[teszeract]

I'm sure that VT only has listings of software that developers register witht he site, so that limits their DB. But recently I found that I find a lot more software results in my searches at AppleGuide . Example: search for 3d on both sites - 157 results on AppleGuide, 81 results by VT!

How does it work with the guide anyway? Are all developers reqd to register their software with Apple? I can't believe that!

[Phoenix1701]

I think they proactively go and search out software... man, I'd love to have that job. It's what I do all day anyway!
And I'm disappointed to find that they don't have Beachball on there... hmph. I'll see if I can't fix that.

[KaptainKaya]

I stopped useing VT when you had to pay to get direct downloads. I use MacUpdate now, although its not as detailed as AppleGuide.

[Justin W. Williams]

Tried macUpdate, but couldnt get used to it. I just deal with VT. Oh well.

[Adam Betts]

One thing you should note is that not all of the software at AppleGuide is compatible for OSX. Some of them are for OS 9 only.

If you combine both of the result in OS 9 and OS X in VersionTracker.com, you should get around the same amount of results

But still a good find. I'll use AppleGuide sometime if I can't find a software in VT.

BTW, I'm a paid subscriber at VT. No such things are free these day.

[teszeract]

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
One thing you should note is that not all of the software at AppleGuide is compatible for OSX. Some of them are for OS 9 only.\

Actually I ticked the "OSX Software only" box. But I learned about MacUpdate today, and so I am

[swiz]

Damn! Appleguide looks better than any of the others too.

[Sharky K.]

Macupdate and versiontracker are both really slow. Versiontracker because of the spam and macupdate because of the server

[Adam Betts]

I'd be really surprised if anyone actually use MacUpdate as their daily software update website. It's so crap there with ugly website and poorly organized. Lot of inconsistency. I prefer VT over MacUpdate anytime.

Know what's worser? The owner of MacUpdate think MacUpdate.com website is beautiful and kick some ass.

[Zimphire]

I use MacUpdate too. VT has been going downhill for a few years now. I wont go into Macfixit charging people for information that regular joes like you and me are providing them.

[Adam Betts]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
I use MacUpdate too. VT has been going downhill for a few years now. I wont go into Macfixit charging people for information that regular joes like you and me are providing them.

I bet you're looking for a serial number to crack VT since you can't seem to afford it too

[BuonRotto]

Neither MacUpdate nor VersionTracker are ideal. MacUpdates' pages can be hard to read. VersionTracker made the same mistake most of the dot coms made in the late 90's -- the free model, and we kind of took this for granted. we probably wouldn't mind the pay model so much if it was that way the whole time. I wouldn't mind it so much either if the reviews were more worthwhile (sort of a lame chat room/bulletin board thing going on there).

Some of the reason these sites were created in the first place was to find out about the latest updates of the software you already have. I have a bunch of application that will check for updates within the app, thereby cutting out the middleman, i.e., VT or MU. It's good for me, but bad for them. I imagine that has impacted their hits, therefore their advertising, therefore their revenue, therefore their quality.

I'm a bit surprised that the resellers haven't caught on, and integrated this level of functionality into their online stores. The amount of traffic through their stores might offset the overhead of maintaining this service, even if they display updates to titles they don't carry, like small third party developers. Certainly if Apple gets just a little more serious about their similar service, it would kill them.

[eno]

Originally posted by BuonRotto:
Neither MacUpdate nor VersionTracker are ideal. MacUpdates' pages can be hard to read. VersionTracker made the same mistake most of the dot coms made in the late 90's -- the free model, and we kind of took this for granted. we probably wouldn't mind the pay model so much if it was that way the whole time.

Bah, humbug.

Their mistake wasn't to go free. Back in those days it was the right thing to do. Enough money could be made from advertising revenue. If they'd've gone to the subscriber model back then, nobody would even know who they are now, because nobody would've joined.

Their mistake now, IMO, is that they've pissed a lot of people off with their increasing corporatisation, commercialisation, and apparent greed.

I remember the good old days when VT was just a list of links.

Now it's a slow, spam-bloated behemoth with a slew of undesired "features" they've added in an effort to differentiate their paid product from their free version.

Sadly, their so-called "features" weren't attractive enough: they've found that they have had to cripple the free version in order to increase the differentiation between their "products".

Ah well, I still use it though. I find it has the most comprehensive listings. And I don't mind the couple of extra clicks to get the download happening. It's not like I download more than a few pieces of software per day, so all in all it probably adds a minute to my browsing.

I'll never pay for VT.

If they close off the free listings entirely I'll move along somewhere else.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Adam Betts:


I bet you're looking for a serial number to crack VT since you can't seem to afford it too

Yeah, that's the ticket!
Naw I wouldn't go through the trouble. There are free alternatives that are even better.

[barney ntd]

From a developer's perspective, VersionTracker provides a pretty good service. I submitted my program "Robot Controller" to VT when I decided it was good enough for general use, because that's the page I check for updates. I get about 400 downloads each time I submit a new version, and the "reviews" section acts as a mini bulletin board dedicated to the product.

I've never submitted it to MacUpdate, but it picks up the updates soon after I submit them to VT. I get nearly 100 downloads per update, but nobody has posted a review.

Apple's Macintosh Products Guide doesn't list it, so they can't be that proactive about searching things out.

Barney

[macupdate]

I'm the creator of the MacUpdate website, and I'm open to any suggestions to make MacUpdate more intuitive for you. We're alreadying beating VT to 80% of the updates they post, offer a free desktop menubar tool called MUMenu that allows you to view the latest 15 Mac OS X releases on your desktop for FREE, and we offer UpdateRadar, a $12 ONE-TIME shareware fee that matches the VT Desktop Pro tool.

We also match VT's Pro membership features and give them to users for free. These features include: email update notifications, custom watch lists, customizable layouts, download history, keyword email notifications, and more.

We're 100% behind the Macintosh community and want to make it a software stronghold for you and the entire Macintosh community.

-Joel Mueller
[email protected]

[Justin W. Williams]

Originally posted by macupdate:
I'm the creator of the MacUpdate website, and I'm open to any suggestions to make MacUpdate more intuitive for you.

Increase the font size

Make a slimmer version of the site. the main page has way too much stuff going on. (ie. all the stuff on the side).

Those are my only two suggestions.

[smeger]

Joel - please make it easier to submit changes to products. I've tried three times to update ThemePark's expiration date as shown on MacUpdate, to no avail.

Despite my giant annoyance with the developer side of it, I generally prefer MacUpdate to VT. VT seems to have dropped the "we're helping the mac community" attitude that they used to have, and adopted a "we're straight-up whores" one instead

[gorgonzola]

Originally posted by macupdate:
I'm the creator of the MacUpdate website, and I'm open to any suggestions to make MacUpdate more intuitive for you. We're alreadying beating VT to 80% of the updates they post, offer a free desktop menubar tool called MUMenu that allows you to view the latest 15 Mac OS X releases on your desktop for FREE, and we offer UpdateRadar, a $12 ONE-TIME shareware fee that matches the VT Desktop Pro tool.

We also match VT's Pro membership features and give them to users for free. These features include: email update notifications, custom watch lists, customizable layouts, download history, keyword email notifications, and more.

We're 100% behind the Macintosh community and want to make it a software stronghold for you and the entire Macintosh community.

-Joel Mueller
[email protected]

The services offered by MacUpdate are certainly far superior to those offered by VT, and that macupdate.com/searchterm thing is a huge time-saver. But the main page design really is a problem. Take a look.

I just went to macupdate.com, and the ENTIRE first screenful of text is filled with stuff other than updates. I have to page down to even begin to start reading. Several times, I've gone to macupdate.com and been confused as to where everything is; in short, the problem is not so much the side, but all the stuff on the top.

Quite frankly, the "Giveaway" and "Hot picks" sections are huge and gratuitous -- they don't really need to be there. And those ads (MacDialup, SmallDog, etc) should be moved further down so they're (for example) between today's updates and yesterday's updates. That would move everything up quite a lot and make the site a LOT more usable.

My 2�.

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by smeger:
Joel - please make it easier to submit changes to products. I've tried three times to update ThemePark's expiration date as shown on MacUpdate, to no avail.

I agree. Although I eventually was able to get the changes to my e-mail address, web page, and shareware status to show up on MacUpdate, it took some time and wasn't easy.

I also do like VT's rating system, although it does unfortunately encourage less informed individuals to put crappy ratings on things with very little provocation...

[davecom]

Originally posted by CharlesS:

I agree. Although I eventually was able to get the changes to my e-mail address, web page, and shareware status to show up on MacUpdate, it took some time and wasn't easy.

I also do like VT's rating system, although it does unfortunately encourage less informed individuals to put crappy ratings on things with very little provocation...

Exactly, although I personally prefer VersionTracker just because I'm used to it, I submit my software to both sites. However MacUpdate makes more mistakes in the submissions, and mis-marked my software as shareware. Bottom line is that VersionTracker treats developers better.

[OwlBoy]

Anyone Remember the Days of infomac Hyper Archive?

http://hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/HyperArchive.html

Ahhh, memories.

-Owl

[Anomalous]

TV has survived on the ad model for decades. I'm disappointed that sites like VersionTracker haven't been able to do the same - web sites cost a lot less to provide than TV shows do.

I think the user ratings system on VT needs improvement - there is too much flaming and unfair excessive criticism of people's hard work. Just my opinion.

[proux]

The main gripe about macupdate is that the servers are a bit slow. I don't mind having to scroll down because there are so many updates you have to scroll anyway...

The only reason I go to VT is because the user feedback is easier to access (one less click from main page) and more complete (not much you can do there...). Occasinally macupdate forgets software (latest canon scanner driver?).

At least we have the choice and can compare. Both are an invaluable tool to the mac community. Apple should give them money or buy them, call it iTracker

[davecom]

Originally posted by proux:
Apple should give them money or buy them, call it iTracker:p

I hope not!!! It's important that the press stays independent. What if Apple decides they don't like a company so they don't show its products?

[gorickey]

I use MacUpdate daily simply for the fact that Unsanity has made a menu extra called "MUMenu 1.1" that works flawlessly with direct download links and descriptions from within the menu extra. No going to a web-site (unless you want "more" information) or anything...great work!

Here is a link to the menu extra:

http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/8277

Enjoy!

[Developer]

Originally posted by gorickey:
MacUpdate: [...] No going to a web-site (unless you want "more" information) or anything...

Maybe that's one of the reasons there are so few reviews on MacUpdate.

I get about 5 times more downloads from Versiontracker, and about 20 (!) times more reviews.

And they really need to improve their web site design. The font is much smaller and harder to read, and yet you have to scroll more than one page before you even see the updates.

Another advantage of Versiontracker is, that it holds the updates for full two days. I think that's another reason I get more downloads from there.
In MacUpdate if you are updated in the morning, it might be that you are pushed out of the front page by the afternoon.

[wil]

macupdate.com and versiontracker start showing updates at the same spot in my browser. I mean, the exact same spot vertically.

i've also used www.macosxapps.com as a resource. i'd never heard of macupdate until this thread and I think it rocks.

then again, i never put any stock in VTs rating system.

[msykes]

I have to agree that I get 4-5 times more downloads on my app via Versiontracker than MacUpdate... though being rather Pro-Mac I'd love to be happier about MacUpdate.

I'm a little concerned about the Developper Submission feature, there's no login/verification process, which though it saves an extra step, it also has a total lack of security.

If there was a developer login feature, it could also keep track of your submissions, and make updating them easier

And where do my reviews go when I post them? I can't seem to figure out how to read them.

[CheesePuff]

The only reason I paid is so that I can see the top downloads.

[BTP]

What pushed me to Macupdate from VT was their model where they push ads in a very annoying way. Spare me the same old story about the ad model and the need to push ads in my face to pay for it all. No matter where I click, I get more ads even when I want to go to the developer page.

Now, I use Macupdate and I still visit VT, but I have blocked *all* ads via Mozilla. Just too many ads and it is annoying.

One thing VT has that is great is the reviews. Sometimes they have some great info. But that is about it.

[hyperizer]

What annoys me about both VT and MacUpdate is they sometimes post links to software that was discovered in an insecure FTP directory somewhere but hasn't been officially released. There have been several unofficial Adobe and Roxio updaters posted that have caused problems on people's machines, for example. This makes both sites rather unreliable, IMO.

(Not that I'm the sort to immediately install new software anyway these days. Better to wait a little while and see if people experience problems with a release.)

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by hyperizer:
What annoys me about both VT and MacUpdate is they sometimes post links to software that was discovered in an insecure FTP directory somewhere but hasn't been officially released. There have been several unofficial Adobe and Roxio updaters posted that have caused problems on people's machines, for example. This makes both sites rather unreliable, IMO.

(Not that I'm the sort to immediately install new software anyway these days. Better to wait a little while and see if people experience problems with a release.)

Hear, hear. I did *not* want BootCD to be listed on VersionTracker and consequently given nasty reviews because it's not done yet. I was planning to wait until I at least got it to a 1.0 beta before posting on VT. But lo and behold, they went and posted the thing without my permission, earning a big from me (but what can I do?).

[bewebste]

Personally, I use the VT plug-in that comes with Watson. It's faster than going to the webpage, plus you can have it show you only what's new since the last time you used it. This is very helpful for me since I sometimes check more than once a day and don't necessarily remember what the last product posted was the last time I was there, so it saves time not having to scan through a whole bunch of stuff I've already seen.

[dfiler]

Yep, VT is a pale shadow of its former self.

While still functional (technically) their page layout and navigation flow has become quite convoluted. I think the free-to-pay conversion would have been met with less much hostility if the GUI hadn't degraded at the same time. Its hard to put your finger on a specific example of this clutter and clumsyness. However annecdotal evidence suggests that users now have to work to find what they want rather than being pleasantly surprised by VT's simplicity. I used to be able to tell people simply 'Go to versiontracker and get the update.' That is no longer the case.

Is the diffence subtle? Yes, but this attention to detail is subconciously ingrained into the MacOS culture. VT is now in the same category as windows... sure it works, but who wants to lick it?

[macupdate]

I've taken some of your suggestions and created a beta layout for the front page of MacUpdate. Please let me know specifically what you LIKE better and disklike over the current MU front page layout:

http://www.macupdate.com/beta.php

As for developers submitting changes, you can always send me an email with the information. OR put a note at the top of the Description field on the submissions page stating specifically what content needs to be updated on your listings.

-Joel
www.macupdate.com

[BuonRotto]

Hi Joel (nice name BTW ),

I use Macupdate a lot, so I thought I'd share some feedback since you've solicited for it a bit here. I don't have a big problem with the font size myself. Though it's on te small side, it alows more stuff to be listed on the page. I also don't mind the placement of the sponsor ads/info. My one criticism might be that at the top portion of the front page, it's a bit hard to find the categories for software, e.g., Business, Development, Drivers, etc.

On the individual software pages, perhaps a simple change so that the software title could either be a link to the download (as well as keeping the "Download Now" link) or a link to the company's web page. I prefer having the similar titles under the description instead of reviews, though maybe the reader reviews link could be a bit bigger.

As far as the software categories, I suppose the links therein are a little unexpected in that they're almost too simply displayed. For example, in the link for Multimedia and Design, there are a bunch of small links to the sub-categories horizontally, then a vertical ist of them in a "frame" with a George Lucas look-alike holding a cmaera. For whatever reason, and this is purely subjective so take it with a grain of salt, it always looks like there's more stuff to load on the page. The links in the verttical list seem spaced and sized like there's going to be more stuff around them. Sounds stupid, and it probably is.

I couldn't tell you about how quickly you update the site. I'm not quite that obsessive about updating my apps!

[Gul Banana]

MacUpdate is a good site in general, but I extremely dislike the way that it prepends "X" to OS X software. For example, FocusLayer becomes FocusLayer X, which just sounds stupid to me.

[proux]

The new beta page is better layout, but doesn't look as sleek as the current one...
Anyway please show all the updates for a specific day, don't put some updates for a day split between 2 pages.

Thanks for taking feedback here!

[dfiler]

The MacUpdate beta page is progressing nicely. We really appreciate you including user feedback into your development cycle.

Here's a couple of suggestions to consider:

The top of the page is still a bit clumsy or cluttered. There are quite a few rectangular regions and borders which detract from a user's ability to quickly discern groupings of links and content. There are a number of ways to rememdy this. A suggestion off the top of my head would be to put the following links on one line, or at least in the same rectangular region: About, Add File, Hot Picks, Weekly Popular, Giveaway, Help Price Comparison, the Go To: Categories popup list and the Search field. These are all top level navigation links and would be best as one section in the layout. This would allow the top most "Sign-up" section to be moved to the Member login area to the right of the main list.

The updates-list header is also a bit busy. I would prefer to see it have a more cohesive background color and font selection. This would quickly comunicate that all the information in this area is related soley to the list found below.

I think these two (three?) suggestions would greatly simplify the page. They also eliminate an entire horizontal bar from the top of the page, the most valuable screen-estate.

With more time, I would have put more effort into phrasing my comments in a kinder manner. Again, thanks for opening yourself up for feedback.

[Xeo]

macupdate,

Are you trying to make money with MacUpdate? I ask because I want to know the purpose of the ads. If you are trying to be profitable, that's one thing and that's OK. If you're just trying to cover hosting and hardware costs, there might be other solutions. For example, I might know someone who could take on the hardware and bandwidth problems for free. As I said, this is only if you aren't trying to be profitable.

With that said, I think the ads should go between days, not stuck in the middle of one day. That's awkward and not fair to the products that end up below them.

[Developer]

Originally posted by macupdate:

http://www.macupdate.com/beta.php

I think it's better, but I'd like:

- my watch list after the list of updates
- two full days of updates on the front page
- the ads between the days of updates not at a random place in the middle
- the Hot Picks I think could have icons. They are now vertically and there's plenty of space on that right column
- larger font please
- another color for the control panel
- rating column on the front page

I think that's it for the front page.

I understand that you can't make screenshots of all apps, but I would upload one if there would be a way from the app submission page. Would that be feasable?

[macupdate]

Thank you for all of your comments and recommendations to make MacUpdate's front page more friendly to your liking. For now, I took some of the "winning elements" of the beta design and added them to the live front page.

As for the font size, what font do you want for the title and short description? And how large? Please keep in mind that too large makes it harder to scan the page.

I'm not going to make the beta page go live, so don't worry! I was simply testing elements to see if you preferred them over the current live layout. I really like the idea of listing all of the day's updates on the front page (or 50 if there are less than that released in a single day). However, I think that 2-days worth is way too much and would make the page load slowly, cost a lot in bandwidth expenses and turn the site into "scroll city".

I inquired with 37signals.com to do a redesign on the front page, as they are the BEST web interface designers that I've come across, however they quoted around $6,000 for a single page. This is quite pricey for a site with minimal advertising such as MacUpdate, so I guess I'm going to have to give it a whirl some more.

The Good News is that MacUpdate is on multiple 45Mbps lines now instead of T1 lines. The speed should be dramatically faster and I hope you appreciate this.

Keep the suggestions coming. I listen to you!

-Joel
www.macupdate.com