[fourstarcltv]

a couple on nice improvements i've noticed whilst running safari under panther:

- the infamous 'stalling' while loading ign.com sites is now gone, loads straight up with no delay.

- under jag, the first time i would go to select a bookmark from the bookmark bar pull-down the beach ball would rear its ugly head (my guess was it was loading the bookmarks), with panther there is no delay.

it's these little things that, for me, really make the difference. good job apple !

[moki]

Originally posted by ambush:
The Finder is cocoa (the app is a .app package, the nstoolbar isn't an ugly hack)

No, it is not Cocoa. The Finder is a .nib-based Carbon application in Panther.

[JKT]

Originally posted by moki:
No, it is not Cocoa. The Finder is a .nib-based Carbon application in Panther.

How much closer in behaviour are the two under Panther (e.g. are scrolling, open/save dialogues, Services, Font Book usage, etc behaviours the same, or is there still an obvious difference?)

TIA

[Michel Fortin]

Originally posted by gthyb:
you CAN close windows minimized in the dock, but so far it looks like just finder windows.

You can too in Jaguar (in Finder). Open any finder window (it may even be the preference panel), minimize it, then hit cmd-w (or go to the file menu and choose close window). The minimized window will close.

[curan]

What new desktop pictures are included in the Panther Beta? If any at all.

[DVD Plaza]

Originally posted by BuonRotto:
In Panther, the "aqua" and "metal" buttons look the same, and they're all "sunken."

Given every single Panther screenshot posted in these forums thus far have had proper aqua buttons on aqua dialogs, I'd disagree with this.

The login panel is the first aqua dialog posted thus far that has had brushed metal buttons on it (which, in addition to being sunked, have a utterly different shading effect on them).

Even the Finder screen shots have had brushed metal buttons on the brushed metal Finder, but aqua version of those same buttons when used on the aqua open/save sheet.

[MacDork]

Originally posted by CatOne:
The brightness and volume keys work just fine for me on Panther preview, on my 1 GH TiBook.

That's not really what I'm asking: what I want to know is... currently:

Brightness = F1

What I WANT is.......
Brightness = "fn" + F1


Is there a way to toggle that behavior, like there was in OS 9?

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by kuran:
What new desktop pictures are included in the Panther Beta? If any at all.

None. No new sounds either. Most questions are answered in my thread

[Mithras]

I'm --VERY-- interested to see an answer to this question:

The posts about iTunes sharing indicate that under Fast User Switching, your apps continue to run even when you've switched users. (i.e., they're not 'suspended', they run normally.)

Someone with Panther, can you:

1. install a VNC server app (here)
2. run it under one account
3. Switch to a different user
4. From another computer, run a VNC client (here), and try to get the first user's desktop?

If that works, it means you can have multiple simultaneous GUI users, which will absolutely rock.

But it may be that the API that the VNC server uses has changed in Panther, in which case this will be an unresolved question.

One other way to address the same question is this:
1. Log in as one user. Open some apps, whatever.
2. Switch to a different user, with a recognizably different background, etc.
3. From the same or different computer, SSH in as the first user. Type 'screencapture /Users/Shared/mydesk.pdf'
4. Does screencapture work, or does it complain about broken interlocks?
5. If it worked, open up and look at the screenshot. Is it of the first user's desktop?

[bamburg dunes]

If anyone has the time, could you maybe check to see if Apache is up to version 2? That would be sweet if it was.
I read the specs for Panther server adn it mentioed Samba 3, has that filtered down to the client version?

Someone mentioend earlier how 10.2 leaves .ds_store files on shares such as on a windows machine, there's a way to prevent this. I haven't tried it yet but can be done.

Cheers for the reports. Good work!!!!

[Moose]

Originally posted by SOLIDAge:
and...why is it pirated?

Read the Panther EULA and your Apple NDA (if you even have one, which is doubtful). If you are under NDA, then you are not to distribute Panther to anyone at all, unless they are both under NDA with you, and they have a need to use it. Not want. Need. This includes immediate family. If you are not under NDA with Apple and have not received Panther from Apple, then you are not licensed to use the software.

anyway, it was installed because she really needed the quick user feature since her and my sister use it.

Ethical (NDA/software licensing) considerations aside, there's no way in hell I'd consider putting a pre-release operating system on a not-technically-inclined family member's computer. This OS is not finished. There are serious bugs--the most serious ones I've seen are critical security flaws with the Multiple Users functionality.

One more time, boys and girls: The Panther Developer Preview SHOULD NOT be installed on "production" machines for day-to-day usage, because you WILL lose data, either from a panic, or from some nasty hidden bug that eats your files or filesystem. It is not a matter of "if," but, instead, a matter of "when."

[Gee4orce]

Originally posted by Mithras:


Someone with Panther, can you:

1. install a VNC server app (here)
2. run it under one account
3. Switch to a different user
4. From another computer, run a VNC client (here), and try to get the first user's desktop?

Good thinking ! And maybe Apple Remote Desktop (which sounds like it's bundled now) will do this as well or instead ?!

[:haripu:]

I have just installed the Panther preview and I am blown away! The speed, the functionality!

However, its looks are not consistant anymore, it feels more like three different themes thrown together: Aqua, Metal and a totally new one for the title-bars.

Hope they do some serious design work on that until they release it. Love the new tabs, by the way.

[MasonMcD]

Originally posted by Mithras:
I'm --VERY-- interested to see an answer to this question:

The posts about iTunes sharing indicate that under Fast User Switching, your apps continue to run even when you've switched users. (i.e., they're not 'suspended', they run normally.)

Someone with Panther, can you:

1. install a VNC server app (here)
2. run it under one account
3. Switch to a different user
4. From another computer, run a VNC client (here), and try to get the first user's desktop?

If that works, it means you can have multiple simultaneous GUI users, which will absolutely rock.

But it may be that the API that the VNC server uses has changed in Panther, in which case this will be an unresolved question.

One other way to address the same question is this:
1. Log in as one user. Open some apps, whatever.
2. Switch to a different user, with a recognizably different background, etc.
3. From the same or different computer, SSH in as the first user. Type 'screencapture /Users/Shared/mydesk.pdf'
4. Does screencapture work, or does it complain about broken interlocks?
5. If it worked, open up and look at the screenshot. Is it of the first user's desktop?

Regarding VNC, no, you cannot. VNC scrapes the screen, so you are just looking at user2.

Not sure about the second item, but I suspect similar to the first.

[RooneyX]

Originally posted by Moose:


One more time, boys and girls: The Panther Developer Preview SHOULD NOT be installed on "production" machines for day-to-day usage, because you WILL lose data, either from a panic, or from some nasty hidden bug that eats your files or filesystem. It is not a matter of "if," but, instead, a matter of "when." [/B]

Oh shut up. Apple probably enjoys the leakage now, like posting the G5 specs. Has anyone noticed their stock has shot up this week since they got tongues waggling?

The more people speak, the better for Apple as a business and the more free promotion it is. You can only install OSX on a Mac anyway so it's not near the kind of loss that software companies experience on the PC. And pirated betas are a zero loss, they cost nothing to the people who recieved them in the first place.

BTW, I am not downloading and installing any beta OS.

[Pierre B.]

I don't know if this has already been posted, but could someone comment on OpenGL in Panther? In what version is it? Is there some improvement in game performance?

Concerning DVD player: the decoding is still done in CPU or has enabled GPU decoding (for supported cards obviously)? What is the typical CPU usage for DVD player?

[jokell82]

Originally posted by RooneyX:
Oh shut up. Apple probably enjoys the leakage now, like posting the G5 specs. Has anyone noticed their stock has shot up this week since they got tongues waggling?

The more people speak, the better for Apple as a business and the more free promotion it is. You can only install OSX on a Mac anyway so it's not near the kind of loss that software companies experience on the PC. And pirated betas are a zero loss, they cost nothing to the people who recieved them in the first place.

BTW, I am not downloading and installing any beta OS.

Actually, he's right. Regardless of how you get Panther, it should not be installed on a machine that you need to be up 100%. There is a very good possibility that something will go wrong and you could lose lots of data. This is for testing only, not for full time use... And installing it for other people who may not be technically savvy is just asking for something disasterous to happen.

And that has nothing to do with whether or not you pirated the software. That's a completely different issue.

[Moose]

Originally posted by RooneyX:
Oh shut up. Apple probably enjoys the leakage now, like posting the G5 specs. Has anyone noticed their stock has shot up this week since they got tongues waggling?

Apple does not, in fact, enjoy leakage. If they did, they wouldn't be sending out C&Ds like they were scrips for Claritin. Also, AAPL hasn't been where it opened on Monday since early Tuesday morning. But don't let those pesky facts and figures distract you.

The more people speak, the better for Apple as a business and the more free promotion it is.

When a pre-release build of Panther that Johnny Earlyteen downloaded and installed on the Family iMac to play around with eats data, who's he going to blame? (Hint: Not himself.) Who are his parents going to blame? (Hopefully him, but who knows?)

And pirated betas are a zero loss, they cost nothing to the people who recieved them in the first place.

You mean WWDC attendance is free? And so is ADC Select/Premiere membership? Astounding! I wish somebody had told me before I spent all that money.

BTW, I am not downloading and installing any beta OS.

Good for you. That just means that you happen not to suffer from that particular bit of retardation. But attempting to rationalize their behavior doesn't help things by any means.

[ambush]

Originally posted by Pierre B.:
I don't know if this has already been posted, but could someone comment on OpenGL in Panther? In what version is it? Is there some improvements in game performance?

Concerning DVD player: the decoding is still done in CPU or has enabled GPU decoding (for supported cards obviously)? What is the typical CPU usage for DVD player?

I use Panther and the New Quake3 AltiVec to play Quake3: TrueCombat and I'm very pleased with the FPS I get at medium quality! At last, it's playable!

[jimcpherson]

Sorry if this a repeat question, but how does Expos� perform on a dual monitor setup?

[OreoCookie]

One specific question: can you print in reverse order? Odd and even pages?

[monkeybrain]

Originally posted by moki:
No, it is not Cocoa. The Finder is a .nib-based Carbon application in Panther.

If its .nib based, can you open these up and mess with the interface (ie metal off) like you can in cocoa apps?

[Mithras]

Originally posted by MasonMcD:
Regarding VNC, no, you cannot. VNC scrapes the screen, so you are just looking at user2.

Not sure about the second item, but I suspect similar to the first.

Did you actually try this, are you just saying it? Because OSXvnc-server does not just 'scrape the screen', it calls APIs that return screen contents.

FYI, if you try this in 10.2 (with a command-line VNC server), it complains because it doesn't have privileges to connect to the current screen. It certainly does not return 'user2's screen; I consider the least likely of possible outcomes.

[Pete Nardi]

Originally posted by jokell82:
Actually, he's right. Regardless of how you get Panther, it should not be installed on a machine that you need to be up 100%. There is a very good possibility that something will go wrong and you could lose lots of data. This is for testing only, not for full time use... And installing it for other people who may not be technically savvy is just asking for something disasterous to happen.

And that has nothing to do with whether or not you pirated the software. That's a completely different issue.

Piracy aside, this is an excellent point. All these folks piling on this beta will be the first ones to "blame" it for loss of their data. Remember the nasty bug in the Safari beta that was trashing peoples' home directories?

[AJ]

Originally posted by Pete Nardi:
Piracy aside, this is an excellent point. All these folks piling on this beta will be the first ones to "blame" it for loss of their data. Remember the nasty bug in the Safari beta that was trashing peoples' home directories?

Never heard of that one. I think your getting confused with the iTunes installer bug

[lazydesert]

Originally posted by jimcpherson:
Sorry if this a repeat question, but how does Expos� perform on a dual monitor setup?

It brings them all back to the primary monitor.

[CatOne]

Originally posted by AJ:
Never heard of that one. I think your getting confused with the iTunes installer bug

No, there was a pretty sinky bug with Beta 1, that was fixed in a secondary Beta 1 release. It would definitely wipe out your home directory, in some circumstances where you quit a download in the middle.

[jaysones]

Other observations-

Pierre B.- OpenGL is at 1.2.5. It's very fast. I haven't benchmarked anything yet, but I'm pretty critical, and I can play Unreal Tournament at a higher resolution than under Jaguar, and, even then, it's perceptibly faster.

VirtualPC is much, much more usable. I hated using it under Jaguar because it would bog the whole system down, especially while quitting. Not anymore. I forgot it was running all morning, and when I quit it, I used other apps with no nearly performance hit while it saved and quit. Previously, it would nearly lock up my system until it was done.

[wulf]

Originally posted by sushiism:
noo i didnt mean it was mispelt i mean it was placed a bit dodgy, its like half to the right of the buttons too, (the buttons which clearly dont just go back �_�

This is how it looks to me, 'Back', 'View' and 'Action' all look slightly off-centre relative to their corresponding buttons.

Originally posted by jokell82:
And it's true, here's a screenshot:

Haven't tried to load a word document, though.

Yes it loads and saves fine, simple Word documents seem to translate nicely. This is great, very useful for those who don't have Office. (Most of my usage of Word is just to open other people's simple documents.)

Originally posted by hellmachine:
my first downer:
camino don�t work anymore :-(
it just can�t access render any html.
i deleted all prefs etc.
now i have to use netscape for browserchecks.
camino had a smaller footprint...

That's weird, Camino 0.7 works fine for me. See here.

Originally posted by conny:
I guess I can answer my own question since I found this screenshot in another thread. The left pane is not hidden but I guess that is a smaller issue.

Someone might have mentioned this, but you can close the left pane completely. Also, clicking the top-right 'lozenge' will collapse both the left pane and the iconbar.

Originally posted by lookmark:
This unification (and a few other Panther hints) make me curious if they're going to open up Panther to users being able to choose Aqua or Metal, either across the system or app-by-app.

You'd think so, eh? But I suspect Stev... I mean Apple, have other ideas

[Toyin]

-

[BannanaFiend]

A bit of good news that I've not seen mentioned:

Spring-loaded folders in column view are much better. Instead of opening a new window (with varying results as in Jag), it just springs open the folder in the next column. The toolbar items on the left are spring loaded in this manner too,

Additionally, when you switch off the toolbars with the pill in the upper right of a Finder window, it becomes propperly spatial ala os 9 (so far as I've seen; there could very well be some problems). One caveat here, when using spring loaded folders in this mode, the folders that spring up are in full toolbar mode, and sometimes not in the same view as the current window. I'd expect this is just an oversight, and will be corrected.

If memory serves, in Jag, if you double clicked on a folder to open a new one, then did it again, you would have two folders of the same window. This is not the case in Panther. Opening a folder that already has an open window results in the folder's original window being brought to the front.

The new finder is shaping up to be a real winner. My only complaints are the horrible method of label selection from within a menu (it should be a submenu like in OS 9, not this guideline-breaking horizontal selection crap), and the brushed metal interface. I think the former may be fixed for the final, but the latter, probably not. On the whole though, A+ excellent.

[Pete Nardi]

Originally posted by AJ:
Never heard of that one. I think your getting confused with the iTunes installer bug

Nope it was Safari. MacNN even reported it (http://www.macnn.com/news.php?id=18021)

Pete

[Pete Nardi]

Sorry if this one's been asked, but anyone runnning Panther notice any change to the installed apps (other than Mail)? I heard there's now auto-formatting of phone numbers in address book (a welcome addition). I'm specifically interested in iCal - has it improved? Have they added a snooze feature?

Thanks to all you Panther-Pioneers for answering these questions

Pete

[LightWaver-67]

Originally posted by jimcpherson:
Sorry if this a repeat question, but how does Expos� perform on a dual monitor setup?

I strongly second that question... I use a 3-display setup and am curious how it would act...

While I'm thinking of it... I wonder what happens during a "Fast User Switch" with multiple monitors...? do they ALL rotate as individual cubes...? or does it revert to the quick change without the fancy transition...?

Hmmmm... would be curious to hear, if anyone knows.

Thanks...

[spectre]

Originally posted by jaysones:
Other observations-

Pierre B.- OpenGL is at 1.2.5. It's very fast. I haven't benchmarked anything yet, but I'm pretty critical, and I can play Unreal Tournament at a higher resolution than under Jaguar, and, even then, it's perceptibly faster.

This is great to hear.. I was worried that it wouldn't even run. I get pretty dismal performance in 10.2 on my quicksilver 733 in UT. Do you have any more specific details in terms of the fps boost from going to 10.3? What kinda computer do you have?

Thanks

[nerd]

Originally posted by TC:
I just connected to a PC disk from my machine.
It didn't show up in the network folder and I had to add it manually. After I had it showed up next to all the other disks on my machine.

Will you try to copy some files with the "special characters" in them such as "& [ ] { }" and let us know if it's fixed? I'm assuming it must be if a user folder can now easily reside on a windows share via active directory. Jaguar chokes when copying over files with these characters and even when the file has a space before a "." like " .".

Thanks

Brad

[krove]

Originally posted by RooneyX:
Oh shut up. Apple probably enjoys the leakage now, like posting the G5 specs. Has anyone noticed their stock has shot up this week since they got tongues waggling?

The more people speak, the better for Apple as a business and the more free promotion it is. You can only install OSX on a Mac anyway so it's not near the kind of loss that software companies experience on the PC. And pirated betas are a zero loss, they cost nothing to the people who recieved them in the first place.

BTW, I am not downloading and installing any beta OS.

Umm, yeah, the only people who are "talking about it" are serious Mac-heads. Apple already has you hooked -- their objective is to get new people hooked on the brand.

Any average Mac user still has no idea what Panther is or what features it contains. Geez, I still work with people who barely understand how OS 9 works, let alone OS X.

Your cost justification for pirated beta software may be true, but ethically and legally, you are still liable for your actions and can be prosecuted. Not to mention the whole bad karma thing...

[Busemann]

Originally posted by BannanaFiend:
A bit of good news that I've not seen mentioned:

Spring-loaded folders in column view are much better. Instead of opening a new window (with varying results as in Jag), it just springs open the folder in the next column. The toolbar items on the left are spring loaded in this manner too,

Additionally, when you switch off the toolbars with the pill in the upper right of a Finder window, it becomes propperly spatial ala os 9 (so far as I've seen; there could very well be some problems). One caveat here, when using spring loaded folders in this mode, the folders that spring up are in full toolbar mode, and sometimes not in the same view as the current window. I'd expect this is just an oversight, and will be corrected.

If memory serves, in Jag, if you double clicked on a folder to open a new one, then did it again, you would have two folders of the same window. This is not the case in Panther. Opening a folder that already has an open window results in the folder's original window being brought to the front.

The new finder is shaping up to be a real winner. My only complaints are the horrible method of label selection from within a menu (it should be a submenu like in OS 9, not this guideline-breaking horizontal selection crap), and the brushed metal interface. I think the former may be fixed for the final, but the latter, probably not. On the whole though, A+ excellent.

Make a new folder in list view though and you still can not edit name at once

[BannanaFiend]

Originally posted by Busemann:
Make a new folder in list view though and you still can not edit name at once

Hmm... I had never noticed that before. Strange that it hasn't been fixed yet.

[Musti]

Anyone with print problems, especially gimp/foomatic thingies working on ghostscript, kind of stuff from linuxprinting.org?