[freudling]

ghporter:

You are oversimplifying things. No, it's not "our fault" as you have taken that angle. No sense in arguing over this. Laptops are portable computers and they travel with us. They are not stationary computers meant to be in one spot. That means they are going to see many different environments. Different desks, different chairs, different climates, different altitudes...

We use them to watch movies in bed, on airplanes, at Cafes, on our laps, on customer locations, etc. There is no question that these computers have sharp edges, too sharp. Many complaints out there. If Apple sanded down the edges it would fix "their problem". And it's not just using the machine, it's handling it that can pose issues too. Like the "latch" indentation. There are 2 extremely sharp edges on each side. A user has to feel that everyday. And I have even seen cases where people have cut themselves on these sharp edges.

Here's hoping Apple will smooth things out on the next revisions.

[olePigeon]

Get one of these. It'll protect the screen, you can use it to clean, and you can drape it over the side to protect you from the sharp edges.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by freudling 

ghporter:

You are oversimplifying things. No, it's not "our fault" as you have taken that angle. No sense in arguing over this. Laptops are portable computers and they travel with us. They are not stationary computers meant to be in one spot. That means they are going to see many different environments. Different desks, different chairs, different climates, different altitudes...

We use them to watch movies in bed, on airplanes, at Cafes, on our laps, on customer locations, etc. There is no question that these computers have sharp edges, too sharp. Many complaints out there. If Apple sanded down the edges it would fix "their problem". And it's not just using the machine, it's handling it that can pose issues too. Like the "latch" indentation. There are 2 extremely sharp edges on each side. A user has to feel that everyday. And I have even seen cases where people have cut themselves on these sharp edges.

Here's hoping Apple will smooth things out on the next revisions.

I didn't mean to come across as assigning "fault." I do worry about how little formal training people get in keyboarding skills today, as this leads to a lot of repetitive stress, overuse and positioning-related injuries, injuries that are self-inflicted. I have treated a lot of people who hurt themselves by using all the right hardware in all the wrong ways. Any piece of furniture can be labeled "ergonomic" and not be any better than a Shaker-style straight-backed chair, and worse if it's not used correctly. Laptops are a special critter because not only do they have a keyboard that we generally don't use properly, but they also have a screen that encourages us to strain our necks to view.

My point was that if one adjusts one's positioning to minimize uncomfortable or awkward postures, most of the issues anyone has with laptops would be minimized. And while it's a good idea to "float one's hands" over a keyboard, when we're composing we often type only a few words and then ponder how our new text works with the old, so resting the hands is a natural thing. But it should not be "natural" to rest anything on an edge that's recognized as sharp already, and a bit of adjustment to where we put our hands when we're not actively typing would reduce the discomfort a lot.

I too think Apple should "ease" that edge, especially because of where it is and how it can interact with the user's hands. But just being conscious of where the edge is and not laying the whole weight of your forearms and hands on the edge is a big step toward comfort.

[freudling]

ghporter:

You're right that we could all be better educated on ergonomics. But people like you and me who use computers all day... we know better. And we know enough that even subtle design faults that most people wouldn't notice... we notice. In this case, in my opinion, and some others' opinions, this is a major issue.

No matter how ergonomically correct a person is, we all rest our palms/wrists on the palm rest. And those sharp edges reveal their ugly heads every time we do that.

Those sharp edges are always there. They never leave. I sent Apple feedback about it and am sure they are going to smooth things out in the future, because there is no way that they don't notice it either. I have a MacBook Pro 15.4" and an Air. The Air I can let slide a bit because it is so thin. The MBP I can't. I dislike the sharp edges even more than when I first got it.

Sometimes for fun I will pull out the old iBook Clamshell, or the PowerBook Wallstreet. Ya, they are dated, but the front rounded edge on say the Clamshell is so far superior to the current line of Apple portables it's laughable. Having said all this, I just picked up the Magic Mouse and that is super sleek and nice. I almost wish they offered a high end MacBook Pro with rounded, sleek edges in the sort of polycarbonate, sleek plastic that the entry MacBook has, and the Magic Mouse too mind you.

[NeverTriedApple]

I agree with OP. I have suffered from sharp edges ever since I ditched Apple wireless keyboard and mouse in favour of mobility. If anyone finds an easy and portable solution - pls do share.

[ghporter]

A quick and dirty, quite inexpensive solution is to buy a microfiber screen protector (mine came from Radtech) and simply roll/fold it to cover the edge. It makes nice padding and the fabric is comfortable on your skin. The edge won't scratch and bite your wrists this way, though it's still not a good idea to apply pressure to your wrists while you type.

[Mojo]

Many thanks for this thread. I have been waiting for a 13" MBP anti-glare option but now I will be keeping a lookout for a MBP case redesign before I get another portable Mac...

I don't get it... Apple designs some beautiful products but sometimes it seems like they don't bother to let normal people actually use the products before selling them to the public. Case in point: the flat-screen iMac that has no vertical adjustments. They are ergonomic disasters; I almost sold my 24" iMac when I began experiencing terrible neck pain from looking up at the screen. To make it work with my current office furniture I had to raise my chair to its maximum height along with the keyboard and trackball. I am fortunate that my knees barely fit under the slide-out keyboard drawer. Otherwise I was looking at spending around $1000 for a desk just to accommodate the inadequately-designed iMac.

We pay a premium for Apple computers and then we have to resort to jury-rigged/expensive solutions to mitigate basic design lapses such as glare-prone screens, minimally-adjustable monitors and sharp-edged portable Macs. Me thinks that the joke is on us...

I suspect that if a PC was introduced that required its owners to sand the edge in order to make it comfortable to use that Apple owners would laugh their heads off. But if it is an Apple product then it becomes perfectly reasonable to suggest the use of fine grit sandpaper to make it usable. Amazing!

[imitchellg5]

I wouldn't go quite that far. It's not like the MacBook is unusable as you suggest. You just have to be conscious; after a while it'll become habit.

[NeverTriedApple]

During my last visit to Apple Store, an Apple Guru told me he never experienced anything similar and suggested lifting the palm above the MBP in quite unusual, let alone ergonomic, way so that it won't touch the edge. I tried that but unless one's got wrists of Kermit the frog one won't be able to work like that for long.

[dboswell]

I wrote up instructions (with pictures) on how to file down the edge with a dremel & emery board.
How to Fix the Sharp Edge on your MacBook Pro
I know it sounds drastic, but it really isn't. The laptop looks perfect afterwards too (not all scratched up as you may have feared).

If you still get lines on your wrists from using your laptop, you really need to do something about it.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by NeverTriedApple 

During my last visit to Apple Store, an Apple Guru told me he never experienced anything similar and suggested lifting the palm above the MBP in quite unusual, let alone ergonomic, way so that it won't touch the edge. I tried that but unless one's got wrists of Kermit the frog one won't be able to work like that for long.

In my opinion, the person who invented the "wrist rest" as an actual place to rest one's wrists must work for a hand clinic-it's a great way to give you lots of hand problems. It takes almost no effort to "float" one's hands over the keyboard while typing, and if you're not actively typing, rest the HANDS somewhere comfortable. The Guru guy may have had an interesting idea, but I don't leave real ergonomics to computer guys; ergonomitists and occupational therapists do this stuff for a living.

[Rockaway]

Get a hard shell case for your MacBook Pro from Speck.

I had the same complaint when I got the MBP 18 months ago. I bought the Speck hard shell case to protect the MBP from scratches, and to make it stand out (in color) from the other laptops in the house. I didn't notice how well it also worked for the sharp edge problem until recently, when I took the case off to sell the MBP (time to upgrade).

This really works very well, and the case fits so well you won't even know its there.

Get the Satin model because it resists scratches very well. Keeps the laptop looking like new and no more sharp edges!

[freudling]

Some months later... we're still in sharp edge country. Too bad Apple didn't round the edges on the latest MB updates a week ago. This is really a huge issue for me now. And no, I won't buy a case because I don't like cases. And I shouldn't have to. This is a design fault and needs to be fixed.

I have been using my Air quite a bit lately, and the sharp edges are bothering me more on it now, just like my MBP.

We are talking about very sharp, cut aluminum. It's almost like a knife. I really can't believe Apple doesn't notice this. Why someone would ever choose to design and manufacture these things this way I have no idea. Looks like we are not alone though in our complaints:

MacBook - Appledefects

MacBook sharp edges - Mac Forums

MacBook Pro Sharp Edge Hurt Wrist

[imitchellg5]

Why not sand it down if it's such a big issue? My guess is though that you're not using it in a way that's very ergonomically correct... My wrists are never touching my MBP's edges if I'm sitting up straight.

[ghporter]

Just because a lot of people are complaining that their bad habits hurt doesn't make Apple's design faulty. imitchellg5 is right-if you rest your hand or wrist on the edge of the case while you're typing, "you're doing it wrong." While typing, your hands should NOT rest on anything-this both reduces the effort to type* and reduces your chances of producing or aggravating an overuse injury.

And I've said this before in this thread, but it bears repeating. I really don't want to have anyone, let alone people I correspond with here, injure themselves through simply typing. And it CAN happen.

*The amount of energy needed to strike a key is relatively low when the fingers at the first joint (the "metacarpal-phalangeal" joint) are at a low angle to the hand bones (the metacarpals). When you rest your hands or wrists on the surface that holds the keys, you change all the lever angles, resulting in a much larger angle between fingers and hands, and considerably more energy needed to position the hand so the finger can strike the key, along with more energy needed to strike the key.

[Wiskedjak]

If laptops were commonly used at proper keyboard height, I agree with you. But, for most people, laptops are used at table/desk heights that are already too high for keyboards (which usually taper off towards the wrists), and laptops are generally taller than keyboards. This means that most people's forearms are angling *up* towards their laptops, making it difficult to not rest one's wrists on the leading edge of the keyboard.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

If laptops were commonly used at proper keyboard height, I agree with you. But, for most people, laptops are used at table/desk heights that are already too high for keyboards (which usually taper off towards the wrists), and laptops are generally taller than keyboards. This means that most people's forearms are angling *up* towards their laptops, making it difficult to not rest one's wrists on the leading edge of the keyboard.

Simple answer: put the thing somewhere other than on that "wrong height" surface. Or get an external keyboard. Or both. I haven't even mentioned what having to look DOWN onto your laptop's screen does to your back and shoulders, but it ain't good. And it hurts.

Quite seriously, if the surface isn't appropriate for a "normal keyboard," then it isn't appropriate for a notebook. Period. I may have an advantage in being taller than average, but I still have found plenty of bad places to use my notebook, and those places hurt me. So I use more appropriate locations and surfaces, including of all things my lap (!), rather than do things that make my wrists hurt and my fingers go numb.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Simple answer: put the thing somewhere other than on that "wrong height" surface. Or get an external keyboard. Or both. I haven't even mentioned what having to look DOWN onto your laptop's screen does to your back and shoulders, but it ain't good. And it hurts.

Quite seriously, if the surface isn't appropriate for a "normal keyboard," then it isn't appropriate for a notebook. Period. I may have an advantage in being taller than average, but I still have found plenty of bad places to use my notebook, and those places hurt me. So I use more appropriate locations and surfaces, including of all things my lap (!), rather than do things that make my wrists hurt and my fingers go numb.

But, that's what I'm saying. By virtue of their purpose (portability), laptop users don't always have the luxury of using their laptop in the most optimal location. A laptop design should take that into consideration and taper, or at least round, off the front edges. MacBook designs don't do that and sacrifice user comfort for aesthetics. The G3 PowerBooks were designed more for user comfort than the MacBooks are.

[ghporter]

Are you saying "convenience" trumps common sense and avoiding sharp edges? That Apple should round the edges of their notebook cases because a lot of people don't understand that they shouldn't rest their hands or wrists at all, let alone on sharp edges? I don't think I could accept that at all. Whether on an optimum-height desktop, or on my lap at a crowded airport gate, I don't think I could force myself to rest any part on a sharp edge, let alone make it a habit.

[freudling]

ghporter:

Incredulity abound with you. There is no question. The edges of the MacBook Air and MacBook Pro are sharp. It is a fact. Undeniable. This implies a whole host of things. At the least, generally, very sharp edges on a laptop is just not good, no matter what world you are in.

Of course, we want to use our laptops on our laps, on tables, laying down... any talk of not doing that with a laptop... that people shouldn't do that, is unrealistic.

It's why laptops were made that we could unshackle ourselves form our desks.

But there is something very flawed with your assessment. Apple's laptops now feature very large multi-touch trackpads. It's not only about typing now. We use our MacBooks for graphic design, a lot of us. And we use the trackpad to draw things, to edit video and pictures, etc. Many times we need to anchor our wrist to keep it steady. Nobody can properly do a core set of these tasks hovering their wrist over the computer. And more people I know use wrist bands because their wrist/hand slides much better on the surface of the MacBook. My point is that your ideas about ergonomics are antiquated.

But nevermind any of this. Here is an example of how bad sharp edges are in the real world.

MacBook Airs and Pros and slippery. Almost too slippery. WIth the Air, it is so thin and light, the "slipperyness" is exaggerated some. My friend was walking by me, and accidentally, the MacBook Air slipped out of his hands. It hit me, cut my hand, and hurt very badly. It was about 4 feet away from my arm when it dropped. I have had other computers drop like this, and their rounded edges resulted in no cuts, and much less pain.

[reRESERVEDMD]

You guys must be using the laptop in a wrong way because my arms only gently brush the edges and I never rest my hands on the edges or anything but the keys actually. That actually feels really comfortable as well!

[Simon]

I can't say the sharp edges on my new MBP have given me any trouble. Yes, they are really sharp. Especially around the grove to open the screen where there are two nasty sharp corners. But I only really feel those sharp edges when I deliberately run my fingers across it.

When I'm typing neither my hands nor arms sit on the edge. I can't say it's uncomfortable at all. In fact, I find the unibody extremely comfortable to type on. Because of the solid and rigid base you can type much more firmly than on the pre-UB MBPs. No flexing, no bulging, no vibration, nothing. Just a solid hand rest surface.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by freudling 

ghporter:

Incredulity abound with you. There is no question. The edges of the MacBook Air and MacBook Pro are sharp. It is a fact. Undeniable. This implies a whole host of things. At the least, generally, very sharp edges on a laptop is just not good, no matter what world you are in.

Of course, we want to use our laptops on our laps, on tables, laying down... any talk of not doing that with a laptop... that people shouldn't do that, is unrealistic.

It's why laptops were made that we could unshackle ourselves form our desks.

But there is something very flawed with your assessment. Apple's laptops now feature very large multi-touch trackpads. It's not only about typing now. We use our MacBooks for graphic design, a lot of us. And we use the trackpad to draw things, to edit video and pictures, etc. Many times we need to anchor our wrist to keep it steady. Nobody can properly do a core set of these tasks hovering their wrist over the computer. And more people I know use wrist bands because their wrist/hand slides much better on the surface of the MacBook. My point is that your ideas about ergonomics are antiquated.

But nevermind any of this. Here is an example of how bad sharp edges are in the real world.

MacBook Airs and Pros and slippery. Almost too slippery. WIth the Air, it is so thin and light, the "slipperyness" is exaggerated some. My friend was walking by me, and accidentally, the MacBook Air slipped out of his hands. It hit me, cut my hand, and hurt very badly. It was about 4 feet away from my arm when it dropped. I have had other computers drop like this, and their rounded edges resulted in no cuts, and much less pain.

You seem to not actually think about what I have posted. There is NO REASON to actually REST any part of your body ON that sharp edge (and yes, I've agreed that the edges are sharp on more than one occasion). If you rest your wrists or hands on the edge, you're doing something wrong, whether you have your computer on your lap, on a desk or on anything else. I have said, repeatedly, that you should find a comfortable height to place a notebook on so that you don't "have to" rest your wrists on the computer at all. I have pointed out the biomechanical facts of how the hands and fingers work, and how resting your wrists on anything while typing is both more effortful and potentially damaging. Ergonomics and physical workflow analysis are part of my profession's charge-I do this for a living. I have never said "don't use a notebook computer anywhere except on a desk or table," but rather pointed out that whatever surface you use the thing on should be at a good height to allow for comfortable and healthful use. You can be incredulous all you want, but these facts remain.

[freudling]

ghporter:

Yes, there is a reason to rest your wrists on the edge. First, when using the trackpad to do graphic design. Second, when laying down in bed, on the couch, etc. What I think is that you don't actually believe what you are saying, you are just being pugnacious for the sake of it.

I really hope Apple addresses this issue soon...

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by freudling 

ghporter:

Yes, there is a reason to rest your wrists on the edge. First, when using the trackpad to do graphic design. Second, when laying down in bed, on the couch, etc. What I think is that you don't actually believe what you are saying, you are just being pugnacious for the sake of it.

I really hope Apple addresses this issue soon...

Trackpads are not anywhere near the best input device for graphic design-even a very cheap Wacom is tons better than that. And reclining while using a computer is hardly an ergonomic situation-nor is it usually terribly comfortable.

If you want to be comfortable, find a way to sit up with the computer above (or on) your lap, then allow your arms to hang naturally and vertically from your shoulders. Now your biceps are in charge of holding up your hands and the keyboard is easily accessible without resting anything anywhere. Any other posture or position WILL strain shoulders, neck and back and make you uncomfortable. Extended use of such a posture has a history of causing problems related to nerve impingement syndromes-they mimic carpal tunnel syndrome in some cases.

But what do I know, I'm just an occupational therapist that gets paid (nicely) to advise people on how to avoid overuse and postural injuries by properly configuring their desks, laptop use, etc...

[freudling]

For the rest of us who think this is a problem, for those who have posted in here saying it's a problem, for all those people and even websites dedicated to this problem, tell Apple how you feel.

MacBook sharp edges - Mac Forums

Solution to the MacBook Pro's sharp edges - Mac Forums

Ideas to remedy the Macbook Pro sharp edges...? - Mac Forums

My MacBook cuts like a knife

Man files "sharp" edge off his MacBook Pro

MACBOOK’S RAZOR SHARP EDGES CAN CUT YOUR WRIST – STOP IMMEDIATELY

MacBook sharp edges quick fix - OS X Daily

MacBook Photos - White MacBook's Sharp Edge

YouTube - Tutorial: How to File the Edge off a MacBook Pro (75,000 views)

One of many threads on the subject at Apple:

http://discussions.info.apple.com/th...ageID=11414311

Quotes from the above:

"I usually only notice it when I am using my MBP in bed"

"I don't type at all. I edit a lot of photos, several hours a day, and my hands do get tired, so I rest them on my laptop often when I'm working."

On and on... we're not the only ones who think it's a problem.

Give Apple Feedback:

http://www.apple.com/feedback/

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Trackpads are not anywhere near the best input device for graphic design-even a very cheap Wacom is tons better than that. And reclining while using a computer is hardly an ergonomic situation-nor is it usually terribly comfortable.

Or a Magic Mouse... Seriously, using a trackpad for graphic design on any machine isn't going to be fun after a few hours.

[Dewdman42]

Another shocked and disappointed MBP user here with palms complaining of the discomfort. Putting sharp edges in the area where the palm is going to rest at least some of the time, is just plain stupid. I can't believe Apple hasn't fixed this by now. Yea raise your wrists to type. Fine. Possibly even for some trackpad operations, but not all. But the simple truth is that nobody sits there with their hand hovering in the air for hours at a time. We set it down particularly while using the trackpad. In particular the corner spike where the notch is cut to open the lid is sharp enough feel like a stab. This is just plain and simple lousy production. Its a gorgeous laptop, I will find another solution but sadly, the beauty of it will end up hidden under a case for the sake of protecting my palms from the poorly designed edges of this laptop.

Sanding is not an option either, come on.

Anyone know which aftermarket skins or other devices are best suited for curing this problem while minimally covering the laptop? I actually don't want it completely covered because I believe heat dissipation needs to happen through the unibody case.

[Wiskedjak]

the only way that apple can justify this design is if they explicitly say that the design is intended to force proper keyboard posture.

[Dewdman42]

whoever made up the bull crap about proper keyboard posture is full of it. I'm not even complaining about typing, I spend a lot more time with the trackpad and that is where it bothers me, on the palm of my hands, not my wrist. Maybe if I had longer fingers I could use the trackpad without hitting my palm.

In any case, different people use their laptops differently, in different positions and places, some rest their palms, some do not. Some type for hours on end and they would want to use it with the wrists up and the laptop at just the right ergonomic height. Others of us are use are laptops for a variety of other uses, that involve track pad gestures and any number of things.

Bottom line, a lot of people ahve been complaining about this for a long time and Apple just keeps putting it out and causing a significant number of people to literally suffer every day. Boo Apple.

By the way, in looking for some possible skin solutions, I notice there is a little rubber seal on the lid of the MBP that is meant to make contact with the main body when I close the lid. Its a very nice tight fit. I don't think the MBP will close properly if any kind of skin is added that wraps across the edge in question. It would either need to come up the side and wrap across for no more than 1-2mm, ending there for the rubber seal to make contact, or else it would need to come the opposite direction and end before reaching the end. The first solution I just mentioned is the only one that might help, but most likely any kind of tape would just unpeel itself with any heat at all with only 1-2mm of sticking surface on the top.

So really the only solution is to carry some extra thing around to set there while you use the computer. WHAT A HASSLE.

[Snow-i]

lol @ this whole thread.


The edges of the macbooks are at the very worst, crisp. I have to press really really hard to get any discomfort from any of the several positions I use it from. I think that if your laptop is that hassling, you might choose another option next time you go to buy one.

I think the only justification Apple has to give is its quarterly report - how many sold? Doesn't look like its really an issue.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Dewdman42 

whoever made up the bull crap about proper keyboard posture is full of it. I'm not even complaining about typing, I spend a lot more time with the trackpad and that is where it bothers me, on the palm of my hands, not my wrist. Maybe if I had longer fingers I could use the trackpad without hitting my palm.

I did not make up anything. Ergonomics is a science, based on the biomechanics of the human body. The wrists, in particular, are complex and in some ways delicate. Spending lots of time resting your wrists while actively typing or using a trackpad is almost guaranteed to get you in to see a hand surgeon-because you will damage your wrists.

Originally Posted by Dewdman42 

In any case, different people use their laptops differently, in different positions and places, some rest their palms, some do not. Some type for hours on end and they would want to use it with the wrists up and the laptop at just the right ergonomic height. Others of us are use are laptops for a variety of other uses, that involve track pad gestures and any number of things.

By simply adjusting positions (both yours and the computer's) you can still avoid resting anything anywhere while actively using the computer. You just have to think about it for a bit and practice a few times. It's not hard to do. Of course since so many people think that slouching down in a chair and stretching their arms to the desktop to reach the keyboard is "relaxing," I think this level of thought is too high for them. But smart people-like our membership-can learn from their discomfort and do something about it.

Originally Posted by Dewdman42 

Bottom line, a lot of people ahve been complaining about this for a long time and Apple just keeps putting it out and causing a significant number of people to literally suffer every day. Boo Apple.

Got numbers on how many people have actually complained to Apple? I don't, but I don't see how it could be "a lot" in Apple's eyes, or they would have done something about it. A chamfer to match lid and base fronts would do a lot to get people to stop complaining, and it would look pretty cool. But I think most complaints have actually boiled down to "gripes online."

[fmalloy]

Actually, what I have found is that over time I've become accustomed to using the MacBook and it no longer bothers me. Strange...

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by fmalloy 

Actually, what I have found is that over time I've become accustomed to using the MacBook and it no longer bothers me. Strange...

That's a result of the caluses building up.

[bishopazrael]

The bottom line is that this is an issue of personal use/ taste. I too found the edges too sharp. I went with 600 grit sand paper wrapped around an old pill bottle. 10 minutes later the whole front edge was nice and smooth, and the sharp points at the opening catch are gone.

For those of you saying that theres no problem, you're all being disingenuous. If you have no problem with them, fine, but please don't minimize someone else's discomfort. We can all agree to disagree. But one thing we can agree on that while apple products are brilliant, sometimes they just don't have the greatest designs. It takes till revision C or D to get something really down.

Pics of my success on the way.

[TrumanHW]

Literally. Ridiculous. As the immediately previous post says, "what you can't do is invalidate someone's dissatisfaction." GHPorter, admin or not, you're being a douche. Don't call you a name? Fine, I'll long hand it out. You're being ENTIRELY self-righteous. So you've studied HF or Egronomics. Great! But that doesn't mean you can DICTATE product usage. And aside from those companies who attempt to copy cupertino in the hopes of cutting in to their market, no other manufacturer has missed this point. So much so that not only does it happen on a subtle level, but to a high degree of engineered evidence, manufacturers like lenovo not only round the corner, but they slope the preceding material. And whether you think users [should] do it YOUR way or not, the fact is, the 7 digit (or higher) number of people who've bought the product WONT. I've NEVER, EVER seen someone who follows your posit. EVER. I'm an admin AND own a tech company (we repair logic board water damage and everything easier, as well - with board level technicians). And if your concern is carpel tunnel, I assure you, apples design that REQUIRES suspended wrists for laptop-durations of use (these aren't typewriters in which you continuously type - so you're suggesting that instead of resting my hands where I'll shortly need them, I constantly move them away to accommodate a design FLAW)... and alternatively, those who don't follow this "paradigm" ... will actually be MORE likely to need an orthopedic surgeon, because acute stress is more damaging than distributed. Thus, sharp edge = greater risk of damage.

Quit with the broken record song. Just because you're the admin here doesn't mean you should TELL people how to use what THEY BOUGHT. I can use my laptop for a doorstop if I want.

Just as the vernacular usage of a term results in a dictionary addressing the usage, the common usage of product is a version of what correct usage is, irrespective of the engineer/HF decree. And it is that sort of reality that car manufacturers accept when designing cars for accidents; that passengers don't always sit properly in their cars.

[ghporter]

Truman, I'm an occupational therapist. I spent years in school and more in the real world working with people who hurt themselves by persisting on using keyboards, chairs, desks and other things incorrectly. I have provided advice that is freely available through other sources in the hopes that people here may avoid injuring themselves and winding up spending lots of very painful time continuing to injure themselves. When typing was something that was taught in a formal setting, the incidence of carpel tunnel symptoms was radically lower than it is today-and that is in terms of cases per 10,000 population, not just raw numbers. Resting one's wrists on any edge is damaging to the wrists and the median nerve. Period. It doesn't matter if it's an Apple notebook, a fancy desk with a keyboard on top of it, or anything else. And for your information, before I went to graduate school and changed careers, I spent decades as an electronics technician and educator, and my first bachelors degree was in computer science. Coders are one of the bigger "risk populations" for carpel tunnel (ever notice the stereotype of "computer geeks" that includes the wrist splint?), along with data input workers.

If you want to complain that the design of the MacBook (and MBP) is dangerous, be my guest. Calling me names won't change the fact that resting your wrists on anything will eventually cause you pain, numbness and other problems. Feel free to use your notebook to injure yourself. But I have done my ethical best to prevent your self-injury.

By the way, you have used up your "new user grace post." Your tone and attitude are not appropriate for our forums, and if you rant this way to any other member, you will be banned.

[Waragainstsleep]

On top of all that, you're kind of shooting down your own argument. "I want to hit myself repeatedly over the head with an Xserve, why the hell didn't Apple make them out of foam rubber and fill them helium!"

Car manufacturers have to look at how people will sit within reason. I don't think they spend any time at all deigning features to protect people who want to sit on their heads like Mork. Of course now we come down to what is reasonable. If training someone to do a task properly helps reduce injury risks, then typing is no different to heavy lifting. If you don't wish to learn the 'proper' way, then you live with your choice. Its no different to drinking alcohol in that respect.

We are all free to do as we wish. I'm yet to be convinced we should all have the right to complain about it afterwards and expect everyone to sympathise.

[Snow-i]

I find it ironic that he argues that Glenn has no right to dictate product usage, when similarly he has no right to dictate product design - except in his choice of laptop.

We are all free to do as we wish. I'm yet to be convinced we should all have the right to complain about it afterwards and expect everyone to sympathise.

QFT. If you don't like the product, return it. Apple even lets you play with them before you buy.

[Person Man]

If you look closely at Glenn's posts, he readily admits that the edges are sharp. Nowhere does he say that they shouldn't be changed, but that doesn't make his point that you shouldn't rest your wrists on the laptop when typing or using the trackpad any less valid. The problems he is describing can occur on ANY laptop or any device with a keyboard, be it your shiny new MacBook Pro with sharp edges or the 75 year old mechanical typewriter you found in Grandma's attic.

Many of you are using the argument about the portable nature of the laptop. Portability and convenience do not trump ergonomic safety. The damage done is cumulative and repetitive stress injuries (RSI) do not care that you "have to use the computer that way and that there is no other way for you to use it." Glenn is not trying to insult your intelligence. He is pointing out the facts. It is up to you to take his advice or ignore it at your own risk.

As a physician I have seen countless people "blow off my advice." "You don't know the circumstances, Doc. I'm *different* from everyone else." Everyone thinks that what happens to others won't happen to them personally. I can't begin to tell you how many times people come to me with problems that could have been prevented by listening to my advice and in the end, many of them end up saying, "I should have listened to you in the first place, Doc." Now, I don't try and rub salt in the wound by saying, "yes, you should have," and neither will Glenn, but there is a reason he keeps repeating the advice.

We are not trying to tell you how to use your laptop. It is *entirely* up to you whether to listen to it or not, but by ignoring the advice you most certainly *are* subjecting yourselves to the risk of RSI regardless of whether you personally think you will or not.

Again, we're not saying the edges shouldn't be changed. I personally believe they should be. But that doesn't change the fact that the problems most people are describing with the edges can't be avoided by following the advice being given by Glenn.

In fact, if you look in the manual that comes with your computer, you will find the exact same advice Glenn is giving. This appears in all laptop manuals, whether they have sharp edges or not.

[lpkmckenna]

When I rest my forearms while typing, I can feel the edge against arms, but it doesn't bug me at all, probably because I'm so skinny. Are all the complainers all fat people with fat forearms? Or perhaps skinny people with fat forearms?

Also, I can play a FPS on my MacBook for hours, and the edge doesn't bug me.

[TrumanHW]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Truman, I'm an occupational therapist. I spent years in school and more in the real world working with people who hurt themselves by persisting on using keyboards, chairs, desks and other things incorrectly. I have provided advice that is freely available through other sources in the hopes that people here may avoid injuring themselves and winding up spending lots of very painful time continuing to injure themselves. When typing was something that was taught in a formal setting, the incidence of carpel tunnel symptoms was radically lower than it is today-and that is in terms of cases per 10,000 population, not just raw numbers. Resting one's wrists on any edge is damaging to the wrists and the median nerve. Period. It doesn't matter if it's an Apple notebook, a fancy desk with a keyboard on top of it, or anything else. And for your information, before I went to graduate school and changed careers, I spent decades as an electronics technician and educator, and my first bachelors degree was in computer science. Coders are one of the bigger "risk populations" for carpel tunnel (ever notice the stereotype of "computer geeks" that includes the wrist splint?), along with data input workers.

If you want to complain that the design of the MacBook (and MBP) is dangerous, be my guest. Calling me names won't change the fact that resting your wrists on anything will eventually cause you pain, numbness and other problems. Feel free to use your notebook to injure yourself. But I have done my ethical best to prevent your self-injury.

By the way, you have used up your "new user grace post." Your tone and attitude are not appropriate for our forums, and if you rant this way to any other member, you will be banned.

Thats all the grace period I needed. I felt you were being a bully through repetition - but my case and frustration having been expressed exhausts my need for it further. Thanks for not being reactionary.

That said, if you think about how a laptop is used, in order to not have to suspend your arms over your keyboard, you need your keyboard basically, below your elbows. And to do that, demands you strain your neck by looking down - so either your wrists will be the fulcrum or your neck will be in a straining position. Or perhaps you're suggesting people never use their laptop anywhere but on a desk with full furniture bought just for ergonomics, and that I never use a computer anywhere in which I can't control the environment. Its just... kind of ridiculous and not representative of how people actually use things - and this whole diatribe persists because apple elected to ignore common usage, or, to be self-righteous in designing something that demands one point of ergonomic discipline, while ignoring all other aspects. And I highly doubt the good will.

[Snow-i]

Talk about self righteous. Why don't you just sand them down if it bugs you that much, or better yet - buy a different laptop?

[ghporter]

Laptops are far from an optimal computer platform for long term, extended use. You are completely correct that having the laptop's keyboard in an ergonomically appropriate position requires the user to tilt his/her head downward in a fairly extreme position, which itself is not good ergonomics. The difference is that merely tilting your head down does not impose potentially permanent damage, while resting your wrists on anything does.

Ideally, the viewing area of any computer display should be elevated so that the user's eyes are level with the top 1/3 of the display. This simply can't be done with a laptop. However, the neck strain incumbent with moderate use of a laptop in a low, wrist-compatible position can be mitigated or eliminated with simple, easy neck movements that keep the neck from becoming fatigued or overly stretched. These movements include shoulder movements as well. Simply roll the shoulders backward as far as possible and hold for a few beats, shrug as high as possible for a few beats, roll the shoulders forward for a few beats, then push the shoulders down as far as possible for a few beats. After this warm up, tilt the head all the way up for a few beats, lean to the left for a few beats, tilt forward all the way for a few beats, then lean right for a few beats. Finish up with turning the head fully to the left and holding, then turn the head fully to the right and holding. The holds I describe are important, but not lengthy-a slow count to 3 is more than adequate. These are also very useful comfort exercises for workers with desktop computers, though they're not nearly as essential in a properly situated desktop context.

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

When I rest my forearms while typing, I can feel the edge against arms, but it doesn't bug me at all, probably because I'm so skinny. Are all the complainers all fat people with fat forearms? Or perhaps skinny people with fat forearms?

Also, I can play a FPS on my MacBook for hours, and the edge doesn't bug me.

That might have something to do with it. I think another big issue is that people are typing at an odd angle.... though I would think typing with your wrists below the keyboard would be incredibly uncomfortable. Frankly, I have had my Macbook for a little under a month and I rather like the hard machined edges. Makes it look and feel more expensive than my cheap plastic toshiba.

I was one of those lucky individuals who learned how to touch type in high school in computer class, so proper wrist placement and ergonomics was nailed into my head at a young age.

PS. It also seems to have helped that I inherited skinny asian wrists.

[Waragainstsleep]

My wrists are far from skinny and I play FPS on my MacBook Pro all the time too. But I agree with the statement that it helps make it feel more expensive. I have to work on a lot of PC laptops and they are all just cheap and nasty. Laptops shouldn't creak when you rest you wrist on them. Or pick them up.

[Doc HM]

I hate myself so the sharp edges of my Mac book helpfully combine my intense self loathing, my desire to self harm AND my need to work online.

Too soon?

[kddesign]

Found and easy solution to the sharp edge. It is selling on ebay. Simple to apply and looks good too. Search for: Lame ebay spammer trying to be coy.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by kddesign 

Found and easy solution to the sharp edge. It is selling on ebay. Simple to apply and looks good too. Search for: MacBook Pro 15" sharp edge adhesive strip.

Worst product name ever; searches on Google and Ebay yield nothing.

'Course, based on the highly descriptive product name, I'm assuming it's 2 pieces of scotch tape cut to about 5" and selling for about $15?

[aytes]

Ok, MacBook Air's edges are very sharp and that is a fact. As a designer I can understand the temptation to exaggerate the main feature of these super thin machines, but I also think it is a very immature design gesture. You can make a thin object without turning it into a health hazard. The obnoxious repetition of the ergonomics argument ignores the fact that no one gives Apple designers the privilege to punish their users if they don't discipline themselves to be in the perfect ergonomic position 24/7. I also don't get the suggestion of returning the product if one does not like it. Apple's design is not a god-sent decree, of course we, as users have the right to voice our concerns. And, if all these people have been complaining about the same thing there is an obvious problem here. It is not even something that can not be solved easily, but I guess the mere persistence on this absurd design quirk is just another instance of Apple's aloof technocratic attitude.