[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Just because you haven't yet left your mom's basement, it doesn't mean the rest of us haven't travelled the world.

By the time I was 5, I've lived in more countries than you probably have visited on a 'trip' or 'tour'.

Doofy thinks visiting the doctor makes him an expert on medicine.

Have you ever taken an ethnic studies course in the US?

We have US history and European History. What's wrong with taking Chicano studies or Native American History?

Most of the US after-all was occupied by Native Americans and Mexican descendants, before the Europeans started taking over.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

By the time I was 5, I've lived in more countries than you probably have visited on a 'trip' or 'tour'.

Ahh, military brat, eh? That explains a lot.

[andi*pandi]

Black History Month and Asian History Month, Women's History Month etc were created because at the time the history books ignored these segments, wrote them out, or didn't even think they were important enough to anyone. Racist, sexist, ignorant, or just the times they were in? Are we evolved past that point? I don't think so, if the Texas Board of Education is to be believed.

I think it's possible, useful, and interesting to have a study of all cultures intertwined like Doofy suggests (Mayan plumbing in engineering class, etc) but I know there's people out there who want to rewrite history again, and there's certainly small-minded people who don't give a rats @ss about the mayans.

Perhaps there's no room in our NCLB MCAS-test curriculum to fit all the culture we'd want anyhow.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Ahh, military brat, eh? That explains a lot.

No, refugee from a war torn country. Lived on boats. Lived in refugee camps. Sleeping in the same tent with other refugees. Not much to eat but salt water and rice. Sponsored here to the US by some good folks belonging to the Catholic Church.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

The point is that you'll never get rid of racism until you get rid of "ethnic studies".

Aztec sacrifices? Put that in with religious studies.

You want to get rid of ethnic studies, but you're perfectly fine with religious studies?

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

Are we evolved past that point? I don't think so, if the Texas Board of Education is to be believed.

That's an easy fix, just give them Moran Month... maybe in Smarch.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

By the time I was 5, I've lived in more countries than you probably have visited on a 'trip' or 'tour'.

So why didn't you stay there ?

-t

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

So why didn't you stay there ?

-t

Stay where? We were refugees. We weren't welcome. That's why.

Why didn't the Europeans stay in Europe? They were running away too. For what? Freedom.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

You want to get rid of ethnic studies, but you're perfectly fine with religious studies?

Where else would you put Aztec sacrifices? Home ec?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Stay where? We were refugees. We weren't welcome. That's why.

How much did you learn about the cultures of those countries you lived in before you were five?

And where are we talking? Africa, Central America or the Balkans?

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Why didn't the Europeans stay in Europe? They were running away too.

Not so. Only a few were running away. The rest were there to plunder resources.

[Railroader]

I'm half of European decent, and half Mexican (native) decent. I'm repressing myself!!!

But I do like the nice tan I get.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Where else would you put Aztec sacrifices? Home ec?

It's generally covered in World History, but not necessarily to the extent that some people want. Ethnic studies allows you, in addition to required course work, to delve into more detail about a particular culture.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

The law, which takes effect Dec. 31, bans classes that are designed for a particular ethnic group, promote overthrow of the U.S. government, foster resentment toward a particular race or class, or "advocate ethnic solidarity instead of the treatment of pupils as individuals."

Hats off once again to AZ. They've simply taken the P.C. stupidity cure, and are in many ways implementing common sense.

Really, there's a very simple test of if you're suffering from PC insanity or not:

A. Read the above statement, and if you feel your knee jerking up and hitting your chin, and you find yourself making emo-fueled rants about 'Nazis', 'fascism', 'boycotting AZ', whining about how one ethnic group or another can't possibly follow the above because of x y or z excuses for your own belief in their inferiority, etc. etc... then sorry. You're P.C. insane. If a cure is ever found, hopefully it won't be too late to save whatever is left of the still functional parts of your brain.

B. Read the above statement, and if you ask yourself, "Really? Things have gotten so crazy that we actually need a law over something so obvious; that just because you may be prone to leftwing poverty pimping, you can't teach kids to overthrow the US, foster resentment towards other races, and encourage race-based solidarity rather than educate individuals in public schools? A law stating something so blatantly obvious is even the slightest bit controversial- other than for being so obvious? Really?" ...then congrats: you're sane.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Does this black history month thingy include the fact that Africa invented slavery and the white man abolished it*?

Africa invented slavery? I'm pretty sure the time of this "invention" is lost in pre-history.

Originally Posted by Doofy 

The point is that you'll never get rid of racism until you get rid of "ethnic studies".

Racism far, far predates the existence of ethnic studies. Besides, the study of history almost always has strong ethnic content because, until heavy immigration in historically white countries, history=culture. When you study history, it is culturally differentiated, like Greek history or French history, or whatever. Now that we have many cultures co-existing with resistance against homogenization, ethnic studies is a way to preserve the classical method of history. Forget abandoning new ethnic studies: can you imagine the absurdity if ancient Greek, Roman, Egyptians, and Jewish history were smeared together as a kind of "Mediterranean history," without isolating cultural elements? Stupid.

Have you ever noticed how Jews tend to be well educated in their own culture and history? And that Jews tend to have strong family bonds and community networking? And that these links contribute to overall Jewish prosperity? Some other communities like Chinese and Italians also tend towards this.

On the other hand, shattered communities like blacks or Native peoples have far weaker social networks, weaker knowledge of their history, and poorer economic performance. Healing one part can contribute to healing the whole.

Originally Posted by Doofy 

And this is the problem - you know your ethnic makeup (probably) down to the sixteenth. Racism only goes away when people stop thinking of themselves as "half this, half that" - until such a point, people tend to use their ethnicity as a label, which self-alienates or alienates others.

Does this work when people also think of themselves as men or women? Or as Christian or Jew or whatever?

A person doesn't become a racist because they are knowledgeable about their cultural history.

Besides, you speak only for yourself. I don't feel alienated when someone tells me they are Serbo-Canadian or Jamaican-Canadian or whatever. I don't understand why you do.

I remember Stephen Colbert mocking this "color-blind" crap on his show. "I don't see race. I don't see gender either. Everyone is the same."

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Mayan bathrooms? Put that in with engineering history. Aztec sacrifices? Put that in with religious studies. Slavery? Put that in with political history.

Why break up the study of Aztec history like this? We don't study Roman history like this. It makes no sense at all. History is always studied with broad context and scope. You guys want to completely change the way history is studied?

Besides, often, history = culture = religion = politics. For the Aztecs or ancient Jews or ancient whatever, these things were interdependent. They didn't think in such compartmentalized ways. For instance, cultural eating practices were also religious food codes were also obligatory political laws. And don't you think the architecture of the Aztec temple state was related to the politics of perpetual warfare, which was related to human sacrifices, and so on?

You keep harping on the "political intent" behind ethnic history courses. But it is you who has political intent. You have a "political homogenization" goal, where people see themselves as "British" or "English" (or as unhyphenated Americans or Canadians or whatever). For some reason, you and others on the "right" see ethnic identities are inimical to your political purposes.

Might I suggest that people are entitled to see themselves however they want?

[CreepDogg]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Hats off once again to AZ. They've simply taken the P.C. stupidity cure, and are in many ways implementing common sense.

Really, there's a very simple test of if you're suffering from PC insanity or not:

A. Read the above statement, and if you feel your knee jerking up and hitting your chin, and you find yourself making emo-fueled rants about 'Nazis', 'fascism', 'boycotting AZ', whining about how one ethnic group or another can't possibly follow the above because of x y or z excuses for your own belief in their inferiority, etc. etc... then sorry. You're P.C. insane. If a cure is ever found, hopefully it won't be too late to save whatever is left of the still functional parts of your brain.

B. Read the above statement, and if you ask yourself, "Really? Things have gotten so crazy that we actually need a law over something so obvious; that just because you may be prone to leftwing poverty pimping, you can't teach kids to overthrow the US, foster resentment towards other races, and encourage race-based solidarity rather than educate individuals in public schools? A law stating something so blatantly obvious is even the slightest bit controversial- other than for being so obvious? Really?" ...then congrats: you're sane.

C. Read the above statement, and ask yourself: 'Why do we need a law that bans the spread of certain ideas? Sounds like someone is afraid of spreading ideas they don't agree with.' Congrats - you're asking the right question...

[hyteckit]

Seem pretty obvious that Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer is trying to suppress Latino votes during election year by creating a hostile environment for Latinos/Hispanics, hoping they'll leave Arizona.


Look at the 3 laws recently passed

1. Give police the power to harass anyone looking like an illegal immigrant, specifically Mexican looking
2. Ban teachers with heavy foreign accents, specifically Mexican accent
3. Ban ethnic studies, specifically Mexican-American studies

[besson3c]

Anything that encourages an awareness and education of other cultures is alright in my book, including ethnic studies. We need this, we are an extremely insular society with a very narrow view of the world.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by CreepDogg 

C. Read the above statement, and ask yourself: 'Why do we need a law that bans the spread of certain ideas? (Then realize you can't read as a result of said knee hitting chin, and refer back to your actual answer: A.)

Like I said, maybe someday there will be a cure.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Like I said, maybe someday there will be a cure.

I wouldn't be putting money on that if I were you.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Wait. Aren't you all being oppressed by a black fella at the moment?

That might be the case if we had a silly hat wearing queen as head of state despite us never having consented to that. You seem to have forgotten that we actually have the right to determine our president ourselves. That black fella was elected to lead our country. Now sit back down and shut up, subject.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Anything that encourages an awareness and education of other cultures is alright in my book, including ethnic studies. We need this, we are an extremely insular society with a very narrow view of the world.

I'll second this.

Bottom line education can solve problems.

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

You're right, if we stop talking about obvious cultural differences they'll just cease to exist.

Like black kids calling themselves "African-Americans" that have never been to Africa? So lets keep coming up with reasons to put people in little categories so liberals can know the difference. This is just a propaganda method to split along racial lines. How is it productive?

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Seem pretty obvious that Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer is trying to suppress Latino votes during election year by creating a hostile environment for Latinos/Hispanics, hoping they'll leave Arizona.


Look at the 3 laws recently passed

1. Give police the power to harass anyone looking like an illegal immigrant, specifically Mexican looking
2. Ban teachers with heavy foreign accents, specifically Mexican accent
3. Ban ethnic studies, specifically Mexican-American studies

Forgot about that detail of being ILLEGAL?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Heaven forbid that kids are taught to be just Americans.

Translation: Heaven forbid kids be brainwashed with information other than the information *you* want them brainwashed with.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

But of course, what they're not telling you is that the preservation of racism is a political thing - there's a whole industry (and some political parties) out there built up around the expectation of racism. When the expectation doesn't materialise, then hey, they have to generate some more.

This I will agree with completely. Most major political parties exploit racism to their fullest advantage.

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Translation: Heaven forbid kids be brainwashed with information other than the information *you* want them brainwashed with.

You mean instead of the social engineering the libs have been doing for 40 years and test scores keep going down as little Johnny feels better about himself and grows up to be a clueless liberal stooge who wants the Government to take care of him? CA is a prime example of the failed liberal policies and such, where the bleeding hearts have bankrupt the state and allows the illegals to drain the bucks. ILL has the same problems with liberal corruption and unions.

[CreepDogg]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Like I said, maybe someday there will be a cure.

The cure will be worse than the disease...

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

You mean instead of the social engineering the libs have been doing for 40 years

You say that as if the Conservatives don't engage in a massive amount of social engineering themselves.

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

grows up to be a clueless liberal stooge who wants the Government to take care of him?

You say *that* as if it's better or different to grow up to be a clueless conservative stooge who wants the Government to take care of you.

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

You say that as if the Conservatives don't engage in a massive amount of social engineering themselves.

Like patriotism?

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

You say *that* as if it's better or different to grow up to be a clueless conservative stooge who wants the Government to take care of you.

Except conservatives don't want to be taken care of by the government.

[OAW]

Arizona Republicans are really showing their true colors lately it seems.

But regarding the topic at hand .... it might be helpful to put a few facts on the table.

1. "Ethnic studies", "Black History Month", "Asian History Month, "Women's Studies", etc. exist for a simple reason. Public school curricula across the country focus almost exclusively on the culture and history of males of European ancestry.

2. Simply because a right-wing politician pandering to the conservative vote during an election cycle characterizes such programs as "teaching Latinos that they are oppressed by white people" ... that doesn't make it so.

3. The purpose of an "ethnic studies" course is to focus on the culture and history of a particular ethnic group from the perspective of said ethnic group. It's a course that treats said ethnic group as the subject in its activities on the world stage ... and not merely the object of interactions with Europeans.

The bottom line here is that what something is called and what it actually is can be two different things. Again, in the overwhelming majority of school curriculums in the US it might be called "American History" ... but it's really "History of Americans of European ancestry". You might get a blurb here and there about slavery, MLK and the civil rights movement, and George Washington Carver and a peanut .... but 99% of the subject matter is about white people. It might be called "American Literature" but it's really "European-American Literature". You will learn about Ralph Waldo Emerson, Henry David Thoreau, Ernest Hemingway, William Faulkner, Mark Twain, etc. ... but coverage of Langston Hughes, Rudolfo Anaya, Richard Wright, Americo Paredes, Toni Morrisson, Sandra Cisneros, Ralph Ellison, etc. is scant at best ... and (typically) non-existent at worst. That is the undeniable track record of American education.

Many of our good friends on the right say things along the line of ....

Originally Posted by BadKosh

Heaven forbid that kids are taught to be just Americans.

To that I will simply say ... the day you guys start getting half as worked up about the fact that the coverage of non-white people in "American" history, literature, art, etc. courses is a far cry from being proportional to the American population and actively work to change it ... that'll be the day I say that "ethnic studies" are no longer needed. Until then ....

OAW

[besson3c]

Some of the comments in this thread are frankly disgraceful, an embarrassment to this country, and for those of you who are Christians, an embarassment to Christianity.

Jesus Christ was a teacher of compassion and respect, was he not? As the Dalai Lama would say, the power of the gun and the power of money is quite evident in this world, but what about the power of compassion and respect?

Let's just cut to the chase, behind many of these comments is an underlying xenophobia, a sense of feeling threatened, and a sense of intolerance. Wanting to celebrate or lift up other cultures which get second or third billing in this country is not a threat to you in any way, your sense of compassion and respect for ideas and beliefs that differ from yours should override all else.

Why are Americans and some Christians so damn selfish? My wife is following a conversation on Facebook where a bunch of Christians are freaking out because a private company that provides food to seniors is not allowing Christian prayer before meals as a form of legal protection for themselves. Why do so many people play this pseudo-oppression card and practice such disrespect towards anybody else that might want a different prayer or no prayer at all just because this is America? Is Christianity really about "this is just the way it is, and if you don't like it get the hell outta here?" Is America really about this sort of attitude? Why do people demand this sort of respect and adherence to their ways when they offer so little respect in return?

It's the same sort of thing with this legislation and some of the comments here. There is nothing wrong with encouraging mutual respect and understanding of other cultures and belief system. In fact, I would argue that this is exactly what Jesus would want, what is best for America, and what is best for humanity. It's not like white Christians or white Americans are actually being oppressed in any imaginable way, despite their rhetoric.

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by OAW 

To that I will simply say ... the day you guys start getting half as worked up about the fact that the coverage of non-white people in "American" history, literature, art, etc. courses is a far cry from being proportional to the American population and actively work to change it ... that'll be the day I say that "ethnic studies" are no longer needed. Until then ....

OAW

Why start off with RACIST comments. Why are you offended by the accomplishments of white people? How many months do we have to hear about non-whites accomplishments? How about Americans accomplishments and forget the racist BS??

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by OAW 

To that I will simply say ... the day you guys start getting half as worked up about the fact that the coverage of non-white people in "American" history, literature, art, etc. courses is a far cry from being proportional to the American population and actively work to change it ... that'll be the day I say that "ethnic studies" are no longer needed. Until then ....

Let's keep Black History month, but also introduce White History month, German History month, Irish History month, Italian History month, Polish History month etc...

Only the French won't get it

-t

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Why start off with RACIST comments. Why are you offended by the accomplishments of white people? How many months do we have to hear about non-whites accomplishments? How about Americans accomplishments and forget the racist BS??

What are you afraid of, dude? Why do you feel threatened? There is no reason why we can't celebrate the accomplishment of people in general. Nobody is proposing that we *replace* any historical understanding of American accomplishments with non-American accomplishments, and I think you know that.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Let's keep Black History month, but also introduce White History month, German History month, Irish History month, Italian History month, Polish History month etc...

Only the French won't get it

-t

If this means that we collectively become less ignorant and more respectful of other cultures, I'm in favor of this! Why shouldn't we?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

What are you afraid of, dude? Why do you feel threatened? There is no reason why we can't celebrate the accomplishment of people in general. Nobody is proposing that we *replace* any historical understanding of American accomplishments with non-American accomplishments, and I think you know that.

Besson, you really need to stop projecting.

Not everyone makes comments because they are afraid of sth.

But thanks for sharing the inner workings of yours.

-t

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

If this means that we collectively become less ignorant and more respectful of other cultures, I'm in favor of this! Why shouldn't we?

Well, to be honest, I don't think that a *class* will really achieve a lot in people becoming more respectful of other cultures.

Try working, studying or traveling abroad. Much more effective.

-t

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Well, to be honest, I don't think that a *class* will really achieve a lot in people becoming more respectful of other cultures.

Try working, studying or traveling abroad. Much more effective.

-t

Sure it is much more effective, but there is nothing wrong with trying to plant a seed by promoting a cultural and worldly awareness in a very general way. It can't hurt... What is the downside to there being some sort of venue for celebrating all of the cultures you have listed and more?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Besson, you really need to stop projecting.

Not everyone makes comments because they are afraid of sth.

But thanks for sharing the inner workings of yours.

-t

What is "sth"? Sorry, I'm not following.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Why start off with RACIST comments. Why are you offended by the accomplishments of white people? How many months do we have to hear about non-whites accomplishments? How about Americans accomplishments and forget the racist BS??

Why start off with a STRAW MAN argument? When you can show me anywhere in this thread where I said or implied that I was "offended" by the accomplishments of white people then you might have some semblance of a point.

Again ... my point was that "American" encompasses more than just white people. The point was that "American" history, literature, etc. course should be inclusive of ALL Americans. And the inclusion of non-white ethnic groups should be IN ADDITION TO .... not INSTEAD OF. I really fail to see what's so difficult to comprehend about this for you.

But in all honesty, I really don't expect you to respond with anything substantive. Unfortunately, your reaction is fairly typical of our good friends on the right. Rather than address the merits of what I said (i.e. "American" history, literature, etc. is typically "European-American" history, literature, etc.) ... instead the tactic is to label the mere mentioning of this reality as "racist" and attempt to dismiss it out of hand. That's the laughable thing about conservative thinking on these topics. The structure and design of such courses (over the last couple of centuries) that focus almost exclusively on those of European ancestry ... that's not "racist". It doesn't seem to be an issue for you at all. But simply pointing out that this is, in fact, the case is the thing that is "racist" in your mind. And this is WHY your "How about American accomplishments ..." comment rings hollow to anyone who doesn't share this delusional thinking.

OAW

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Try working, studying or traveling abroad. Much more effective.

-t

Probably because it much much harder and more expensive than just taking a class in high school.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Not me.
But what I think it does do is creates a division and implies difference. Look at the model subego linked to:

Why do latino students need a "latino academic identity"? Are they subnormal and can't get through school otherwise? Why do "latino students and students of color" need what amounts to a remedial course to achieve "the same quality of educational sovereignty afforded Anglo students"?

All this just sets up a "you're special" mindset within the target demographic. Whether that's "special" as in "better" or "special" as in sitting next to hyteckit on the shorter bus, it's a form of racism. Leads to division. Not good.

I don't think the text you quoted means what you think it means. Acknowledging difference is not the same as promoting intolerance or a victim mentality. OAW explained it as well as I can two posts above this one.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

What is "sth"? Sorry, I'm not following.

SOMETHING [allcaps]

-t

[finboy]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Doofy thinks visiting the doctor makes him an expert on medicine.

And you seem to think that living in other countries makes you an expert on propaganda and political indoctrination, even in your Mom's basement.

When the curriculum for the high school "ethnic studies" class comes from La Raza, we got problems. Heck, I gotta problem if it's just "approved" by those racist f*cks. Kind of like the KKK writing the US History curriculum (which I'm sure they did, and which I'm sure they don't anymore because of the obvious conflict of interest there, plus, they're racist f*cks and we don't let them propagandize their bullsh*t either).

Let's be plain here: sedition is a criminal act. I think the AZ legislature could probably go a bit further if they wanted to, but asking people to stop is a nice way to handle it. At some point, once people have exhausted their nice ways to handle things, it gets ugly. The kind of ugly that doesn't use swastikas made of Rosarita's on state property. And it won't come from a state legislature. If people can't start cleaning up their act and rejecting violence on all sides, it's not going to be fun to watch.

And as for "it begins..."

It began a long time ago. This stuff didn't pop up overnight. There's an established power base of folks who think that telling people about their "heritage" and leaving out the bad stuff is good for politics. These folks keep their constituencies ignorant on purpose, and fight assimilation, and fight border security, and fight anything that could in any way reduce their power through fear.

The residents of AZ don't need to be scared -- they understand the problem. People in Texas see it daily. I'm sure that people in Cali see it too, but they must look the other way or something (or live far, far away from the issue). The border is a legitimate issue for a lot of folks, but there is no incentive for anyone to solve the problem, because BOTH SIDES benefit from talking about it. They use it to raise money. And they will continue to do so until it blows up in their faces.

The astroturfing of the last few months doesn't help anything. It's been so damned obvious though, that maybe it's opened some eyes. Bussing people in to protest in AZ, for example. Calls from the LA city council to "ban Arizona". What tripe.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by OAW 

To that I will simply say ... the day you guys start getting half as worked up about the fact that the coverage of non-white people in "American" history, literature, art, etc. courses is a far cry from being proportional to the American population and actively work to change it ... that'll be the day I say that "ethnic studies" are no longer needed. Until then ....

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Why start off with RACIST comments. Why are you offended by the accomplishments of white people? How many months do we have to hear about non-whites accomplishments? How about Americans accomplishments and forget the racist BS??

OAW said NOTHING racist in the statement you quoted.

And he makes a valid point, namely that the majority of Americans never complained when "American History" was essentially the history of wealthy white men of European descent. No one ever complained when "American History" left out the voices of the poor white men, all the white women, and the people of color that helped make this country great. It was after white women and people of color started to complain about their absence in "American History" that their stories were (grudgingly, at first) included in what constitutes "American History". And this doesn't even begin to address the void in "American History" where the stories of Native American history should reside.

The history of this country cannot be told accurately and honestly WITHOUT including the history of ALL ITS PEOPLE. That means the history of its white people (of every class and sex), the history of America's peoples of color, and the history of America's native peoples who were here already when the Europeans arrived. That can be the only complete, accurate, and honest "American History". If you don't want "American History" to be comprised of the history of all its peoples, that is fine. But don't suggest that a desire for a complete, accurate history of America and her peoples is somehow wrong or inappropriate.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by finboy 

And you seem to think that living in other countries makes you an expert on propaganda and political indoctrination, even in your Mom's basement.

When the curriculum for the high school "ethnic studies" class comes from La Raza, we got problems. Heck, I gotta problem if it's just "approved" by those racist f*cks. Kind of like the KKK writing the US History curriculum (which I'm sure they did, and which I'm sure they don't anymore because of the obvious conflict of interest there, plus, they're racist f*cks and we don't let them propagandize their bullsh*t either).

Let's be plain here: sedition is a criminal act. I think the AZ legislature could probably go a bit further if they wanted to, but asking people to stop is a nice way to handle it. At some point, once people have exhausted their nice ways to handle things, it gets ugly. The kind of ugly that doesn't use swastikas made of Rosarita's on state property. And it won't come from a state legislature. If people can't start cleaning up their act and rejecting violence on all sides, it's not going to be fun to watch.

And as for "it begins..."

It began a long time ago. This stuff didn't pop up overnight. There's an established power base of folks who think that telling people about their "heritage" and leaving out the bad stuff is good for politics. These folks keep their constituencies ignorant on purpose, and fight assimilation, and fight border security, and fight anything that could in any way reduce their power through fear.

The residents of AZ don't need to be scared -- they understand the problem. People in Texas see it daily. I'm sure that people in Cali see it too, but they must look the other way or something (or live far, far away from the issue). The border is a legitimate issue for a lot of folks, but there is no incentive for anyone to solve the problem, because BOTH SIDES benefit from talking about it. They use it to raise money. And they will continue to do so until it blows up in their faces.

The astroturfing of the last few months doesn't help anything. It's been so damned obvious though, that maybe it's opened some eyes. Bussing people in to protest in AZ, for example. Calls from the LA city council to "ban Arizona". What tripe.

Let me guess. You have never taken an ethnic studies course.

All your information comes from the internet while surfing from your mom's basement since you are such as expert on mom's basement.

La Raza are racist f*cks?

I grew up in a neighborhood called 'Plaza de La Raza'. You are comparing the term 'La Raza' with the KKK?

Seriously, what the f*ck are you talking about you ignorant fool. Seriously, you have to leave your mom's basement.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by finboy 

And you seem to think that living in other countries makes you an expert on propaganda and political indoctrination, even in your Mom's basement.

When the curriculum for the high school "ethnic studies" class comes from La Raza, we got problems. Heck, I gotta problem if it's just "approved" by those racist f*cks. Kind of like the KKK writing the US History curriculum (which I'm sure they did, and which I'm sure they don't anymore because of the obvious conflict of interest there, plus, they're racist f*cks and we don't let them propagandize their bullsh*t either).

Let's be plain here: sedition is a criminal act. I think the AZ legislature could probably go a bit further if they wanted to, but asking people to stop is a nice way to handle it. At some point, once people have exhausted their nice ways to handle things, it gets ugly. The kind of ugly that doesn't use swastikas made of Rosarita's on state property. And it won't come from a state legislature. If people can't start cleaning up their act and rejecting violence on all sides, it's not going to be fun to watch.

And as for "it begins..."

It began a long time ago. This stuff didn't pop up overnight. There's an established power base of folks who think that telling people about their "heritage" and leaving out the bad stuff is good for politics. These folks keep their constituencies ignorant on purpose, and fight assimilation, and fight border security, and fight anything that could in any way reduce their power through fear.

The residents of AZ don't need to be scared -- they understand the problem. People in Texas see it daily. I'm sure that people in Cali see it too, but they must look the other way or something (or live far, far away from the issue). The border is a legitimate issue for a lot of folks, but there is no incentive for anyone to solve the problem, because BOTH SIDES benefit from talking about it. They use it to raise money. And they will continue to do so until it blows up in their faces.

The astroturfing of the last few months doesn't help anything. It's been so damned obvious though, that maybe it's opened some eyes. Bussing people in to protest in AZ, for example. Calls from the LA city council to "ban Arizona". What tripe.

How does promoting an awareness of other cultures through ethnic studies equate to racism? You lost me there...

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by finboy 

Let's be plain here: sedition is a criminal act. I think the AZ legislature could probably go a bit further if they wanted to, but asking people to stop is a nice way to handle it. At some point, once people have exhausted their nice ways to handle things, it gets ugly. The kind of ugly that doesn't use swastikas made of Rosarita's on state property. And it won't come from a state legislature. If people can't start cleaning up their act and rejecting violence on all sides, it's not going to be fun to watch.

Sedition is a criminal act, so lets put all tea party members such as yourself in jail.

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by OAW 

Why start off with a STRAW MAN argument? When you can show me anywhere in this thread where I said or implied that I was "offended" by the accomplishments of white people then you might have some semblance of a point.

Again ... my point was that "American" encompasses more than just white people. The point was that "American" history, literature, etc. course should be inclusive of ALL Americans. And the inclusion of non-white ethnic groups should be IN ADDITION TO .... not INSTEAD OF. I really fail to see what's so difficult to comprehend about this for you.

But in all honesty, I really don't expect you to respond with anything substantive. Unfortunately, your reaction is fairly typical of our good friends on the right. Rather than address the merits of what I said (i.e. "American" history, literature, etc. is typically "European-American" history, literature, etc.) ... instead the tactic is to label the mere mentioning of this reality as "racist" and attempt to dismiss it out of hand. That's the laughable thing about conservative thinking on these topics. The structure and design of such courses (over the last couple of centuries) that focus almost exclusively on those of European ancestry ... that's not "racist". It doesn't seem to be an issue for you at all. But simply pointing out that this is, in fact, the case is the thing that is "racist" in your mind. And this is WHY your "How about American accomplishments ..." comment rings hollow to anyone who doesn't share this delusional thinking.

OAW

By and large, the original US was mostly White Europeans and by percentage were the one mostly responsible for the progress and success of the US. Adding that a Black man did X and an Asian woman did Y etc is interjecting race. Adding in the Race or culture doesn't change what they did. It's you that is delusional. Don't try to add any more than what I stated.