[dtriska]

I'm really looking forward to VPC 7: http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=453

[itai195]

Originally posted by CatOne:
Word's note taking view is pretty simplistic... it will work for checklists and general outlines though.

But it absolutely pales in comparison to "good" notebook software -- I've been using Circus Ponies Notebook for a few months and it is GREAT. You can store anything in it, and it scales to very large docs, because it just stores everything in a package (like a .app folder), rather than tries to stuff it in its own format.

Thanks for the info and the app suggestion! I've tried other notetaking apps on the Mac, but this one looks like it might have most of the One Note features I like, so I'll give it a shot. Word 2004 looks like it might be adequate though.

[voodoo]

Strangely no mention of Office 2004 being released on www.microsoft.com/mac/



Just links to Office V.x and Office 2004 pre-orders.

[MartiNZ]

Yes, I noticed that too. And I'm told that it will be getting to New Zealand in about two weeks - maybe they're waiting until the release is a bit more widespread anyway?

[threestain]

So people who have started to receive it - is it worth the �100 to get a nice shiny new academic version? How much do I lose from the pro version this time round? A general consensus would be cool.

Thanks

[deharlow]

Originally posted by Basilisk:
Anyone care to comment on Entourage's Junk Filter? I'm hoping that they've added a Bayesian filter, but the limited screenshots I've seen make it appear they haven't done much at all in this area.

If they haven't improved it, can someone check to see if the new Entourage removes the limitation that AppleScript execution in a rule forces the "Ignore further rules" option? At least with this limitation removed the outboard junk filters (SpamSieve, etc.) become more useful.

Thanks,

Alex

The junk mail filter is much improved catching all pieces that used to get through on v.X. You can also now load images for a specific email by clicking a button.

I am not sure how to check the Applescript issue.

Daniel

[JasonKe]

Threestain- there's no difference in functionality between Office 2004 standard edition and the academic edition. It's all in there!

[AJ]

Originally posted by JasonKe:
Threestain- there's no difference in functionality between Office 2004 standard edition and the academic edition. It's all in there!

...apart from the lack of Virtual PC! So there is a difference...

[FL!PNEUS]

Originally posted by AJ:
...apart from the lack of Virtual PC! So there is a difference...

Standard doesn't and won't have Virtual PC. The Professional version does though, that's why it's delayed.

[typoon]

Well I bought my copy from the Apple Store lastnight. So far i must say that I'm impressed. It loads MUCH faster than previous versions. Also the new install wizard is pretty slick. I'll take some images of it later today. This hasn't been mentioned yet, but the Academic version allows for 3 legal installs. While the Standard only allows for 1. The other thing I noticed is that you don't need to be an educator or student to buy the Student/Teacher version. You an pick it up right at the store and they don't ask fro ID. I did that. I paid 149 for 3 legal installs and saved almost 200 dollars to boot. Why pay 399 for the standard when you can get the Student Teacher version for less money and get more legal installs? It's the same version as the Standard.

I haven't really put it through it's paces yet but so far it seems pretty good. now i think it's time to really learn how to use it.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by typoon:
Well I bought my copy from the Apple Store lastnight. So far i must say that I'm impressed. It loads MUCH faster than previous versions. Also the new install wizard is pretty slick. I'll take some images of it later today. This hasn't been mentioned yet, but the Academic version allows for 3 legal installs. While the Standard only allows for 1. The other thing I noticed is that you don't need to be an educator or student to buy the Student/Teacher version. You an pick it up right at the store and they don't ask fro ID. I did that. I paid 149 for 3 legal installs and saved almost 200 dollars to boot. Why pay 399 for the standard when you can get the Student Teacher version for less money and get more legal installs? It's the same version as the Standard.

I haven't really put it through it's paces yet but so far it seems pretty good. now i think it's time to really learn how to use it.

I haven't heard one bad thing about this upgrade.

Not very M$ like

[bbales]

My upgrade arrived from amazon.com today! I'm hoping it lives up to the advance billing.

[alex_kac]

I can't find ANY info on how to get the free upgrade. Any links?

[deharlow]

Originally posted by alex_kac:
I can't find ANY info on how to get the free upgrade. Any links?

Let me introduce you to the power of Google.

http://www.google.com/search?q=office+2004+free+upgrade

Daniel

Just In Case the first hit should be to

http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...tee-Coupon.pdf

[tkmd]

Just a quick question - I am interested in buying the student teacher edition from Aples website. Is there any difference in what you get with the student /teacher package compared to the standard package (outside cost?). Maybe I will "do the right thing and buy it ( if it is truley better than OfficeX.v)

[crabuback]

Originally posted by tkmd:
Just a quick question - I am interested in buying the student teacher edition from Aples website. Is there any difference in what you get with the student /teacher package compared to the standard package (outside cost?). Maybe I will "do the right thing and buy it ( if it is truley better than OfficeX.v)

Note: Parents of students that are minors are eligible to purchase the Academic version. Says so right on the box.

[typoon]

Originally posted by tkmd:
Just a quick question - I am interested in buying the student teacher edition from Aples website. Is there any difference in what you get with the student /teacher package compared to the standard package (outside cost?). Maybe I will "do the right thing and buy it ( if it is truley better than OfficeX.v)

It is truely better than Office v.X. That i can say for sure so far at least. Overall it loads MUCH faster, Seems more OS X like. There is NO difference between the Standard and the Student/Teacher one except for the packaging and cost. Also the other Main difference is that the Student/Teacher one allows for 3 legal installs while the Standard only allows for 1.

[bbales]

Started to install yesterday, but stopped. My existing database for entourage is 718 MB, which is, let's face it, kind of large. The installer wants to import that, so I'd require ANOTHER 718 MB, plus the space needed for the install, leaving me kind of short of space. So I'm trying to decide if I should just create a new identity, instead. What are people doing?

Hmmm, now that I think this through a little more clearly, I can probably kill the OLD database after I get the new one (and back it up, too().

ANyway, just wondering how people are handling that aspect.

And I must also add that the package has a ridiculous amount of excess packaging. It may look cool, but it's terrible for the environment. (and now, I'll get off my soapbox.)

[typoon]

Originally posted by bbales:
Started to install yesterday, but stopped. My existing database for entourage is 718 MB, which is, let's face it, kind of large. The installer wants to import that, so I'd require ANOTHER 718 MB, plus the space needed for the install, leaving me kind of short of space. So I'm trying to decide if I should just create a new identity, instead. What are people doing?

Hmmm, now that I think this through a little more clearly, I can probably kill the OLD database after I get the new one (and back it up, too().

ANyway, just wondering how people are handling that aspect.

And I must also add that the package has a ridiculous amount of excess packaging. It may look cool, but it's terrible for the environment. (and now, I'll get off my soapbox.)

I think you can just install it let it use the 718 MB that it needs. The delete the old version of office. that should give you back the 718 megs you had before. I know that when I installed it didn't get rid of my old version of Office so I had to delete it manually.

[mbryda]

Originally posted by typoon:
Also the other Main difference is that the Student/Teacher one allows for 3 legal installs while the Standard only allows for 1.

Can you still legally desktop/laptop install with the Standard version?

[typoon]

Originally posted by mbryda:
Can you still legally desktop/laptop install with the Standard version?

You never could before. Well you could but not have them running at the same time. I believe the standard is the same way.

[bbales]

Originally posted by typoon:
I think you can just install it let it use the 718 MB that it needs. The delete the old version of office. that should give you back the 718 megs you had before. I know that when I installed it didn't get rid of my old version of Office so I had to delete it manually.

Thanks. And I forgot I could delete the whole application as well.

(And I keep debating dropping entourage completely and just using "mail," but haven't made that decision yet. This might be the time.

[typoon]

Originally posted by bbales:
Thanks. And I forgot I could delete the whole application as well.

(And I keep debating dropping entourage completely and just using "mail," but haven't made that decision yet. This might be the time.

Well the new Entourage looks pretty slick. I like Mail too much to switch back to enoturage. The only reason I might use it is for the Exchange server we have here in the office. It would make it one less App I need to use on my PC.

[mbryda]

Originally posted by typoon:
You never could before. Well you could but not have them running at the same time. I believe the standard is the same way.

Yes you could. Do it all the time with the wife's iBook and my iMac. This is with Office X and latest service packs. I leave most of the office apps open all the time and she never has issues with it.

[typ993]

I haven't heard one bad thing about this upgrade.

Aside from the fact that Excel is a third slower when crunching a lot of numbers�

[His Dudeness]

Originally posted by tkmd:
Just a quick question - I am interested in buying the student teacher edition from Aples website. Is there any difference in what you get with the student /teacher package compared to the standard package (outside cost?). Maybe I will "do the right thing and buy it ( if it is truley better than OfficeX.v)

I bought the student and teacher edition at Compusa. What a deal. I saved myself a few hundred on that purchase. Just enough to get me that cable internet modem/wireless router...

There's no difference in the student/teacher edition. It's all in there except Virtual PC.

[weldon]

Technically, I think the difference is that the Student/Teacher Edition isn't eligible for upgrade pricing to Pro (or Standard). Considering that the Standard Edition upgrade costs more than the full price for the Student Edition, I think it would be silly to do anything but buy the full Student Edition (for personal use) each time if you're happy with the feature set.

[rytc]

Does Word still uses 10-30% of the CPU whilst doing nothing in the background?
Does Endnote still cause Word to constantly beachball while editing documents, when Instant Formatting is activated in the CWYW prefs? (I'm not sure if this is a Word problem or due to a crappily written Endnote plugin)

Thanks

[RooneyX]

If VPC7 really does use a Macs graphic card I'll eat my balls.

Just installed the Office demo. Mostly gettiing spinning wheels here and there and it slowed my system down. Huh.

[DigitalEl]

[shallow question]

Does this version of Office theme correctly when using ShapeShifter or is it still chock-full of custom MS widgets and buttons that stay the same no matter what .theme you're using?

[/shallow question]

[typoon]

Originally posted by weldon:
Technically, I think the difference is that the Student/Teacher Edition isn't eligible for upgrade pricing to Pro (or Standard). Considering that the Standard Edition upgrade costs more than the full price for the Student Edition, I think it would be silly to do anything but buy the full Student Edition (for personal use) each time if you're happy with the feature set.

Yes but for the price of the upgrade you can buy almost 2 copies of Student teacher and have 6 serial numbers to boot. Student Teacher comes with 3 legal Serials. The Standard and the upgrade only come with one.

Same program, More money, less legal installs or Same Program, less money, 3 legal installs. No Brainer to me.

[eggman]

OK, here's my biggest pet peeve with Entourage v.X, and I'd really love to know if they have it fixed in 2004.

I'm a graphics professional, so I commonly have a fair number of fonts activated. In Entourage v.X fonts are selected from a drop-down list when composing HTML email, and it shows every variant of every font on it's own line.

I end up scrolling and scrolling through the regular, bold, bold condensed, bold condensed italic, extended, bold extended, bold extended italic (and on and on...) versions of each typeface... and that's a drag (literally!)

There's no option to start typing the font name into a text field (and having it auto-complete would be a nice touch, too...). There's no option to use Apple's standard font picker, which is much smarter in organizing typefaces and styles.

And about 30% of the time, I'll click on the font drop-down list, and the damn thing crashes. Hell, I use a font manager: I don't have thousands of fonts active... but with Entourage's simple/stupid way of listing fonts with each and every style separately, it sometimes feels like I do!

Before the inevitable critiques regarding use/misuse of HTML mail start in, I'll try to pre-empt them.

Yes, I know that HTML text only can be displayed in the fonts that the recipient has installed. I understand HTML very well: I've been a web designer for the past 7 years. Still, it's a long scroll to go from Times to Arial. In fact, if Entourage just added the 5 most frequently selected fonts in a sub-list at the top of the picker, like Word does, I'd virtually never have to leave that 'recently-used' list.

And, yes... I know that a lot of email clients have problems with HTML email. I know enough to peek at the X-Mailer header of an email message from a friend or client to determine if their mail app can deal reasonably with HTML.

So... it would be lovely if I could select a font without scrolling through a list of 256 items for 8 different variations of 36 Adobe fonts I have installed!

[mbryda]

Originally posted by typoon:
Yes but for the price of the upgrade you can buy almost 2 copies of Student teacher and have 6 serial numbers to boot. Student Teacher comes with 3 legal Serials. The Standard and the upgrade only come with one.

Same program, More money, less legal installs or Same Program, less money, 3 legal installs. No Brainer to me.

Actually, if you have no kids in school ands use it for business, S&T is not legal.

[typoon]

Originally posted by mbryda:
Actually, if you have no kids in school ands use it for business, S&T is not legal.

true, while for business this probably wouldn't be a good idea. For every home user it would be fine.

[rytc]

Originally posted by eggman:
OK, here's my biggest pet peeve with Entourage v.X, and I'd really love to know if they have it fixed in 2004.


There's no option to start typing the font name into a text field (and having it auto-complete would be a nice touch, too...). There's no option to use Apple's standard font picker, which is much smarter in organizing typefaces and styles.

I just downloaded the Test Drive and looking at that it would appear that nothing has changed, all variants of a font are listed and you can't type in the font name either.

In relation to my earlier question, yes it does still eat up CPU when sitting in the background with no open windows and actually seems worse than Word v.X was. To be perfectly honest it doesn't look the slightest bit different to Word v.X, feels slower on my iBook, EndNote 7 doesn't even work in it, so unless there's some feature you must have, I wouldn't bother paying to upgrade, I highly doubt any bug-fixing or optimisiation was done on the code either.

[Spliff]

Over at ArsTechnica forums, a software test engineer from MacBU is talking about the changes and fixes they made to Office for Mac. He's even answering questions.

Greetings folks!

My name is Gerald Pogue, and I work at Microsoft in the Macintosh Business Unit. I am a Software Test Engineer on Microsoft Word for the Macintosh.

I have seen a few posts, where people are wondering what exactly are our new features for Word 2004. I thought I would just spell them out for you all, since a few of you believe there are not any knew ones.

Unicode Support - We support thousands of glyphs now, including double byte and byte and a half glyphs. Because of that, we added several new fonts that support hundreds of Unicode glyphs

Improved Compatibility with Win Word - We changed the way we lay out lines to be more compatible with Win Word. We now use the exact same engine they do. We also update our default font to Times New Roman, the same font Win Word uses. This is a new version of Times New Roman though, one that supports hundreds of Unicode glyphs.

Improved Track Changes - We totally revamped the Track Changes functionality in Word 2004. We added comment balloons, and the ability to accept or reject a change by clicking on a button in that balloon. Also, if the reviewer is a MSN Messenger contact, then a Messenger icon will appear in the balloon, allowing you to quickly start a conversation with that person.

Improved Styles - We did a total Styles overhaul in Word 2004. We added Table and List Styles, and redid the interface to create and apply new Styles. There is now a Styles Pane in the formatting palette, that can quickly and easily allow you to apply or update new styles.

Navigation Pane - Need to quickly search through your document, the Navigation Pane helps you by showing thumbnails of each page in your document in a Pane located on the left side of your document. You can also switch it back to the old Document Map view if you perfer to navigate through your document based on Style information

Paste Options Buttons - Tired of having to go to the Paste Special Menu to get your pasted text to paste correctly? The Paste Options buttons now allows you to adjust your paste quickly and easily. We have many different options based on what you are pasting. For example, pasting Text, we offer to Match the destination Formatting, Keep Original Formatting, or just paste it as plain text. Paste a List below another list, and we offer to merge the lists, or keep the lists seperate. Paste a table inside another table, and the options are to Paste as a Nested Table, Paste as new Rows, or overwrite the current cells. Paste an Excel Chart in Word, and we offer to Paste as a Picture, Link the Chart to the Workbook, or embedd the Chart as an Excel Object into Word.

IntelliSense Recovery Options - Hate it when Word does something you don't want it to do? IntelliSense Recovery helps you control what you want Word to do, and what you don't by providing an On Object UI over the text that was changed. For Exmple, if you type "Teh" and hit return, Word will AutoCorrect to "The". We will also briefly draw a blue underline under that word. Click or hover over that Word, and we will draw an On Object UI. From there, you can either undo the correction, stop Word from ever making that change again, or get a quick link to the AutoCorrect Preferences.

Create HTML Emails in Word - Word 2004 allows you to createrich HTML emails using Word's advanced editing tools, and then send that HTML mail through Entourage. To do this, create your mail in Word, then go to File | Send To | Mail Recipient (as HTML)
Word Speak - Word Speak returns in Word 2004. Word will now read out your selected text. This is great as a proof reading tool. This is availble from the Speach Toolbar
Add Objects Pane - Quickly add objects such as Date/Time/Author fields, pre-formatted tables, symbols, Escher drawing objects, lines, or text boxes and Word art to your document via the Add Objects pane in the Formatting Palette

Compatibility Report - Check your document for potential cross platform or backwards compatibility problems. Just specifiy which version of Word you want to check for, and hit the "Check Document" button. We will tell you what could be problems, and help you fix it. If Word notices you adding something that maybe incompatible, we will flash the toolbox button red.

Reference Pane - Also in the Toolbox, you have the Reference Pane. This pane is the new home of the Dictionary and the Thesaurus, and provides a quick link to searching MSN or Encarta Online with your search term.

Access Projects in Word - Create and Share your new Projects in Entourage, but access the information and update them through the Projects pane in the Toolbox in Word.
Brand new AppleScript Dictionary - We have create a Brand new Applescript dictionary in Word 2004. It is much more scriptable then before.

Export your Escher Drawing as pictures - Spend alot of time editing a photo or creating the right looking drawing in Word, but don't know how to get it out? Just select all the objects and group them, then right click on the new grouped object and select "Save as Picture". Word supports exporting as 5 differnt image types.

We also fixed a ton of bugs in this version. Bullets and Numbering are much less agrovating to use for example. We have fixed that bug that cuased Word to use more then 10% of the CPU when sitting in the background. We now have Long Filename support (this includes Unicode characters).

Some of these features are availble in all the Office 2004 apps (like the Export as Picture, Accessing your Projects, New Applescript dictionaries for every App, the Scrapbook, and Compatibility Report).

[Spliff]

Originally posted by Spliff:
Over at ArsTechnica forums, a software test engineer from MacBU is talking about the changes and fixes they made to Office for Mac. He's even answering questions.

Here's another one of his posts:

PowerPoint has undergone a bunch of major changes with brand new transistions, themes, and Presenter View (Viewers see the slide, while you see a special view of the slide, including notes, a floating window containing the next slide, a clock, and thumbnails of the entire presentation). I will try and post up some info about each Office App.

Office 2004 documents should play very well with Office X (use the Compatibility Checker). We did a ton of work to each of the Office apps.

I forgot to mention one of the best new features I hope you never have to use. Macintosh Error Reporting. If an Office Application crashes, it will generate a Crash Report to be sent to Microsoft. You can view the report, nothing personal is being sent, only information that will help us track down what caused the crash. I urge you all to submit these crash reports. Win Office started doing this in durring the Office XP time frame, and it helped them nail down a ton of crashing bugs. Please, help us help you by submitting these crash reports.
-Gerald

:Originally posted by Pods:
I have an issue with Word 2004: the kerning seems to be different (tighter) than Word X, and I was wondering if you could say anything about that, and if it's linked to the change in the text rendering engine.

Ya, we know about this. There are two reasons why it is different. The first is the new line layout enginee we took from the Win Office team. The second is the fact that we use a different OS technology to draw our characters then we did in Office X.

Office X used QuickDraw to draw each character on screen. This is the same technology we used in Office 2001 as well.

The Problem with QuickDraw is that it is old. It was written back in the OS 8 days, and got ported to OS X to help developers speed up the process of getting their Apps to OS X. QuickDraw does not support the drawing of Unicode Characters.

For us to do Unicode in Office 2004, we had to switch to ATSUI. This is the Apple prefered method to draw characters on screen. (Big thanks to Apple on this one for all the help they gave us in making the transition)

Due to these reason, the kerning is going to be a bit different. We tried our best to get it back to how Office X had it, but we just couldn't get it all the way. Just differences in how the two drawing enginees operate.
-Gerald

When we added Unicode Support, we broke being able to work with EndNote. The only way to get working again is to remove Unicode Support, which won't happen. Therefore you must look to the EndNote people to update their software.
-Gerald

[RooneyX]

I just upgraded. I really like the notebook view. Word is quite a bit snappier, much more than the demo, and the dictionary and thesaurus is more refined.

Edit:

Dic and Thes might be refined but half the words I searched for aren't there. Can you believe 'moron' and 'roccoco' aren't there? Dictonary for five year olds.

[rytc]

I'll have to eat my words in regards to the CPU usage, on second look appears that they have.




The darker W is Word 2004, the lighter one v.X, neither have anything open and are hidden.

[Talk2Angus]

Originally posted by Colonel Panic:
its too early to say if it stopped sucking, and it definitely has more eye-candy, but i can say that:

1) things seems far more responsive (on a 1ghz 17 pbook). Office v.X got mighty sluggish at times, so far Office 2004 feels zippier with data entry, scrolling (keyboard scrolling in Excel is no longer brutally slow), etc. Entering and editing text in the Excel formula window is no longer a test in patience.

2)some new features are very useful. the new Word track changes bubbles come equipped with a Check/X Box to accept or reject changes. makes this loads faster, don't know if this is in the latest Windows office.

3)long file names are supported, finally. thank god.

all in all, seems like a real improvement so far. the devil is in the details with Office, though. one annoying new bug could change everything...

[Talk2Angus]

Originally posted by His Dudeness:
I bought the student and teacher edition at Compusa. What a deal. I saved myself a few hundred on that purchase. Just enough to get me that cable internet modem/wireless router...

There's no difference in the student/teacher edition. It's all in there except Virtual PC.

Actually, if you have no kids in school ands use it for business, S&T is not legal.

[Talk2Angus]

Originally posted by rytc:
I'll have to eat my words in regards to the CPU usage, on second look appears that they have.




The darker W is Word 2004, the lighter one v.X, neither have anything open and are hidden.

Yeah!!!!!!! At Last!!!

[ink]

Will the Professional version to be released this summer include Access?

[typoon]

Originally posted by ink:
Will the Professional version to be released this summer include Access?

NO. Access is never and will never come to the Mac. According to People at MS. I had someone from MS basically admit that Filemaker was superior to it.

[pliny]

And then of course there is the issue of keeping Access to Windows machines so that people keep using windows in order to use Access. Whether it's superior to Filemaker or not is besides the point of not porting to Mac.

The Word memory leak fix is good, it's about time.

P.S. There's an Office 2004 test drive available at mactopia.

[ink]

Originally posted by typoon:
NO. Access is never and will never come to the Mac. According to People at MS. I had someone from MS basically admit that Filemaker was superior to it.

Umm, yeah... Filemaker isn't even a circa-1980 fully-fledged relational database. Linking "files" together just doesn't count. The last version I used (5.5) could finally import from ODBC sources, but still couldn't interact with the rest of the computing world in an interactive manner. It might be great for Aunt Petunia's recipie collection, but it horribly unusable in an information system.

I'm going to pass on Office 2004; v.X works just fine, and there's nothing new to see there (from my perspective). Hell, they couldn't even include their new whiz-bang net meeting software.

[mbryda]

You may want to look at FM 7 - it looks like it finally grew up.

[ink]

Originally posted by mbryda:
You may want to look at FM 7 - it looks like it finally grew up.

Nope; While the FM7 Server can interact with ODBC to other backends, FM7 Pro still cannot "link tables" -- not to mention there is no support for stored procedures, views and other relational necessities. If you need to import some data via ODBC, or do a time-based data dump via the server, that's fine -- but if you need to interact with an enterprise application then you need something better.

Which is sad, because FM's interface is MUCH better than Access.

[itai195]

People use Access for enterprise applications?

[RooneyX]

Be nice if OSX's Ink allowed me to write handwritten notes into notebook layout the same way Tablet PC does. I don't mean the scribble or draw tool, that looks sucky. XP Tablet PC edition has an application especially for scribbling into that is lined like paper and all.