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Is the NYT really as liberal as it's made out to be? (Page 2)
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Thorzdad
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Feb 6, 2018, 10:30 AM
 
It's a story in the Fresno Bee about events in Fresno aimed at an area Congressman. Sounds like local coverage to me. Just because you can access it anywhere doesn't make it "national, headline news."
     
subego
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Feb 6, 2018, 11:02 AM
 
If this is a reply to my comment, that’s the point.

The Fresno Bee reports what matters to locals, the NYT reports national news. The difference in coverage between them is due to that, not their respective political slants.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Feb 6, 2018, 03:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Protesters say ‘Nunes must go’ after release of controversial memo | The Fresno Bee

Several dozen people in Fresno on Saturday called for Rep. Devin Nunes to step down as chairman of the House Intelligence Committee.”

I posit this isn’t national, headline news.
I agree but neither was the NYTs. That's another part of why the headline is irritating.

Edit: By saying Nunes constituents don't care about the memo they imply the memo must not be that controversial or important
     
subego
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Feb 6, 2018, 04:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I agree but neither was the NYTs. That's another part of why the headline is irritating.

Edit: By saying Nunes constituents don't care about the memo they imply the memo must not be that controversial or important
Okay... I can see that beef, but I read it differently.

This is a story about Nunes’ district. The only way that matters in a national context vis-a-vis the memo is whether his constituents will axe him over it.

I’m guessing there’s no indication they will, and that’s what the Times is reporting.


Defending the Times makes me feel dirty.
     
subego
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Feb 6, 2018, 04:27 PM
 
To put it another way, I think the subtext of the headline is the exact opposite of claiming the memo is unimportant. The memo being important is a given. This can be ascertained by all the column inches the Times is devoting to it. In that framework, the subtext of the headline is more like “don’t expect this to change these idiots’ minds”.
     
subego
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Feb 6, 2018, 06:53 PM
 
To put it another another way, now that I reread your post and understand it better, how his district will respond to his shenanigans at the polls is national news.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Feb 6, 2018, 09:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Okay... I can see that beef, but I read it differently.

This is a story about Nunes’ district. The only way that matters in a national context vis-a-vis the memo is whether his constituents will axe him over it.

I’m guessing there’s no indication they will, and that’s what the Times is reporting.


Defending the Times makes me feel dirty.
Originally Posted by subego View Post
To put it another another way, now that I reread your post and understand it better, how his district will respond to his shenanigans at the polls is national news.
That just makes this story more pointless. Maybe if they bothered to poll the district to put it into the spotlight it might have been worthwhile.
     
subego
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Feb 7, 2018, 01:47 PM
 
Sure it’s pointless. I read it and it’s pretty fluffy, but the question is if it’s slanted.

FWIW, they seem sensitive to your criticism and redid the headline to put more weight on the memo’s importance.

New headline is “Washington Is Abuzz Over the Nunes Memo. His California District, Not So Much”.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Feb 13, 2018, 09:29 PM
 
For the pro-active and morbidly curious, google Quinn Norton and bask in the warm glow.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Feb 13, 2018, 11:50 PM
 
"Investigating Quinn Norton, NYTimes Sees No Clear Link To Neo-Nazis."
     
subego
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Feb 14, 2018, 05:34 AM
 
Norton is awesome, and I’m too ****ing pissed off about this to write constructively.
     
subego
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Feb 14, 2018, 02:25 PM
 
**** you New York Times. Norton has more integrity in her ****ing fingernail than you have in your entire newsroom.

Context is dead, and you helped kill it you spineless pieces of shit.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Feb 15, 2018, 11:59 PM
 
Was her being friendly with neo-nazis out of context?
     
subego
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Feb 16, 2018, 12:13 PM
 
Have you ever noticed the blueprint for every neo-Nazi who disavows their Nazism is the same?

“It wasn’t until [unexpected person] reached out to me that I was able to realize how wrong I was.”

Every single one of these examples required someone being friendly to a neo-Nazi.

This is the context of her friendship, and it’s obvious to anyone even glancingly familiar with her turbo-progressive politics. The proposition her friendship implies sympathy to Nazism on her part is ignorant.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Feb 19, 2018, 12:18 AM
 
How do I put this... In a different time this could be tolerable. In 2017, it's not. And that's without getting into the merits of your analysis.

My question is, is the NYT incompetent or indifferent? How does a national news organization, particularly one who has some shitty social media rules, not to a once over on her twitter account?
     
subego
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Feb 19, 2018, 12:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
How do I put this... In a different time this could be tolerable. In 2017, it's not. And that's without getting into the merits of your analysis.
The moment reaching out to people with compassion is intolerable, [current year] can go **** itself.
     
subego
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Feb 19, 2018, 02:40 PM
 
To answer your other question, I’m sure they did, but she has over 80,000 tweets.

Likewise, in their perusal of those tweets, what would drive them to search for evidence of her being something she’s not?
     
subego
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Feb 19, 2018, 03:38 PM
 
FWIW, I’ve calmed down, but only a bit.

The reason I’m losing my shit is Norton is a force for good in this world, and I mean that in a social justice sense.

She’s also not guilty of anything.

An innocent person getting punished disturbs me. Social justice losing a voice in the paper of record disturbs me. That this was perpetrated in the name of social justice disturbs me.

To get inside my mindset, imagine if Franken or Louis C.K. were innocent of all charges, yet suffered their same respective downfalls.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Feb 19, 2018, 08:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
The moment reaching out to people with compassion is intolerable, [current year] can go **** itself.
It's not reaching out, though. Reaching it out is a one time thing. This a friendship. It is a continuing relationship in the face of unchanging views.


Originally Posted by subego View Post
To answer your other question, I’m sure they did, but she has over 80,000 tweets.

Likewise, in their perusal of those tweets, what would drive them to search for evidence of her being something she’s not?
Control-F "******"

You found 10 tweets


"We do this for everyone."
     
subego
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Feb 20, 2018, 02:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Reaching it out is a one time thing.
If this policy has been successful for you when it comes to repairing massively damaged people, consider yourself inordinately lucky.
     
subego
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Feb 20, 2018, 03:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Control-F "******"

You found 10 tweets


"We do this for everyone."
Maybe I don’t pay enough attention to the NYT. Have they had this problem before?

If they haven’t, the question being asked is “why didn’t they have hindsight”, which is in firmly in the realm of self-answering as questions go.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Feb 20, 2018, 11:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
If this policy has been successful for you when it comes to repairing massively damaged people, consider yourself inordinately lucky.
Fine, it's a semantic argument.

Do you have many examples of this working?


Originally Posted by subego View Post
Maybe I don’t pay enough attention to the NYT. Have they had this problem before?

If they haven’t, the question being asked is “why didn’t they have hindsight”, which is in firmly in the realm of self-answering as questions go.
Oh I'm not implying they do. But I'd be surprised if they didn't. People are constantly getting hosed by their own words the past few years.
     
subego
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Feb 21, 2018, 04:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Fine, it's a semantic argument.

Do you have many examples of this working?
As I said, every feel-good story of a Nazi/KKK type flipping.

Or is this not what’s being asked?
     
Laminar
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Feb 21, 2018, 04:48 PM
 
Like this guy, I assume?
     
subego
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Feb 21, 2018, 06:25 PM
 
That fits the bill. This is what came to mind for me.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Feb 21, 2018, 06:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
every feel-good story of a Nazi/KKK type flipping.
Yeah, what are they? I can think of one. You make it sound like they are numerous, so a few examples would be nice.

Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Like this guy, I assume?
I had forgotten about this guy.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
That fits the bill. This is what came to mind for me.
Yes, this is the example I was thinking of. I don't think it's common though.

I'd like to highlight, however, that both stories involve the very people they're think are inferior having a dialog with them. I think this is key.
     
subego
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Feb 21, 2018, 10:32 PM
 
What is the conclusion I am meant to be drawing?

For what argument am I asking to provide evidence against?

If it’s that she’s a Nazi sympathizer, I provide her entire body of work as counter-evidence.
     
Laminar
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Feb 22, 2018, 04:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
That fits the bill. This is what came to mind for me.
Modern "progressivism" isn't liberal, though, and our liberal arts colleges are now little more than Marxist recruiting centers.
Holy shit I don't miss CPT.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Feb 22, 2018, 09:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
For what argument am I asking to provide evidence against?
I asked for examples of your feel good stories, because I find you rationale for her behavior... extremely kind.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Feb 22, 2018, 09:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Holy shit I don't miss CPT.
I mean, you might as well sub in a fox news feed with posts like that. Jesus, glad I had him on ignore, that's worthless.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Feb 22, 2018, 10:37 PM
 
I forgot to add, those two success stories are great arguments for diversity. This is what liberals envision when they talk about its benefits.
     
subego
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Yesterday, 02:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I asked for examples of your feel good stories, because I find you rationale for her behavior... extremely kind.
Here’s a direct commentary from her about this from 2014. I wasn’t aware she had written it, or I would have posted it initially.

I won’t exactly say this validates my argument, but it certainly indicates her friendship is despite his neo-Nazi proclivities, not because of them.
     
subego
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Yesterday, 02:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Holy shit I don't miss CPT.
He made his points in an over-the-top manner, but I’ve been on about the same thing for just as long, and this is perfect example of what we’re complaining about. To wit...

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
People are constantly getting hosed by their own words the past few years.
This right here. People are getting hosed by their words. This is theoretically okay because the words match the intent, and it’s the intent which makes someone worthy of a hosing.

When it’s just the words that matter, and the intent behind them is not ascribed any meaning whatsoever? Yeah, I’d call that cultural Marxism.
     
Laminar
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Yesterday, 02:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
He made his points in an over-the-top manner, but I’ve been on about the same thing for just as long,
No, you'll have the conversation, he wouldn't. He'd name call and belittle.
     
subego
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Yesterday, 04:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
No, you'll have the conversation, he wouldn't.
He would with me, and I presume it’s in no small part because we didn’t have all this personal shit going on.

To be fair, he conducts his debates on a particular wavelength, and before I was able to tune myself to it my assumption had been he habitually argued in bad faith.

He doesn’t. Certainly not to the extent people here imagine. He’s by no means an innocent victim, and speaking to that he did habitually hammer on people’s hot buttons, but I consider much of his reputation here undeserved.

If it was deserved, I’d be far less inclined to come to his defense.
     
Laminar
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Yesterday, 05:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
He would with me, and I presume it’s in no small part because we didn’t have all this personal shit going on.
You weren't on "Team Regressive Liberal." When I "came out" caucusing for Bernie, his behavior toward me changed markedly.

Show me a multi-page CTP argument that didn't end in name-calling and feigned high-roading. You have plenty of those, he has none.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Yesterday, 06:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
You weren't on "Team Regressive Liberal."
Bingo. If anything I felt he went out of his way not to argue with subego.
     
subego
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Yesterday, 08:10 PM
 
I’m a Bernie supporter who buys into most Social Justice theory. He never got on my case about the former, and our arguments about the latter were always civil despite holding opposite opinions.

What we agreed on was how shit was coming off the rails, with results like we have with Norton, where an angry mob has just blindly pitchforked and torched an ally.
( Last edited by subego; Today at 02:15 AM. )
     
 
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