, different but still the same hardware as the other colors. So forget about how girly you think it looks, because it's a damn computer. It still does everything you want it to do.
just chill out and stop being so serious about life.

I think it would be cool to have one of those new designs.
I can see myself dj'ing at a huge party on one of those blue dalmation ones.

machappy · Feb 23, 2001, 12:55 AM

http://macweek.zdnet.com/2001/02/18/0222icolors.html

some thoughts from the mothership..

I know the new imacs are going to look totally different in person. I remember the same was true with the cube, isub, and even the original imac. Photos just never did them justice.

ps>opera rox get it now!

[This message has been edited by machappy (edited 02-23-2001).]

eep! · Feb 23, 2001, 08:05 AM

sorry albert, didn't really make myself clear (as always) what i meant to say was something along the lines of "apple (could) have created the flower power design to appeal to a younger, possibly even pre-teen (hell, i'll push the boat out on this: female) market, that is to say 'their' definition of 'pre-teen'."
i apologise for my own generalisations and assumptions, i did not mean to imply that ALL people i consider 'kids' i.e. those 16 and under would instantly like/love/adore/want the flower power imac.

with regard to 'american culture' the world does not end at the borders of the united states and america was not the only place to live the 'sixties' experience... just a thought.

[This message has been edited by eep! (edited 02-23-2001).]

MikeM32 · Feb 23, 2001, 11:38 AM

<shudder> Just had a nasty flashback - the Hot Wheels PC.

Hmmmmm.........

And "Flower Power" is original?

<shudder> Just had a nasty flashback - the Barbie PC

Mike

Feb 23, 2001, 05:00 PM

I think that men are taking offense to both the political and gender statements made by the "Flower Power" iMac.

It brings such sadness to see men having to preface their like of the "Flower Power" design with statements like "I am not gay, but I like it" or "I am 6'3" and 220 lbs. and I like it" et al. The tastes of men in America are so ruthlessly conditioned that a man has to qualify a simple like for flowers with a confirmation of his masculinity. This is so pathetic and it should be surreal, but it is too common to qualify. But then again, perhaps this taste is not so simple.

Like the design or not, the least you can do is think for yourselves. Consider being less insecure about your sexuality -- as it is
so funny to think that it has anything to do whether you like flowers or not.

As for the political, just come out and be honest about your issues here. If you feel that the "Flower Power" iMac references the 60s ideals of love and peace, and you find love and peace offensive to your political sensibility, be honest and just say so.

I remember an episode of Michael Moore's TV Nation where a large group went to the home of the director of Operation Rescue and planted flowers along the walkway to his front porch. The flowers were in bloom and quite beautiful. By even Martha Stewart's standards they were a warm additional to his yard. The camerafolk did some amazing work when the director stormed
out of his house to address Mr. Moore and his congregation of gardeners. They got amazing footage of the director, red in the face, screaming "you people are insane" as he passionately stomped on all of the flowers planted in his yard. The act of squashing these flowers was quite compelling, as radical "pro-life" activists have been very willing to kill doctors in the
interest of protecting unborn children. Why are these people so afraid of flowers?

Flowers represent a powerful reversal. In the sixties, flowers were placed at the muzzles of National Guardsmen's rifles by war protestors. The flower, a universally pure symbol of fertility and beauty, negated the brute phallic power of the rifle. Since Vietnam, Freud would perhaps say that the flower represents castration in the American collective unconscious. Powerful and irrational fears lie in the twisted psyche of the American male. I should know, I am one too.

waffle

Feb 23, 2001, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by Cipher13:
Its not a macho self-image thing.
Not for me anyway.
I'd love a plain black one - NOT with a skull on the side. Perhaps a flame, that would be cool.
But I just want a PLAIN, unobtrusive one.
I wouldn't mind an obtrusive one as long as its tasteful.
And Flower Power, IMO, is not tasteful.
Now, I don't really despise the pattern THAT much... just whats behind it. I mean really, are we not trying to reach a broader audience?
And more people would like the Sage or Ruby than Flower Power.
Maybe if they had ONE patterned iMac and more solid ones.
There are no mid/light iMacs now without patterns.
There is a deep indigo, and a very plain graphite.
Where are the reds, greens, oranges?
Stupid.

Cipher13

And what is it that the "Flower Power" iMac represents that upsets you so much? Flowers can represent many different ideas. Explain.

Cipher13 · Feb 23, 2001, 05:23 PM

It will sell horribly.
Honestly, how large is the target audience for that thing? Not real large. Not as many people would MIND having it as sage or ruby.
I would go out of my way to avoid it.
It is stupid marketting.
Sage and Ruby are tolerable to just about anyone really. Flower Power is either love it or hate it. Not a good idea.

Cipher13

Feb 23, 2001, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by Cipher13:
It is stupid marketting.
Sage and Ruby are tolerable to just about anyone really. Flower Power is either love it or hate it. Not a good idea.

On the contrary. If that argument were valid, then the best possible design from a marketing standpoint would be the mildest, blandest, most unobjectionable... oh wait - isn't that beige?

The point is NOT to come up with a design that the largest possible number of people will look at and say "Hmmm. Not bad. I guess I could live with that." No, that way lies beige. The strategy Apple has chosen to follow is to offer a nice mix of visual designs - more curvy, less curvy, bright colors, laid back colors. That way there's a much higher chance that any given person will look at the whole lineup and find one - ONE! - that inspires them to say not just "Not bad" but "Ohhhh... now THAT one I could really go for... those other ones are too loud/sedate/garish/boring, but this one here is just perfect."

This strategy is especially important NOW, at a time when iMac hardware cannot compete on specs alone. To expand beyond the base of Mac loyalists, Apple must build stuff that a Wintel user will look at and say not just "Not bad" but "Oh my god, that's the most beautiful/cute/radical computer I have ever seen. I must have one" - in SPITE of the lack of spec parity. How can they do that? Not by cranking out more and more unobjectionable Pottery Barn color schemes like Sage and Ruby, that's for damn sure. Those inspire like, not love.

So: a love/hate reaction is exactly what Apple wants its stuff to inspire, in order to pry some of the Wintel drones away from their beige boxes. And the ratio of love vs. hate does NOT need to be high, because even 5% of the Wintel market would double Apple's market share.

A 5% slice of the Wintel crowd is more people than a 95% slice of the Mac crowd.

The more I think about this, the more I'm convinced that this is what Apple had in mind. They did the market research on those patterns, and I bet you dollars to donuts they found at least a 5% "love" reaction.

(edited for tags)

[This message has been edited by helios (edited 02-23-2001).]

MikeM32 · Feb 23, 2001, 08:22 PM

The point is NOT to come up with a design that the largest possible number of people will look at and say "Hmmm. Not bad. I guess I could live with that." No, that way lies beige. The strategy Apple has chosen to follow is to offer a nice mix of visual designs - more curvy, less curvy, bright colors, laid back colors. That way there's a much higher chance that any given person will look at the whole lineup and find one - ONE! - that inspires them to say not just "Not bad" but "Ohhhh... now THAT one I could really go for... those other ones are too loud/sedate/garish/boring, but this one here is just perfect."

This strategy is especially important NOW, at a time when iMac hardware cannot compete on specs alone. To expand beyond the base of Mac loyalists, Apple must build stuff that a Wintel user will look at and say not just "Not bad" but "Oh my god, that's the most beautiful/cute/radical computer I have ever seen. I must have one" - in SPITE of the lack of spec parity. How can they do that? Not by cranking out more and more unobjectionable Pottery Barn color schemes like Sage and Ruby, that's for damn sure. Those inspire like, not love.

Yeah all that after bashing my ideas in another thread on Camoflage and Yellow and Black striped "under construction" iMacs.

helios quit being a hipocrite

And please don't claim you know the first thing about design.

Mike

Cipher13 · Feb 23, 2001, 08:29 PM

Ok, cool it guys

Originally posted by helios:
On the contrary. If that argument were valid, then the best possible design from a marketing standpoint would be the mildest, blandest, most unobjectionable... oh wait - isn't that beige?

The point is NOT to come up with a design that the largest possible number of people will look at and say "Hmmm. Not bad. I guess I could live with that." No, that way lies beige. The strategy Apple has chosen to follow is to offer a nice mix of visual designs - more curvy, less curvy, bright colors, laid back colors. That way there's a much higher chance that any given person will look at the whole lineup and find one - ONE! - that inspires them to say not just "Not bad" but "Ohhhh... now THAT one I could really go for... those other ones are too loud/sedate/garish/boring, but this one here is just perfect."

This strategy is especially important NOW, at a time when iMac hardware cannot compete on specs alone. To expand beyond the base of Mac loyalists, Apple must build stuff that a Wintel user will look at and say not just "Not bad" but "Oh my god, that's the most beautiful/cute/radical computer I have ever seen. I must have one" - in SPITE of the lack of spec parity. How can they do that? Not by cranking out more and more unobjectionable Pottery Barn color schemes like Sage and Ruby, that's for damn sure. Those inspire like, not love.

So: a love/hate reaction is exactly what Apple wants its stuff to inspire, in order to pry some of the Wintel drones away from their beige boxes. And the ratio of love vs. hate does NOT need to be high, because even 5% of the Wintel market would double Apple's market share.

A 5% slice of the Wintel crowd is more people than a 95% slice of the Mac crowd.

The more I think about this, the more I'm convinced that this is what Apple had in mind. They did the market research on those patterns, and I bet you dollars to donuts they found at least a 5% "love" reaction.

Helios, I see your point. And you're right - but thats not applicable here. I know thats what Apple wants - you know, release the pansyMac and get some new users. Then realease the jollyrogger iMac and get some MORE.
Its a nice strategy.
But, when you have the choice of blue dalmatian and flower power, they would have been better off with Sage/Ruby.
If they had released more than two decalled ones, for all manner of people, THEN your statements would be valid.

And by the way, yes, beige is cool. BUT - again, invalid argument against sage/indigo/ruby/graphite/snow. As you have a CHOICE.
You can have the unobtrusive Snow. Or a more outspoken one. The key is choice.

Cipher13

[This message has been edited by Cipher13 (edited 02-23-2001).]

Cipher13 · Feb 23, 2001, 08:38 PM

Originally posted by MikeM32:
Yeah all that after bashing my ideas in another thread on Camoflage and Yellow and Black striped "under construction" iMacs.

helios quit being a hipocrite And please don't claim you know the first thing about design.

Mike

That'd be cool - cammo Macs, construction Macs, etc. They need to cater to everyone, and having those, there are some people that like everything.
I'd like a cammo one. That'd go down well with the army too

LOL
Helios - if you know design, then you know theres someone for everything.

Enter problem number 1: producing so many Macs of so many types, that may not sell... well, is that why Apple only intro's 2 to start with?

Cipher13

MikeM32 · Feb 23, 2001, 09:01 PM

I'm still into the customizable case concept myself. Apple can offer like a "Clear" casing and then sell "skins" for like $10-$20 each that way everyone can have a different design every month or whatever

Mike

yadda_yadda_yadda · Feb 23, 2001, 09:30 PM

I am the opposite. I am a man, and I don't care what the hell people think about me...

but I would never buy a Flower Power iMac because I think it's damn stupid.

By the way, you KNOW it's bad when men HAVE to preface the thought of buying a Flower iMac with "I'm not gay".

cough.cough · Feb 24, 2001, 07:38 AM

By the way, you KNOW it's bad when men HAVE to preface the thought of buying a Flower iMac with "I'm not gay".

They were doing that in 98. *scoff*

------------------
you must whip it,
whip it good!

PMG4DP · Feb 24, 2001, 09:34 PM

Personally I love the new patterns, My mother and sister ordered the flower power ones. I'll try and post pics once they come.

------------------
"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler
Translation..."One people, one empire, one leader"

nigeljedi · Feb 24, 2001, 09:40 PM

Yeah, Cipher! Black with flames would be cool! I agree with the sentiment that not all males are afraid of light, sunny colors. I'm as straight of a man as you can get, but I still think the whimsical new macs are cool. I like a little design with my function (function being the operational piece of machinery I'm dealing with). Maybe that's another reason I hate Windows machines...they're pretty much repulsive to look at. Depressing even.

------------------
FireMac

Cipher13 · Feb 24, 2001, 10:02 PM

Hehe, damn right its depressive.
Windows always reminds me of a prison - drab, depressing, with you locked inside... whereas the MacOS is the beautiful green (floral!) field on the other side of the mountain, far away from the prison...
LOL

Cipher13

TheJoshu · Feb 24, 2001, 11:59 PM

Hey, I love my graphite, but the Blue Dalmation works for me as well. I've spent lots of time checking out gadgets in Home Depot, but my desk is from IKEA -- frankly, I think that IKEA is just a frustrating place. I can't deal with the Scandinavian names. And the way the stores are designed makes it difficult to get from Point C to Point A, without walking through the alphabet. I love plenty of their industrial design, though. Cute and sunny is a good thing. Except that the Apple logo in Flower Power is pink, and that color is just too loud in general for me. I like things a tad more muted. And Flower Power (in the corporate Apple photos, which I found made me dislike the original 5-flavored iMacs until I saw them in person) just looks like a dirty iMac. Some Mac e-publication said that on Thursday, and I agree with it. Of course, you can't judge a Mac by it's photos. With these things, you just have to drive down to your local computer store and check them out in person.

nigeljedi · Feb 25, 2001, 12:06 AM

Maybe Apple needs to just start a "theme related" line of Macs, or maybe "skins" you can snap onto the iMacs. Maybe "dragon scale" or "lizard skin" or "bird feather" or "downtown graffiti" or "UFO"...etc., etc. You get the idea. I see a whole new slant being opened here with the "Dalmation" and "Flower Power" models. This could be interesting...

------------------
FireMac

TheJoshu · Feb 25, 2001, 12:10 AM

I think that's a wonderful idea, but... people have been wishing for that since the 5 flavors came out, when the idea of user-customizable cases was born. Hey, maybe Apple will listen this time. Flower Power and Blue Dalmation seem to be leading us in the direction of something to that end, moreso than flat-colored iMacs at any rate.

Feb 25, 2001, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by MikeM32:
[b] Yeah all that after bashing my ideas in another thread on Camoflage and Yellow and Black striped "under construction" iMacs.

helios quit being a hipocrite

originally posted by Cipher13:
Helios - if you know design, then you know theres someone for everything.

How was I being hypocritical? Offering a nice variety of colors and shapes does NOT, I repeat NOT imply offering a comprehensive variety of colors and shapes. Why? Because they have an overall "brand" image to cultivate too. Why doesn't Gap sell camouflage jackets and army boots? There's nothing stopping them from doing so, and such products would certainly appeal to a new demographic. So why don't they?

Because it would totally wreck their brand personality.

The personality Apple is currently cultivating is all wrapped up in their visual design, in both hardware and software. The visual style is clean, light, simple, intensely artificial, and either elegant (pro & prosumer) or playful (consumer). There isn't a lot of precedent for this style in the U.S., but it's been around in Europe for ages (Scandinavian & Italian being the two most influential centers). Ever been to an Ikea? That's pretty much it, if you leave out the wood products and focus on the plastic and metal.

As long as Apple stays with this personality, you will NOT, I repeat NOT see any Apple product with an earth tone color scheme, because it just doesn't go with this style. In particular, no camouflage, and no wood grain - so all you camo and plywood types out there are out of luck.

It's not that Apple couldn't release a camo or wood grain interface for OS X, to harmonize with camo or plywood hardware - it's that they WON'T, because it clashes with their carefully cultivated brand personality.

(The bumblebee black and yellow design doesn't work either, but for more subtle reasons which I find it hard to put my finger on. If black is used, it has to be either a totally greyscale color scheme, or mostly greyscale with colors used only for small accents. An equal mixture of black and yellow, or black and red, or even black and pink or black and light blue, is just too "combative" and "heavy". You'd need to throw in a lot of white or light grey to lighten it, and crank down the amount if black, to get something like a Mondrian composition. That might be ok.)

I'm still into the customizable case concept myself. Apple can offer like a "Clear" casing and then sell "skins" for like $10-$20 each that way everyone can have a different design every month or whatever

I have nothing against skins - skins would be cool. But there's a problem: if Apple builds its machines with removable panels, what's to stop the accessory companies from making their own skins? Camo skins, wood grain skins, Britney Spears skins... suddenly, all of those carefully crafted Apple designs are being dismantled and reupholstered with every skin imaginable - and there goes your brand personality, straight down the tubes. Apple will NOT do this, unless they can figure out a way to prevent third parties from manufacturing skins (and I doubt this is legally possible).

originally posted by Cipher13:
Windows always reminds me of a prison - drab, depressing, with you locked inside... whereas the MacOS is the beautiful green (floral!) field on the other side of the mountain, far away from the prison...

Absolutely spot-on.

That's the playful side (for the consumer products, and the blue theme in Aqua). The elegant side (pro and prosumer; graphite theme in Aqua) is more subdued, but in a very light, ethereal way, either in color palette (Cube, Ti) or in transparency (Graphite iMac). The lightness is still there even when the color is not. Think "fog" or "clear water" or "obsidian", as opposed to the heavy cinder block grey of a prison cell.

Fred CHOTTIN · Feb 25, 2001, 07:51 PM

The 18 months development technology that we see in Dalmatian blue and Flower Power allows Apple to make skinnable boxes. Though i doubt they will make a wide choice for final users, i think they have in mind to make series for corporations or companies once these give Apple a pattern to reproduce. Perhaps in a few months, we will see 'La Poste' (French Mail which uses iMacs as public Internet terminals, over 1000 so far), MacDonald's, Coca-Cola, Nike, Adidas or Anything's iMacs. The Apple product below, whatever the pattern used, is still easily recognizable. The same way you recognize a car even if it is offered in 60 different colors.
If they offer final user's choice of pattern with an extra, i will send them a portrait of Bill Gates included in a Rewards poster saying 'Wanted dead or alive for too many crimes to put on a list'!

------------------
Fight against the Dark Force (Microsoft)

MikeM32 · Feb 25, 2001, 08:14 PM

I have nothing against skins - skins would be cool. But there's a problem: if Apple builds its machines with removable panels, what's to stop the accessory companies from making their own skins? Camo skins, wood grain skins, Britney Spears skins... suddenly, all of those carefully crafted Apple designs are being dismantled and reupholstered with every skin imaginable - and there goes your brand personality, straight down the tubes. Apple will NOT do this, unless they can figure out a way to prevent third parties from manufacturing skins (and I doubt this is legally possible).

Okay but here-in lies the issue......Apple started this whole thing

Now they're going to be held accountable for good/bad design sense. Many people probably do like "Flower Power" or "Blue Dalmatian", and many do not.

These people that don't are saying "well why can't I have <whatever> on my iMac? Why must I be locked into these two choices?" You see where I'm coming from? "This" person wants Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel Cieling on the case, while "this" person wants Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles on the case. Someone else wants the original 1977 "Star Wars" Movie poster on the case.

They've openned up a whole new can of worms here. The consumer end could care less and doesn't want to be dictated a "design philosophy", because everyone has different tastes.

I mean I think it's great that they're doing this sort of thing, but the real issue here is the people who want "something else". Thus a customizable clear case with skins you can interchange. Again It's the best solution for the rest of us IMHO. Let 3rd parties manufacture them too. Apple still sells the actual hardware either way, and this way nobody is left out.

Mike

jholmes · Feb 25, 2001, 08:34 PM

Mike - you're missing helios' very valid point
By building skinable iMacs (which I personally think is a cool idea, but I agree with helios as to why it won't happen) Apple would give up their very carefully developed brand identity as the company that builds cool looking stuff. They'd become the company that builds generic looking stuff that you can mess with.
I don't see Apple, who is internationally renowned for their design, who changed the world with their graphic interface 17 years ago and who has built design firmly into their brand, giving it away to let users do what they want.

Even though that would truly be a computer for the rest of us.