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mac freak · Oct 22, 2003, 12:27 PM

Else we'll have a major price/performance fiasco on our hands, with the much more expensive PBs very close to the cheap iBooks performance-wise.

a 1GHz iBook is $1499. The next-fastest laptop Apple offers is the $2599 15" 1.25GHz PB... eek! Of course, the PB has a superdrive and better graphics, but $1100 is still a lot of money for only 250MHz more core speed.

Hopefully it all means the G5 will be in PowerBooks sooner than we all imagined.

cambro · Oct 22, 2003, 12:37 PM

Mhz is not the only thing that matters...as an Apple user you should know that!

Differences between iBook and PB:

1) Graphics chip set
2) Cache (this is huge)
3) Video out
4) SD as option
5) FW 800
6) ethernet speed

And, for the iBook 14" vs PB 15" comparison you mention:

1) Screen Size
2) iBook heavier

So, if Mhz is your whole world, then yeah, they're pretty close. But there is a lot to differentiate the two.

P.S. I hope you are right though! I want a G5 PB!!!!!

iboy · Oct 22, 2003, 01:17 PM

Yes, I think too that the PB G5 can't be so far anymore... this G4 iBooks ar a good sign!!!

the gap between the new iBook and the PB's are really small (Marketing-view) now

I think to explain the difference do the customers is very difficult... they won't buy the PB's anymore...

PoisonTooth · Oct 22, 2003, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by iboy:
Yes, I think too that the PB G5 can't be so far anymore... this G4 iBooks ar a good sign!!!

the gap between the new iBook and the PB's are really small (Marketing-view) now

I think to explain the difference do the customers is very difficult... they won't buy the PB's anymore...

I don't think the G4 iBooks herald anything even remotely similar to a G5 laptop. Apple simply ditched the underpowered G3 for a more competitive G4, so that it's consumer lineup wasn't such a vast underperformer in contrast with x86 laptops.

You're not gonna see a G5 in a laptop anytime soon. Even if you do, there's NO WAY I would touch rev A of that machine.

machem · Oct 22, 2003, 01:37 PM

I concur with PT. I wouldn't read too much into this. Six months is the soonest I'd expect to see G5s in PowerBooks, especially since the problems with the 15" AlBook is probably (hopefully) making them stop and re-assess some procedures a bit.

Of course, the speculation should focus on what, if any role any updated G3 will play in Apple's hardware.

I'd look for Dual G5 delivery problems to settle down by Thanksgiving (!?) and focus to return to higher-speed G5 desktops in the new year.

I think Apple is in a real nice place here --- All the machines, even eMacs have much more power and value than most of us need, and true power users and techno geeks (who like to think they need the power) are satisfied. Note, I'm not knocking people who buy dual G5s and use them for iPhoto and Safari --- more power to them! The fact that websites such as PC World have to publish totally spurious and skewed "benchmarks" (Word? Premiere? as benchmarks? Who are they kidding?), spreading FUD, and the emergence of iTunes for Win (and all the mainstream praise it seems to be generating), along with the air of discontent in the M$/XP world provides Apple with quite a bit of high ground.

Anyway, a bit off topic, sorry.

Esquare · Oct 22, 2003, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by mac freak:
Hopefully it all means the G5 will be in PowerBooks sooner than we all imagined.

Sigh...
http://forums.macrumors.com/archive/topic/39023-1.html

iboy · Oct 22, 2003, 02:08 PM

Yes, I read that too and I know also that there are a few problems with the G5 in Laptops... BUT I think they really have a problem now to explain a prospektive customer why NOT to buy an 12" iBook instead of the 12" Al !!!

gr�essli

yob

mac freak · Oct 22, 2003, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by Esquare:
Sigh...
http://forums.macrumors.com/archive/topic/39023-1.html

"By the end of next year" = end of 2004 at the absolute latest.
That could mean tomorrow

Be optimistic!

runejoha · Oct 22, 2003, 06:26 PM

PowerBook will probably be released sooner than we think. This is my arguments:

1. If they want to steal from the PC marked they have to compete with Intels new M-class processors. It will be more expensive to save money and develop it later than sooner and Steves 50% statement will be unrealistic. The "late next year" and the "50% of the laptop marked" is a contradiciton.

2. If he did say next year nobody would buy the G4, but the "end" will make people to think "1 year is to long to wait". He is not afraid to get critics from the existing mac users because the G5 will start a new era in the mac world.

3. The release of the G5 desktop will make Intel and AMD to release their processors earlier for sure, which Apple knows. "Late next year" will make everybody to relax: the customers will continue to buy the G4 and make the pc word to take it easier. The "problems" with the cooling down is a PR stunt. I bet a G5 is allready in the labs of Apple. They will release the G5 in the right time to get the 50% amount, which could be january to june.

4. The argument which is the strongest is that the golden crown (Powerbook) has the same processor as the economic version. The computerworld markeding has always been mostly focused on the processor name and speed ("Pentium" is probably the most used and know name in the computer hw world - it is not whithout reason that Intel choosed to spend a lot of money in the brand - it sells as hell)
Apple will not wait 1 year for the G5 for sure.

I could almost swear that it is released before june, maybe before. The sales of laptopps has been taken over completely in the pc-world, and this chance is something Apple never will miss. They have never been closer to **** Microsoft and the Pc world since early 1980's.

I am going to wait, G4 is going out of the marked very soon.

PS! When I bought my IPod i bought it 2 weeks before the new generation was released. Nobody knew it was coming then, not a word. Apple "fooled" me so they could sell the old ones in peace

The excuse for the "late next year" argument is "We fixed the cooling problem sooner than expected"

The G4 in the ibook would make everybody to think "the G5 is here very soon" but a statement like Steves' makes you buy an old computer.

Runejoha

Originally posted by mac freak:
"By the end of next year" = end of 2004 at the absolute latest.
That could mean tomorrow
Be optimistic!

dreamBweaver · Oct 22, 2003, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by runejoha:
PowerBook will probably be released sooner than we think. This is my arguments:

1. If they want to steal from the PC marked they have to compete with Intels new M-class processors. It will be more expensive to save money and develop it later than sooner and Steves 50% statement will be unrealistic. The "late next year" and the "50% of the laptop marked" is a contradiciton.

2. If he did say next year nobody would buy the G4, but the "end" will make people to think "1 year is to long to wait". He is not afraid to get critics from the existing mac users because the G5 will start a new era in the mac world.

3. The release of the G5 desktop will make Intel and AMD to release their processors earlier for sure, which Apple knows. "Late next year" will make everybody to relax: the customers will continue to buy the G4 and make the pc word to take it easier. The "problems" with the cooling down is a PR stunt. I bet a G5 is allready in the labs of Apple. They will release the G5 in the right time to get the 50% amount, which could be january to june.

4. The argument which is the strongest is that the golden crown (Powerbook) has the same processor as the economic version. The computerworld markeding has always been mostly focused on the processor name and speed ("Pentium" is probably the most used and know name in the computer hw world - it is not whithout reason that Intel choosed to spend a lot of money in the brand - it sells as hell)
Apple will not wait 1 year for the G5 for sure.

I could almost swear that it is released before june, maybe before. The sales of laptopps has been taken over completely in the pc-world, and this chance is something Apple never will miss. They have never been closer to **** Microsoft and the Pc world since early 1980's.

I am going to wait, G4 is going out of the marked very soon.

PS! When I bought my IPod i bought it 2 weeks before the new generation was released. Nobody knew it was coming then, not a word. Apple "fooled" me so they could sell the old ones in peace

The excuse for the "late next year" argument is "We fixed the cooling problem sooner than expected"

The G4 in the ibook would make everybody to think "the G5 is here very soon" but a statement like Steves' makes you buy an old computer.

Runejoha

Kudos to your predictions. I think you have a logical argument.
And btw, you should check the spelling of "exiting" in your quote.

Robertk2012 · Oct 22, 2003, 07:31 PM

just think if the g4 is in the ibook where will IBM's G3 be. hmmmmm think about that one. New subnotebook: remmeber I said it first.

mac freak · Oct 22, 2003, 09:48 PM

I was wondering the same thing. It's possible that Apple will just brand IBM's new G3's as G4's, or G4e's or something.

Lorinserbenz · Oct 23, 2003, 01:21 AM

Umm those of you that think Apple will put a G5 in a Powerbook within a few months, have you LOOKED at a G5 Powermac? The size difference from the prior G4 is astounding and the cooling system is very intricate.
I think a G5 notebook is more of a Q3 2004 item.
Yes it may come sooner and if so plan on on it being the size of a G3 Powerbook. There is NO way they are going to get a G5 into the existing Powerbook chasis. If they do.... chances are good it will double stovetop (HOT)...
Do not get me wrong... I want a G5 Powerbook so bad just so I can get the homo next door to me to shut up about how fast his Vaio is.
Heat is the major issue here, and putting a G5 in a Al enclosure is going to be VERY hot. I bet the first series of G5 Powerbooks go back to plastic.

Sandbaggins · Oct 23, 2003, 01:57 AM

Originally posted by runejoha:
PowerBook will probably be released sooner than we think. This is my arguments:

1. If they want to steal from the PC marked they have to compete with Intels new M-class processors. It will be more expensive to save money and develop it later than sooner and Steves 50% statement will be unrealistic. The "late next year" and the "50% of the laptop marked" is a contradiciton.

2. If he did say next year nobody would buy the G4, but the "end" will make people to think "1 year is to long to wait". He is not afraid to get critics from the existing mac users because the G5 will start a new era in the mac world.

3. The release of the G5 desktop will make Intel and AMD to release their processors earlier for sure, which Apple knows. "Late next year" will make everybody to relax: the customers will continue to buy the G4 and make the pc word to take it easier. The "problems" with the cooling down is a PR stunt. I bet a G5 is allready in the labs of Apple. They will release the G5 in the right time to get the 50% amount, which could be january to june.

4. The argument which is the strongest is that the golden crown (Powerbook) has the same processor as the economic version. The computerworld markeding has always been mostly focused on the processor name and speed ("Pentium" is probably the most used and know name in the computer hw world - it is not whithout reason that Intel choosed to spend a lot of money in the brand - it sells as hell)
Apple will not wait 1 year for the G5 for sure.

I could almost swear that it is released before june, maybe before. The sales of laptopps has been taken over completely in the pc-world, and this chance is something Apple never will miss. They have never been closer to **** Microsoft and the Pc world since early 1980's.

I am going to wait, G4 is going out of the marked very soon.

PS! When I bought my IPod i bought it 2 weeks before the new generation was released. Nobody knew it was coming then, not a word. Apple "fooled" me so they could sell the old ones in peace

The excuse for the "late next year" argument is "We fixed the cooling problem sooner than expected"

The G4 in the ibook would make everybody to think "the G5 is here very soon" but a statement like Steves' makes you buy an old computer.

Runejoha

Thats it... I'm placing my pre-order now. Anyone think I'll get my order upgraded to over-night delivery (hope they don't send my G5 PB via Airborne

)

shabbasuraj · Oct 23, 2003, 02:25 AM

as mentioned in other threads.. the main reason I am holding off for a RevC PB or a 5ivver PB is the fact that the upper model screen resolutions are completely inadequate and suffice to say year 2000 technology...

lates...

Lorinserbenz · Oct 23, 2003, 02:35 AM

OkOk... Send me a G5 Powerbook and I WILL accept White Spots on my screen

Esquare · Oct 23, 2003, 03:50 AM

Originally posted by Lorinserbenz:
OkOk... Send me a G5 Powerbook and I WILL accept White Spots on my screen

But can you also live with the fact it's 8 inches thick and weighs 20 pounds?

Esquare · Oct 23, 2003, 03:56 AM

Originally posted by runejoha:
PowerBook will probably be released sooner than we think. This is my arguments:

1. If they want to steal from the PC marked they have to compete with Intels new M-class processors. It will be more expensive to save money and develop it later than sooner and Steves 50% statement will be unrealistic. The "late next year" and the "50% of the laptop marked" is a contradiciton.

2. If he did say next year nobody would buy the G4, but the "end" will make people to think "1 year is to long to wait". He is not afraid to get critics from the existing mac users because the G5 will start a new era in the mac world.

3. The release of the G5 desktop will make Intel and AMD to release their processors earlier for sure, which Apple knows. "Late next year" will make everybody to relax: the customers will continue to buy the G4 and make the pc word to take it easier. The "problems" with the cooling down is a PR stunt. I bet a G5 is allready in the labs of Apple. They will release the G5 in the right time to get the 50% amount, which could be january to june.

4. The argument which is the strongest is that the golden crown (Powerbook) has the same processor as the economic version. The computerworld markeding has always been mostly focused on the processor name and speed ("Pentium" is probably the most used and know name in the computer hw world - it is not whithout reason that Intel choosed to spend a lot of money in the brand - it sells as hell)
Apple will not wait 1 year for the G5 for sure.

I could almost swear that it is released before june, maybe before. The sales of laptopps has been taken over completely in the pc-world, and this chance is something Apple never will miss. They have never been closer to **** Microsoft and the Pc world since early 1980's.

I am going to wait, G4 is going out of the marked very soon.

PS! When I bought my IPod i bought it 2 weeks before the new generation was released. Nobody knew it was coming then, not a word. Apple "fooled" me so they could sell the old ones in peace

The excuse for the "late next year" argument is "We fixed the cooling problem sooner than expected"

The G4 in the ibook would make everybody to think "the G5 is here very soon" but a statement like Steves' makes you buy an old computer.

Runejoha

Nice analysis. Utter crap, but nice. You forgot to mention the tealeafs, though.

Fact is that iBook and Powerbook have shared the same chip before (G3), and for quite some time at that. So that leaves your 'strongest argument' nowhere.

buddy1065 · Oct 23, 2003, 06:26 AM

I am so exited.

The Placid Casual · Oct 23, 2003, 06:43 AM

My God!! It's Started Already!!...

I am seriously considering shooting myself in the foot or something just to duck out of the months up until MWSF if things have started so soon...

First off, for the record: I very, very, very much doubt we will see a G5 Powerbook *soon* for a few reasons;

The current machines are not yet shipping in numbers. Can you see Apple releasing a new machine only 2 months after 'back orders' of the current model have been filled? Um, No.

So what if the iBook and PB have the same chip? The iBook and Powerbook had the same chip for 12+ months in the pre Ti days. It is such a non issue. There are so many other features that differentiate the ranges it is not even funny...

I also doubt that there has been enough R&D time for Apple to sort out the logistics of a G5 PB. I cite the 18 month wait from the G4 desktops to the G4 Powerbooks... The G5 will be even more of a challenge.

R&D costs. We have just had a whole redesigned range of AluBoooks. Are they really only going to keep them for 6-12 months? Um no. It makes no economic sense. They have to stay in production long enough to get a return to either; cover the R&D, or make a small profit. That's business.

My guess is the end of 2004 at the EARLIEST.

It makes absolutely no sense any other way.

Peace,

Marc

Lorinserbenz · Oct 23, 2003, 07:10 AM

Originally posted by Esquare:
But can you also live with the fact it's 8 inches thick and weighs 20 pounds?

Hey fat girls need love too!

Simon · Oct 23, 2003, 08:37 AM

This thread is so full of sh!t it's funny.

How long did the iMac have the same G3 the PowerMac did? How long did both PowerBooks and iBooks have a G3? How long did PowerMacs and iMacs have the same G4?

Of course the PowerBooks will go away from the G4 sometime. But, anybody who believes Steve is trying to hint at an early PowerBook G5 switch just because of this new iBook must be really desperate...

runejoha · Oct 23, 2003, 02:13 PM

It is funny to see how unrealistic many of you macfanatics are.

I am not desperated (I can wait for a long time with my compaq Evo, the "best" laptop on the marked when i bought it - and it will for a long time be ok for pretty advanced kind of work), but he G5 will be released when the marked is right for sure, this can be any time next year.

The G5 will get a lot of attention and make Apples sales very good IF it comes before the big boss releases something better for laptops(read Intel).

To judge these arguments as **** only show that few people really can see the big picture. Maybe mine is not the correct ones, but at least I can tell that Apple is not telling the whole truth because of the competitors and the marked.

Where the money talks there are no limitations in techs.

Another motivation for Apple is the fact that PCs always have been on the top for many things. This time they can do something about this.

You are free to disagree, but you judge without to much arguments and call others for "crappy" and "stupid". Maybe this is the level of discussion you have in USA, I am used to a cultivated Europe.

"wanted dead or alive, bless USA and crush the pure evil over the seas"

Regards
Runejoha

Originally posted by Simon:

This thread is so full of sh!t it's funny.

How long did the iMac have the same G3 the PowerMac did? How long did both PowerBooks and iBooks have a G3? How long did PowerMacs and iMacs have the same G4?

Of course the PowerBooks will go away from the G4 sometime. But, anybody who believes Steve is trying to hint at an early PowerBook G5 switch just because of this new iBook must be really desperate...

zubro · Oct 23, 2003, 04:16 PM

For the ones who look at a one year old technology (the "new" G5 Desktop) It is of course hard to imagine a G5 in a PB-AL! ;o)

Don t you think that they had time to think how to put it in a PB?...

guigo · Oct 23, 2003, 04:36 PM

Hi,

I'm a macfanatic from brazil

Here we don't have the new PB's yet. The first G5 desktops will be in stores soon.

If there's a G5 PB? Of Course. There's a lot of guys in Apple right now thinking abou that.

When? Well, if we wait to buy the most new super high xtra, anyone will buy anything ever.

What we can do? Buy the best PB we can to satisfy our needs. If you want a heavy machine, PB G4 1,25, if you need one just to surf and store mp3's, ibook G4 is enough.

When the PB G5 comes, sell yours (I think the PB G4 market will not end when the G5 comes), add some dollars, buy a new one and be happy again.

Anyone is stupid here, just fanatic. Besides, talk about rumors is sooooo much fun than talk about something that you can find in a apple store :-)

regards

Guigo

P.S. sorry about any grammar error.

dennis88 · Oct 23, 2003, 04:54 PM

Is there a big difference between g5 and g4?
Would a 1,25 ghz g5 be much faster tahn a 1,25ghz g4?

Thanks!

elvis2000 · Oct 23, 2003, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by iboy:
Yes, I think too that the PB G5 can't be so far anymore... this G4 iBooks ar a good sign!!!

the gap between the new iBook and the PB's are really small (Marketing-view) now

I think to explain the difference do the customers is very difficult... they won't buy the PB's anymore...

Hruumm??

Lets compare the bottom ends of each line - where a $500 price difference exists:

1) 25% mhz boost (200mhz) and twice the L2 cache: worth $300?
2) Bluetooth: $50
3) 10GB of Harddrive space: $25

So $125 for higher build quality, better keyboard, AL enclosure, and DVI out (dual display). Plus, you won't look like a tool in public.

3.1416 · Oct 23, 2003, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by elvis2000:
So $125 for higher build quality, better keyboard, AL enclosure, and DVI out (dual display). Plus, you won't look like a tool in public.

Although you also "get" a substantially worse graphics chipset.

pb_soon · Oct 23, 2003, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by iboy:
Yes, I think too that the PB G5 can't be so far anymore... this G4 iBooks ar a good sign!!!

the gap between the new iBook and the PB's are really small (Marketing-view) now

I think to explain the difference do the customers is very difficult... they won't buy the PB's anymore...

Coming from the PC world (PB tomorrow

), you actually see this type of thing quite commonly. Just look at say IBM's Thinkpad range - you can get a cheap G or R series with Pentium 4 processors and then step up to more expensive R, T and X series thinkpads which on paper doesn't appear to have that much difference, but price-wise there may be up to a couple of thousand dollars (in $AUS

).

nobitacu · Oct 23, 2003, 07:53 PM

Well, like others, I also don't think we will see the day of Powebook G5s anytime soon. Heat is a huge issue they have to address. I think I have read somewhere that IBM is already working on it, and already have a prototype, but it is no where near completion. I would say we won't even hear about it until maybe March of next year. Which means... no shipment for it until maybe June to Aug. So, till than, I'll be happy with my 17inch G4. I'm going to try to only upgrade my Powerbook only once every 2 years or so. Unless of course Apple comes out with something so good that I just have to upgrade.

Ming

diamondsw · Oct 23, 2003, 10:43 PM

Originally posted by runejoha:
PowerBook will probably be released sooner than we think. This is my arguments:

1. If they want to steal from the PC marked they have to compete with Intels new M-class processors. It will be more expensive to save money and develop it later than sooner and Steves 50% statement will be unrealistic. The "late next year" and the "50% of the laptop marked" is a contradiciton.

2. If he did say next year nobody would buy the G4, but the "end" will make people to think "1 year is to long to wait". He is not afraid to get critics from the existing mac users because the G5 will start a new era in the mac world.

3. The release of the G5 desktop will make Intel and AMD to release their processors earlier for sure, which Apple knows. "Late next year" will make everybody to relax: the customers will continue to buy the G4 and make the pc word to take it easier. The "problems" with the cooling down is a PR stunt. I bet a G5 is allready in the labs of Apple. They will release the G5 in the right time to get the 50% amount, which could be january to june.

4. The argument which is the strongest is that the golden crown (Powerbook) has the same processor as the economic version. The computerworld markeding has always been mostly focused on the processor name and speed ("Pentium" is probably the most used and know name in the computer hw world - it is not whithout reason that Intel choosed to spend a lot of money in the brand - it sells as hell)
Apple will not wait 1 year for the G5 for sure.

I could almost swear that it is released before june, maybe before. The sales of laptopps has been taken over completely in the pc-world, and this chance is something Apple never will miss. They have never been closer to **** Microsoft and the Pc world since early 1980's.

I am going to wait, G4 is going out of the marked very soon.

PS! When I bought my IPod i bought it 2 weeks before the new generation was released. Nobody knew it was coming then, not a word. Apple "fooled" me so they could sell the old ones in peace

The excuse for the "late next year" argument is "We fixed the cooling problem sooner than expected"

The G4 in the ibook would make everybody to think "the G5 is here very soon" but a statement like Steves' makes you buy an old computer.

Runejoha

What you are essentially saying is that the needs of marketing will overcome the technical problems of putting a G5 in a laptop - namely, power requirements and heat dissapation. Face it - until the G5 enters its next revision with a low-power version it will not be in a laptop, no matter how much Apple would like it to.

djsteele · Oct 23, 2003, 10:47 PM

I just wanted to point out that even if, by some miracle, Apple could release a G5 PB tomorrow, would you really want to pay the $4500 it would cost? I have no doubt that Apple has been successful in R&D with a G5 PB, but you can't realistically expect a "reasonably" priced version by the end of the year. Especially given the recent update to the PB line.

For all of you optimists, I know you like to think the glass is half full, but in this case you need to finish what's in that glass before you poor another.

I'm personally, much more pessimistic and believe you shouldn't even have a glass. They are dangerous and can break when dropped.

MrK · Oct 23, 2003, 11:29 PM

I would love some of whatever you are smoking if you really, truly believe there will be a Powerbook G5 in the next 6 months.

I need a fix...

bobette · 11:41 PM

Hey you charismatic "the coming of the G5 is near, alleluia, etc" freaks...

Give it a rest.

1) If you really think Apple would flush out all the investment of designing a new model (especially the Al15) without trying to milk it to the max and start from scratch on another architecture, you guys have no sense of profit making whatsoever. Thank god you don't own the company... You'd crash and burn on R&D only!

2) if what you really want is a George Foreman Grilled Cheese sandwich maker with a 3 minute power supply that'll burn your test!cles to a crisp when sitting on your lap, hey, you're asking for it!

3) If you think the iBooks are similar to the Albooks, then you don't know what the hell you're talking about. This means all you probably really need IS an ibook to surf and sync your ipod, not a professional G5 powerhouse to do serious work on. Call that overkill needs for naive-stricken disciples with money to spare.

Give it a rest and enjoy what's there, will ya?

As I said somewhere else, knowing how slow and meticulous Apple is in its R&D, I'd say a redesigned from the bottom G5 Powerbook would be announced not before MWSF 2005, and even then...

If they rush things and (hypothetically) come out with crap, you'll be the first ones to blow our ears off with your bloody whining.

OsakaBill · Oct 24, 2003, 12:02 AM

For those worried about cooling a G5 based laptop, anyone remember the article which talked about cooling CPUs with liquid?

Hmmmm....

bobette · Oct 24, 2003, 12:07 AM

Originally posted by OsakaBill:
For those worried about cooling a G5 based laptop, anyone remember the article which talked about cooling CPUs with liquid?

Hmmmm....

Show us a working prototype and I'll believe. I'm sure they're working hard at it, but it's far from the assembly line.

Petrie · Oct 24, 2003, 12:30 AM

Instead of focusing on the processor(s), why not focus on the board's architecture? Open up that frontside bus and now we're talking something that could be accomplished soon and using existing G4 chips.

riverfreak · Oct 24, 2003, 01:32 AM

Everyone who is commenting on how large the G5 is (how much cooling it requires) and uses that observation to say "no way, late 2004" for the G5 powerbook:

If the G5 powerbook is going to come out in late 2004, then you can bet that there are already prototpyes kicking around.

riverfreak · Oct 24, 2003, 01:36 AM

Originally posted by bobette:

2) if what you really want is a George Foreman Grilled Cheese sandwich maker with a 3 minute power supply that'll burn your test!cles to a crisp when sitting on your lap, hey, you're asking for it!

Does such a thing exist? I mean, with regards to the grilled cheese part, not the burned testicles. I already have a Ti

bobette · Oct 24, 2003, 01:43 AM

Originally posted by riverfreak:
Does such a thing exist? I mean, with regards to the grilled cheese part, not the burned testicles. I already have a Ti

With a nice keyboard motif on one side of the grilled cheese and white blotches on the other!

sunfood · Oct 24, 2003, 05:21 AM

yes, the new 15" is the latest PB and of course it is prepared for the G5. Apple has known about the G5 for far longer time than any of us and are very aware of how to plan their product pipeline.

Knowing about the latest rumors the last few months it is possible, but maybe not likely that Apple will launch a new G5 version of the PB series as soon as in January next year.

The upgrade of the iBook family is a clear indication.

On the other hand the iBooks really needed an upgrade since sales have dropped dramatically lately.

People who are thinking of getting a new Apple computer are very excited about having the opportunity to get a G5 version PB. That includes me. I will get a new PB but I will wait until after January to see if the G5 arrives. If not I will get the 15" PB G4.

The guys at Apple know what they are doing and they also want to have G5 Power Books.

Send them you thoughts and support and let them know you want a G5 PB and it might make things happen faster!

elvis2000 · Oct 24, 2003, 07:19 AM

Originally posted by 3.1416:
Although you also "get" a substantially worse graphics chipset.

Far as I remember from my PC days, the Geforce Go 5200 is comparable to a Radeon 9200.

jw

bobette · Oct 24, 2003, 09:07 AM

Originally posted by sunfood:
yes, the new 15" is the latest PB and of course it is prepared for the G5.

WTF you talking about? They redesigned the G5 Tower's architecture from scratch, you think they're just going to switch processors in the existing Albook architecture/enclosure? PRos'll never accept it.

Apple has known about the G5 for far longer time than any of us and are very aware of how to plan their product pipeline.

[/B]

Well, duuh....

asxless · Oct 24, 2003, 10:20 AM

I would much rather see Apple build a Dual G4 PowerBook than a G5 PowerBook. Dual CPUs provide a lot more flexibility for performance vs battery life. For example, you could optionally set it to always use both CPUs when on Power Adapter and only one CPU while on Battery Power. Space may be a problem but heat would not need to be. You can shut down the 2nd CPU to reduce heat or conserve batteries or both.

FWIW I've been using PowerBooks as my primary Mac for over a decade. During that time I can only remember a few times when I didn't have my PB set for reduced performance while on Battery Power and maximum performance while on Power Adapter.

-- asxless in iLand

Scooterboy · Oct 24, 2003, 02:07 PM

Have any of you read IBM's technical documents on the PPC 970? Or the ArsTechnical review? If you had, then you would know that power output (heat) of the PPC 970 (G5) is very similar to G4, at similar CPU clock speeds. The PPC 970 was designed with portable computers in mind. And with IBM moving the 970 from a 130 to a 90 nanometer process it will be faster and even more perfectly suited for portables.
The desktop PowerMac G5 is an integrated system designed from the ground up to address such issues as accomodating dual 2 GHz and later dual 3 GHz G5's, up to 8 GB RAM, state-of-the art, hot video cards and PCI boards, and accessories within a shell that is cooled quietly with very slow turning fans.
Apple might be limited to using a 1.2 GHz or 1.6 GHz G5 in a PowerBook because of heat considerations. If Motorola had a 2 GHz G4 it probably would be too hot to put into a PowerBook.
The G4 is beginning to lose its advantages because Motorola saw no need for it to ever sit on more than a 167 MHz bus. It's a great processor limited by really poor bus speed (even IBM's G3 can sit on a 200 MHz bus).
When iBooks and PowerBooks were G3, iBooks were 66 MHz bus and PowerBooks were 100 MHz bus. iBooks had far more limited abilities compared to PowerBooks than they do now.
Now iBooks and PowerBooks are G4. iBook bus is 133 MHz, so is 12" PowerBook, and the 15" and 17" are only 167 MHz bus. A PowerBook G5 1.6 GHz would feature an 800 MHz Front Side Bus. This alone helps the G5 to be competitive with top performing x86 chips from Intel and AMD.

Yes, the PowerBook has more features, but there isn't a whole lot more you can do on a PowerBook that you can't do almost as quickly and painlessly on an iBook. This wasn't the case when they were both on G3.
Yes, Apple "cripples" the iBooks but not so much this time. Bus speeds are good. Monitor spanning hacks will come. The Radeon 9200 in the iBooks is a better Graphics chip than the nVidia in the 12" PowerBook, and isn't far behind the Radeon 9600 in the top range, over $2,000 PowerBooks. The iBooks are an incredible value. In the G5 world things have changed, perception-wise.
G5=Pro
G4=Consumer

bobette · 02:32 PM

Good points. This thread is getting interesting.

Originally posted by Scooterboy:

Apple might be limited to using a 1.2 GHz or 1.6 GHz G5 in a PowerBook because of heat considerations. If Motorola had a 2 GHz G4 it probably would be too hot to put into a PowerBook.

I believe, as far as marketing value is concerned (and market share), the Powerbook would then still fall under the MHz (now GHz) myth category.

For us Apple nutz, we see and understand the difference between G4 and G5. But for all the rest out there (peecee peeps), they don't see a diff between G4, G5 or G8, they want to see Ghz! And Apple is not trying to convince us to buy their stuff... They're trying to convince them! The higher the merrier... And just another 1.25 GHz G-whatever just wouldn't cut it. Like the Powermac G5, they need to build the big Kahuna, the mother of all laptops, the George Foreman Genital Roaster Powerhouse. Giant steps instead of, well, semi-tiny ones...

It's all marketing...

redJag · Oct 24, 2003, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by bobette:
Show us a working prototype and I'll believe. I'm sure they're working hard at it, but it's far from the assembly line.

They already have water cooling.. This is not a new idea by far! Unless you meant a G5 laptop prototype. There is no way that is happening

In my opinion, at MacWorld SanFrancisco, new Powerbooks will be announced. The high end will be pushing (very hard) 2Ghz, because they are supposed to be close behind their desktop counterparts. They will be using either the new MotoG4s or the new IBM G3s (but rebranded as G4s of course). Hopefully the screen resolution will get a bump, otherwise I'm not buying one!

RooneyX · Oct 24, 2003, 02:34 PM

I tried to cool a laptop with liquid once.

bobette · Oct 24, 2003, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by redJag:
Unless you meant a G5 laptop prototype. There is no way that is happening

That's what I meant!

mac freak · Oct 24, 2003, 06:24 PM

Hey, MacNN front page exposure for my thread

Look at the views for this thread compared to all the other threads in the PowerBook forum