[Athens]

First starving to death a brain dead woman now arresting a 5 year old girl. I saw the story on CNN today, the Cops actually wanted to keep the girl over night and charge her with assult, thank god prosicuters said no way in hell and send her home. Whats wrong with this state!

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=593677

Side note cameras cought most of it on tape, basically she was just being a bad normal 5 year old.

[Link]

You couldn't get me to move to florida if you paid me.. this **** is insanity.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Link

You couldn't get me to move to florida if you paid me.. this **** is insanity.

One of the reasons you could never get me to move to the US no matter how good the pay was.

[MindFad]

I do not.

[MilkmanDan]

Blah....

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by Link

You couldn't get me to move to florida if you paid me.. this **** is insanity.

Yes, we got together as a state and made this decision.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by MindFad

I do not.

Sure ya do, Floor'duh, just admit it! The "five year old girl" in this story is in reality none other than you, juuust admit it!


No, seriously, this is f*cked up. The girl is five years old. When five-year-olds freak out like that, you pick them up off the ground and tell them off. If they hit you, you hold their hands so they can't hit you. You can even lock her in her room (or, since this is a school, some other room where she can't destroy anything) till she's calmed down. You do not call the friggin' police and have them arrest her! Kindergarten teachers are supposed to be able to handle these things - or are they so afraid of assault or sexual abuse lawsuits that they don't even dare touch the kids or tell them off anymore?

[Mastrap]

"She's never going back to that school," Akins said. "They set my baby up."

Sorry, but

"She's going up the river, lady."

[TETENAL]

When kindergarten teachers have to call the police to have a 5 year old girl arrested, they have chosen the wrong job.

[effgee]

"... Minutes later, the 40-pound girl was in the back of a police cruiser, under arrest for battery. Her hands were bound with plastic ties, her ankles in handcuffs. ..."

Praise the Lord that she lives in a state where no one's afraid to dish out appropriate punishment ... "Flick the switch, baby - the brat kicked a teacher in the shin" ... **bzzzzzzzt**

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by Ois�n

.....are they so afraid of assault or sexual abuse lawsuits that they don't even dare touch the kids or tell them off anymore?

I think this is the reason.

Unbelievable. Handcuff a 5 year old.....

[Athens]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

I think this is the reason.

Unbelievable. Handcuff a 5 year old.....

I didn't even think of that would explain a lot but explain why the cops wanted to keep her in lockup over night and charger her, which isnt in that article, but was on CNN thats just totally up for the cops to even consider that!!! Good thing everything was cought on camera

[powerbook867]

A 5-year-old girl was arrested, cuffed and put in back of a police cruiser after an outburst at school where she threw books and boxes, kicked a teacher in the shins, smashed a candy dish, hit an assistant principal in the stomach and drew on the walls.


If the child was really being violent, then maybe calling the police was justified. (Most schools have security though, don't they??) The action the cops took seems excessive. I get tired of seeing out of control kids. Everyone seems afraid to discipline and next thing you know, you have a child running a household because the parents can't/won't say no or take control of the child. I'm not advocating physical discipline, but this kid didn't start randomly punching and kicking. There is probably a history of this at home...

I agree with this..

Originally Posted by Ois�n
.....are they so afraid of assault or sexual abuse lawsuits that they don't even dare touch the kids or tell them off anymore?

[chris v]

Originally Posted by MindFad

I do not.

You are but one small icon creator is a sea of Goombahs. We don't hold you accountable. Would that the rest of your state could aspire to your greatness, though...

[pooka]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

I think this is the reason.

Unbelievable. Handcuff a 5 year old.....

My sister is a teacher in Florida. And yes, this is the reason.

My sister learned quite a few tricks over the years when it comes to subduing out of control children. There were several occasions where I couldn't remember anything before waking up in the hospital. She would love nothing more to employ these techniques on the job. Unfortunately, school board policy prevents her from doing so. Everyone is terrified of attorneys.

And they are breeding at an exponential rate..
I fear for the future.

[ghporter]

Any of you folks parents? I am.

For a child to go on a rampage like that for such a trivial thing says a lot about how she has been raised. In other words, her parents have not done anything but given her what she wants whenever she wants it. Her parents are the ones that should go to jail, and the little girl should get a LOT of very in-depth counselling.

This was not a tantrum. Those are almost always localized and focused on getting the child attention. Little kids stand and scream OR they run around and knock stuff over. To go as far overboard as this child did shows that she does that everywhere-particularly at home. It demonstrates that she has had absolutely no limits placed on her behavior. Her parents are either too wrapped up in themselves to bother proprely raising a child, or too weak to even try correcting her when she was a toddler. Now she's in a public setting, and her lack of training is showing very badly. I'll be surprised if the state doesn't at least consider taking her away from her parents, and that would probably be a good thing for her.

[Oisín]

Although a better solution would be to sic Nanny 911 on the family...

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by ghporter

Any of you folks parents? I am.

For a child to go on a rampage like that for such a trivial thing says a lot about how she has been raised.

Professional kindergarten teachers should know how to deal with difficult children. This is their job, not the job of the police. It's the kindergarten teachers that failed miserably here.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Professional kindergarten teachers should know how to deal with difficult children. This is their job, not the job of the police. It's the kindergarten teachers that failed miserably here.

In this particular instance, yes. In the broader view of things, assuming Glenn's 'analysis' of the child's upbringing is fundamentally correct, the parents are the true culprits.

[Cody Dawg]

I saw the same story.

I, the bleeding-heart-semi liberal-cloaked-as-conservative was outraged, while my true blue conservative husband said, "If my kid acted like that and the police came and got him because of the way he was acting I'd think he probably deserved having the cops arrest him."

Florida is out of control in a lot of ways, yes.

I remember about a month ago they tasered a child, also, to get him "under control."

This is a state where they will put your 12-year old in prison for life, also.

[Cody Dawg]

Here's a link to the tasering of a 6-year old kid.

Seriously, maybe somebody has some ideas as to why children are so mental nowadays?

Sugar? Bad parenting? Lack of discipline? No parenting because of two working parents?

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Bad parenting? Lack of discipline? No parenting because of two working parents?

Three good reasons. And then there's the fact that kids have always been this mental. Nowadays, people are just too scared to do something proper about it, because we have all these great laws that prevent parents from spanking their child if the child is acting like a lunatic.

Don't get me wrong, now: There need to be laws to protect children against physical (and mental) abuse at the hands of their parents, but in most cases, the laws are far too exaggerated. Just as in any other species, humans have been disciplining children through corporal means for millennia, and it's never given us quite that many problems. Grabbing a firm hold of your tantrum-throwing kid, or locking him in his room, or sending him to bed with no dinner, or giving him a spanking is not the end of the world. Nonetheless, doing any one of those things is ground for imprisonment (here at least). Ridiculous.

[effgee]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

... Here's a link to the tasering of a 6-year old kid. Seriously, maybe somebody has some ideas as to why children are so mental nowadays? Sugar? Bad parenting? Lack of discipline? No parenting because of two working parents?

Love the last sentence of your post - but you better be very, very careful now.

Because if you continue that thought you might just find yourself pondering truly perverse things like "two years of maternal leave" *, "affordable (and good) child care", "higher minimum wages" so one parent can stay at home, etc., etc. in no time. And before you even realize it **BAM** you're up to the wazoo in enemy (= liberal Euro-trash) territory.**

After all - what any good conservative wants is the government of his/her back - correct?

Until, that is, the (government-paid) teacher has to call the (government-paid) police to arrest your child to get him/her to stop going postal on the world. Best solution - toss the kid in a (government-paid) prison, throw away they key and be done with it.




* - Or even "paternal leave" but that would of course be the epitome of "unnatural". Ewwww.
** - In the unlikely event of this happening to you, make sure you immediately call your favorite (conservative) congress man, uhm ... no "-person" immediately. He/she will know what to do. If you can't get him/her on the phone - go to church, that'll do it.

[Cody Dawg]

Oisin: You said EXACTLY what my husband said. EXACTLY. He said that children nowadays have no discipline either because parents simply do not provide it...or are afraid to.

The truth is that this little girl had behavior that was either harmful or potentially harmful not only to herself but to other children in the classroom.

Did they need to come and remove her? Absolutely.

Now, this is the thing: If you've got an out-of-control child you almost need to handcuff that child because what if she beat herself to a pulp on the way to the police station? Scratched herself? Smashed her head on the inside of the car? Seriously injured herself.

Now maybe the police will get sued and the next kid that comes along and does the same thing will get away with it - and will endanger everyone else. Why? Because when they call the parents - who were not available in this instance - they will not be able to come and get their kid and if the cops are called they will refuse to do anything for fear of being villified and/or sued.

So the school system is endangered, normal children are endangered, and for what? Because of one kid that is a brat and/or has mental problems.

Remember the kid that got caned in Singapore for graffitti? Well, that was probably a good thing, unfortunately.

American kids have a serious lack of values and discipline. We have to work VERY hard in our household to instill values and morals. I had a full-time job that I loved and I ended up putting my career on hold in order to be the parent that is at home to reinforce parenting and to be a support system for their school and extracurricular endeavors.

Parenting is hard work and parenting starts at home.

Effgee: You're right about that. But, guess what? I do freelance work from home and we live on a budget. That's right - one thing most Americans do not have unless lack of finances forces them to - LIVING ON A BUDGET. We're conservative. We don't travel here, there, all over the place on fancy vacations, we are careful with funds, and we live on a budget in order to have one parent at home.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Did they need to come and remove her? Absolutely.

Let me rephrase that:

Did she need to be removed (ie. taken away from the other kids, put somewhere where she couldn't break things and, preferably, do no harm to herself)? Absolutely.

Did the police have to come and remove her? Absolutely not. These are the kinds of situations kindergarten teachers are supposed to be trained and armed (not literally) to handle.

When I was in kindergarten, I remember there was a small, completely empty room with a lock on it where you would get thrown in if you were really out of line (like, badly!), and then you'd be left in there for about 20 minutes or so and they'd come see if you'd calmed down enough to be let back out with the other kids. It worked nearly every single time they had to use it. But they can't do that now, 'cause there are laws against them doing pretty much anything to the children. They're not even allowed to grab the kid off of another kid when they get into fights - they can only tell them verbally to stop it and leave each other alone. One of the few times I'm not ambivalent, but downright glad that the law isn't being followed properly.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Now, this is the thing: If you've got an out-of-control child you almost need to handcuff that child because what if she beat herself to a pulp on the way to the police station? Scratched herself? Smashed her head on the inside of the car? Seriously injured herself.

If she did any of those things (except perhaps scratching herself), that would be a good sign that she had some mental issues, in which case she shouldn't be in a normal kindergarten to begin with; she should then have been in a place that had specially trained teachers who knew how to handle these altogether different problems properly.

[Cody Dawg]

I taught in secondary school briefly and a few of my friends teach.

Do you know that teachers in public schools are not allowed to touch a child AT ALL?

That's right. You're not to touch the children, period.

That is why admin is called into situations like this. Not even admin is supposed to touch the children. The parents or authorities must come. It's sad but true.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Do you know that teachers in public schools are not allowed to touch a child AT ALL?

That's silly. I have never heard of anything like that.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

I taught in secondary school briefly and a few of my friends teach.

Do you know that teachers in public schools are not allowed to touch a child AT ALL?

Yes, I know, that's the insanity of these laws.

[ManOfSteal]

I'm really looking forward to my week long vacation in Orlando, FL in June...all this excitement and drama has me hot & bothered.

[Cody Dawg]

Let us know if you get arrested, okay?



Orlando will be a lot of fun for you. So many places to see and things to do. Epcot, Universal Studios, Pleasure Island, Wet 'n Wild water park (a blast), the Disney zoo, of course there's Disney World, and if you like Japanese food go to a restaurant called Rangetsu. It's really great. If you drive an hour west you can also go to Busch Gardens in Tampa - a real blast.

Florida may be screwed up as far as politics and laws go, but we have SO much to do here...Orlando and theme parks...South Beach...The Keys for snorkeling, diving, and boating...cruises...beaches (with warm water unlike in California)...and so much more.

I love it here.

Here's the beach by our house - click on it twice to enlarge it:

http://evsjupiter.netfirms.com/main.htm

[wdlove]

It still sounds as though this 5 year old has major issues that need to be dealt with. A very sad situation.

[Mafia]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Seriously, maybe somebody has some ideas as to why children are so mental nowadays?

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Bad parenting

you answered your own question.

maybe the mom should be less concerned about the school's actions and more concerned on why her daughter started freaking out and hitting everyone over some jelly beans.

[historylme]

The video made the international news. It was weird to see this tiny girl punching this 300 pound woman, who would only back away from the child with her hands blocking the punches.

Seeing her get arrested was disturbing. The parents of the girl must be in a whirl wind of news and more media.

[rozwado1]

Originally Posted by ghporter

Any of you folks parents? I am.

For a child to go on a rampage like that for such a trivial thing says a lot about how she has been raised. In other words, her parents have not done anything but given her what she wants whenever she wants it. Her parents are the ones that should go to jail, and the little girl should get a LOT of very in-depth counselling.

Give her 11 years and she'll be driving an M3.

[Cody Dawg]

Prolly true!

[Mac Write]

Originally Posted by Athens

One of the reasons you could never get me to move to the US no matter how good the pay was.

1,000,000,000% agree. You could offer me $1M/hr and I would not move there. To dangerious and pathetic people.

Vancouver is allot better (too hot today though)

[Cody Dawg]

For real.

Someone says, "I'm going to pay you $1 BILLION dollars a year and you wouldn't move here?

I find that very hard to believe.

Yes, Vancouver is awesome (love it there - especially the restaurants) but not good enough to pass up a billion dollars - especially U.S. currency which is worth more than Canadian...for a little while, anyway.

[Mac Write]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

For real.

Someone says, "I'm going to pay you $1 BILLION dollars a year and you wouldn't move here?

I find that very hard to believe.

Yes, Vancouver is awesome (love it there - especially the restaurants) but not good enough to pass up a billion dollars - especially U.S. currency which is worth more than Canadian...for a little while, anyway.

Yes I would turn it down. a Shorter life is not worth 500 Trillion.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

Yes I would turn it down. a Shorter life is not worth 500 Trillion.

You could get hit by a car tomorrow in Vancouver.

You could live to be a hundred in the US.

You have no way of knowing whether or not your life would be shorter if you moved to the US than if you stay in Vancouver. But if someone paid you a billion Dollars per hour from the point you moved to the US, you'd be almost entirely certain to die (whenever you die) the richest person on this planet.

I would personally be willing to sacrifice any possible but unknown extra length of life for that.

[pooka]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

...pathetic people.

your mama.

[ghporter]

Cody, what you say about kids lack of discipline, behavior problems, and all the rest is becoming truer and truer, but it is because PARENTS REFUSE TO BE PARENTS. You have to be unpopular from time to time when the kid pushes the limits-which they WILL do, it's part of the developmental process. If you do not set limits, or don't enforce them, the kid will push any limits he or she finds, which includes social and societal limits-like trying to beat up the teacher.

Of course, the wonderful parents are the reason that teachers can't touch students; they'll get their butts sued off, even if the kid is being a danger to the teacher and the other students. Nevermind that if this is the case the parents will lose, the suit is so much trouble that your life is effectively ruined for a long, long time.

As for "not moving to the U.S. for any money," I think you are naive and underinformed. What is particularly more dangerous in the U.S. than in Canada? Particularly what is so awful and dangerous in the States that a huge paycheck couldn't smooth your way here? I'm really curious. And yes I HAVE been to Canada-southern Ontario to be specific.

[Garage81]

Originally Posted by wallinbl

Yes, we got together as a state and made this decision.

[Sosa]

I'm not sure handcuffing this kid was out of hand. What she really needed was worse, a beating! Obviously regular discipline was insufficient for her. These police officers are not allowed to beat her, and I'm sure attempts to intimidate her failed. They are not paid to have to withstand some 5 year old trying to kick or beat them! In the same situation, if intimidation fails and I can't hit her, I would have tied her up myself.

[nredman]

Originally Posted by ManOfSteal

I'm really looking forward to my week long vacation in Orlando, FL in June...all this excitement and drama has me hot & bothered.

New Hotbotheredness?

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Sosa

I'm not sure handcuffing this kid was out of hand. What she really needed was worse, a beating! Obviously regular discipline was insufficient for her. These police officers are not allowed to beat her, and I'm sure attempts to intimidate her failed. They are not paid to have to withstand some 5 year old trying to kick or beat them! In the same situation, if intimidation fails and I can't hit her, I would have tied her up myself.

NOT a beating. Kids do NOT need to be struck in such a way as to injure them. Not only is it wrong to intentionally hurt someone that small, it's not necessary. A whack across the butt when their attention is needed-as in they're doing something inappropriate and need a nudge to "rethink their position"-is more than adequate. But it must be part of an overall strategy to direct the kid toward acceptable socialization. This is far from a minor syntactical difference: "beating" is brutality, and the parent MUST understand that there is no place for brutality in child raising.

This incident should have gotten the girl a couple of open-hand whacks across the butt, followed by loss of ALL priveledges (TV, movies, ANY entertainment of ANY kind), extra chores (YES, 5-year-olds can and should do chores) for a long time. Once she has been taught what was wrong about what she did (obviously she didn't know yet), she should formally appologize to everyone affected by her actions-the WHOLE CLASS, the teacher, and even the police officers.

Humiliating? You BET! THAT IS THE POINT of this. She humiliated herself by her behavior, and actively appologizing to everyone concerned makes her face up to that, as well as providing closure for the incident. Disciplining a child is like dieting; it's an ongoing process, a life plan, rather than something that's done on an as-needed basis. The rewards and punnishments relating to the discipline are as-needed, while the rest of the process is ongoing.

[nredman]

Originally Posted by MindFad

I do not.

right

[effgee]

Originally Posted by ghporter

... This incident should have gotten the girl a couple of open-hand whacks across the butt, followed by loss of ALL priveledges (TV, movies, ANY entertainment of ANY kind), extra chores (YES, 5-year-olds can and should do chores) for a long time. Once she has been taught what was wrong about what she did (obviously she didn't know yet), she should formally appologize to everyone affected by her actions-the WHOLE CLASS, the teacher, and even the police officers.

Humiliating? You BET! THAT IS THE POINT of this. She humiliated herself by her behavior, and actively appologizing to everyone concerned makes her face up to that, as well as providing closure for the incident. Disciplining a child is like dieting; it's an ongoing process, a life plan, rather than something that's done on an as-needed basis. The rewards and punnishments relating to the discipline are as-needed, while the rest of the process is ongoing.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Professional kindergarten teachers should know how to deal with difficult children. This is their job, not the job of the police. It's the kindergarten teachers that failed miserably here.

Child Experts said the Teachers did everything right up to the point where they called teh Police. ALso when you watch it vs reading it, the kid wasent nearly as bad as it sounds in the article.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

For real.

Someone says, "I'm going to pay you $1 BILLION dollars a year and you wouldn't move here?

I find that very hard to believe.

Yes, Vancouver is awesome (love it there - especially the restaurants) but not good enough to pass up a billion dollars - especially U.S. currency which is worth more than Canadian...for a little while, anyway.

I wouldnt move for all the money in the world, because what use is money if I am not happy. As long as I have a couple thousand a month I can get by just fine. Things important to me include feeling safe even in the worst part of town, and I do here. Having clean water, clean air. Knowing there is a social system that protects people. You cant get pasts Vancouvers natural beauty either. Mountians, Beachs, Forests, good night life, lots of parks and services and entertainment (MISSING NHL) there is really not much that could make me move. Most important though is the people. Vancouver has amazing people here, almost every one is polite and helpful. It just comes down to what makes a person happy. Money dosent make me happy.